Rock on Beth.. welcome to the club!

Watch out for fist flying democrats...

Welcome aboard!

Don't you think it's a bit shallow to pick candidates on the basis of whether you dislike an insignificant portion of the opponent's supporters. You might as well blog for Kerry because Bush has a couple of bigots supporting him.

BTW, did you comment on the incident in Iowa where College Republicans disrupted a Kerry rally and assaulted Joan Jett? Did that incident prompt you to support Kerry at that time? Will you support Kerry the next time a group of freepers attack Kerry supporters?

PatriotBoy, please give me a newslink to that.
I am not a liberal, so I was leaning towards Bush anyway. Kerry has always appeared to be a 'holier than thou' Democrat, much like Al Gore (who I did NOT vote for). I don't appreciate the condescending attitude that many Democrats take towards a good chunk of the country.

This episode was merely the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

another positive effect of this incident is that mine and Matt's older brother has finally decided to register to vote.

Did a little research on Iowa - seems that Joan Jett supported Dean, not Kerry.

After much searching, I found one reference to a "shoving match" between Jett and Young Republicans. There was no mention as to who was shoving who, so I respectfully say to Patriot Boy (a misnomer?) that I am not impressed with his knowledge of any campaign and is simply grasping at straws.

Get ready for a lot more of it Beth.

When vets start returning from Iraq and realize that little pussy boys like Matt Margolis didn't have the balls to enlist themselves, there will definitely be hell to pay.

You have no idea what's going to come down on you in a few years.

Hmmmm. RFD, yeah, she does. She's married to retired combat veteran. You should go visit my place. Her father-in-law is a 7 Purple Heart combat veteran. Her father was a WWII vet. She's walked the home front walk, so, I think she can talk the talk.

Spare me the Chickenhawk meme - besides being dumb in and of itself, it just doesn't fly in this household. Y'know dude, leaving a bogus email address is just as chickenshit in it's way as not enlisting, ain't it? Shoot bro, you could establish a yahoo mail account for free if you don't want to be traceable. But no, you, in you oh-so-classy way, just used it as a cowardly way to sneak in a 'fuck you'.

Here's one in public for ya, chickenshit: Fuck You. Fuck the horse you rode in on. Fuck the dog that followed the horse you rode in on. Fuck the fleas on the dog that followed the horse you rode in on.

See? If you're going to be childish, it's much more fun to do so in the open. It's liberating. But a rock-tosser like yourself wouldn't understand that. You sound like the kind of guy who hangs in the second or third row of a riot, tossing the bottles and rocks, wearing a mask - but sure to keep people between you and the police, so that you can later tell your children you were there, but not really taking a public stand, and exposing yourself.

If you won't stand up for what you believe, well, gee, that makes you a coward.

And the only thing the vets are going to do around here is come to ogle my gun collection, tell war stories, and drink alcohol and coffee.

Grow up and develop some pride in your position - if your cowardly way represents true rank-and-file democrats, the party is in sad shape.

RFD, adopt a better line of attack than the old chicken hawk argument. It is ironic that we have a group of hawks (bush, cheney, DeLay) who pussed out when our country needed them in the late sixites, but I would prefer a debate centered on policy, not on who did or did not serve. We Democrats have plenty of good policy attacks against this adminstration, Bush's dropping national security poll numbers indicate he is not as politicaly strong as he once was.

Don't make a federal case out of this Margolis incident, please. He was NOT beaten up, Margolis says so him self. The Ultra left lawyers guild acutally asked the BPD to help protect Margolis and his buddies. Margolis isn't exactly the most civil guy in the world, check out the quote Patriot boy reproduced on his website.

No, he was not 'beaten up' - just a few scrapes and bruises - but he and his friends were assaulted and pushed to the ground.
What constitutes being beaten up in your mind?
If someone pushed me to the ground, I'd say I was beaten up, but then I'm 51 years old.

The fact is, Patriot Boy and many others think that the Margolis brothers and friends got what they deserved for exercising their right to free political speech.

The nitwit calling itself "rank and file democrat" (the name speaks for itself) has it backwards in typical liberal moonbat fashion.

As the vets return from Iraq and see that little pussy boys like "rank and file democrat" have been crapping all over them, there will be hell to pay.

It seems like he's/it's the one who has no idea what's going to come down on his /its head the next few years.

Hehehe, "rank and file".

I'm in touch with a rather large number of actual soldiers, sailors and airmen, and from what they say about your kind as opposed to my kind, you'd be well advised not to start counting your chicken until the eggs hatch.

You see, we soldiers (present and former) are extremely good at sorting bullshit from truth, and currently your side isn't batting much more than 0.001 when it comes to that.

But, by all means, DO arrange some of the "love"-ins against our troops that you treasonous Idiotarians got so rightfully infamous for 30-40 years ago. Just be sure to have your life insurance paid up before you go, because I rather think that you'll find the result quite different from what happened in Fuckface Kerry's day.

"Get ready for a lot more of it Beth."

Ah the threat. "We're gonna get you guys that we don't agree with!" How typical of the idiot left. You guys are such good democrats and free speech defenders. People you disagree with SHOULD be beaten don't you think? And Bush is such a Nazi right?

"When vets start returning from Iraq..."

You are aware that vets have been rotating in and out of Iraq for a good while now aren't you?

"...and realize that little pussy boys like Matt Margolis didn't have the balls to enlist themselves,"

Hmmmm. I'm an ex-Woman Marine, served from 82-86 active, 86-88 reserve, F4 Fire Control Radar tech. My brother served on Trident submarines for 6 years. Whether Margolis 'had the balls' to enlist or not is irrelevant to me. Its not how we measure patriotism in this country....or did you know that? We have a volunteer force and have had for a few decades now.

So tell me RFD did you serve? Please be specific. By what authority are you coming here and telling us what veterans are going to think about Mr. Margolis? You certainly don't speak for this veteran.

"...there will definitely be hell to pay."

Really now. Fill us ignorant old vets in on what's going to happen and what this 'hell to pay' is going to look like please.

"You have no idea what's going to come down on you in a few years."

Is that right. But you do? Please tell us what's going to 'come down on' SWWBO 'in a few years'. Since you apparently have a crystal ball and know what's going to 'come down' on her and all.

Idiot. You wouldn't know the uniform of our country if it was cut up and used to bind your wounds in a terrorist attack. You don't even have the guts to leave a valid e-mail. Get off mommy's computer before you get caught now.

The returning troops "get it," the importance of a democratic Iraq as the stimulus for a democratization of the ME as in the interests of the US, and as a bulwark against terrorism.

Beth: The fact is, Patriot Boy and many others think that the Margolis brothers and friends got what they deserved for exercising their right to free political speech.

I haven't said that. Indeed, I condemned the violence in my post at The American Street.

The point I was making at Jesus' General is that it is a bit disingenuous for Matt to play the martyr when he went to the rally fo the purpose of inciting people.

Patriot Boy, Reading your post on Jesus' General certainly implied to me that you felt like the guys got what they deserved.

If you didn't mean that, well, that's good.
Now, when all the Democrats on DU and other sites admit that there is no excuse for such violence, I'd be much more impressed.

Beth, you'd better add Matt Margolis to that list, "I felt robbed of the experience of really pounding a union worker."

M. Steele, based on your comments in the two links above, you condemn Mr Margolis for his putative actions more than you decry the subsequent violence. Since you know more about the incident than Mr Margolis, perhaps you could correct him on the circumstances (he believes he was attempding a pro-Bush rally), and then point out why the remarks he quotes of his opponents were not provocative.

I did enjoy the humour at your site "Jesus' General": rather Canadian but needs polishing, alot.

Cheers
JMH

Heinrichs,

Dirk Steele is a pseudonym. It took me a moment to understand that you were addressing me. I prefer patriotboy because I'm more well known by that name around the web.

You wrote: he believes he was attempting a pro-Bush rally

I think he knows that he was attempting to hold a pro-Bush mini-rally in the midst of a Kerry rally. Of course he might have not known this, but then we'd have to assume that he is stupid. I don't think that's the case.

Now, why would someone hold a pro-Bush mini-rally in the midst of a Kerry rally? Was Margolis looking to convince the one or two persuadables in the audience? Is he stupid enough to believe that more than a handfull of persuadables attend candidate rallies? Again I don't think he's that stupid.

The only credible reason I can see for holding a Bush mini-rally inside of Kerry rally is to incite the more excitable Kerry supporters into doing something stupid. Any other explanation smacks of dishonesty in my opinion.

BTW, how do you think a Kerry mini-rally would fare if it was conducted in the midst of a Bush rally. Do you think that some of the more excitable freepers would have reacted in the same way as the more excitable steel workers did?

I find it interesting that those who seem to cry "personal responsibility" the loudest are the same people who are buying into Matt's cries of martyrdom.

Calliope: You go girl!

Jane: Ditto.

Interesting to see some of the not-so-thinly veiled misogyny and fascism from our leftist friends.

I'm a veteran of our unfinished war of 13 years ago, and while I'm traditionally liberal, I will definitely be breaking from habit and voting for George W. Bush this year. Call me naive, but I actually believe all that stuff about "making the world a better place" - and now that Bush is actually doing it (unlike the hypocritical Democrats), I'm very pleased to support him.

Okay, so let's see. I had to go read the Margolis site to find out what happened to him. I daresay, since he was there he knows. His post clearly says that Mr. Bush was in town and he was going down to the site to show his support. I am assuming that the Kerry supporters were there to protest Mr. Bush's visit.

So, from what I am reading how did this turn around from being a visit by Mr. Bush, to a Kerry rally? And why is it then Matt Margolis who is inciting violence? It seems to me that ever since the 60's the "peaceniks" have cried out for peace and then tried to beat up those who they think oppose them.

You can't have it both ways. Either you are for free speech or against it. If you are for it - then those of opposing views are allowed to air them. Even if you don't like it, even if you think they are totally wrong. The liberals have been using these tactics for years and years to protest. They certainly scream "foul" loud enough if they are harrassed when they try to speak. They even cry "foul" when they aren't harrassed. Seems like they don't care for it when the tactic is turned on them!

M. 'Steele': I did err in misspelling a word in the quote you used, but the word I intended was "attending" vice "attempting". Fortunately, Mme Teresa has clarified that to which I was alluding. Perhaps you can provide a further explanation as to how someone attending a Bush rally adjacent to a Kerry rally is complicit in an assault on him by Kerry supporters. And since you believe that the left's philosophy does not condone political violence, you might correct Mr Margolis' account so as to show how he incited and then attacked the Kerry supporters.

Oh, and 'Heinrichs' is not a pseudonym; I am addressed as such by my friends and peers. Your use is impertinent and discourteous.

Cheers
JMH

PartiotBoy:

You know, I have tried to see things from your point of view, but I just can't get my head that far up my ass.

Better watch out, Mssr PatriotBoy - I'm senior (note to Capt H - I did *not* say superior...) to the good Mssr Heinrichs in a cosmic military schema, and *I* don't even call him by his last name!

People like "Rank and file," who hold the that vets resent civilians who haven't served, betray that they don't know any real vets.

People like "Rank and file" are only projecting the pettiness and condescension that they themselves would feel were they to be in the position that most of the Iraq vets are in. Pitiful.