June 11, 2008
Shockingly, Gun Owners Are People, Too
[Kat]
Since we're a military AND gun blog, I thought I'd actually post a little something about guns. Particularly, since that nasty four letter word *work* keeps getting in the way of finishing up Pvt Benson's story (amongst other issues), I'm going to go cheap. Hat tip Instapundit
Have you heard this joke? A professor goes to the NRA headquarters...
PROFESSOR MEETS GUN: Part Three
Quiet, corporate, neat and friendly, full of ordinary Americans of all races, the NRA is masculine in feel but has plenty of women about. Cameras are everywhere, of course, and some of the staff eye me a little warily, but basically there’s an open feel to the place. It’s not creepy.
It's not creepy. Bwaahahahahaaha.
Really, I admire her for going outside of her comfort zone. Seriously, though, you should read the other lead up posts to get the real feel for this situation.
Professor Meets Gun
Professor Meets Gun: Part II
Just to wash that out of your mind and go to the other end of the spectrum, the second story I've seen this week about openly carrying a gun.
Then one evening he stumbled across a site that urged gun owners to do something revolutionary: Carry your gun openly for the world to see as you go about your business.
In many states there's no law against that.
Jensen thought about it and decided to give it a try. A couple of days later, his gun was visible, dangling from a black holster strapped around his hip as he walked into a Costco. His heart raced as he ordered a Polish dog at the counter. No one called the police. No one stopped him.
Though, later, he was lectured by someone at a restaurant for exposing children to the horrors of fully taking advantage of the Second Amendment. Still, the "people with guns are crazy"...
"I love this," he said. "I want people to be aware that crazy people are not the only ones with guns. Normal people carry them."
As I noted yesterday, violent crimes are down.
And, now for the real killer:
FDA Expands Tomato Warning Nationwide
That's right. Tomatoes are so dangerous, you can't find them anywhere except at a little huckster stand on the side of the road here and there.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
As Castle Argghhh! LLC, is selling in the Leavenworth Farmer's Market (aka, little stand) who you calling huckster, kiddo?
by
John of Argghhh! on June 11, 2008 6:49 AM
Remember the good old days, when we just had to worry about salmonella in bags of spinach? LOL
by fdcol63 on June 11, 2008 7:16 AM
Take it from one who may have been taken down by the tomato salmonella deal.... you do NOT want to get this illness. My case can't be proved at this point, but judging by the way I've been feeling for nearly a week, and what I had to eat just prior to getting sick, I'm pretty sure I am a statistic. It's been almost a week, and I am still bothered by headaches and nausea from the dehydration.
by AFSister on June 11, 2008 11:45 AM
Well, huck, if the bushel fits.. ;)
by kat-missouri on June 11, 2008 2:19 PM
Now you're conflating how I treat my friends with SWWBO's business practices...
by
John of Argghhh! on June 11, 2008 3:30 PM
But all tomatoes should be washed before eating, officials advised.
Uhhhh -- just why would you *not* wash something -- other than ice cream -- before you ate it?
by
BillT on June 11, 2008 4:05 PM
Friends? Who said friends?
by kat-missouri on June 11, 2008 4:31 PM
I don't wash Kielbasa before cooking it. I just take it out of the plastic wrapper it comes in at the store, boil it, and then make a sandwich out of it. Why would I wash Kielbasa(which, next to cheetos, is the food of the gods)? I don't wash bread either. No wonder you're so thin, Chief.
I dunno, John, I think I got a fair deal out of when I visited. I got a tour, a dozen history lessons, and some basic instruction in marksmanship. That sounds about right for a trip to say, DC, for the same things. (oh, and on the marksmanship thing, you think I should try shooting lefty? Might speed things up.)
by ry on June 12, 2008 12:31 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
May 18, 2008
A new acquisition for the Arsenal of Argghhh!
A Dreyse M1907 semi-auto in 7.65mm Auto (.32ACP). Used as a limited-standard sidearm by the Germans in WWI. A design by Hugo Schmeisser, it's an interesting approach.
Many caps will be busted this afternoon. More on that, and the pistol, later.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Hmmm.... Noll lists S.B. as Seebataillon in his book on Imperial regimentals. Nice piece, if ugly in the 'Jeep pick-up' way...
heh
by Neffi on May 18, 2008 2:25 PM
So imagine, you're a lowly leutnant, and waiting to get issued a pistol. As the line slowly moves forward, other leutnants return past you with Lugers and Broomhandle Mausers. When you finally get to the head of the line, the quartermaster hands you a Dreyse. It's going to take more than one beer to get over that disappointment, I do believe.
Pat
by Pat on May 18, 2008 4:22 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
February 10, 2008
Rednecks of Argghhh! - and a vote bleg.
This post has been pulled from the archives... not just because it's Sunday and I'm lazy (well, I got other stuff to do) but because Yu-ain Gonnano pricked me a bit (whether that was his intent or not). Oddly enough - this post first ran on Feb 12, 2006, almost exactly two years ago.
Yu-ain said:
Oh, and by the way. I just hafta share (this is a gun-ish blog of sorts):
The LG and I just completed the Safety Course needed to obtain our state's Handgun Carry Permit.
And while I've only been to the pistol range twice before, I've got to say my groups looked pretty dang good. From all the targets I could see, only one person shot better than me.
But what really made me proud was the LG, who had never shot a gun before came in 3rd. If it hadn't been for two fliers she would have beaten me.
The instructor looked at her, then at me and asked me if I played poker. I told him I played a little. He looked straight at me and said "Don't Cheat".
Heh!
Heh, indeed. SWWBO and I can shoot, too. See below.
********************************************************************
As SWWBO noted in her post yesterday, it was a very Red State day at Argghhh! Buying large animal supplies, taking care of the horses, late breakfast at Waffle House, 400 rounds downrange in the afternoon. And of course it was a Castle Argghhh! Range Day, with two WWII vets providing the fun.
SWWBO is getting more famous among gun bloggers (hey, she's getting *linked* and I'm not!) than Castle Argghhh! Why is that? She's getting dangerous with a pistol. And by dangerous, I mean to the intended target, not random locations generally downrange, either. Just take a look here.
That's three magazines, 45 rounds. No misses. Not bad for her first day shooting a semi-auto. And this isn't her only target, she put over 150 rounds downrange yesterday.
It was a typical day for a beginner - first round was a 10x. After that, we had the usual issues with grip, anticipating recoil, closing the eyes, etc. Rather than get all anal about technique, etc - I just let her blaze away downrange, keeping the occasional eye on things when they got bad (grip problems, especially) but mostly just let her get comfortable with the whole concept of shooting a pistol. We can drag out the Right and Left handed Castle Shooter Analysis Targets on a later trip, and start working on the pathologies. For all that - I must note - every round she sent downrange - hit her target. No misses, which I think says a lot about the pistol *and* the shooter. She tried both the Castle Nazi-marked Radom VIS-35 pistol and the Inglis Hi-Power. Although the VIS-35 probably fit her hand better, she likes the Inglis better - as that target above shows.
We went shooting at Total Range, L.L.C, in St Joseph, Missouri - a place we were introduced to courtesy of KCSteve who invited me to a Christmas party held there by members of MissouriCarry.com. At $20 per person per year, we bought memberships. Very nice place. We don't recommend it to you, however. Then you'd go buy memberships and start taking up range space and we might have to wait to get a shooting stall. Nothing to see here, move along.
The Armorer was pleased with his performance yesterday. I only put one magazine through the Inglis, at 5 yards, with this result. Mostly making sure the Inglis was in good shape, so that problems in shooting would be SWWBO-related, not weapon-related. Easier to fix when you can isolate the variables, eh? Our Product of Canada was in fine shape, only suffering from his user's problems, not those of his maker or bad storage.
I then shifted over to the Nazi-marked Polish Radom VIS-35 pistol. Also a 9mm like the Inglis. Three magazines (24 rounds) through that, again at 5 yards.
This is the first time I've shot the VIS-35. I'll spare you the target by target details, but after I was comfortable with it, I sent the carrier downrange to 20 yards. [I'll note at this point while I did cherry-pick the targets to post here, they were *all* like this] The head shots in the following picture are at 20 yards.
Not being happy with the leftward drift (combination of my glasses and how the downrange and uprange light interacted with target and sights), I pulled the target in to 10 yards and put a box of 50 through the Vis. You can see that in the pic above - or better yet - in this pic.
The Armorer *really* likes the VIS-35. A lot. That's 50 rounds in that target - no flyers, no misses. I really really really like that pistol. I need to find some more magazines.
Note to goblins - just remember - if you *do* get past me, SWWBO's right behind me, turning your liver into pate'. You should take the offer of "Turn around and leave" when it's offered. It will only be offered once.
All in all, a good Red State kind of day.
Which is why we think you should vote for us in the Best Master Gunnies competition! Early and often! <===Click that link! Once a day, every day! From home *and* work! At Internet Cafes! We think The BMG Trophy would look good on an Arsenal Bookshelf... but the only way *that's* gonna happen is if I steal it - unless you guys get really busy and start doing what Bill's been doing- borrowing other people's computers... of course, that would be wrong.
BTW - the bleg didn't work. I wasn't even *close*. 8^ )
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Nice shooting... I always did like the ergonomics of the Radom. I shot one for years, and then traded it for a nickled M1911A1 in .38 Super- THAT was a sweet shooter, too. And a good deal- I sold it for three times what I payed for the Radom.
by Neffi on February 12, 2006 2:00 PM
She's probably much cuter than you are.......
.......Mr. C.
Imagine how she'll shoot once she's got 10 or 12 range trips in!
by
Mr. Completely on February 12, 2006 4:52 PM
Mr. C - no doubt, no doubt, on all counts. That's why we got the memberships!
by
John of Argghhh! on February 12, 2006 4:58 PM
Nice shooting, now why don't you give a few lessons to V.P. Dick Cheney, he could use them. Have you heard about the Elmer Fudd hunting incident?
Raymond B
www.voteswagon.com
by
Raymond B on February 12, 2006 7:40 PM
Indeed, Raymond, I have. I linked in the H&I post.
As for the Cheney incident, all I can tell from the news thus far is that one of the two were out of position.
Regardless, it is the responsibility of the guy pulling the trigger to ensure his line of fire is clear.
I'm sure we'll hear more about this - but the bottom line is - someone didn't pay attention to the rules.
That's why there are rules.
by
John of Argghhh! on February 12, 2006 7:44 PM
OH yes, the lib cartoonists are gonna have a field day with this, you dambetcha! I can *hardly* wait...
by Neffi on February 12, 2006 7:56 PM
Heh. I suspect a few conservative cartoonists are going to get in on it. I'm betting Muir... among others.
Mallard Fillmore, perhaps?
by
John of Argghhh! on February 12, 2006 8:18 PM
Oh sure John. Put a dozen or so rounds into the head over 5 yards away, and then complain about it. Geez, not only do we have to put up with collection envy but now accuracy envy too? Youse a cold bastid(or not, it doesn't seem that ambient temperature affects you much).
by ry on February 12, 2006 9:57 PM
C'mon, Ry. Quit whining. That's not combat shooting, that's warm dry and comfy shooting, with no messiness... like a moving target.
If I could shoot like that in a shoot-house or combat range... then I'd be impressed with my shooting.
by
John of Argghhh! on February 12, 2006 10:20 PM
" A good Red State day", what a perfect description! I took my brother out for a similar day during his weekend visit to my red state.
A Utah red state day
by
Nate on February 12, 2006 10:58 PM
Yea - the Veeps little shooting incident is already being called a 'fiasco' in the teaser for the local news ... sheesh. Just another reason why I don't watch local news. If the Olympics weren't on, I wouldn't have been watching TV at all!
by
Barb on February 13, 2006 12:32 AM
Heh....and here I thought I'd get an invite, being so close and all.
I feel unloved. ;)
by
kat-missouri on February 13, 2006 2:10 AM
Perhaps SWWBO didn't want to lose her semi-auto virginity in front of witnesses, eh?
We did buy memberships - so one *may* infer from that we'll go again.
It was also a scouting trip for a probable Castle Muster venue.
by
John of Argghhh! on February 13, 2006 6:04 AM
SWWBO isn't into pistol range voyuerism?
I admit I have gun envy.
I thought that might be the case. Scouting out the territory. I will have to make sure I have my ear plugs and safety glasses in my shooting bag and ready to go at a moments notice. Though, last time I was at the range, I used up a good bit of my ammo. Need to restock.
Hey, speaking of weapons, my Bersa is the older model and the wooden grips and screws are in bad shape. I've looked on the net and found some places, but I was wondering if you knew of anyplace locally that would custom fit some grips?
I couldn't find any new ones for the model. Everything I found was for the new Bersa .380 which has different notches for the releases and safety than my model. I was hoping to not have to send the thing away or pay $300 for grips (in which case, I'd just go buy a new pistol). 'Preciate the help.
by
kat-missouri on February 13, 2006 3:19 PM
I humbly suggest that SWWBO be coached to place her weak side thumb on top of her fingers, "cupping" the grip on the weak side of the pistol, not grasping over her right wrist.
Many "first time" auto shooters get away with the grip employed in the photo, but I've seen many eventually get their thumbs run over by the slide.
by
TmjUtah on February 10, 2008 1:32 PM
Certrainly, TM - remembering this post is two years old... and I got lots of email grief for that pic...
by
John of Argghhh! on February 10, 2008 6:01 PM
Sorry about the prickage. It wasn't intentional. I was just trying to insulate myself from being completely off-topic for hijacking a thread just so I could brag on the LG.
[Hey, it got me to post gunnish stuff - it's all good! -the Armorer]
by Yu-Ain Gonnano on February 11, 2008 11:08 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Feb 10, 2008
�
She Who Will Be Obeyed! links with:
I love Saturdays like this
October 19, 2007
Yanno, when I travel...
I miss my babies.
Like this Webley .25 auto, captured from a German in Normandy, who captured it from a Brit Royal Marine at Dieppe.
I miss SWWBO and the critters too, mind you.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Well if you can't bring that thing with you ... be sure to have a sharpened pencil.
It will make a bigger hole if you poke someone with it.
by
jim b on October 19, 2007 5:17 PM
Now Jim, relax and have a Scoresby... 6.35mm is a handy round, one never knows when one might need to fend off a rabid hamster.
Or mayhaps it's the military story behind the Webby that John likes, eh? He has a good story- got the provenance John? Inquiring minds etc etc
by Neffi on October 19, 2007 6:22 PM
A pistol's just something you use to get yourself a real weapon anyway.
"Psssst -- Yuri! Wanna trade?"
by
BillT on October 19, 2007 6:36 PM
The .25ACP is for when your cat is dying from a painful disease, and you'd rather not pay the Vet $250 to do the deed.
For humans? Well, I knew a guy who was shot by one, once, and didn't realize until the next morning. (Popped funny-looking pimple on arm and bullet popped out.)
If that's all ya got, try for the tear duct.
Oh yeah, cool history on that piece.
by
Justthisguy on October 20, 2007 12:58 AM
I collect for the history, not the quality, so to speak.
So yes, the story appeals.
As for provenance, I've only the word of the veteran, who sold me the pistols because no one in his family cared about things like that.
There were two, this one and a Steyr pistol, and they were the only weapons he had. I'm sure he was a vet, and his story hung together well, so I'm inclined to believe it in broad outline.
But can I assert so? Nope.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 20, 2007 8:52 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 7, 2007
"Khyber" Rifles and Pistols.
The Afghans are long known for their "home workshop" firearms production, where they make excellent copies of commercially-made weapons that have fallen into tribal hands over the years - especially British weapons.
They are usually visually correct dimensionally (though the parts may not interchange with the original weapon copied), they usually have little signs on them that cause experienced collectors of the originals look twice - such as markings in the wrong places, markings that have reversed letters in them, or, in the base of barrel proofs - markings in the wrong order, or a mix of markings from different arsenals, etc.
There's enough of them that they're a collecting niche in and of themselves, and Joe, the recently-returned Man in the 'Stan sent home what is probably a Khyber pistol.
John Spangler, who is a reader and frequent commenter in this space (he likes to play the Whatziss') is also a collector who takes his passion so seriously that he makes a living at it (always good to go spend money with John, just click here). He also runs a question and answer board on his website.
In March of last year he got this question:
# 11744 - Afghanistan Khyber Pass "Enfield" Pepperbox Copy
3/4/2006
Carlisle, PA
Enfield - .36 - 4'' - Rusty - THERE IS NO SERIAL NUMBER ON THE WEAPON. - The weapon appears to be a ''pepperbox'' style percussion cap pistol with six barrels. The caliber appears to .36 Cal. On the left side of the weapon is a crown with VR underneath the crown. Under VR is Enfield and the date 1857. The weapon was purchased in Afghanistan in the Spring 2005. I have not been able to find out any information on Enfield manufacturing a ''pepperbox'' style percussion pistol. Any information about this weapon is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Answer:
Sir- As with many of the guns found in Afghanistan purported to be antiques, they are not always what they seem. I am not aware of Enfield making any pistols like that ever. Khyber pass guns will be found with all sorts of impossible combinations of markings. This is sort of similar to someone with a rusty 1983 Chevrolet, but putting Model T Ford, or Cadillac Escalade trim on it and hoping someone will buy it. John Spangler
Why is this of interest? Well, Joe and Jeff aren't the only Afghan hounds who hang out around here. I got this email late last week. And it concerns *exactly* the same pistol type in the question above - this one with a different date on it.
Armourer-san: Khyber Garage Camel Cavalry Speciall, sent back during last year's trip to Bagram. Pretty much the same paperwork experience as your ISAF correspondent, though I understand the rigmarole has increased here (I'm back in Bagram for a spell). Same collection of vendors at the bazaar - the guy who sold me the Beast remembers me and is trying to sell me a companion piece.
No last names or email addresses please! - my people think I play piano in a Kabul cathouse and my Employer frowns upon this type of discourse.
So, lets take a look at this thing.
Yep, that's a pepperbox pistol all right. Pretty massive one, too. Kewl.
Here's a look at it from the side. Pretty classic pepperbox styling, but there were two things that caught my attention right away. We'll come back to those.
Let's toss the markings up here.
The two visual cues that caused my warning light to start flashing was the relative crudity of workmanship - one thing the Armourers at Enfield Lock were was meticulous, with great attention to detail and generally high-quality workmanship. The two things that attracted my attention was the lack of crispness to the lines of the barrels, and the pretty flimsy looking trigger guard. But, hey, the trigger-guard might be a replacement, and the barrels have a lot of holster wear, which tends to smooth edges. But the workmanship and tool marks on the receiver are pretty suspect, too. I've not had a chance to dig out my inspector's mark reference - but *each* of those barrels should have proofs on 'em. And as near as I can tell, they don't. One reason they wouldn't is because some of those barrels aren't bored true, they're off-center. Which means they wouldn't pass an Enfield inspection, much less proofing.
But to me it's still a collectable piece, simply because of the whole story surrounding Afghanistan.
Update: Dug out the reference, The Broad Arrow, by Ian Skennerton, and the ownership mark, the crown - is actually a Georgian crown with a Victorian cypher. There were two styles of crown, one for kings and the other for queens. The orb in the crown is what points quickly to a Georgian crown, and the number of balls on the top layer of the crown points to the George III version of the Kings Crown. The V.R. matches the date, but the crown actually pre-dates the production of percussion weapons in British service. The E-crown-1 inspection mark should actually be Crown-E-1 where the Crown E represents Enfield, and the number represents an inspector (most that I have seen are two-digit, btw, which just means... that's what I've seen). If it were a weapon built under George III, but reworked under Victoria, the markings would reflect that - I have several such weapons in the collection, that jump eras between Victoria, Edward VII, Georges IV and V and Elizabeth. Oddly enough, no William IV's!
In the pics provided, there are no proofs anywhere, and the Brits were positively tenacious about proof-marks, with lots of 'em.
All that taken together - argues for forgery. But like I said, that doesn't deter me, as long as I'm not paying "original" prices!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
John,
That was a terrific read and truly fun. We looked at the pics and spotted the off center bore right away, before we read the 'rest of the story.'
Once again, a reason to read yer blog daily.
Thanks again.
by Cricket on October 7, 2007 2:21 PM
Thanks for the plug!
Readers interested in a good story on how these weapons are made should check out http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/darra.htm
and we have another section with some detailed tips for sorting originals from repros at http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/afghanold.htm BEFORE they spend their good money. These are all nice souvenirs, but not necessarily good investments.
by John S. on October 7, 2007 6:37 PM
I have a great-great-great uncle. You might have heard of him. His name was Jonathan Browning. He was a gunsmith...
by Cricket on October 8, 2007 8:37 AM
Good one, Cricket! You win the comment thread. Snork!
(JoA writes snerk, I thought up snork all by my self before I saw other people using it.)
by
Justthisguy on October 9, 2007 11:50 PM
Well this just makes me want to travel to the Hindu Kush even more!!!!
by MR T's Haircut on October 11, 2007 4:18 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
September 7, 2007
Our man in the 'Stan finally bit on something in the bazaar...
The Enfield M1880 pistol (or a Khyber-copy). I told him if he finds another, gettit!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Very cool, but how does one bring it back home without getting into all sorts of trouble?
Ok, don't answer that since then the way won't work, but a general idea would be nice for a civi.
by
Andrew on September 7, 2007 4:54 PM
Andrew - pre-1898 manufactured weapons may be imported without restriction. This doesn't mean you won't run into some under-educated Customs Agent, but there is no legal restriction on the importation of those weapons. That's an M1880 Enfield MkII, so it's okay.
It helps, if you want to do that, to have made a copy of the relevant federal laws and include a copy with the weapon, and carry a copy yourself.
But in fact, Joe could mail that to himself.
by
John of Argghhh! on September 7, 2007 5:03 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
April 14, 2007
As penance for the post on the Department of Peace...
...the Armorer of Argghhh! proudly presents... Gun Pr0n!
An expose of the fiddly bits of the Castle's Vulcan Arms V10-45, seen earlier this week, here.
Here he is, field stripped to his basics.
Slighty higher-res version here (that better, Brab?)
Looking deep into his guts, a look at the fiddly bits of the lower receiver.
The upper receiver and bolt assembly. There is a nylon buffer there, to keep the bolt from slapping the rear of the receiver.
Really, in concept, there is little to distinguish this design from the M3 grease gun, the major differences being the Grease Gun is tubular, and the V10's bolt wraps about the barrel at the breech (shown open here), saving overall length in the same manner the Uzi does.
But it's a bit clunky for a pistol. Vulcan does make a carbine version, but that didn't interest me. I'd get a 9mm version for SWWBO, except she thinks they're ugly, and wants something prettier.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Interesting anecdote for you:
Back in the early 80s the Sweety worked in the office at RPB where they made the Mac10s etc. There was a fink in the office. Everyone knew he was a fink, but thought that he was a management fink. He turned out to be a Government, that is, BATF fink.
It seems there was some angryness about the thing firing from an open bolt and consequent easy conversion, but the thing which really bothered the Feds was that they thought too many of the pieces were being sold to a shady distributor in (you guessed it right) Southern Florid
by
Justthisguy on April 14, 2007 11:02 PM
Sorry, forgot to allow for the truncation bug.
Here's the rest: a.
.
.
by
Justthisguy on April 14, 2007 11:06 PM
No worries, John. And I agree with the lady of the house - it's not pretty. But it would get the job done, fer sure.
by
Barb on April 15, 2007 11:01 AM
i think it is a thing of supreme elegance and beauty.
by MajMike on April 16, 2007 8:24 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
April 12, 2007
Did someone say .45?
Someone did, yesterday, as we were bloviating about guns (in the comments of this post).
The Arsenal of Argghhh!'s V10-45.
It's a clumsy sucker, but the punk with the 9mm will run out before I do.
Hi(er)-res, if you want it. If you don't want it - don't click it. Bandwidth ain't free!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
ooh.
mikey likes it!
by MajMike on April 12, 2007 12:46 PM
Since when is 500 pixels high-res? Looks pretty small at 1280 x 1024.
*snerk*
But I bet it's FUN to shoot :-)
by
Barb on April 12, 2007 1:08 PM
When I'm running through my pic bandwidth on the 7th of the month is when that got to be hi-res!
by
John of Argghhh! on April 12, 2007 1:49 PM
On the 7th?! Yowch! Okay, ya gotta right. But call it mid-res ;-)
by
Barb on April 12, 2007 1:59 PM
Niiiiiiiiice......I want one!!!
by sandman6actual on April 12, 2007 2:07 PM
Do you know how many people I would happily disembowel to get my hands on that gun?
OK, so most of my prefered disembowling targets are on Capitol Hill, but still, I'd be growling when I disemboweled them.
by
Raging_Dave on April 13, 2007 3:17 PM
What, no scope?
by
BillT on April 13, 2007 9:16 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
February 6, 2007
Heh. It would appear the Armorer has helper-gnomes in the Beehive state...
Sanger is getting his revenge on me with his Whatzis number two. I've got that puppy id'd at the T-number, but he's holding out the M-number and a specific aircraft type that he admits he can't find on the 'net either. Sheesh. Dude gets grumpy when he loses a few and is writing a thesis.
However, Sanger, has an interesting guess for *my* Whatzis...
Bottom side of the top part of a lugar?
Heh. I dunno, I don't think I wanna contemplate too hard what
the bottom side of the top part of a lugar looks like. Some things only the missus should know, eh?
Then there's my little helper bee. Here I was gonna post a new pic today that would help *some* anyway, and he goes along and gives you all the google-fodder you could possibly use.
Sigh. [shakes head]
Rod, I believe, was the first (well, no, John was the first, with his oblique guess for me which didn't thus spoil the thing too quickly), Rod was the first to put it into words - Pedersen Device.
Better known, actually, as the US Automatic Pistol, Caliber .30, Model of 1918.
Yep. Pistol. All part of the deception plan to hide what we were doing from the Germans. Made easier by the fact that it shoots a .30 caliber pistol cartridge, virtually identical to the French .30 Longue, IIRC.
The "automatic pistol" hiding in the body of a bolt-action rifle was the brainchild of John Pedersen, of Remington Arms. Development started before the US entered the war and was a private venture on the part of Remington. Having been following the war, Mr. Pedersen was struck by the inability for troops to effectively fire on the run while crossing "No Mans Land". He started down the path that would lead to such weapons as the Browning Automatic Rifle and Chauchat machine gun. The difference is Pedersen figured that he wasn't going to be able to sell the Army on a whole new rifle design, so he decided to develop a drop-in adaptor that would convert the existing rifle - and at the same time preserve it's hi-powered, long range capabilities.
This led to his gizmo, which replaced the bolt of the standard Springfield with a long bit of kit consisting of a complete firing mechanism and a small "barrel" for the small round. In effect, the "device" was essentially a complete blow-back pistol minus a receiver/grip using the short "barrel" of the device to fit into the longer chamber of the M1903 Springfield. The mechanism was fed by a long 40-round magazine sticking out of the rifle to the top right, and could be reloaded by inserting a new magazine. New sights were provided at the rear of the device. The system did require one modification to the rifle however, a hole had to be cut in the side of the bolt area to allow the ejection of spent rounds. You may have seen some of those - M1903's with an elongated oval cut out of the side rail. We have one in the Arsenal, though it's one of the ones that was reworked during WWII with a regular scant stock and green parkerizing.
In early 1917 the Pedersen device was tested and ready for production. Pedersen took his weapon to show the Army. He first fired several rounds from what looked to be a standard M1903. Then he removed the bolt, inserted his pistol, and fired several magazines at a very high rate of fire. The officers were astounded at the relative simplicity and performance, and immediately clamped a SECRET label on the whole thing. As I noted, snooker the Germans, the Ordnance Department named it The US Automatic Pistol, Caliber .30, Model of 1918. Plans were initiated to start production of modified Springfields, listed as the US Rifle, Cal. .30, Model of M1903, Mark I. The intent was to have 500,000 ready for the 1919 Spring Offensive. The use of the Pedersen Device in the 1919 Spring offensive was to be in conjunction with the full combat introduction of the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR). Pedersen's gizmo was also designed to to fit the US Rifle, Model of 1917 (the American Enfield - which was actually used in greater numbers than the Springfield), and the US Rifle, Model of 1916 ( The Remington Mosin Nagant). Neither of those were ever put into production, although samples of both were made.
With the end of the war, production slowed, though it continued to 1920. Technology overtook the Pedersen device (which we'd know a lot more about had the war continued to 1919) and the BAR and Garand in tandem rendered the Pedersen obsolete. After they were declared surplus, they were all heaped in a large pile... and burned. Most of the Pedersen's in private hands are survivors of the fire - and show varying shades of fire damage. Estimates range up and down, but the current best guess is there are about 250 or so survivors in museums and private hands.
The Armorer got to see one this last weekend at the Fort Leavenworth Militaria Show. It is owned by a buddy of the Armorer, and the Armorer is going to get to... *shoot* it. Neener Neener Neener! My buddy has over 700 rounds of ammo. No, we're not going to shoot all of that. We'll shoot a hundred or so, and reload. Heck the ammo's valuable to collectors.
More, and better, pictures will come at a later date.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
You know, I though something looked wrong with that...Luger
And... just yuch! Not an image I wanted...
by
SangerM on February 6, 2007 11:21 AM
Gad, I thought this would generate more comment.
At least some drooling!
by
John of Argghhh! on February 6, 2007 7:20 PM
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!! I must hate you! I've wanted to play with one of these for years. The closest I've come is to find a magazine pouch in the local Army surplus store nearly twenty years ago. I remember that I was going to donate it to the State Military Museum, but don't remember if I did. Have to check once I'm demobbed........
by Dennis on February 7, 2007 7:25 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
May 12, 2006
In the midst of too much to do...
...while suffering the dammed curse 'o the Sassenach, I find this gem in my email box.
Dateline 1979, Germany. A Troop, 3/7 Cavalry is on maneuvers at the military training site at Hohenfels... a handsome and studly young tank commander removes the shoulder holster containing his Army .45 and hangs it from the turret roof near the loader's station. It'll be safe there whilst negotiating the cross-country target acquisition course!
Now imagine if you will, gentle reader, the pendulum effect of a heavy pistol suspended by a leather strap from the turret of a 52 ton M60A1 tank- when in the course of the aforementioned exercise the tank is traversing rough terrain and our hero is desperately manipulating the commander's override turret control to engage close range targets... all in a days work for the Cav! But somewhere along the line physics and gravity overcome the precarious hold of the leather holster strap on it's mounting and the pistol falls!... and becomes intimately engaged with the gear mechanism which rotates the turret... the 16 ton turret... which requires a powerful motor to drive said gear... which consumes and ejects a .45 pistol with all the disdain of yer cousin Bubba spitting a sunflower seed.
Sheesh... this cost me $54, the Gummint cost for the WWII Remington Rand-made .45. A chunk of money for me at the time; I was an E-5 and making 450 monthly- and then the bastids wouldn't let me keep it! I wanted it for a conversation piece, ya know- like, "Hey looky what some dumbshirt did to this here gun thingy!!!" but the bean-counting sumbirtches insisted it was still US Property even after they stripped the dinero from my miserable stipend.
The M16 I crushed two months later cost me $174 and they wouldn't let me keep that, either. Bastids.
Heh. Just in case you're interested in what they retail for now... admittedly in somewhat better condition.
You may amuse yourselves determining *who* might have provided this tale of woe...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Lucky thing it ate the 'empty' end of the gun. Not that it would have slowed it down if the grip had gotten between the gears, just that it would have been more... noticeable.
by KCSteve on May 12, 2006 3:47 PM
Reminds me of an M-16A1 that got leaned against the turret of an M109 Howitzer. You wouldn't think the barrel could bend 90 degrees like that.... (No, it wasn't mine!)
by
Pogue on May 12, 2006 7:26 PM
One of the reasons the M16A2 etc has the thicker barrel was because of turret rings, loading ramps, and to put a little weight on the end of the rifle.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 12, 2006 8:30 PM
Well, considering how much crap you give Maj Mike about his firearm misshaps I'm betting pocket lint that it's him. ;)
by ry on May 12, 2006 9:05 PM
Damn, I do *not* need more pocket lint. Pay up, boyo.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 12, 2006 9:51 PM
It's a trick, the .45 is more than able to handle being a little looser, (it only helps functioning). I suspect the b'counters just needed a little more friday cash.
by Rod Thorsen on May 12, 2006 10:35 PM
I'm still wondering if someone's ever found that set of dogtags I left hanging on a tree at Hohenfels. LOL
by fdcol63 on May 14, 2006 10:00 PM
not I!
by
MajMike on May 15, 2006 9:17 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
January 30, 2006
Vaporware from the Armorer...
...just to annoy Ry. Something else that will appear. Whenever I finish it.
But hopefully this week. A wholly unverifiable, but interesting, war story.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
What, you expect me to be Donald Duck or something?
Exposes of the Fiddly Bits are interesting(heh, who ever thought you could learn how to disassemble a firearm on the internet?) and informative, but I'm still waiting for end of the series that's more history than armory.
by ry on January 30, 2006 7:51 AM
Translation from collitch kid tawk:
He wants to see more of the *Castle* Collection.
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 7:54 AM
I've been getting pinged about the history of ammo, too.
Problem is - this place consumes resources, and doesn't produce any of the variety that would buy the time it takes to do those bits.
The longer I try to manage this place the greater understanding I have for people who write books in their spare time (vice the authors who are good/popular enough) that all they have to do is write.
If all I had to do was write... but, I don't think I can turn this thing into a paying proposition that I can stop doing that old day job thing.
by
John of Argghhh! on January 30, 2006 8:23 AM
And Ry - that bit of vaporware *will* be what you're after - more history than Armory. But remember - I generally eschew the weapons that were built and put into storage, so that they are all pretty and pristine. I want ones that have seen use.
It may be squandering Prodigal Son's Patrimony by not buying *Investment Quality* arms - but screw that, I want weapons with some history to 'em.
And these do. The background photo is a hint. One that I'm sure CAPT H can figure out.
Besides, I'm getting better with Photoshop. Note I used a relative term, not an absolute.
by
John of Argghhh! on January 30, 2006 8:29 AM
Captain H was at Dieppe?
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 10:35 AM
Holly Crap. How can you tell that those are Canadian troops and that that's Dieppe(damn Mountbatten)? Shiite, I don't wanna hear The Chief complain about his vision no more. Make him stop John.
by ry on January 30, 2006 10:46 AM
Heh. Ry, When yer as old as me, much less Bill, and had any interest in milhist (especially disasters) you'd recognize the photo.
Don't be too hard on Mountbatten. It's all easy when you look back at it - and the hard lessons learned at Dieppe were put to use in Normandy.
Still, expensive in terms of good troops, especially for the Canadians.
by
John of Argghhh! on January 30, 2006 10:59 AM
Dingblasted server ate my first comment...
Ry -
1. The architecture's Atlantic coastal French and the buildings are intact (no bombing or shelling--so not Dunkirk),
2. the Wermacht troops are too relaxed to be near an ongoing fight,
3. the POWs look too fresh to have been chased all over France for a month and they still have their tin hats.
Ergo, Dieppe.
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 11:29 AM
Heh. I got my AARP card--I can complain about my vision all I want. It used to was 20/15 about twenty years ago and now it's 20/23.
Drat. At this rate, I'm gonna have to get bifocals in another fifteen years or so...
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 11:54 AM
Wait till you go 20/250 and 20/400, and do IA stuff for a living ...
I am definitely not in that photo.
Cheers
JMH
by J.M. Heinrichs on January 30, 2006 1:27 PM
Hot Fudge Holy Moly it's bout danged time. The .45 is comin back. The M9 is on the way out.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20060127.aspx
Now if we can just get rid of that Poodle Shooter.
by jim b on January 30, 2006 2:09 PM
Jim - Never tried shooting poodles. Just out of curiosity, how far *will* an M-16 lob a Standard as opposed to a Toy?
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 3:20 PM
Well it's a matter of how old and large the standard is. A full sized average standard it kinda just tips over. (Visual of cow tipping here)
A toy is another matter. If it is battery powered, you get one distance. If it is an old fashioned cogs and wheels wind up one, it's another.
The average for a battery powered one is about three revolutions. (Visualize three tocas over tea kettle tumbles here) The old cog and wheels model will make an average of 7 tumbles iffen you hit a gear.
Jeez I gotta splain everything here.
by jim b on January 30, 2006 3:44 PM
Hmmm. Doesn't sound like you'd get much of anything out of it...
Didja ever try using a shih-tzu for something other than a bore cleaner?
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 3:55 PM
You gotta be shih-tzn me now. Everyone knows that the only thing a shih-tzu is good for is disturbing dust under a bed.
Unless of course you have them bronzed, then they will loosen up powder lead and copper, with the proper bore cleaner of course.
by jim b on January 30, 2006 3:59 PM
Who has the odds sheet on the "objects" in the Myrtle Hill Cemetery?
Might be the rumored Noble Brothers cannons but I'm betting on cast-iron coffins.
by homebru on January 30, 2006 5:07 PM
ROME, Ga. - University of Georgia archaeologists have been puzzling over finding an apparent manmade object buried in a historic Civil War cemetery.
Sign that writer up as a captioneer on AKO.
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 9:44 PM
"Don't be too hard on Mountbatten. It's all easy when you look back at it - and the hard lessons learned at Dieppe were put to use in Normandy."
Yeah, I've heard this before. But, if you send troops into an op where you know they're going to get creamed because somebody talked about it, and you know it's been leaked, aren't you failing them somehow?
The lessons could've been, and were, learned elsewhere. Nobody in the European theatre seems to have talked to the Marines and Army in the Pac Theatre who had lots of experience with Amphib Ops by that time. Dieppe was a waste of good troops for knowledge that was in hand elsewhere, in my totally amateur opinion.
Though Mountbatten does get props for greenlighting the Cockleshell missions, he's still on the hook for what he did to the Canucks at Dieppe.
(Christ, Bills vision is several orders of magnitude better than mine. This sucks. (whine) I don't want to see JMH's prescription(shudder--since that's what lays in my future)).
by ry on January 31, 2006 4:25 AM
Allright Ry, you win. Mountbatten was an incompetent asshole. Where was the IRA when they were needed?
by
John of Argghhh! on January 31, 2006 5:40 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
January 29, 2006
Gun Pr0n!
Having been nominated for Best Gun Pr0n (and you *can still* vote), it's time for something I haven't done in a while - Gun Pr0n! One reason I haven't is because doing these right takes a lot of time and I haven't had a lot of time lately, and I'm a slug and like to sleep. I know. A weakness to be sure. This one took 12 hours total out of my life this week.
So, you've met the Castle Luger, Georg. You can check out his story here. You can get a sense of his prowess in the hands of a mediocre shooter here.
The basics of the Luger story are simple, though there are *several* good books out there if you are into geek-level detail. This is a blog, we'll skip that for a precis...
The Luger is one of the most distinctive and widely-recognized pistols the world over. You can thank WWI, WWII, and war movies for that. Well, that, and perhaps because the Luger Navy Model of 1904 introduced the world to the 9mm Euroweenie pellet, as Kim du Toit is want to call that round. Regardless of what I or Kim think, however, it is the most common pistol and sub-machine gun round, and the Luger Navy Model of 1904 introduced it to the world. Georg Luger was the designer of that bullet, building on his design of the 7.65 Luger round, which he developed after recognizing the need to make shorter, yet reasonably powerful rounds if automatic pistols were going to get down to a useful size.
The impetus for the development of the Luger pistol gathered steam in the period of 1890-1900. The gunmakers in Europe and the US were angling to land large military orders as the 1st rank armies of Europe were looking to modernize, and the US Army had discovered weaknesses in it’s arms in the Spanish American War. In Germany it was DWM, Mauser, and Bergmann; in England Webley &Scott, to name some of the major players. US interest came on the heels of the success of the European efforts.
What most people I’ve talked to don't know is that the Luger has an sorta-American connection. Georg Luger, the primary engineer, collaborated with the Hugo Borchardt to develop the first Luger pistol, improving on Borchardt's initial design by removing the balance and handling-destroying rear overhang and replacing it with a recoil link and spring in the butt of the pistol, vastly improving the handling of the pistol.
Submitted to the Swiss Army trials of 1898, it was adopted by the Swiss in 1900 as the Ordnance Pistol 1900. A quick distinguishing characteristic of the Swiss pistol is a grip safety that you don’t find on the German pistols - as you can see on these examples. The OP 1900 was chambered for the bottle-necked 7.65mm (called .30 Luger by us 'Muricans), and was as finely crafted a pistol as anything mechanical or chocolate the Swiss have ever produced.
Lugers were produced in Germany by primarily Deutsche Waffen Und Munitionsfabriken (DWM, the builder of Georg the Castle Luger), as well as Simson, Krieghoff, the Erfurt Arsenal, and Mauser. Vickers in England made them for the Dutch, and, as previously mentioned, the Swiss produced them at their Bern Arsenal. No one knows how many were produced due to destruction of German records during WWII, but the guesstimate is better than 2.5 million. Damn things still cost a lot for all that production!
The Kriegsmarine (Navy) was the first German adopter, in 1904, and it is they who gave us the Luger chambered for the 9mm Parabellum round, and a 6 inch barrel. The German Army adopted the Luger as the Pistole Model of 1908 in (drum roll, please) 1908, with a 4 inch barrel. Usually abbreviated P08, this is the version most of us are familiar with, though there have been many other models (see those books for geeks I was talking about). DWM produced the pistol until 1930, when it was taken over by Mauser. The Luger remained the German Army's official sidearm until the adoption of the Walther P38 in 1938, with production continuing through 1943, and issue continued throughout the war and beyond, in East German service. Counting the German variations of the P08, there were, IIRC, about 35 different variations of the Luger produced, and it has been produced in specialty runs at least as late as the 1980s, and perhaps more recently than that – but we all know I’m weak on stuff less than 50 years old…
The other relatively famous version of the Luger you might be familiar with is the Model 1914, the long-barreled version, sometimes called the "Artillery Luger" which was fitted with a long barrel that had integral long range sights, and was often used in conjunction with a wooden shoulder-stock/holster that locked onto the grip. It was for this pistol, in Air Force use, that the 32 round snail drum magazine was developed, as a way to arm pilots when the "Knights of the Air" took to shooting at each other before they got their machine guns all figured out. That pistol uses standard P08 components less the barrel and sights - and in fact, all Lugers produced for the German army have their grips slotted for the stock - even after they no longer made the M1914 or stocks.
Okay - so skip all the history carp and get on to the good stuff!
If ya wanna see him nekkid and exposed... and understand how he works, then come back, behind the curtain, to the peep show in the Flash Traffic/Extended Entry!
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows �
Pervs!
Heh. My kinda people!
Georg, like several of the early automatic pistols, uses dual recoil. In his case, that means that the action remains locked, and recoils as a unit, until the round knob on the toggle hits the ramp, which breaks the toggle upward. This is the basis of Borchardt’s contribution to the design. Then the bolt and toggle continue to the rear, giving that awkward humped appearance during firing and when the bolt locks back on an empty magazine.
The other famous German pistol of the era, the Mauser Broomhandle (seen here hiding amongst other Castle holdings - he's the leftmost wooden-stocked pistol - the other one is the Castle Inglis Hi-Power), also uses dual recoil, though in a different manner - and a subject of a different post. If you look at most automatics today, they still do that, though in a sneaky way requiring far fewer moving parts - the genius of John Browning. The toggle link of the M1911 style pistols does exactly the same thing the Luger's toggle link does - keeps the barrel locked during initial recoil, then, by being anchored to the frame rather than the slide, pulls the barrel out of battery and the slide continues to the rear. Again, the subject of another post.
Just as the genius of the Vickers machine gun was to change the way the toggle of the Maxim worked (and Browning’s MG genius was getting rid of the toggle altogether) so too changing the anchor point of the toggle from the slide to the frame vastly simplified the design, manufacture, and reliability of the automatic pistol by keeping all the moving parts inside the pistol and away from icky things like mud and dust and sand, all of which make Georg the Castle Luger and his brethren persnickety. And when Mean People Who Suck™ are trying to kill you, that is Very Annoying™. Very annoying, indeed.
Where was I? Oh, yeah – we’ve just finished the recoil stroke and now the bolt goes forward, strips a round, then the bolt hits home, the toggle and slide lock, and we’re ready to do it all again.
The Luger has some interesting characteristics. There isn’t a hammer. The sear bar (which the trigger lever acts on to release the firing pin) is actually exposed to view. The spring in the butt, which for most automatics, would be the hammer spring, is the recoil spring. And man, I’m really a geek….
For all his complexity, Georg is not hard to take apart and put back together. Nor, unless you get ambitious, are any parts going to come shooting out to get lost in the carpet. *I’m* not going to tell you how to pull it apart enough for that to happen – so if you lose pins and set screws – you’ve been playing gunsmith without a license.
Okay, let’s play!
First, put the pistol on safe (gesichert). Remove the magazine. Grab the circular knobs on the toggle and pull up – visually inspect and clear the chamber. Always, always, always clear the weapon before you do anything with it. And remember to take the magazine out first. Some of my funnier war stories involve people (*never* me) who forgot to take the magazine out first. Hi Mike! Remember - Safety On. I should take time to be pedantic about how the safety works, eh? Besides I took the pic and made this pretty graphic...
Okay - to continue, you have to free up the take-down bolt. To do that, you have to push back the slide a bit – which is a challenge, since the recoil spring is stout. Wimps and girly-men will put the pistol muzzle down on the table, or push it against the wall or similar surface, and then you push the take-down bolt down. The Armorer, being lazy and not wanting SWWBO to kill him for leaving muzzle dents in the furniture and walls, grasps the pistol in his right hand, and pushes it against the palm of his left hand, using his left thumb to push down the take-down bolt. See why I’m so anal about Clearing the Weapon? I have a personal stake. I’m left handed. Get your mind out of the gutter, sheesh. Okay, pull out the pin. Oops. What was that tinkling sound on the floor? That was the sideplate falling away... Actually, if you hold the pistol tilted with the left side facing slightly up, that won’t happen.
Take a look at that sideplate. It’s actually a key component. First, it covers the exposed sear bar, preventing accidental discharges. Second, it contains the lever which the trigger works on to release the sear, firing the pistol. With the take-down bolt removed, the slide will now come off. Pull the toggle up, and you can now pull the toggle pin and remove the toggle and bolt.
Now you can see how the bolt works. As the bolt recoils, the cam on the forward toggle link pulls back the firing pin against spring pressure. As the bolt goes forward, the pin is held back by the notch on the sear bar. At this point, you’ve taken it as far apart as you generally need to, but there is one more level you can go. Bolt disassembly. Whee!
Take a flat tip screwdriver, insert it into the slot on the firing pin guide at the rear of the bolt, turn it ¼ to the right – and the guide, spring, and firing pin will come out. Under tension, so be careful. Clean it all, nice light coat of oil, and pretty much assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
Anyway – there it is – Georg, the Castle Luger, bares his inner sekrits!
Move along, there’s nothing to see here. The show's over!
Wait! What's that? You want an encore, you say? You are such a geek that you want an exploded drawing of the Luger and all the fiddly bits?
Say no more! Click here.
� Secure this line!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
I'm holding out for the conclusion of the 'History of Firearms' series. (looks at watch, set to geologic time, and taps foot).
by ry on January 29, 2006 2:12 AM
Pllpppppt!
by
John of Argghhh! on January 29, 2006 7:51 AM
If nothing else, this post proves that you're the best gun pr0nographer out there.
Which is why I gave you my vote :-)
by
Harvey on January 29, 2006 8:10 AM
Heh. I guess Oleg woke up - he caught me and left me in the dust again...
by
John of Argghhh! on January 29, 2006 4:51 PM
Yout watch is running fast, Ry--it's only half-past the Ogliocene...
by cw4(ret)billt on January 30, 2006 12:06 AM
The problem will start when the topics become lithic.
Cheers
JMH
by J.M. Heinrichs on January 30, 2006 6:51 AM
Ok, JoA, I voted for ya 1st this time.
The Complete Description, Laid Out:
1. JoA
2. Oleg
3. Kim
4. Uncle
5. Head's something
6. Mr. Completely
7. Cowboy Blob
8. Kit's Forever Vain
9. Xavier Thoughts
10. I'm sorry, really, who was the other guy?
I *think* that's what I wrote for the contest!
by
Justthisguy on January 30, 2006 7:17 AM
Like I said, though - Oleg's pics of naked Kit with a gun, now that Oleg has noticed and told his fans, ain't beatable...
by
John of Argghhh! on January 30, 2006 7:25 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
January 12, 2006
Little tiny additions.
Not to the Castle, but to the Armory Holdings. As noted, large, expensive additions to the collection are on hold, so the Armorer indulges his collecting jones with smaller stuff, in price, if not always in size. Yesterday's mail delivered a case in point. The Armorer is a Rotarian - and one of the fun things about my particular club is that they are very tolerant of their more eccentric members (among whom the Armorer, of course, is numbered). Rotary sponsors several forms of international exchange programs, both hosting international students and small groups of Rotary-sponsored people doing research, projects, etc. We are probably one of the few clubs that takes visiting foreigners out shooting, usually themed shoots, such as the US Civil War for the Japanese group last year (using member's Civil War era firearms), the South American Mauser shoot for the Argentines, etc. The Armorer has hauled some of the Castle Holdings to meetings, and we've had guest speakers bring their own Kewl and Needful Things to illustrate their talks.
Then there's my usual table and the two other geeks who sit there, Beau and Charley. Charley is a groupie. He got into collecting late, whereas Beau has been collecting for 50 years, and I, 33. We sometimes look like drug dealers or gun runners out in the parking lot, open the trunk and admiring some wondrous new acquisition. We do have some discretion - we don't routinely stroll in with pistols and rifles. But we do stroll in with pocket-sized stuff. I went home yesterday to let the Exterior Guard assume their duties, and the mail had arrived.
Which contained this wonderful bounty from France:
Lefaucheux pinfire rounds, in 5, 7, 9, and 12mm caliber, and 5 (only one shown) 6mm Longue cartidges. The Longue was interesting to me as it is another transitional cartridge (as discussed in this post some time ago) reflecting the state of manufacturing at the time - using a copper case and a brass base, because they hadn't worked out all the kinks of producing drawn brass cartridges with primer pockets in their bases. The Longue is a rimfire cartridge, meaning the primer composition is in the rim of the base of the cartridge, rather than in the center of the base - just as .22 ammunition is today.
The pinfires represent a different form of transition - that of figuring out just where the heck the primer goes. You may be surprised to learn this system was was developed by a Frenchman named Casimir Lefaucheux possibly as early as 1828, and it was certainly established on the Continent by 1840, though it was slower to jump the Channel, reaching England at the Great Exhibition in London in 1851, and making it to the US just prior to the Civil War. These rounds represent the attempt to apply percussion primers with self-obturating (sealing) cartridge cases, to produce effective, reliable self-contained breech-loading ammunition.
This is how they worked - the primer was either glued to the side of the cartridge on the inside, or was embedded in molded powder compound, and the pin runs through the cartridge and protrudes from the side, as this diagram from an old book shows.
It worked fairly well, all things considered - the drawbacks being complicated assembly and the fact that there would be some blow-by around the pin - which was okay in a black powder weapon, which generates relatively low, slow-building pressure, but wasn't going to work for the new nitro-based smokeless powders.
The Arsenal does not yet contain (but will, but will) any pinfire weapons. A pinfire pistol looks pretty much like any other, with two exceptions.
And if you want to see those - hit the Flash Traffic/Extended Entry!
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows �
One, to modern eyes, is the little hole at the back of the cylinder, through which the pin protruded. Like this:
Here we see another flaw in the system - the protruding pin can be problematic when dropped, for example, hence most pistols have a rim either in the cylinder or the frame that is as high as the pin, to help protect from accidental discharge. More expensively, pistols were made with shields that covered the pin entirely, as in this pistol. All of which made for more expensive weapons. Yet another drawback was getting manufacturers to standardize the amount of pin protrusion, and the quality control to make it happen - else you were going to be restricted to using a specific brand of ammunition. Regardless, this was still preferable to separate loading of individual components. Except in a military application. Pinfires did not enjoy much luck with the militaries of the day, who saw the expense and risks far outweighing the benefits.
The last thing about a pinfire pistol that will catch a modern eye is the hammer - they seem to sit too far forward on the cylinder, and they are particularly noticeable when cocked, as in this example of a 20-chambered Belgian revolver.
Anybody got a nice pinfire for sale cheep - drop me a line!
If you liked this post, you'll probably also enjoy this one, on the Snider cartridge, and this one, on British .303 cordite rounds. Or, just for fun, this one or this one.
� Secure this line!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
no matter how many of them lil tiny Frog bullets you surround the sterling Gen Washington with he will not yield
by jim b on January 12, 2006 11:17 AM
I can see why the Quartermaster folks frowned on those things; they look *delicate*, i.e., easily banged up so that they won't work, as a consequence of just carrying them around in the field.
by
Justthisguy on January 13, 2006 6:20 PM
Umm, I shoulda wrote "Ordnance," above.
by Justthisguy on January 13, 2006 6:26 PM
Nope. Those things are too small to dignify with that term!
by cw4(ret)billt on January 13, 2006 7:26 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
December 18, 2005
The Christmas Party of Argghhh!
For those who don't follow She Who Buys Me Machineguns' saga this holiday season will have missed the fact that the Armorer usually has 5 pretty fun Christmas Parties in the season. My firm's, Beth's firm's, Rotary, the client's, and the sub-section of client's (the guys I actually work with day-to-day, vice the whole organization).
The client, being government, everybody pays out-of-pocket for those. Rotary, being a fund-raiser, ya pay some more (but it's still a fun party). The corporate parties are paid for by the firms, with mebbe a kicker for spouses. I hate doing parties stag. Really hate it. Suffice it to say that this year, SWWBO's travel schedule has prevented her from going to *any* parties, and all the money we paid for her to attend... well, ain't getting any of it back. There's a used Lee-Enfield rifle-equivalent of our cash gone back into the economy as donations...
I did attend the Rotary party, and while I put in an appearance at my company party, my heart wasn't in it, and rather than paste on a happy face, I left early. As in during the cocktail hour, *before* dinner, after I had made nice with the Senior People. I just couldn't force myself continue to be pleasant, and *that* would have been rude to everybody, just being a depressed lump at the table, tapping my fingers waiting for everything to end. So I left. I spent more time driving to and from than I spent at the party itself. Sometimes the Armorer just isn't a people person.
So why all this recitation of that doom and gloom? Simple. KCSteve to the rescue! Steve is a reader who lives in the KC area and is a member of Missouri Carry. He invited me to their local Christmas party, held last night at the Total Range complex in St. Joseph, Missouri (just north of here, for those not up on their regional geography).
It was odd, being among a bunch of people who *really* know their modern stuff, given that the Armorer thinks anything younger than 35 or so years of age is a punk. I saw some *very* nice carry pieces, target pieces, a combat shotgun... all in hands of nice, polite, but *very* serious people. Steve's wife was there, and she's a live wire... Steve, like me, is a large, scary man with a beard. Unlike me, he's married to a very petite woman (SWWBO is *regular* sized). A very petite woman who likes to shoot her pistol... with a laser on it... and that laser dot doesn't move very much at all. I only wish I was as steady as she is... for those who remember the Lethal Weapon movie with Mel Gibson's character shooting the happy face on the target? This pistol-packin' momma can actually do it...
The range can take hiigh-powered rifles (though I didn't ask about .50's), and they have a combat shooting range inside - a shoot house. And they do force-on-force in there, too, with training ammo. That might be fun, if I get to feelin' the need to get shot at again. Definitely a venue under consideration for the Blog Shoot of Arggghhh! this spring.
I won the nonexistent prize for oldest weapon. Being the Armorer, I took something historical. In this case, Georg, the Luger.
For an 87 year old guy, Georg shoots pretty well, hampered only by the fact that his assistant isn't anywhere near as good as he is. No jams, functioned flawlessly with American Eagle fmj fodder, at 20 yards. For such a stubby barrel, Georg ain't too bad, though he takes a while to reload. Yeah, yeah, I know, get a loading tool. Heh. All of us older guys take a while to reload... but I digress.
The flyers in the 7 and 8 ring are all me in rapid fire. The trend left is a function of my glasses and lighting. I was paying attention to what I was doing with the trigger finger and grip. Shooting wearing progressive lenses is a challenge. If I was shooting competively, I'd get purpose made glasses for respective ranges.
For shooting bad guys in the parking lot at night... I think I have it down, even if I can't do a happy face.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Christmas luncheon
Chit-chat b.s., obviously looking like I don't want to be there: 10 minutes
Photos with at least eight cameras: 10 more minutes
Outstanding meal: 20 minutes
Getting up and leaving the club before anyone knows I'm gone and hitching a ride from some golfer dudes because I didn't drive: Priceless
by Toluca Nole on December 18, 2005 1:53 PM
sounds like you had some fun, John. Looks like I may need to get a bigger gun case for the trip....
by klkk on December 18, 2005 1:53 PM
Spiffy- shooting the classics is just more fun. This was shot in Texas the day I met Sanger and his Frau for lunch. My delicate little flower of a daughter was trying out her Christmas present...
sheesh- I useta buy her Barbie dolls...!
by Neffi on December 18, 2005 3:57 PM
Note she wasn't going for grouping- her handgun training is rapid double-taps starting with the pistol in the rest position. Pistol was S&W .38 Special snubbie from 15 yards so not too bad...
by Neffi on December 18, 2005 4:00 PM
There were only three clear misses, I think. Far more often than not, she'd have had their attention, methinks.
by
John of Argghhh! on December 18, 2005 4:10 PM
Nice shootin' there, John - and I'm glad you got out of the house for a fun jaunt. I know what you mean about progressive lenses - they cause fits for golfing as well. I'd be happy with mostly 8/9's and an occational 7 when speed shooting. Once I have 'em slowed down, I can aim better for the next shot ;-)
Our first Christmas party was last Saturday night -- it was okay, too many people in a venue that was under construction and not big enough (and that was only services / support!). Today is the nice small one for the Hubster's firm. We are taking a boat ride this evening on Lake Washington, as part of the 'Christmas Ship Parade' - should be kewl. Then again, the winds today have been gusting around the house all morning, dropping small tree limbs everywhere - I hope it isn't like that on the lake ... *brrrrr*!
by
Barb on December 18, 2005 4:11 PM
Oh ... and Neffi - I wish my Dad had been into guns. I didn't get started until I met the Hubster, so I have to make up for lost time ;-)
by
Barb on December 18, 2005 4:15 PM
I hate doing parties stag.
hmmm..... I've always liked stag parties, myself...
OHHH!!! GOING stag.... *nevermind*
*snicker*
by Were-Kitten on December 18, 2005 8:52 PM
John,
It was great getting to meet you 'live' at the party. Thanks for the truly neat memto!
Oh, and if you thought my ever-indulgent wife was having fun with her Walther P-22, you should have seen her when she ran a couple of rounds through the combat shotgun. It feels like it's almost worth the 9 months of paperwork it took WildWilli to get it (it's short enough to be classed as an AOW). Amazing how well it point shoots, although since it lacks any sort of sight it's not like you have many options.
Saturday's party was just a continuation of proving what I've always heard - You meet the nicest people at the gun range.
by KCSteve on December 19, 2005 4:24 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Dec 18, 2005
�
Stop The ACLU links with:
Sunday Funnies
�
Kesher Talk links with:
Welcome to the RINO Carnival
�
Kesher Talk links with:
Welcome to the RINO Carnival
November 20, 2005
Serious Timewaster
Especially if you'd like to spend some time getting some practice with sight pictures, and setting sights for competition weapons.
I lost an hour of my life here so far... and will no doubt lose more.
Euro Firearm Simulator.
Heh. Might be a way to work this into a Cyber-shoot...
Work safe for just about everybody but Ry.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Oh the humanity...
First he has home Gun Pron, then he goes to online Gun Pron, and NOW our fearless leader has to resort to SIMULATED gun Pron??
Look out, the Birkenstocks are right around the corner.
by Jon The Mechanic on November 20, 2005 10:56 AM
Heh. I *still* have the home gun pr0n, wrench monkey. What's yer basement look like?
And I would prefer the Denizens be practiced with BRM *before* they start shooting up my ammo in the spring, eh?
by
John of Argghhh! on November 20, 2005 11:07 AM
I see your ulterior motives, John! Do we have to submit screen shots of minimum scores to qual for open range activity? heh!
Took me a few minutes to figure out the Advanced Pistol (indoor), so I won't submit my 3-target scores for the first round. Maybe the next one. Gads, I could waste may hours playing with this site!!
by
Barb on November 20, 2005 12:38 PM
Another great time waster.
I keep playing the demo over, and over ... :)
by David Cress on November 20, 2005 5:33 PM
Ooooh. That *is* nice Dave!
by
John of Argghhh! on November 20, 2005 8:18 PM
You supplying the hardware for the spring shoot, or do I bring my own? I have a couple I haven't shot yet so I may bring those.
by msg keith on November 20, 2005 10:20 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
November 19, 2005
Okay Pistol Grognards...
Any of you smart guys seen a M1911 with this modification before?
Picture 2.
Picture 3.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
I can't say I have. I'm not even sure why you'd want to something like that.
by
Chris Short on November 19, 2005 1:08 PM
My only thought is gloved fingers.
A friend of mine in Texas is considering buying it... I doubt it got modded down there for gloves!
by
John of Argghhh! on November 19, 2005 1:11 PM
But on a 1911 is the triggerguard that small that you need to modify it to wear shooting gloves?
Well, only if you have man hands and North Pole quality gloves.
by
Chris Short on November 19, 2005 1:20 PM
Oh yeah, Next time that there is a bayonette charge up a frozen Korean Hill, the Leftenant can handle that puppy with ease, in his MITTED hand.
by Borinqueneer Boquisucio on November 19, 2005 1:21 PM
I've seen that mod on several 'Old West' sixguns... it supposedly allows quicker and surer access for the trigger finger during a fast draw. Looks like it was done a long time ago, by a competent 'smith- but unless it comes with some provenance pointing to previous ownership by a lawman or bandit, the mod should drop the price considerably...
In the bayonet collecting fraternity we refer to this as being 'Bubba-ized'.
by Neffi on November 19, 2005 2:11 PM
Where is your friend? I'm heading for the Lone Star state at zero-dark-thirty tomorrow for a family Thanksgiving (my sis lives south of Austin).
by Neffi on November 19, 2005 2:18 PM
The same term applies in the firearms community.
Your thoughts are my thoughts, mostly, Neffi - a 'quick-draw' Bubbafication of a M1911... oh well, it was Bubba's pistol, eh?
by
John of Argghhh! on November 19, 2005 2:19 PM
Yeah, too bad- the pistol looks pretty nice, otherwise...
by Neffi on November 19, 2005 2:30 PM
It really does seem to be a custom job for a pistolero. Note the trigger; and the front sight *appears* to have been lowered, though that might be an issue of perspective. I bet it's had an action job, too- sear and feed-ramp.
If your friend can get it for a good price it would make a good conversation piece, eh?
by Neffi on November 19, 2005 2:41 PM
It would. He's in San Antonio, works at 5th Army at Fort Sam.
by
John of Argghhh! on November 19, 2005 3:28 PM
I don't have my library available, since I've just been mobilized; however, if memory serves W.E. Fairbairn mentioned this modification in one of his books, as a way to improve speed of shooting. It apparently was very popular in the late '20s - early 30s (if I remember the time right.) The book, (actually found at Amazon!)is Shooting to Live.
I MAY have the wrong book/author! Sorry if that's the case.
I've seen quite a few pictures of this mod over the years, mostly on revolvers, and several examples 'in the flesh'. But the style went out of style and properly began to disappear as people began to realize how dangerous it actually is.
by
Dennis on November 19, 2005 8:18 PM
I don't have my library available, since I've just been mobilized; however, if memory serves W.E. Fairbairn mentioned this modification in one of his books, as a way to improve speed of shooting. It apparently was very popular in the late '20s - early 30s (if I remember the time right.) The book, (actually found at Amazon!)is Shooting to Live.
I MAY have the wrong book/author! Sorry if that's the case.
I've seen quite a few pictures of this mod over the years, mostly on revolvers, and several examples 'in the flesh'. But the style went out of style and properly began to disappear as people began to realize how dangerous it actually is.
by
Dennis on November 19, 2005 8:19 PM
Neffi,
Where you goin!? Send me a note to my other e-mail address if you want, I am not far from south of Austin ('bout an hour)... Maybe we could 'lunch', especially if you're comin here to look at the gun...?
Let me know....
I drove by Ft. Sam today!! Enroute to the Legacy of Peter show at the convention center, in fact... If you have the chance, you must see this exhibit!
http://www.hispanicprwire.com/news.php?l=in&id=4049&cha=1
by SangerM on November 19, 2005 8:54 PM
Sanger, I've sent you a note. I'm always cruising for militaria but that particular pistol is not actually my kinda thing... mayhaps I'll see you for a drink next week, eh?
by Neffi on November 19, 2005 9:24 PM
Neffi,
Not sure what address you used... I've not got anything. Just put smagee on the front of the domain above and that'll do it. I can't find the msgs we've swapped before... Sorry.
by SangerM on November 19, 2005 10:18 PM
That looks like a Fitz Special conversion, but those were (to my knowledge) only done on double-action revolvers. Doing it to a single-action automatic looks to me like an invitation to a negligent discharge.
by
Kevin Baker on November 19, 2005 10:26 PM
Texas is right for that. If you are ever in Waco go to the Texas Ranger Museum. Most of the Colts there, 1911s and earlier models, have the trigger guard completely removed.
by Mike on November 20, 2005 8:52 AM
Texas is right for a cowboy-style mod, yep. But not for a gloved finger mod. At least not for the two winters I lived there!
by
John of Argghhh! on November 20, 2005 9:34 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
September 7, 2005
Hey! It's been too long.
Hey! 1.7 million kids live in homes with loaded guns! I think I'm supposed to be upset at that. I'll be upset if they are improperly stored loaded guns... otherwise, welcome to my world!
My son grew up in a house with guns. Lots of 'em. And not one shot was fired in the house! Whew! Dodged a bullet there, eh? Just dumb luck, I'm sure.
I originally started blogging about guns and gun collecting. Of course, when I saw all the people who did that so much better than I, I switched to politics. Boy, was that a bad idea. So, I drifted into general military stuff.
But by golly, it's been too long since the collection made an appearance!
So, how about the pistols?
There. I feel better now. Except, I need to add a new one!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Gee - it does my heart good to see gun pics ... but I'm just one of those gray sheepdogs in training!
by
Barb on September 7, 2005 11:43 AM
1.7 million kids. Huh.
Anybody know how many police, constables, sheriff's deputies, hiway patrol, state troopers, etc. there are in the US?
by homebru on September 7, 2005 12:23 PM
How cuuuute is dat diddle baaaybeee above the Broomhandled Mauser. Never heard of Gun Pr0n and baby pictures going together, but in a strange twisted way, they do.
by Boquisucio on September 7, 2005 12:39 PM
Ah John...everytime you show that Inglis Browning with the stock on it...I get sad at seeing it in American captivity.
by Dr_Funk on September 7, 2005 1:15 PM
Dr. Funk - Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
by
John of Argghhh! on September 7, 2005 1:29 PM
Oh, and Paul - it has a warm and appreciative home, where it is prominently displayed...
by
John of Argghhh! on September 7, 2005 1:30 PM
Nice- I especially like the Starr and the Roth-Steyr... is the Astra WaA proofed?
by Neffi on September 7, 2005 1:47 PM
Woot! Would want well-worn pwobable Webwey in uppa wight-hand wocation.
by Justthisguy on September 7, 2005 2:25 PM
You wouldn't happen to have a Liberator in there anywhere would you?
by
cowboy blob on September 7, 2005 4:01 PM
Blob - I wish!
by
John of Argghhh! on September 7, 2005 4:17 PM
er, umm... I did mean to say Steyr-Hahn rather than Roth Steyr. YOU knew what I meant... heh
by Neffi on September 7, 2005 7:18 PM
Neffi - no, it's a Spanish Army Astra, in 9mm Largo.
And Boq - that Webley .25 was captured from a German officer in Normandy, who was also carrying the Steyr pistol (which is Austrian miltary, not one of the SA or Police issues).
And he'd taken the Webley from a prisoner at Dieppe.
by
John of Argghhh! on September 7, 2005 7:55 PM
Ooooo, Da Baaaaybeeee Webley&Scott 6.35x16mm!!!
Sweeet.
by Boquisucio on September 7, 2005 8:35 PM
THe inlaws are in town. Can I borrow something? I want them to leave, fast.
by ry on September 7, 2005 11:23 PM
A man and his family can never have enough guns. Kids need to qualify on at least one and familiarize with the rest. And of course learn how to clean, and care for these jewels!
But most importantly they need to be comfortable with and understand how to tell the difference tween a toy and a weapon and what one never plays with. Those who fail to teach their tykes, do so at their peril.
by
NOTR on September 7, 2005 11:52 PM
I love pistals, but, I like to be able to fire all my guns in one trip to the range. You couldn't shoot all those in a week of sundays! When You have more guns around than you can shoot in one day, you have a problem. I am not a liberal, or a pinko, (I am a libertarian) but might I suggest a corrective surgery on your dick instead of all these substitutes? LOL. Nice collection, but too many pistols.
by Shocked on September 8, 2005 7:55 AM
Demonstrating a complete lack of understanding as to why I have them.
There isn't a *new* weapon in there... the most recent manufactures would be the Polish Tokarev and the Soviet Makarov.
That's history sitting on the table, fella. Not home defense. You simply have waaaaay too narrow a view.
I've got over 100 rifles, too, bubba.
Then there's the machine guns and mortars and recoiless rifles.
As for your silly psychoanalysis... #82.
by
John of Argghhh! on September 8, 2005 8:21 AM
...and The Armorer whips out the 'big gun'...
Attaboy, John- you'd think any maroon could tell a collection when they see it.
by Neffi on September 8, 2005 10:53 AM
As a character said in a Tom Clancy novel: "Your ji-ji isn't big enough for you to get into a pissing match with us."
by Justthisguy on September 8, 2005 2:59 PM
Men! Gotta love 'em... ;)
by
Fuzzybear Lioness on September 8, 2005 5:31 PM
My first thought when I saw the headline about 1.7 million children live in homes with a gun was that that's 1.7 million kids who don't have to worry about kidnappers or Michael Jackson.
by
MKL on September 9, 2005 1:05 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Sep 07, 2005
�
Alphecca links with:
A Nice Pistol Collection
August 4, 2005
Heh. Just heh.
From an email.
FM Radio
This unusual weapon is a functional FM radio with earphones that is worn on a belt but also conceals a gun. Law enforcement officers should be aware of the possible threat of this object.
H/t, Dave M.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Ooooooh...where can I get me one?
by
vilmar on August 4, 2005 3:11 PM
*turns to server logs to see how soon ATFE starts tracking Vilmar's IP...*
by
John of Argghhh! on August 4, 2005 3:20 PM
Huh - Vilmar stole my thought ;-)
by
Barb on August 4, 2005 3:23 PM
Sweeeeet.
Is that a Beretta in there?
by
jimmyb on August 4, 2005 3:32 PM
I haven't taken the time to check yet!
Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?
by
John of Argghhh! on August 4, 2005 3:38 PM
Beat me to it, Jimmy. I was about to write, "Is that one of those little cute-but-mostly-useless little tip-barrel Berettae?" Had a bad experience with one of those, once. Went to visit the sister of a friend's wife, one time. Sis was not home, F's W and I approached house with key. The door fell open as soon as I touched it. Uh oh! F's W runs to truck, grabs Beretta, presses it into my hand. I nervously attempted to chamber a round. Now I'm not very big and strong, but managed to jerk the slide off the piece, exposing those silly wire hairpin recoil springs. Turned out there were no burglars or nuthin, just a forgetting to lock the door. It took a while with a screwdriver to get that thing apart enough to put it back together. Nah, for emergencies I want a revolver, or at least a stouter autoloader.
by Justthisguy on August 4, 2005 3:42 PM
Betcha $5 it's a Beretta very like the one I mentioned above, JoA. Note the distinctive decoration on the grip scales and the cut-away forward portion of the slide, and the sexy curves at the hind end. Of course I don't see a hammer, so it ain't exactly the same, but the *gestalt* yells Beretta into my little mind.
Wait! It does have a hammer! Hard to see, the way it's lit, but, yup, it's one a' them little .22/.25 pieces. I think it's the one that came in either .22 Short or .25 Auto, not the one in .22LR.
by Justthisguy on August 4, 2005 4:05 PM
How quuute that diddle Beretta .32 Auto Tomcat!!! 100% manufactured right in this here County that I reside. Pitty though, that the socialist running this workers paradise - aka Suburban Maryland, are running this industry out of the state.
by Boquisucio on August 4, 2005 4:11 PM
Oh, BTW 'ere's the link, JTG.
by Boquisucio on August 4, 2005 4:15 PM
Serves 'em right for putting the factory in a town with such a silly name. When you say Accokeek, I say "Gesundheit!" Oh, and how do you know it's the .32, and not the smaller caliber. The Armorer and I did not shake hands on that bet, but I'll pay up if wrong. It does seem "very like" the Bearcat .25 or whatever Beretta calls the cute little pretentious thing.
by Justthisguy on August 4, 2005 4:20 PM
Boqui, yer last post appeared while I was answering the one before. Yup, appears to be the .32, which is very like the .25. I'll let JoA be sole judge as to whether or not I owe him on this one.
by Justthisguy on August 4, 2005 4:26 PM
BATFE won't care about it. Well, depending on where you are and whether you have a CPL. I could carry that legally here in the slightly-less-communist-than-California state of Washington..
Not confidently, but legally.
Even a .380 would leave me uneasy about it's effectiveness, should I need it. If it fails to penetrate someone's rib buckle, or skull, my time would be better spent looking for a stout candlestick to defend myself with.
Smallest I carry is 9mm, but only in +P+. Even my wife carries a .45.
by MCart on August 4, 2005 6:37 PM
hmmm the slide on a Beretta .32 shouldn't come off unless the barrel has been released and then tipped forward past it's stop... mebbe F's W's H had played around with the mechs of the piece? It's amazing, the number of 'Bubba'ed' pistols there are floating around out there.
Nothing wrong with the Tomcat- even in .32. BECUZZZZ... - that was all that was available at the time! Or you could just wish you had the .45 you left at home... I'm not talking about you, McCart if you carry regular.
But I do get the occasional chuckle when listening to the 'big-and-slow' crowd talk about how good they are with a .45 and how they wouldn't never ever carry no dang puny mouse-gun to a gunfight- and then I whip out the Sig and ask them where their .45s are! "Uhhh... in the truck/house/shop" is the usual reply... heh
I practice regularly and my standard is 'draw fron concealed carry, double-tap center-of-mass' in less than 2 seconds- twenty feet to the target. I use a five-inch circle as the aiming point, no 10X rings for me. This is purely defensive shooting, and yes- if I knew I was gonna be in a fire-fight I would carry a shorty 12 guage; but that's illegal and hard to conceal.
My light and handy Sig stoked with eight rounds of 90-grain .380 Federal HydraShocks does me just fine...
Your mileage may vary. ;)
by Neffi on August 4, 2005 7:59 PM
ps- I like that bumper sticker:
ATFE SHOULD BE A CONVENIENCE STORE, NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY
heh- all my favorite stuff under one roof- a guy can dream...
by Neffi on August 4, 2005 8:04 PM
Neffi - I like your choice. After all - two rounds of .380 on target are better than 10 rounds of .45 that miss the target, and MUCH better than nothing when you need it.
by
Barb on August 4, 2005 8:23 PM
Carry a .25 ACP if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody -- and he finds out about it -- he may be very angry with you.
by Craig on August 4, 2005 8:28 PM
Hear - Hear Neff. Accuracy and Power, are better than Accuracy and Pokey. However, Accuracy and Pokey beats Inaccuracy and Power any time.
As the sage curator of cutlery stated:
If I knew I was gonna be in a fire-fight I would carry a shorty 12 gauge
Accuracy and Power.
However there is much disrespect for the smaller calibers. Poor .32's Poor .25's and Poor .22's, Brawny men of Inflated Egoes and Small Brains deem you worthy of girly-girls, and of plinkin' cans.
Does anyone remember that kook from Boston, about ten years ago, who went on his personal Abortion Clinic Closing Crusade? If memory serves me right, his rampage from Massachusetts through Virginia, took the lives of eight fellow humans with the use of a simple and "winnie" .22LR.
As diddle pup, the first thing I learnt, before I was allowed even to touch a firearm was to respect its lethality no matter its caliber.
by Boquisucio on August 4, 2005 8:49 PM
All too true, Boq- and I'll bet that .22s, .25s, and .32s have filled more mortuary slabs than the bigger calibres combined. But they ain't manly, you know.
When I held an FFL I had a customer who insisted he needed a S&W .44 Magnum, stainless steel with six-inch barrel. For self-defense... I tried to talk him into something more sensible like a .357 mag or 9mm, or even a .44 Special. But he was dead set on the M29 in .44 Mag- "cuz Harry Callahan carried one"... his words. I got one for him; he seemed pretty awed at the size and weight of the thing, he'd never seen one before [in the flesh, as it were]. Some weeks later I bought it back from him after he'd fired a couple of rounds- at a good profit for me- and then passed it on to a S&W collector, for another profit.
Fast shots on target count; big-gun machismo falls to the ground wondering why the sky is going dark..
by Neffi on August 4, 2005 9:19 PM
The slide did not come *all the way* off, that was the problem. As I wrote above, I had to figure out how to take the thing the rest of the way apart, before I could put it back together again. Had to get a file and work on a screwdriver with it to get something that would fit some of those screws. Argghhh!!! (Please, Sir, may I have 100 more !s?)
by Justthisguy on August 4, 2005 9:22 PM
...but JTG, we know how ya like to take tools to the goodies [JoA whimpers in the background]
heh
by Neffi on August 4, 2005 10:05 PM
The legality of the radio gun holder depends on whether or not you have to remove the gun from the radio in order to fire it. If you do, than it's legally considered a holster. If you can fire the gun while it's still in the radio, than the gun and radio together constitute an Class III AOW (Any Other Weapon). This would still be legal to posesses, provided you go through the proper procedure for registering as such.
by
Stormy Dragon on August 4, 2005 11:02 PM
Fair points on whether you carry it or not. A .380 in your jacket is more effective than the .45 you left at home, certainly.
But.
The only time I personally leave a gun at home, is when I'm going someplace guns are not allowed, such as work.
My 9mm is a full sized autoloader, but I have no trouble concealing it, or with the weight of the polymer frame. It's the Springfield import of the CZ-2000, slightly retooled as an XD. Ranges don't generally approve of quick draw practice with a loaded weapon, so I do really need to work on my draw. Depending on whether my vest is closed or not, my draw-to-hit is closer to 3 seconds. Not great, but I'm pretty good at shooting on the move, so I can work in some improvement to my odds, even with the slower draw.
by MCart on August 4, 2005 11:45 PM
And the wife's .45... Well, lets just say the Taurus Millennium is just the cutest little thing that ever fired a freight train down it's bore. Its really not much bigger than that Beretta, but packs a MUCH bigger punch, without the danger of over-penetration that my 9mm +P+ have. She has no trouble with the recoil, so I don't think it'll be a problem.
by MCart on August 4, 2005 11:48 PM
(Bear with, your comment thing is rejecting something here, so i'm breaking my post up into pieces... Divide and Conquer)
Best of all, I carry 15+1, she has 10+1, so our reloads are staggered, allowing better suppressing fire. :)
by MCart on August 4, 2005 11:50 PM
Personally, i'm not a big fan of large wheel guns. A Colt or any of the other REALLY big frame guns (Dirty Harry style) are not practical for much of anything, IMHO. If I need something that big, i'm grabbing the FAL out of it's tennis racket bag.
by MCart on August 4, 2005 11:50 PM
(AH-HA! Your site has some kind of problem with the word 'pyth0n')
But getting back to pistols, I forgot another caliber who's size and kick pretty much make the .380 and .32 pointless. The venerable .38 Special. A well made .38, even out of stainless, is not very heavy at all. It's barely bigger than the .32, and delivers much more energy than the .32. That's actually the smallest gun I've ever bought. Smallest I would ever recommend, even to a 'little person'. :) I have a couple .22 pistols, but they are absolutely not small at all (one's a 9 shot Sentinel) so they are useless for CCP's.
Humans are pretty tough, and pretty quick, as far as animals go. Takes some doing to wreck one. A .22 LR can do it, properly placed, but I wouldn't want to depend on it. It's better for offing someone that doesn't expect it, and lets you get close, than to try and fend off an attacker.
by Mcart on August 4, 2005 11:52 PM
python
by
John of Argghhh! on August 5, 2005 5:57 AM
heh. It isn't *this morning*, go figure.
Whatever the problem is, you worked around it.
Kansas doesn't allow concealed carry, so I don't. And, to be truthful, I don't feel the need, anyway. I've got a 12 gauge Winchester 97 Trench Gun for Defense of the Castle.
If I chose to start carrying, I would probably examine high quality 9mm/45 autoloaders and revolvers. Looking for the best combination of ease of carry and access, point-to-target handiness that matches my hand, style, and eye, and reliability.
In other words, something that doesn't get in the way, that I can get to quickly, fits my shooting style, and won't want to spring off-target every time I pull the trigger.
But for now, I'll just continue to maintain my situational awareness, and not go to places where I feel I probably *should* carry (which, at this point, would currently constitute one heckuva lot of downtown KC at night - but as Kat has noted, right now, there isn't a heckuva lot to *do* in downtown KC at night) and trust in the law of big numbers.
Which doesn't mean I won't continue to ping state government on the carry issue - and if we were to make it legal in Kansas I'd get a permit... but I really don't think I would carry much. I've got local friends who don't share my "head in the sand" attitude, I assure you.
I would just point out getting busted for a firearms violation would cost me my job, my clearance, my pension (while in jail anyway) and disability payment, and while SWWBO would probably be able to keep the house, the significant investment that is the Arsenal would go bye-bye, uncompensated, too.
I know, "better judged by 12 than carried by 6," etc, but the truth is, given where and how I live, my risk assessment says I'm far far far more likely to get in trouble for carrying than I am to end up facing "Oh shite, I wish I had a gun on me right now" situation.
by
John of Argghhh! on August 5, 2005 6:14 AM
And that's the best self-defence weapon anyone can pack- situational awareness. I don't go heeled at all times; I have a piece in a hidden compartment in the Jeep thats always available, but I carry on my person less frequently... it's just not necessary in Longmont. But I'm 6'2" and 190# and move confidently- I don't project 'possible victim' like some do.
And it doesn't hurt that prospective muggers take one look at my clothing and figger I prolly don't have a dollar my name... heh
by Neffi on August 5, 2005 9:26 AM
Colt Python
by MCart on August 5, 2005 11:32 AM
OH SURE! WORKS FINE NOW!!!
:)
Dunno what it's deal was, but untill I stripped that word from my posts last night, it just wasn't going to let me post it. Wierd.
by MCart on August 5, 2005 11:33 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Aug 04, 2005
�
Righty in a Lefty State links with:
Most Americans
February 25, 2005
The Answer
All righty then... yesterday I brought out the Arsenal's Chinese Type 51 copy of the Soviet Tokarev pistol. He was damaged during his career on active service, though not as badly as his previous owner who was deadlined and dropped from the reporting system.
And the answer? How many dings?
And the Lord of the Keep spake, saying, 'First shalt thou peer closely, seeking the places where metal is not, yet whereat it should be. Then shalt thou count those places where metal, due to energetic energy transfer, hath been made thinner, yet denser, than previous. Seek thou also the place where plastic no longer is where it once was. Truly, there shall also be a lessening of metal, and a increase in density there. When thou has done this aright - Then, shalt thou count to four. No more. No less. Four shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be four. Five shalt thou not count, nor either count thou three, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Six is right out. Once the number four, being the fourth number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Cap of Celebration towards yonder scruple, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.' So ends this reading from the Book of the Castle, Chapter Miniatus Armas.
Indeed. Four is the answer. Except when it is five. As it is. But not for this, as the 5th point of damage is on the side that is terra incognito - the Far Side of the Pistol, (a new album coming soon from Pink Floyd). The hit on the backstrap hit a pin which transferred the energy over to the other side, damaging that grip as well. Per the comments from some of you yesterday, you may recognize this staining pattern, as well. There's more than that, but it proved challenging to photograph with the time I have this morning.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Its a pitty that Mr. Parker hasn't been much acquainted with her as of late. Then again, her patina fits her well for an old girl like her.
by Boquisucio on February 25, 2005 9:05 AM
Well, she'd be offended to be parked, since she was blued! Some girls are just old fashioned girls...
by
John of Argghhh! on February 25, 2005 6:04 PM
I guess it wasn't a holy handgrenade that caused the damage?!?
Mighty small dings if from a 30 cal. MG.
by SezaGeoff on February 26, 2005 4:59 AM
Geoff - who actually knows when the damage occured - the owner was pretty badly used, having been pounded back into a burning BTR, with cooking off ammo and spalling from the .50 caliber fire that continued to pound the BTR because the occupants were fighting to the end.
Sorry I can't *exactly* account for what caused each bit of damage. It wasn't someplace you wanted to be.
And go figure how the pistol survived the fire without damage...
by
John of Argghhh! on February 26, 2005 6:11 PM
Just wondering,
I hear that 140lbs worth of protein makes a great fire blanket.
by Boquisucio on February 28, 2005 12:12 PM
OK, Boq, since you brought it up....
I wasn't gonna post my thoughts on that, they being the kind to provoke the "Ewww Gross!" response in my self and others, but I must say that water, H2O, is famous for its great heat capacity, and I think an "object" composed mostly of water may well have fallen across that there pistol and absorbed a lot of that fire's heat.
by Justthisguy on February 28, 2005 10:47 PM
Justy,
Sorry for the distasteful images that I conjured. Usually, I'm all thumbs when expressing myself.
by Boquisucio on March 1, 2005 8:49 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
February 24, 2005
Okay - we did it with Bill, now let's do it with me.
Get yer mind out of the gutter.
This is the Arsenal's Chinese Type 51 Pistol, a copy of the Soviet TT33. Like "Hubert," Twitchy Bill's Trusty Steed, this pistol and its previous owner had a tough day at the office.
Unlike Twitchy and Hubert, the pistol's then-owner did not survive the encounter. Evidence of the encounter is visible on the pistol. How many hits do you see?
Click here for hi-res.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
6, maybe 7??
by AFSister on February 24, 2005 10:11 AM
I see 4 hits.
by
cowboy blob on February 24, 2005 10:12 AM
A 1966 Vintage, 7.62x25mm Tokarev Chink Knock-off. Nice museum piece; though I wouldn't like to get poked by one.
Of all the baby pictures, its good to see that were willing to adopt even ugly ducklings like that. Good thing for you that its previous parent wasn't too quick on its trigger.
At a quick glace, I count Four (4) chips: Middle-Rear Slide, Trigger, Lower Receiver, and Lower-Rear Hand Grip.
by Boquisucio on February 24, 2005 10:19 AM
It was an orphan, what could I do? Actually - I like the Tokarevs as shooters. Fit my hand comfortably, reasonably accurate. Not the most potent round, perhaps... but who uses just one anyway?
by
John of Argghhh! on February 24, 2005 10:25 AM
Looks like six definite Close Encounters of the Third Kind with an M-79 round and two possibles, for a guess of eight:
1. Sleeve above safety.
2. Two possibles on top of sleeve, just to the right of #1.
3. Trigger.
4. Frame between grip and trigger.
5. Two on rear of frame, one intruding into grip.
6. Just below "8" of "1968."
Lot of minor dings and pitting (good ol' ChiCom backyard blast-furnace steel).
by cw4billt on February 24, 2005 10:36 AM
It's a 1966, for clarity's sake. Made at Factory 66. It did *not* however, come from where you might expect from that date.
by
John of Argghhh! on February 24, 2005 10:38 AM
I see 4, but there could be one more toward the front (a hazy area.)
Which leads me to wonder, if the gun got hit 4 times, how many times did the owner get hit. Ouch.
-SangerM
by SangerM on February 24, 2005 10:40 AM
Actually, could this have belonged to someone on the wrong side of a claymore? Looks possible. . .
by SangerM on February 24, 2005 10:54 AM
Claymore wouldn't have left that much pistol to be picked up.
by name muffy the merciless on February 24, 2005 11:04 AM
What Muffy said.
The individual holding the pistol had just finished really pissing someone off by shooting it at them.
Those were the 'ti-ti' hits.
The sent/returned ratio was about 30 to 1. Then the belt had to be changed.
by
John of Argghhh! on February 24, 2005 11:10 AM
John,
Certainly, for its day the Tokarev was the cat's meow. At an age in which the best that the EuroWeenies could match was the 6.35x16mm, the TT was a Tiger in comparison.
And besides, a parent's love is unconditional; specialy to his adopted children.
by Boquisucio on February 24, 2005 11:11 AM
oh
by SangerM on February 24, 2005 11:18 AM
Late as usual, I see. Even at highest res, I only see 4, myself.
Ouch, indeed.
by
Barb on February 24, 2005 11:27 AM
*grin*
Belts, huh?
Since it didn't leave the field with its owner, and assuming that the owner didn't leave under his own steam... Does it really matter..?
by Sgt. B. on February 24, 2005 2:48 PM
SGT B - yep, and I should correct the earlier... the sent/recieved ratio from the pistol's perspective was 1 to 30, not the other way around.
by
John of Arghhh! on February 24, 2005 3:08 PM
cw;
I saw the same, plus a possible in the lower right corner of the grip. That's pretty fuzzy, but there's a streak and dimple I can't explain otherwise there.
by Brian H on February 24, 2005 6:06 PM
Brian H - That's the half-ring the lanyard clips to.
by cw4billt on February 24, 2005 7:04 PM
I saw four dings. I imagine you've cleaned it. My (definitely, but still talks to me) ex-sweety has an Arisaka her Daddy brought home (late production, with gross tool marks) which has its Mum and some "brown" stains on the stock.
She is absolutely opposed to cleaning off the "protein stains."
by Justthisguy on February 24, 2005 7:05 PM
Anybody know where "Factory 66" is? My 213 is stamped with a 66 within a triangle; absolutely no Chinese stampings.
by
cowboy blob on February 24, 2005 7:50 PM
I see four hits fer sher... and I expect that on a dark, still night- with the moon glowly softly through the mists swirling about the Redoubt of Castle Arrgh- a somewhat tattered spectre drifts slowly through the halls and chambers... seeking his pistol... [flicker of blue light; rolling crash of thunder] oooooohhh...
by Neffi on February 24, 2005 7:57 PM
Well the Chinese have delt with Albania and Cuba alot. so I say it may be from the Yugoslavian-Kosovo area, or Grenada.
I also see only the 6 dings
by
gunner on February 24, 2005 9:44 PM
I once owned a No 1 Mk III Lee Enfield whose former user had had a very bad day. The forward end of the forestock/handguard and the rear part of the buttstock were completely filled with chunks of ragged metal on the left side. The area not affected corresponded to where a human torso would have protected the stock. Sorta felt creepy holding the rifle and imagining an HE round or grenade going off behind me.
by Robert From NC on February 24, 2005 10:24 PM
Oh, and by the way, I only see 3 hits on the pistol, since the notch in the slide ahead of the slide release is there for takedown purposes, and I'm betting the grip area was covered by the wielder's hand. (Shadowy areas on the grip appear to be logo and lanyard ring)
by Robert From NC on February 24, 2005 10:33 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
January 20, 2005
Gratuitous gun pic.
Since I'm killin' time, waitin' for the time to head to the airport to pick up SWWBO, watchin' CSI on Spike, had too much wine, here's the flip side of the Inglis pic downstream.
The Castle's Hi-Power being shy. Here she is all demure in her stock... out back on the deck.
Y'know, the little bottles of wine (1 liter may be cheap, but it ain't a lot...) but SWWBO's big glasses, well, you can knock down the bottle in only two glasses!
Good thing I've got three hours! Hic!
And for the curious, it's an Aussie wine, Yellow Tail Merlot. $6.25 a bottle at the Class VI. (Military liquor store) Not being much of a wine drinker, I do like the Aussie reds.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Damn it, John!
Now I'm going to have to break open my bottle of wine too!
BTW- I love Yellow Tail, but not the reds. I like the Chardonnay. My fav is just about any Johanisburg Reisling. mmmmm wine buzz heading my way mmmmmm
by AFSister on January 20, 2005 6:42 PM
HAH! Can I call 'em or can I call 'em?
by cw4billt on January 20, 2005 8:15 PM
Okay--you went to all the trouble of disassembling it, artfully arranging it on your (tastefully weathered) deck, waiting until the light was just-so, framing the shot and then downloading and posting the resultant pic for our edification and we can only comment on your bibulosity. I'm sorry.
Hey, John--GREAT LOOKIN' PISTOL, PARD! STEALTH MODE, YEAH!
Better?
by cw4billt on January 20, 2005 10:22 PM
That isn't your foot at the bottom of the pic, is it? :)
I had a Canadian BHP for years, but sold it to a friend. It shot great, but spent too much time at the back of the safe unused. I've got a BDM with the same problem...something about 9-mms. The only Europellet gun I exercise with any regularity is a Glock 19.
by
cowboy blob on January 20, 2005 10:43 PM
Well, Blob, I couldn't exactly use the only non-shod part of the tripod in order to lean over and get a top-down shot, now could I?
by
John of Argghhh! on January 21, 2005 6:09 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
January 19, 2005
Gratuitous Gun Pic
Since I'm pimping Canadian ordnance today - let's go with a little eye-candy.
The Castle's Inglis Hi-Power. A Chinese-contract pistol that never made it to China, having been diverted for use by the Canadian Army. Complete with the Chinese stock-holster, and sporting custom wood grips. On display in the case, he sports his proper black plastic grips.
Hi-res here.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
You forgot to mention the slightly optimistic rear sight settings. Mine went to 500m.
Cheers
JMH
by J.M. Heinrichs on January 19, 2005 12:33 PM
I did a post about that... which I know realize was on the original, now-deceased, blogspot site.
Gosh, guess I'll have to do another one.
But yes, just like the sights on the Artillery Luger, the sights on the Chinese Hi-Powers are, well, a tad optimistic.
by
John of Argghhh! on January 19, 2005 1:45 PM
great pic! if you want grips for that, we're in the business and always willing to try something new!
by hans mahler on January 19, 2005 3:21 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
December 19, 2004
Gratuitious Gun Pic
I had a photo-essay planned for today, but some technical problems (like an unmountable boot sector) are getting in the way. So, while I deal with that, here's a shot of some of the pistols, artillery sights, periscopes, and other optics in the collection of the Arsenal at Castle Argghhh!
Hi-res here.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
John - I want to come play with your toys! You have way more fun toys than I do ;-) (And I've been teased that my husband and I could hold out for weeks in a seige!)
by Barb on December 19, 2004 1:29 PM
Looks exactly like our tent in the Delta. 'Cept cleaner...and not as much ammo...and missing a bunch of grenades...and no c-rat cans...and no snakes...and no 122-slivers sticking in the wall...other than those minor differences, though...
by cw4billt on December 19, 2004 3:23 PM
...ooops--almost forgot the thumb-sized red roaches (at least, I hope you don't have any in the Armory. They bite.)
by cw4billt on December 19, 2004 5:07 PM
No roaches, but the grenades are one section left...
by
John of Argghhh! on December 19, 2004 6:19 PM
Ahhhhh...almost perfect. But I don't suppose the Armoress would appreciate a November '69 centerfold...
by cw4billt on December 19, 2004 7:11 PM
The first weapon I ever fired was a Lugar (the kind with that odd cross-wise barrel-shaped charger on top). I was about 5 or 6, I think, and a favorite uncle took me to the range with him. "Being Jewish," he said, "it's especially fitting that you're learning to shoot with this weapon. Never forget how to use one."
I didn't get it at the time, but I never forgot the thrill of the first shots. I don't remember much else about that time of my life, or even that uncle, but the first few shots with that pistol are still vivid.
And over time I came to understand the comment.
Now, even though it may sound silly, I have to say it gives me the greatest kind of comfort thrill to know there are thousands of small armories like John's all over the country, and tens of thousands of lesser ones. I have relatives who own several hundred rifles, pistols, shotguns, etc. I have friends who have closets _full_ of firearms. I know of a guy who supposedly could arm a Vietnam-era rifle company.
Frankly, nothing makes me feel more secure as a citizen of this country than this. I guess for me it's the constitutional equivalent of a security blanket.
-SangerM
by SangerM on December 19, 2004 8:12 PM
Did someone say "Luger?"
by
John of Argghhh! on December 19, 2004 8:49 PM
That's the one! Wow! Thanks! (and great write up).
by SangerM on December 19, 2004 11:16 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 21, 2004
The answer to the teaser...
Okay. The teaser I posted was pretty tough. A lot of thought went into most of the responses. If you're new to how I do this... *usually* not always, but usually, there are clues in the Arsenal photo album. In this case, the answer was there, as I had already uploaded all the photos while I was still doing a little research to flesh out the post.
It's a tround. From Triangular Round, seen here with a Brit WWI-era .303 MkVIIZ ball round. The Tround was developed by David Dardick, who developed a revolving pistol that could be magzine fed. Yep. A magazine fed revolver (see picture links below)
The tround uses a strong plastic (some sources also assert aluminum-reinforced) cartridge of triangular section. The gun is a revolver, but the chambers are open to the outside. The cylinder was wrapped in a casing (which is why in the picture below it doesn't look like a revolver), except where the cartridge was loaded and the case ejected, similar to the drawing here, from Chinn's series of books on machinegun development (ya want those books or CD if you are into machineguns). That's the innovation that makes it possible; the cartridge drops straight into the chamber through the gap in the casing, rotates in line with the barrel and when fired is supported by both the cylinder and the casing, which in combination act as the more traditional chamber.
Primer view. (click the link, you guys from Sixgunner - I do too know the bullet end from the primer end!)
The Dardick pistols and carbine were produced in Hamden CT, from around 1959-61 There were 3 different pistol models, and a carbine modification.
Model 1100: This came with two interchangeable barrels for the .38 Special and .22 Long Rifle. The barrel lengths were 3.0 inches. It could hold 11 trounds.
Model 1500: This also came with 2 interchangeable barrels for the .38 Special and .22 Long Rifle, but had 6 inch barrels and could hold 15 trounds. I have seen sources which also say the 1500 only carried 11 trounds.
Model 2000: The Model 2000 held 20 rounds.
Rifle Conversion: Remove the barrel and the pistol frame could be fitted into a stocked rifle.
Numrich/Gun Parts Corporation also produced Dardick pistols, but what little info I've found on that indicated they never worked reliably due to manufacturing flaws in cylinder timing.
There are three types of trounds, of which I have two. The first, and the kind I don't have, is really a carrier for the standard cartridge, which slipped into the tround. The second, of which the black one I used in the teaser is one, were purpose-built, with a primer, powder, and bullet integral to the tround. Tround are reloadable. Reloading would have been relatively easy, as there is no case expansion and thus no need for resizing or crimping. Simply replace the primer, load the powder and press the bullet in place. There is an internal cannelure in the case to hold the bullet and provide enough resistance for the initial pressure build to ensure a more complete powder burn and reliable tround-to-tround perfomance - though I have no idea how many times you could reload one.
The example in the Arsenal is a .50 caliber dummy, part of a bunch made for the development of a tround-loaded light machine gun in the late 80's early 90's.
The other tround in the collection is the one which had the most commercial success. It was developed for a drilling device for rock drilling. This is a salesmans sample. Sarco has 'em for sale I believe - they want $100 which is a heckuva lot more than I paid for mine at a gunshow.
Made of clear plastic, it has three ceramic 'bullets' in it, with a common powder charge and primer. To quote from Sarco's website:
Super rare 20mm rock drill cartridge - Dardik's only commercial success. This was a rock drill gun and if drilling hit a snag it shot three ceramic bullets in to the holes to pulverized [sic] the snag.
I think it was Gunner of No Quarters who asked me if I knew anything about trounds. Now you know pretty much all that I do. Sorry if I was a little slow, Gunner!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Thanks for the post, John. I'd always wondered if L. Neil Smith had made up the whole "automatic revolver" thing for his SF novels. You've certainly answered my unasked questions!
by
Nicholas on October 21, 2004 6:06 PM
Zounds, you have dug up a fascinating bit of history here. I love reading about offbeat firearms and rounds. Have you ever run across the Gyrojet? I think I read long ago that it was some type of pistor which fired a rocket-propelled round..
by John Cunningham on October 22, 2004 12:00 AM
Well John, a search of the Castle's archives would have brought to light this and this!
by
John of Argghhh! on October 22, 2004 6:07 AM
Can you direct me to more info on the tround machinegun development in the late 80s that was mentioned?
by Chet on January 3, 2005 1:16 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
April 3, 2004
Mebbe I'm missing something...
But it sounds like the only home this family should be in is jail - not a $250K (Aussiebucks) palace with a hot tub and horse paddocks.
Interesting government thinking out of the box here.
Mebbe *everybody* will behave if we give them a nice house.
Good luck funding that, dudes.
January 28, 2004
New gun p0rn.
Next up for your viewing pleasure is Friedrich Langenhan’s masterpiece*, the “Langenhan Army Model.”
This is a simple blowback-operated semi-auto chambered for the 7.65mm Auto pistol cartridge. It has a four inch barrel and a magazine capacity of 8 rounds. As you can see from the photos (behind the curtain, in the extended post), the barrel is not where we are used to seeing it. The recoil spring lays above the barrel, opposite most semi-auto pistols with which we are familiar. This layout is driven by the way Langenhan handled the breech of his weapon. I don’t know if he used this approach to avoid patent issues, or to simplify some aspects of production (though certainly not the overall complexity).
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows �
The white block is a piece of wood I used to hold the slide back.
The pistol has a separate breechblock that is held in place by a screw. And therein lies it’s great weakness, as you have to be able to remove this screw in order to clean the pistol, so you can’t peen it in place so that it won’t move. Nor, apparently, did it occur to Fred to put a cut-out, a slot, or anything that you could use a pin to hold the screw in place. Granted, that just would have added to complexity – but the user might not have minded. Why am I going on about this? Simple. If you screw/unscrew a screw often enough, you wear the thread, either of the opening, or of the screw. When a screw is loose, and you then add vibration, such as the back-and-forth action of the slide when firing – what happens? The screw can back out.
On this pistol, when that happens, the breech block retainer can pitch up. When that happens, the slide and block are no longer restrained in their backwards movement.
If you are shooting from the hip, not such a big deal – except that your weapon just failed in a firefight. That sucks. If you are actually aiming – the slide comes off the frame, hits you in the face, and now you’ve been hit in the face by your pistol which has just failed in the midst of a firefight. That sucks even worse, though in both cases, it may not suck for very long, depending on how that firefight was going and how many buddies you had with you. Regardless, annoying.
The pistol was only produced during WWI and was never (gee, surprise!) offered for commercial sale. I’ve never shot it. If I did decide to do so, no big deal, you can check the screw while shooting, or put a little dab of rubber cement on the screw before you go out to blaze away. But if you have one of these little jobs, be careful!
*(irony mode ON)
� Secure this line!
January 25, 2004
Next gun in the hopper.
Is an obscure little german automatic from WWI.
by
John
on
Jan 25, 2004
�
Mind of Mog links with:
More Linky Love
January 24, 2004
Okay, here we go with the Type 94.
I'm late, but cut me some slack. I'm busy, I've hurt myself, and this isn't costing you anything anyway... Good news is, while doing this, I did the pics for the next pistol, the Langenhan, so I'll have fewer excuses for that one.
Back to that piece of crap, the Japanese Type 94. This particular pistol is an early production one - when the quality was better. Can't say good. Japanese officers had to purchase their own sidearms, and this chromed pistol was produced specifically for that market. Some people conjecture that these plated pistols were produced for naval officers, but I remain unconvinced of that (any having a source that says otherwise, pass it on!)
This thing is a real pain to take apart and put back together, too.
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows �
Officially known as the Type 94, it's an 8mm caliber semi-auto designed by COL Nambu, the same gentleman who designed the other series of Nambu pistols, which were much better weapons, if still no replacement for the .45!
This thing is 7 inches long and weighs about 2 pounds, and has a 6-round magazine. The design is right up there as almost universally characterized as simply the worst semi-auto pistol design and execution to make it out of the workshop and into the hands of anyone. Colonel Kirijo Nambu (or more correctly in Japanese usage Col. Nambu Kirijo) had already produced the 8mm 4th Year Type A pistol, which didn't sell well as officers considered it too bulky. So he came out with the 7mm Type B (also known as the Baby Nambu) which wasn't much more successful.
His best pistol was the 14th Year pistol, and is the pistol most of us would recognize. Also in 8mm, it is a simplified version of his previous pistols. At this time the Japanese Army was moving over to issuing pistols to NCOs and was looking for ever cheaper models. So, the good Colonel tried to oblige. And then, like the shadow of the US Ordnance Corps over the development of the M16, the Japanese army 'helped' Col Nambu with his pistol.
The slide covers the entire top of the frame and barrel. The pistol is cocked by pulling back on the milled ears at the rear (which until I actually got one of these I always thought that was the hammer). Doing this forced the designer to put the sear bar (which releases the trigger in an exposed position. That long bar on the side that terminates just above the trigger is the sear. Light pressure on that bar - fires the pistol. You could fire it putting it in your holster. You could fire it by flopping down on your holster. So - you didn't carry it with anything up the spout... meaning you gave the other guy the second or so it took to cycle the slide. A second or so in combat can literally be a lifetime.
Well, so what you say? The Luger has the same problem, right? It's true, the sear bar is exposed on the Luger. It is the horizontal bit that runs under the circular knuckle at the rear to then run under the big square bit above the trigger. The big square bit is a shield that prevents just that sort of problem.
The trigger really sucks - it's possible to fire the pistol before the breech is fully locked. The magazine disconnect doesn't work worth a damn - you can still fire the pistol with no magazine in it - it just takes a little more effort... and if you do you run the risk of making if difficult or impossible to get the magazine back in. All problems I want while in the midst of infantry combat. And this is on one of the early, comparatively well built pistols. That late war pistols were just complete dreck.
To make it worse - the intent was to make a pistol cheaper than the other Nambus. It cost more.
No - this is NOT the home defense weapon of choice at Castle Argghhh! The Remington-Rand M1911A1 and Winchester M97 trench gun still hold sway in that arena!
� Secure this line!
by
John
on
Jan 24, 2004
�
Les Jones Blog links with:
Weekly Gun Links #2
January 22, 2004
Gratuitious Gun Pic
This not having my regular computer has really put a crimp in doing gun stuff. I'll be glad when the new one is built!
Anyway - this is all I have time for right now... a teaser. One of the spugliest, poorly made (and this is a GOOD example), badly designed, dangerous to the user pistols to ever get a young officer killed because it was a POS, the Japanese Type 94.
We'll take a deeper look at it tonight.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Well, we would have if I hadn't left the memory chip to the camera at work. Postponed until Friday night, sorry!
by
John of Argghhh! on January 23, 2004 8:34 AM
I have a hypothetical situation. What if a guy wanted to get a nice little automatic pistol but didn't want to spend a fortune. What would be a decent one to start with? ...and where would be the best place to look for said pistol?
by
JD Mays on January 23, 2004 10:43 AM
Truly, one of the ugliest bits of engineering I have ever seen. One shudders to think it might work as poorly as it looks.
by SteveH on January 23, 2004 7:04 PM
It looks like someone welded together components of several different pistols.
by
Sophorist on January 23, 2004 10:27 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
January 18, 2004
Some readers of this space...
...based on recent emails, are concerned that the Imperial Armory is sans pistoles. This is not the case. To quiet the peasants with pitchforks, here are two views of the Armory's stock on handguns. Rather than list what each one is, I will leave that for you, the reader to sort out. The on-line museum will get to them as the Muse seizes me. I'm currently contemplating a bit on the needlegun, or early catridge types, or, by request, the SKS. Not to worry - those of you who answered the poll awhile ago - all that stuff is in the mill!
As you can see, while no where near as extensive as the longarm holdings, there are still a fair number of handguns!
Update (as in May 23, 2007!). I got spanked, in a post over at The Arms Room (okay, in 2006), for my comment down below talking about the safety and thumb-rest grip on the Tokarev. My comment was taken to infer that it was the standard Polish practice. Hey, I was new at blogging back then... let me add now (with my cheek still smarting from the slap) that the safeties were installed (I still say by the Poles) to meet US import requirements, and the handgrips were just a nice touch. There, izzat better, Tamara?
Of course, who knows *how* long it will take to show up in Google...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Pardon me while I drool!
A Mauser, a P-38, is that a Webley? Oh, and a Nagan, if I'm not entirely mistaken (and I probably am)... And so many, many more.
You, my dear Armorer, are the luckiest son-of-a-gun in the Empire!
by
Emperor Misha I on January 20, 2004 8:32 AM
Actually, Boss - there's two Nagants. A double-action and a single action, pre-Great Patriotic War with wood grips and post-war rebuild with plastic grips. And yes, that is a Webley Mk VI in there. Pretty beat-up (the way I like 'em, used) but still perfectly serviceable for goblin-smashing.
by
John of Argghhh! on January 20, 2004 8:37 AM
And a Luger (albeit short-barreled) and an Astra, and what looks like a Hand Ejector. The one just above the Mauser's barrel, with the grip square to the barrel is bugging me. I should know what it is - some .32 or .35 from the early '30s, right?
The one I'd really like to know more about is the 1911 with the shoulder stock and the interesting rear sight.
by
triticale on January 20, 2004 10:26 AM
Triticale's instincts are good, but his details are, well, a little shakier on the ones he doesn't know.
If by the pistol above the barrel of the Mauser you mean the one directly above the Astra 400, that is a Langenhahn "Army Model" in 7.65 Auto Pistol. The pistol has a glaring little defect - the breechblock is separate from the slide and attached with a screw - which got worn in service - when it failed, the slide could recoil free of the frame into the shooter's face. Not a product of the '30s, it was produced only during WWI and never offered for commercial sale.
You're going to kick yourself about the other pistol. It's a Browning Hi-Power, in this case the Inglis-made Mk1No1* in 9mm Para from the Chinese contract, produced in late 1945. The Chinese learned to like the holster stock combo with their Mauser pistols so they continued the trend with the Inglis pistols. The rear site is graduated to a very ambitious 500 meters!
by
John of Argghhh! on January 20, 2004 11:41 AM
Well, I got the caliber right on the one, and the designer of the other. I'd heard of stocked Hi-Powers, and now that I think about it the 1911's grip safety would make stocking it difficult. At least I didn't guess Savage Pocket Pistol for the one, two down from the Browning, with the heavy vertical slots in the slide.
by
triticale on January 20, 2004 3:01 PM
Shoot, I think you did well. And you're right, that isn't a Savage, that's a Polish TT-33 Tokarev. The Poles put safties and thumb rest grips on their pistols. Of all the TT-33 variants (and I've got a Chinese, Soviet, and Polish, and I've also shot the Romanian) I like the Pole the best. Best made, most comfortable, though they are all serviceable pistols.
by
John of Argghhh! on January 20, 2004 3:09 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
December 10, 2003
I don't want one of these.
I don't think it was a particularly good idea to make it, either. Some of you will disagree. So be it! But, it is kinda cool, in an abstract way.
Besides, I owe ya some gun pics.
Thanks to CAPT H for the video.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Given that I work for a cellular company, that is going to get so much play at work tomorrow. I'm going to drag people from the sales department into the RF lab and ask if they can get me one.
Not that I want one, you understand...
by
triticale on December 10, 2003 9:37 PM
Gee, She Who Must Be Obeyed used to work in the telecom industry, too.
by
John of Argghhh! on December 10, 2003 10:09 PM
So, dude - how much productivity did we destroy between us?
by
John of Argghhh! on December 11, 2003 1:19 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 18, 2003
What do you see?
According to a guy in Kim du Toit's email about Lugers what came to mind when he saw a Luger was "...was the image of its barrel pressing against some innocent's head." Hmmm. While I can understand his point, I see something different.
I see one pistol that encapsulates German military experience from the Great War to the reintegration of East Germany. Yes, from this picture I can tell this weapon spans the whole era. How, at a glance?
He has imperial proofs, aluminum base magazine, and the trigger is hot blued, not strawed (strawed is when the steel is in-the-white with some color from heat treating). More pics behind the curtain, even if I don't feel like blogging in a lascivious manner today. I'll do that tomorrow, with the DP-28 post.
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows �
Okay, back to Herman, here. He started life in 1918 being made at the facilities of Deutsche Waffen-und-Maschinefabrik, DWM for short. The german translates to "German Weapons and Machines Factory". He has a middlin' serial number, in the 6XXX range, meaning he was made early enough to have gotten issued. All his numbers match, btw.
At this point in his life, he would have had two matching magazines, with wooden bottoms, marked with his s/n and a number 1 and number 2.
Can't tell if he got much use during the Reichswehr and early Nazi era. Since the germans were still producing the Luger for military issue, he probably did. He also would have been dressed with nice checkered wooden grips.
At some point during the Nazi era, probably during the war, he was brought in for a little work.
How do I know? This is where the aluminum magazine bottom showed up. He in fact got new magazines, with Nazi waffenamt stamps (acceptance marks), and the magazines were numbered to his s/n. He might have picked up the new plastic grips then, too. But probably not. If he'd been shot much, he probably got a new barrel, but that's hard to tell. Herman's barrel has imperial proofs, but there were lots of those around, they aren't numbered, and the Nazi and East German government used 'em when rebuilding. As they were already proofed, why mark 'em again?
So, the Reich crumbled, and fell into two pieces. Herman, either as a transfer from Russia or Poland, or as a result of stocks extant in East Germany, got one last rebuild for issue to the Volks Polizei.
That's certainly the latest point he would have got his black plastic grips, and it is guaranteed when he got hot dip blued all over... except for the safety bar, which is still in the white, and the ejector spring, which got varnished. I believe that's because the tempering process for those two parts can be affected by the temperatures involved in hot dip blueing, or some such. Anyone who knows, leave a comment!
Anyway, that what I see when I look at Herman. A microcosm of german military fortunes in the last century. Like many veterans of Germany's adventuring, he eventually emigrated to the United States, where he lives in a Alte Waffen Home, with lots of past acquaintences and former enemies.
� Secure this line!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Being lugar dumb I notice in the first picture it seems you can see the pink cloth through the frame above the grips, yet in the last it looks like it is solid? Glare?
by Gunner on October 18, 2003 7:10 PM
1. Gunner. You ain't dumb. Stop that!
2. What looks like the cloth peeking through is actually the varnished extractor I talk about in the post. It's white steel with a varnish over it, that in the color saturation of the picture looks the same color as the cloth background.
3. You ain't dumb!
by
John of Argghhh! on October 18, 2003 7:52 PM
Can we see an M-60 next? please please please???
Jennifer Martinez sends
by
Jennifer Martinez on October 18, 2003 8:34 PM
Well, I'm sure I can find pics of one, but I don't own one. So that might take a while. I do promise a DP-28 tomorrow, though!
by
John of Argghhh! on October 18, 2003 8:42 PM
The word waffenamt meaning ??
by Katzz on November 30, 2003 10:41 AM
Waffen: Weapons
Amt: Office
Weapons Office is the literal translation. It is an inspectors stamp. You'll see variations of the eagle, depending on the year and sometimes the inspector, usually associated with a number, like WaA617, which identifies the inspector who passed the part or whole weapon.
by
John of Argghhh! on November 30, 2003 10:56 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 13, 2003
Glock fun! Gun movie instead of a pic.
Here's a movie for you guys who like your firearms a little newer than WWII, with a nod to Vietnam.
This thing would be expensive to feed, but seems remarkably controllable, all things considered. You'd be close to invincible in a one-on-one, and probably scare the hell out of anyone in a one-on-one+x fight.
Ya'd need lots of practice, to make sure you had good fire discipline so you didn't get popped changing magazines.
Gee, izzat a bad thing? Lotsa practice? Not if someone else is paying the fodder bill.
It's almost enough to make me wanno get a Class III license. Can't get one any other way unless you're a cop or military, as they weren't available pre-86 dang-it-all!
Though I suspect if I were cops, I'd think twice about issuing these as a standard side-arm. It might tempt the goblins to ambush cops to get a couple. Since I don't run on that side of the fence, I have no idea how hard these are to get otherwise.
UPDATE: The Emperor has approved (see comment below). All LC's may now procure the new Glock Imperator for use in service of the Rottweiler Empire.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
A full-auto Glock? FUN!!!
Yeah, I know... Accuracy, schmaccuracy, who gives a fuck with an ROF like that? Not to mention the surprised look on the goblins' faces when you open up on them.
by
Emperor Misha I on October 13, 2003 10:05 AM
I want one!
by
Corey on October 13, 2003 2:04 PM
To fast to count the shots but was that the 15rd magazine? I have seen some bizzare 25+rd magazines that would go with it better.
Still would rather have a nice Israeli made micro Uzi.
by Gunner on October 13, 2003 9:03 PM
Actually, me too, if I was going to go for a pistol-sized subgun. I also like the Skorpion, but that really is a tiny bullet.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 14, 2003 6:36 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Oct 13, 2003
�
Les Jones Blog links with:
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