June 10, 2008
So, whattaya do...
Yer rich, your businesses are doing well, you aren't yet a hermit living in a hotel in Las Vegas and there's all this war surplus laying around - what's a feller to do?
Simple enough. You go all "Junkyard Wars" and build a heavy lift helo from spare parts laying around. The Hughes XH-17.

Your front wheels came from a B-25 Mitchell and the rear wheels from a C-54 Skymaster. The fuel tank is a bomb bay-mounted unit from a B-29 Superfortress. You get a cockpit from a Waco CG-15 and the tail rotor from a Sikorsky H-19. You set a record that still holds for the largest rotor system in the world... as well as about the most inefficient.
The propulsion system used two turbojet engines. But not very efficiently. You fired 'em up and then sent bleed air up through the rotor hub. The blades were hollow, and the very hot compressed air traveled through the blades to burners at the tips where fuel was injected. Got that? We've got two turbojet engines burning to provide hot, compressed air to flow through the blades where fuel is injected into burners (virtual ramjets, I guess) in the tips of the blades to spin 'em. The rotors spun at a dawdling 88 rpm. This did have the benefit of reducing torque - and allows for that comparatively small tail rotor. Only one of these things was built - and one reason might be that while it could lift 15 metric tons, it had a range of 40 miles, what with all that fuel burning to such little effect...
So, Bill - how'd it fly? Because it *did* fly.
If you've got the software, and would like to fly one yourself... click here.
H/t CAPT H for a pointer to the Wikipedia article.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
So, Bill - how'd it fly?
Lemme get the hangar spinning at 88rpm and I'll let you know...
by
BillT on June 10, 2008 9:59 AM
Reminds me of the Navy's silliness with pressure-fired boilers. It did eventually dawn on them that they could eliminate the boiling-water part of the cycle and just have the hot gases spin the shaft.
I do wonder what a turbo-compound Diesel, as used in the Draka tanks, would sound like.
by
Justthisguy on June 10, 2008 3:55 PM
Ask and ye shall receive: the LeClerc running the Hyperbar engine. And at the Tank Show.
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on June 10, 2008 11:44 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
April 24, 2008
Doggone Apache Pilots Have All The Luck
Well, *some* Apache pilots do, as John noted in yesterday's H&I.
Of course, the *Cobra* pilots (yeah, yeah, okay, I'm the only one -- sue me) of the SugarButtons Brigade Aviation Battalion have a few incentives to keep current, too.
The SBB Armament Section, for one. And I sure couldn't fly very far without the selfless devotion of my fuel handlers. Of course, since the dreaded AH-1F is a flying *crew*-served weapons system, I'd be just plain foolhardy to slip the surly bonds of earth solo and deprive myself of the services of my highly-trained, exceptionally-skilled gunner.
Ah-*heh*...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
she has big guns and is apparently very happy to see you.
by
kat-missouri on April 24, 2008 4:01 AM
Yup. It's that whole 27-inch zipper deal...
by
BillT on April 24, 2008 4:12 AM
Ah, finally some pictures.
Carry on.
by
Ledger on April 24, 2008 4:27 AM
Heh. Ordering me to *carry on* is like ordering John to expand the Arsenal...
by
BillT on April 24, 2008 5:14 AM
Sure, she may be highly-skilled and exceptionally endowed, but by the looks of her she must be HIGH MAINTENANCE.
***Does my MOLLE Gear Make Me Look Fat?***
***Oh My Gawwwd - Like, I went to the Latrine Last Night and - Like - Staring Me Down was - Like - the Biggest Camel Spider... - Eeewwww - Gross!****
***When will KBR start bringing skinny cherry yogurt, at the PX?****
On & On & On.... High Maintenance I tell ya!
Instead Rin-Tin, right here just needs a good belly rub, and a few Milk-Bones once in a while, and he's like butter in your hands.
by Boquisucio on April 24, 2008 9:26 AM
Rinty would work okay as a doorgunner, Boq, but ya need opposable thumbs to work the TSU and the MCP to keep the TOW within post-launch constraints.
Hey! I said *con*straints, not *re*straints...
[patiently awaiting inevitable pert-nose-outta-joint *flounce*]
by
BillT on April 24, 2008 9:35 AM
That's quite a crew, some enormous skill-sets there...
by SFC D on April 24, 2008 11:30 AM
The number one weapon against Islamic extremists: scantily dressed women firing weapons.
It is like soca and pop rocks. Mix the two and "boom"..heads explode. LOL
by kat-missouri on April 24, 2008 11:47 AM
Oh yeah, and let's not forget about Rin-tin's Crew Chief: SSG Blue. He's a bit camera shy, but boy, as many odes to his honor can attest, he sure has other skill sets.
by Boquisucio on April 24, 2008 12:00 PM
*con*straints, *re*straints...it's all good.
by
HomefrontSix on April 24, 2008 12:16 PM
Oooooo... bad trigger discipine!
by Mike47 on April 24, 2008 1:24 PM
Trigger discipline?
Must...not...make...obvious...shooting joke...
*prying fingers from keyboard*
by
Damian on April 24, 2008 1:55 PM
Snort: one new photo ...
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on April 24, 2008 3:15 PM
Snort: one new photo ...
*sigh* You have *no* idea how difficult it is to get them to hold still long enough for a decent pic...
by
BillT on April 24, 2008 4:34 PM
kinda hard to get a look at the aircraft with all those women of questionable character standing in the way.
by
jim b on April 24, 2008 4:38 PM
Finally... a rational man! ;)
by
FbL on April 24, 2008 7:36 PM
Can't you see, Fuzzy, that we men are all Dogs?
by Boquisucio on April 24, 2008 7:44 PM
Finally... a rational man!
jim b was complaining that the mass of pulchritude obscured the pinup chick painted on the Apache, FuzzBee...
by
BillT on April 25, 2008 3:57 AM
Heh. Ordering me to *carry on* is like ordering John to expand the Arsenal... -Bill
And, a job well done.
Keep up the good work soldier.
by
Ledger on April 25, 2008 5:53 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Apr 24, 2008
March 19, 2008
*Tap-tap-tap* Is this thing on?
19 Feb: Departed Philly for Atlanta, hooked up at ATL with the newbies I was to Father Goose into Iraq. Amused myself with fruitless attempts to access the "free" wireless net service.
20 Feb: Arrived Amsterdam, had a boring layover (terminal renovation in progress). Eight hours and four Time Zones later, arrived in Kuwait, got 90-day visa and hooked up with the LSA reps at 1830. Sent us to the USAF side to sit on concrete T-barriers for four hours, then got the bus for Ali al-Salem, which we could have caught from the terminal on the civilian side after spending four hours sitting in padded armchairs. Turned in 90-day visa and passport for outprocessing at Ali and got a tent for the next two days. Dust storm all night and most of the next day, tent canvas thumped like a clipper ship's sails in a gale – lucky me drew a corner cot so I received the full benefit of thwup-thoomp from two sides *and* the rogue fuh-WHAP charging through the storm flap without slowing one iota.
And that was the last entry in my ‘lectronic diary. The battery in this particular HP laptop is only good for about an hour – which I didn’t find out until *after* I brought it to Pakistan last year, but KtLW insisted it was a good deal (hey, it was on sale, and the Luddite Wife would buy Ebola-laced mouthwash if it was marked down 50%) – and I’d already shipped my transformer and adapter collection via DHL.
Meantime, aside from the week-late editions of Stars ‘n’ Stripes we get up here (mebbe a tad more than a week late – the Sunday edition features Calvin and Hobbes), I’ve been keeping up with the civil side of progress over here via a PAO-type at DA, of all places. I don't normally shill for the HeadShed, but these are some Big Picture Things you won’t get from the MSM:
-- The U.S. Army has rehabilitated and constructed nearly 1,100 schools, providing classrooms for more than 324,000 students.
-- By early 2009, Army projects will have completed 137 new primary healthcare centers that will serve a population of 5 to 6.5 million Iraqis.
-- An estimated 4.1 million more Iraqis now have access to clean, drinkable water that they didn't have before. [Two of my stoon'ts said they were surprised to find out that water was *supposed* to be clear]
-- Cities like Fallujah have their first sewage treatment plant. Before 2003, raw sewage in most of Iraq was discharged into rivers and waterways. [I can vouch that the one up here is operational]
Got a neat vid, too.
Aaaaand, to bring everybody up to date on the mil side, go see John’s post from yesterday.
Go ahead – I’ll wait.
All done? Okay, to continue: first, the Good News.
We got a new blast wall for our bunker!

Now, it may not seem like much to you, but it’s the simple, quotidian things that make a hootch a home.
Now, the Bad News.
We needed it.

Heh. No, I didn’t just give the dirtbags a free BDA, it’s been a while since I took the pic. I mean, you wouldn’t expect me to stay someplace that’s actually *dangerous*, would you? Besides, my Iraqi neighbors are a nice, quiet bunch who don’t throw loud parties after dark – I wouldn’t want them all upset by an increase in the local noise factor.
ANYway, you guys don’t come visiting just to see if I’ve developed a sudden case of common sense, so I’d better get down to something serious or John will dock my pay.
Again.
Sooooo -- Whatziss?

That oughta keep John off my case for a couple of hours. In the meantime, while he’s burning up bandwidth googling "thingies that have threaded receptacles,” meet Hubert, 21st Century version. The Huey II.

Despite the cosmetics, such as the radar altimeter, ECCM suite, wirecutters (sorry – I meant to say Wire Strike Protective System, which are those, uh, wirecutters top and bottom of the cockpit), GPS, upgraded nav-comm avionics package, Cobra engine, drive train and tranny, exhaust diverter, additional cooler intakes in the tailboom and IqAF desert cammy paint job, it’s the same plain-vanilla UH-1H that served as the foundation for most of my TINS.
BTW, if anybody (or anybody’s – * sigh * – dad) flew 68-16473 in the Land of the Two-Way Gunnery Range, that’s what the ol’ girl looks like today. Hi-rez here, for us fling-wing grognards.
Ooooops – short-term memory lapse alibi. There’s something * else * different (ever so slightly) from the RVN config. I’ll wait while you try to figure it out.
Come to think of it, I’ll wait until tomorrow.
If our sat-link doesn’t crap out.
Heh – it’ll give John *another* reason to hope the bottle rocketeers take the night off…
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Nice wire cutters. Where are the armaments?
by
Ledger on March 19, 2008 5:18 AM
Mounted on a pintle just forward of the crew well.
In non-Aviator terms, sticking in front of the crewchief's bench seat (the area with all the kewl gear piled on it).
Easiest way to find it is in the Hi-Rez pic -- go straight down from the rotor head, then hang a slight left when you hit the opening the cargo door *isn't* covering because it's open.
Durn thumbnails turned out 'way smaller than I'd planned...
by
BillT on March 19, 2008 6:14 AM
Hhhmmm......I was going to say they put the tail rotor on the wrong side....but that's a function of the AH-1 drive train. Other than a gun mount with something hanging on it, I can't figure out what Bill is talking about?
68-16473...UH'1H purchased 11/69....Arrived RVN December 1969 and assigned to A Co 123 Avn Bn, Americal Division.
History of the B Co and the 123 Avn Bn is here From Aug 68 until Dec 71 A/123 flew 69,713 hours total.
473 remained with A/123 until November 1971, flying 2033 hours in RVN with no major incidents recorded that I can find.
She returned Stateside in January 1972 and went through ARADMAC for repair/upgrades.
August 1972 assigned to 6th Army at Ft. Carson and remained there with various units through 1975. In Jan 1976 she had flown a total of 2659 hours........last known duty station I can find is the 4th Inf Div at Ft. Carson, but she likely ended up with a Guard unit somewhere.
Gotta love a well seasoned airframe.....she's already cracked everywhere she's gonna....
by R. Jewell on March 19, 2008 9:02 AM
Bill,
Isn't that one of those "I stuck my head in the sand so long the sand turned to concrete" Code Pink/George Soros anti-American holes to hide in?
by AFSister on March 19, 2008 11:23 AM
Iraqi toilet
by kat-missouri on March 19, 2008 11:58 AM
Today, my Google-fu is weak. I've got some working hypotheses, but thus far, with the limited googling I've been able to do - no one has pics that show the part of the gizmo I'm looking for!
Of course, it could be a left-handed frammitz mount for the jeeberfloogle.
by
John of Argghhh! on March 19, 2008 12:57 PM
...it could be a left-handed frammitz mount for the jeeberfloogle.
Nope. The jeeberfloogle on this model sits abaft the nomalie fitting.
by
BillT on March 20, 2008 1:13 AM
Iraqi toilet
Nope. I still have *some* standards. Not a whole lot, I'll grant you -- but *some*...
by
BillT on March 20, 2008 1:16 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Mar 19, 2008
February 22, 2008
Someone you should know... but probably don't.

Frank Piasecki
Aviation pioneer Frank Piasecki, inventor of the tandem-rotor helicopter used in troop-transport missions and land and sea rescue flights, died Monday (11 Feb). He was 88.
Igor Sikorski was the first American to build a helicopter - Frank Piasecki was the second. His were more interesting, in the end (sorry, Igor, but hey, you'll always have the Illya Muromets!).
Born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to an immigrant Polish tailor, Piąsecki worked for autogyro manufacturers while still in high school. With his college buddy Howard Venzie he founded a small aeronautical company, Piasecki Helicopter. He built a single-person, single-rotor helicopter designated the PV-2 and test-flew it on April 11, 1943. This helicopter impressed the US Navy sufficiently to win Piasecki a development contract.
We know him because Piąsecki invented the concept of the tandem bladed helos. After the war, Piąsecki received a contract to build several military prototypes and this design principle came to be used in a number of helicopters that were very successful in both military and civilian use. These include the Piasecki H-21 (better known as the Flying Banana), which entered service in the 1950s, the Boeing Vertol CH-46 Sea Knight, and the CH-47 Chinook.
Piasecki eventually left Piasecki Helicopter Co. In 1955, he formed Piasecki Aircraft Corp. to continue exploring new technology. Piasecki Helicopter became Vertol Aircraft Corp. and was acquired by Boeing in 1960. Boeing still makes the Chinook and Sea Knight helicopters.
Apparently not one to slow down, a 88 Frank was still chief executive of Piasecki Aircraft, and testing is under way on his latest innovation. Seeking a new idea to replace the tail rotor of single rotor designs like the Blackhawk, the Speed Hawk helicopter has a rear-facing ducted propeller designed to improve stability and forward speed.

The music may be a little different for the non-veterans we honor here at the Castle, but now is the time at Castle Argghhh! when we dance: In Memoriam, for Frank Piasecki, whose aircraft (including the Flying Banana) I've flown in, and upon whose ideas America's warriors still rely - as illustrated in the pictures that accompany this post. I'm guessing over in the Rotary Wing section of Fiddler's Green, there's a seat for Frank.
H/t, Mike L.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
A old helicopter pilot told me Helicopters don't fly they beat the air into submission
by Spanky on February 22, 2008 8:54 PM
Dang! Seems like _Everybody_ gets to stop at Fiddler's Green, these days.
Is it just undistinguished sinners like me who have to go straight to hell?
by
Justthisguy on February 24, 2008 12:35 AM
Oh, and Mr. Kaman built even weirder hellafloppers, and was that rarest of critters, an honest gummint contractor. (Which may have lost him the next contract) Did some musical innovations with the Ovation guitars, too.
by
Justthisguy on February 24, 2008 12:46 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 31, 2007
For What It's Worth...
...you've seen me give hat-tip credit for the atrocious puns and oddball jokes with which V29 and Doc E bombard me (thereby reinforcing my rep as a real stand-up, albeit strait-laced, individual) and you've "met" V29 via his semifrequent comments and the TINS Times Two we tag-teamed on a while back.
So, I figger it's time to introduce Doc E.

He's the guy on the left who forgot his sunblock. And, yes, he really *is* a doctor (even though he's never played one on TV), or, more precisely, he's now a *retired* doctor. But he prefers playing with his 'puter to playing with golf sticks -- he's a hi-tech hobbyist who's translated some of his pix from the Ol' Days into some YouTube vids, and I think you'll find his most recent effort a bit thought-provoking.
I'll link it after this caveat: although the pix and music are work-safe, there's a picture at the 6:35 mark you might want to view alone, or forego viewing altogether.
It's a shot of one of our cockpits after a typical day suddenly became a really bad one. The pilot was from my platoon.
It's a reminder that there's a price tag on freedom.
And so long as we would have freedom, there will be a price upon it, and so long as there is a price, there must be those willing to give what is asked, or we will no longer have freedom. Now transfer the image of that Huey cockpit to the interior of a Hummer or a sandbag checkpoint...
We're a fortunate people to have among us those who have given what was asked. We have the freedom for which they have paid -- and continue to pay.
It's only fair that we return them something in the way of repayment, isn't it?
Valour-IT: for what it's worth...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
G'Day John,
I visit your blog probably not as often as I should, but reasonably often.
Sadly, there have been a couple of quite recent Aussie casualties in Afghanistan.
Yes, there is a price tag on freedom.
Lest We Forget.
by
Phil on October 31, 2007 5:02 AM
I didn't look away, Bill. It's the least I can do to honor the men who died.
Thanks to Doc E for putting that together. It's a perfect reminder of the importance of Project Valour-IT.
by
Barb on October 31, 2007 10:40 AM
The caveat was for the kids who wander in, Barb. Castlekin have tougher psyches.
by
BillT on October 31, 2007 5:01 PM
Thanks! You say the sweetest things :-)
by
Barb on October 31, 2007 7:05 PM
Well, the Doc is striking a noble Napoleonic pose there. What I wanna know, is the name of the guy in the silly conical hat, showing his tummy.
Bill?
P.s. I can't see Youtube vids on this ancient system. Are the images of which you write available as stills someplace?
by
Justthisguy on October 31, 2007 10:07 PM
...the name of the guy in the silly conical hat
JTG -- That'd be WO1 Leroy Dike, is my guess (the pic was taken after I left). The 55-gallon drum structure is our above-ground bunker (the water table was nine inches below the surface), which would withstand direct hits from 81mm mortars, but not from 122mm rockets. The background hootch looks like one of the wooden barracks they built after yours truly had departed for the Land of the Big PX.
by
BillT on November 1, 2007 7:30 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Oct 31, 2007
October 26, 2007
The howitzer at Rucker...
CAPT H suggested the gun was sitting in a Choctaw.

Nope. It was in a Mohawkve [grumble - geez, I did link to a pic of same meaning I really did *know* it, he sniveled.]. A beast of a bird with two piston engines in nacelles standing out from the fuselage.
I feel old. I've flown in one of these. Okay, I was 7 or 8. Still....
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
It's no source of shame to be corrected by an expert.
The H-37 is a splendid machine to look at. I have no idea how they were to fly or fly in, but as an 11-year old I cherished my toy one and stuffed it full of plastic soldiers. I was going to guess a Huey yesterday, although that would have been anachronistic for the 75.
My own first helicopter ride was in an H-21 in the summer of '67. Much more fun than walking in the dust of Indiantown Gap!
by Jeff Cornelius on October 26, 2007 11:46 AM
Expert??????
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on October 26, 2007 12:07 PM
That is Definitely not a Mohawk! A Mohawk is a twin turboprop fixed wing 'spy' plane.
That is a Mojave:
http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aahist.htm#CH37
Here is the illustrious OV-1 Mohawk of cold war fame and way too many TINSs
http://www.ov-1mohawk.org/
"Alone, Unarmed, and Scared spit-less"
by Nosmo on October 26, 2007 1:52 PM
[rolls eyes]
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2007 2:45 PM
A Mohawk you say? I PITY THE FOOL!
by MR. T's Haircut on October 26, 2007 3:33 PM
I don't think so...OV1D Mohawk was a fixed wing twin-turboprop observation type...my recollection is a picture with FLIR pod installed. Love your site. Check it almost daily. LF
http://www.carolinasaviation.org/collections/aircraft/ov1d-62-5890.html
by Larry Fountain on October 26, 2007 5:02 PM
Larry and Jeff got it. The H-37 is the Mojave (a Sikorsky critter) and the OV-1D is the Mohawk (made by Grumman).
I can see how John got confused, though -- Grumman's Bethpage plant was right across LI Sound from Sikorsky's Stratford facility...
by
BillT on October 26, 2007 5:11 PM
Oh fiddle, I knew it was Mohave, I was in a rush this morning, dammit. I hadda pack so that I could sprint (okay, waddle) from the TOC to the car to the airport - and had slow access. I'da fixed it myself if I hadn't been busy TOC'ing!
Sigh.
I *hate* days like this.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2007 6:12 PM
History of the Grumman OV-1
“Martin Baker Mk 5 ejection seats – the 1st Army aircraft to use ejection seats”
Is this true?
by
Ledger on October 26, 2007 8:31 PM
...the 1st Army aircraft to use ejection seats”
Is this true?
Indeed it is. All previous Army fixed-wing aircraft were slow (and stable) enough to allow the pilots to exit through the cockpit door -- the OV-1D had a bubble canopy and was *fast* -- and putting ejection seats in a helicopter would be a wasted effort, for obvious reasons.
Besides, if they stuck ejection seats in fling-wings, then they'd have to give us parachutes -- and those things are *expensive*, ya know...
by
BillT on October 27, 2007 12:09 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 25, 2007
Continuing the "What's wrong with this pic?" meme...
Here's a another shot of the Boeing 347 down at Rucker, this time from the flank. There's your turbine nacelles, NinjaFluff - though, as I noted in the comments other post, they're empty.

Larger version can be had here.
Now here's one that will turn a few heads around here - though I'm sure the Vulture Brothers are familiar with it.

Who knew the Army operated the RP-2E - a variant of the only purpose-built anti-submarine bomber the US fielded (The others were derived from transport aircraft...)? It is also the last piston-engined bomber to be delivered into US service, or so I understand.
These aircraft were flown by an Army electronic warfare unit in Vietnam - the 1st Radio Research Company , aka the- "Crazy Cats" - from 1967 to 1972. That was news to me... and you can see a larger version here.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Woo, Nacelles! Thanks, Armorer for that side shot. I've got a question about the RP-2E you've got shown here... I'm not able to find anything about this one, but I did manage to find something about an AP-2E. Is this the same aircraft, or just a different variant? This one is also at Ft. Rucker in Alabama. Here's the link I've found: http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/lockheed/ap-2e.htm
by NinjaFluff on October 25, 2007 8:46 AM
I believe the S-2 and S-3 were purpose bult ASW. I think the C-1 and E-1 are actually a devivative of the S-2, not the other way around. The S-2 had an internal bomb bay, although I'm not sure about the S-3 so maybe the devil in the details is whether you would actually call them a bomber or not.
NinjaFluff, there's a nice little write up on the AP-2H here
There were so many one off mods done on older airframes for Viet Nam I'm not sure if anyone can
keep track of which ones went where...
by
Pogue on October 25, 2007 9:02 AM
Forward and Aft blades don't intermesh because of the increased height of the aft pylon.
That would have increased Bill's "comfort level"
Wings would have made great rocket pod mounts, ala Guns-A-Go-Go........
Throw in some Naphalm canisters on the wings, so you didn't have to roll drums of Phu-Gas with thermites wired to them off of the ramp.......
I'm an old "Hooker", but didn't know this aircraft existed either.
Perhaps the "wings" being present upset the Air Force?
by R Jewell on October 25, 2007 12:04 PM
Wait a minute! Martin built a dedicated ASW piston-(and jet)powered airplane, too. I think that Steeljaw did a feature about it on his blog, with purty pictures!
It was built when the unbelievably cranky Glenn Martin was still alive. (Y'all should look up the Glenn Martin chicken(duck?)-feed stories.)
by
Justthisguy on October 25, 2007 7:48 PM
NinjaF - based on the tail number, your link is to the same aircraft. The site you link to is wrong, I believe. The RP-2E (I believe that's the correct Army designation) was used for electronic warfare purposes, not air support.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 25, 2007 7:58 PM
Doesn't the R prefix usually mean some kind of recon mission for the aircraft? Like the RC-135 'Cobra Ball', etc.?
by ry on October 25, 2007 10:17 PM
This aircraft is yet another Army attempt to build something to fly that has a fixed wing fighter capability that they can get away with without offending he Air Force's sensibilities.
Yawn.
by
jim b on October 25, 2007 10:34 PM
Well, Ry, it does for the Air Force.
The record on the web is contradictory - with AP-2E having the pre-ponderance that I've found.
This site seems to have the most comprehensive listing with explanations, and supports the "RP" designation.
The National Security Agency, which was the real tasker of the aircraft, on their website also refers to them as RP-2E's - as laid out in the link in the post:
Finally, a truly special unit was formed and deployed to Vietnam using Army pilots, Army ASA mission operators on board a Navy P-2V Neptune four-engine aircraft. This Army project was a significant leap in both mission coverage and overall mission capability. As with most of the other platforms, these aircraft were redesignated specifically as RP-2E aircraft with an associated mission project name of CEFLIEN LION or CRAZY CAT.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 25, 2007 10:35 PM
Shipmates,
Well, having flown aboard the P-2V, I can tell you one thing. It always smelled of JP and avgas. There was usually oil somewhere, and getting from the aft to the flight station was always interesting, having to use a crawl space over the wing.
It was a tad noisy, but fun to be aboard.
The P-3 Orion (where most of my 5K hours came) was derived from the Lockheed Electra airliner. The P-3 is a GREAT airframe, very strong, highly maneuverable, with a long range and good weapons load out. However, it is a beast in turbulence, it's wings not flexing like other large planes do.
The S-3 Viking was designed purely as an ASW platform and was later expanded to multi-task as a bomber, recon, and tanker.
respects,
by AW1 Tim on October 26, 2007 11:14 AM
But for serious ASW flying, the Argus.
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on October 26, 2007 12:11 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 24, 2007
So, what's wrong with this picture?
I don't think we can blame Bill, though I'm working on it.

Nope, it's not a Chinook parked in front of an engineless C-17.
And there's something else funny about it.
Slightly larger pic available here.
Bill can't play, except to provide appropriate misdirection and snark. You snipe-hunters will have to do it on your own.
Ready, set, Google!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Rear rotor's got an extra blade.
by
Heartless Libertarian on October 24, 2007 5:24 AM
All I can say after seeing this and the last one is ..less is more.
by
Trias on October 24, 2007 5:27 AM
It's a 347. All helicopters are funny so, that isn't much of a clue.
by Fred on October 24, 2007 7:09 AM
Yeah, Fred - but most people don't know about the 347.
And HL only got it half right - both rotors are 4 bladed, though the angle on the pic makes it hard to see that.
I didn't know about the 347 until I saw it on Sunday. If you're used to Chinooks, it's an eyecatcher when you first see it, especially nose-on.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 24, 2007 7:44 AM
I don't think we can blame Bill...
Oh, go ahead. Maybe I'll get a job offer from DARPA.
by
BillT on October 24, 2007 8:06 AM
So am I supposed to believe that rotors on the 347 don't leave shadows?
by homebru on October 24, 2007 8:15 AM
I dunno... all the pics I can find of the 347 seem to have some small jet engine lookin' things on the rear pylon... since this is a nose-on pic, they may be obstructed. Kind of hard to tell.
by NinjaFluff on October 24, 2007 8:19 AM
it looks funny, ergo it must be French.
by MajMike on October 24, 2007 8:26 AM
...all the pics I can find of the 347 seem to have some small jet engine lookin' things on the rear pylon...
They're *turbine* engines, Ninj (tsk -- jet engines on a helicopter -- what a ridiculous idea). Between the pitch of the wings and the stretched fuselage, the engine nacelles are masked. The wings even hide 'em when you're looking from the front quarter.
by
BillT on October 24, 2007 9:14 AM
It looks funny, ergo it must be Barnum and Bailey.
by AFSister on October 24, 2007 10:06 AM
I gotta go with homebru on this one. Not only that but the splotch on the front rotor looks exactly like the splotch on the pictures of the 347 at Fort Rucker at http://www.chinook-helicopter.com/history/aircraft/A_Models/65-07992/65-07992.html
This helicopter looks to be in much better repair and a darker color than the Fort Rucker helicopter while the rotors are the same color.
by NevadaDailySteve on October 24, 2007 11:27 AM
Funny lookin' bugger, ain't she? I remember asking MacGyver what the he!! that was when we first got to Rucker. I love that museum...they have the coolest stuff in there!
by
HomefrontSix on October 24, 2007 1:36 PM
All the proper shadows are there, they're just hard to see.
It *is* the Rucker machine. When they built the new museum and rearranged the external displays, they painted many of the aircraft.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 24, 2007 2:11 PM
Okay, duh, one of a kind. Sometimes it takes awhile. Are the tie down straps as invisible as the shadows? I don't think I'd want to be close to that thing in a windstorm.
by NevadaDailySteve on October 24, 2007 3:08 PM
Tie-down straps? We don't need no steenkeng tie-down straps!
by
John of Argghhh! on October 24, 2007 3:32 PM
It's a hauler, so no weapons were ever mounted to be missing... No evidence of fire, so that means Bill hasn't flown it... Can't see the innards, so we don't know if it's stripped out in the inside...
Wait, is this a trick? Is the "something funny" even about the equipment, or is it more in line of the story behind this beast?
by NinjaFluff on October 24, 2007 4:23 PM
NinjaFluff - to those of us who have been around Chinooks, the 4 bladed rotors are enough - but when you add the wing to it... and reference your first comment - yes, it does have twin jets on the rear pylon, like all Chinooks - though on this particular bird, the engine pods are empty. She's not completely stripped, but she's certainly not anytime-soon airworthy.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 24, 2007 4:27 PM
Ahh, I see now... the standard Chinooks only have three blades, where this one has 4. Now I understand what you meant when you told HL he was half right!
by NinjaFluff on October 24, 2007 4:31 PM
Ahh, I see now... the standard Chinooks only have three blades, where this one has 4. Now I understand what you meant when you told HL he was half right!
by NinjaFluff on October 24, 2007 4:34 PM
Looks like that Chithook tried to grow up and grow wings like a respectable aircraft
by
jim b on October 24, 2007 9:01 PM
Jim B ~ Nah...it was just slumming.
by
HomefrontSix on October 25, 2007 2:06 AM
...So it's the wings, right? :)
by
Casey Tompkins on October 25, 2007 2:53 AM
Are the front rotors supposed to scrape against the top of the wing - or is that just the angle of the picture?
by
Ledger on October 25, 2007 4:04 AM
Ledger, most all hellaflopper rotors are floppy and flappy, and loosely jointed, and this is one of the many things which scare normal people who have to ride in one of those gizmos.
by
Justthisguy on October 25, 2007 9:53 PM
P.s.
I am not a normal person. I would have perfect confidence in Chief Bill's transporting me in a helicopter. I'd like to have a somewhat younger co-pilot along, just in case the Chief dropped dead or something, but, yeah, the fun would be worth the risk.
by
Justthisguy on October 25, 2007 10:01 PM
“Ledger, most all hellaflopper rotors are floppy and flappy…” –Justthisguy
Yep, I can see from the other pictures that the rotor blades do not scrape the wing – it is just the angle of the picture.
I got a few hours behind the cyclic.
by
Ledger on October 26, 2007 7:43 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 23, 2007
On how the Cheyenne came to be...
So, given what we know about Sugarbuttons Bill, ya gotta think it went down something like this...
Bill and V29 (or someone very much like V29) are sitting at a table in a bar in Enterprise, Alabama, telling war storys. The TINS are flying so fast and hard the air has taken on an ochre tint... kinda like a dust storm, only... messier. Anyway, sitting at a table slightly behind them is a white-shirted, dark-pitted, greasy-haired, taped-glasses pocket-protector wearer with pimples, slipstick clipped to his belt. Yeah, an engineer.
Taking copious notes on his napkin, because he desperately wants to get the lingo down so he can sound like an insider on the flightline. Nope, couldn't be me - I was too young at this point. Besides, I'm not an engineer, however much the rest of the description may, or may not, fit.
Bill cocks his head towards the engineer and in a voce all sotto tells V29 (or someone much like V29) "Watch this!" Raising his voice, and maneuvering his hands to match his narrative, Bill sez, "Yeah, I got this from guys flying for the 11th ACR - they're out flying the border, when this new Rooshian bird comes up to 'em - a big brute of a beast, with wings, cannon, stacked drivers, and get this - it was a pusher! Yep - they hadda look twice, they said - thought the commie bassids were bringing in some kinda turbo-prop or something... but nope - it's a helo awright. Said it took off like a bat outta hell and scared 'em sober for 15 minutes!"
Bill checks out of the corner of his eye and Engineer-boy is scribbling furiously, reaching for his slipstick.
One year later...

It's all Bill's fault, I tell ya.
Oh, sure, this is the *official* story. But which one sounds more real?
Larger image available by clicking here.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
No that is a good looking bird!
by MR T's Haircut on October 23, 2007 6:35 AM
Well it sure wasn't me. Nothing short of an atom bomb could scare me sober! Well one thing could... flying copilot with Sugarbuttons and hear him say, "Watch This". Anytime a pilot with the controls says watch this, cinch up your parachute and if you're in a helimachopper, bend over and kiss it goodbye. Chances are you're in for the ride of your life, literally.
by V29 on October 23, 2007 8:13 AM
15 straight minutes of sobriety for a Blackhorse aviator?? what kind of sap do you take me for!
by MajMike on October 23, 2007 8:13 AM
I *said* it was scary! Geez, MajMike...
by
John of Argghhh! on October 23, 2007 8:24 AM
Your version sounds much more realistic, John. At least, I can totally picture it ;-)
by
Barb on October 23, 2007 10:11 AM
Saw the 8mm gee-whiz-shazam film Lockheed released in '70, and immediately decided a rotating gunner's station was both needlessly complicated and the fastest way to induce vertigo in a mildly-maneuvering aircraft. Plus that reduced the internal support for the pilot's station. When the test ship looped, that confirmed my decision to never get inside one.
I don't *do* inverted well.
BTW, didja get a pic of the dinged tail rotor blade? Got half a dozen decent grognard-type shots when I was down that way before the Pak jaunt. No, I didn't ding it. I was drinking in the club at the time...
by
BillT on October 23, 2007 12:51 PM
I was in high school near Thousand Oaks, CA from '64-'68, about a half hour south of Pt. Mugu Naval base. Out of which occasionally issued one odd/old/interesting flying machine.
The father of two brothers who were classmates of mine was based at Pt. Mugu for a while working on the Man in Sea project.
He got us passes to the Armed Forces day airshow one year, where we got to see two passes by an SR-71, a demo of the Fulton system picking up of a fellow from the ground, and the only time I've seen a pair of sidewinders fired off at a flare shot off from the beach. (Best. Airshow. Ever.)
Some months later, an AH-56 overflew the school, with something or other flying chase with it, can't recall what.
I do remember that the Cheyenne was hands down the strangest sounding, and loudest rotorcraft I have ever in my life heard. The closest thing I can recall to the sound was hearing an A-10 fire its gatling gun, but lower pitched.
by steveH on October 23, 2007 6:51 PM
Ignoring the question of optical corrective measures, it could have been this, or possibly this.
Or this.
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on October 23, 2007 8:47 PM
All true, but was it not the fastest hellaflopper ever built? (Still catchable by lotsa airplanes owned by private citizens, of course.)
by
Justthisguy on October 23, 2007 9:59 PM
This just in, the exact quote from the voice recorder was:
"Hold my beer and watch this!!!!"
Followed by crash noises.
by
jim b on October 23, 2007 10:42 PM
All true, but was it not the fastest hellaflopper ever built?
Nope. The Ka-22 and a couple of DARPA one-offs were faster. Of course, all of them (the Cheyenne included) were composite aircraft, using props to boost their speed past the 200-knot mark. A true helicopter has *huge* aerodynamic problems with the rotor system when its airspeed approaches 200 knots, but Westland designed a set of transonic blades and fitted them to a Lynx in 1986 and the beast actually got up to 217 knots in level flight.
by
BillT on October 24, 2007 8:54 AM
Cheyenne? They shoulda called it the Platypus.
by
Tim on October 24, 2007 9:18 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
October 2, 2007
TINS! You Picked It (Again)
Well, the voting was close, in keeping with the spirit of the TINS!, in which *all* the calls are close. And at least nobody said, "Hey, all that stuff happened while you were still in Flight School!"
Nooooo, they *didn't*, and I have the best witnesses a quart of muscatel can buy.
Unfortunately, Real World reared it's misbegotten multiple heads so often I didn't get the chance to write anything for the past two days. *But* -- because I like ya, and you've waited so patiently to see me get my ass shot off yet again something tangible, here's a preview of what Numbah 10 was all about:

Yup, all those pretty colored kindergarten shapes actually *mean* something. I won't tell you exactly what, of course, until I figure out how to keep from getting my ass shot off actually type up the story. I'll give you a couple of hints, though.
The Plan.
Me.
Them.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Off to Bollimer. With any luck, I'll be there before any of you can wake up, read this, and ask me to retrieve a certain stuffed marmoset...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Be warned, some of us read on the midwatch.
Now about that stuffed critter...
by bc on October 2, 2007 12:05 AM
Hmmmm, a .51, theres gonna be pucker factor in this story....
by Old Fat Sailor on October 2, 2007 12:42 AM
OFS ~ there's an understatement for ya. Yikes.
by
HomefrontSix on October 2, 2007 1:21 AM
There is not enough room nor enough stale cheetos for the Marmoset(stuffed or not) here in Castle Argghhh!'s Purgatory. Sorry. If Cassie were willing to subsidize upkeep of said Marmoset with comic books and choco-pudding(not slated for the choco-gun, which isn't looking so good since it hasn't been used in a while and Sgt. B hasn't been by to service it), well, then something could be arranged.
by ry on October 2, 2007 4:54 AM
Eeeeewwww - Just the thought of Sgt. B servicing a stale Marmoset, is enough to ruin anyone's day.
by Boquisucio on October 2, 2007 7:51 AM
Boq - that's baa-a-ad. And I'm peeved that you got to post it before I did! Hehehe.
It's the return of Twitchy Bill! Yeeha!
by
Barb on October 2, 2007 8:51 AM
I'm wondering why rusmilitary.com is a banned site at work...
No. Actually, I should have known anything with "military" in the name would be a banned site for a company headquarted in Portland, OR.
frggin libs.
i'm testy today... and thinking about B servicing a stale marmoset put a big smile on my face! Thanks Boq!
by AFSister on October 2, 2007 9:47 AM
AFSis - try this link.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 2, 2007 3:13 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Oct 02, 2007
September 28, 2007
Friday Two-Fers
Yesterday, ry walked all over it with golf spikes was kind enough to remind me that I walked all over it with football cleats hadn't yet announced the winner of the new tagline contest from a couple of weeks ago.
Ahem.
According to the rules of the contest, which you *all* read, agreed to, and then consigned to memory -- with the evident exception of ry -- nobody won. There were some really, really, *really* good one-liners that *nobody voted for*. So, it looks like I'm stuck with answering the once-a-month e-mail with "It's an OH-58D" in the subject line. For the time being. And it's all your fault, slackers.
Eeeep! I'm channeling John...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
However, with me, you always get a shot at redemption. First, for those of you who have been stuck in a two-year time warp remember this one from a little while ago, congratulations on your admirable ability to restrain your curiosity for this length of time. Second, for those of you who are new to the site (and we *all* know who you are, but like you a lot anyway), here's the synopsis:
Every once in a while, regardless of what your particular job happens to be in the military, you hear a comment or a call over the radio that makes you realize how badly it sucks being you at that particular instance and in that particular point in space. One morning, I shook a bunch of them out of the *Ohhh-Boy!* compartment and listed them -- there's a TINS! that accompanies each -- and I asked you to vote for the particular one you figured would bore you the least deemed most interesting.
1. "Ooops!" [#1] -- from a gunship, two seconds after his rocket hit the (flooded) paddy I was just about to land in. Right underneath me. Instant concussive waterfall.
2. "Holy sh*t! They said Charlie didn't have any flak down here! One-Five, are any of you guys still alive in there?"
3. "Ooops!" [#2] -- from a different gunship, one nanosecond before my crewchief screamed that a rocket had just passed between our right skid and the belly of the aircraft.
4. "Hey, One-Five, you look like Niagara Falls. I thought those fuel cells were supposed to be self-sealing."
5. "Aaaaah! One-Five's dead!" -- from my copilot, right after I took a direct hit in the chicken plate that slammed me flailing off the controls while we were at flat pitch in an LZ. I thought I was dead and his squeak didn't do anything to lessen my depression.
6. "Sir? The world's biggest tracer just came offa Nui Coto an' -- geez, it's following us!" -- my introduction to the game of helicopter vs. heat-seeking missile. I won. Barely.
7. "Chalk Four, you've still got a tailboom. Couldn't say for how much longer, though."
8. "The SEALs are ready for pickup, sir. Along with about a platoon of VC on the other side of the treeline they're in."
9. "Sector TOC wants you to check out a possible 37mm site west of Nui Hon Soc. The others they sent there never called in."
10. "Hey, One-Five -- uhh, ya do know yer on fire, don't ya?"
Number 6 won. 'Fess up. You guys wanted to see if I really *did* get out of these things alive, didn't you...
However, there are still nine more to go, each one a bigger yawner than the last leading to a small vignette of a TINS! Pick a number and pop it into the comments -- the biggest vote-getter gets posted. And remember, one legit addy,
*glowering at a certain Denizenne blogtwin with multiple persona disorder*
one legit vote.
And then we'll do it again. And again, and again, and again until I figure you're ready to take on the sidebar -- again.
Two-Niner's allowed to pass, although he'll probably pop in to snark, because he either made some of the calls or knows the story already.
He *thinks* so, anyway.
Heh -- you don't think I only have *nine* stories left, do ya?
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Yeah, I walked all over it. And got a rapping of my knuckles by Cassie for my efforts too. I'd swear that woman was a Catholic School Nun if I didn't already know better. (Maybe I shouldn't say that in this crowd. Who knows what mind in the gutter comment will be made next.)
And I wouldn't mind hearing Oooops#1.
by ry on September 28, 2007 7:33 AM
*sigh*
I have FAILED MY TWIN! Not ONE VOTE? For ANY OF THEM?
I demand a recount! And I vote for HF6's "the ground repels them" comment. Lurv that one.
As for a new TINS story, I promise to play by the rules for ONCE in my life and will only vote one time. For #8. After all, who wouldn't love a story that involves SEALs?
by AFSister on September 28, 2007 8:05 AM
Who knows what mind in the gutter comment will be made next
With this crowd? Not a one.
After all, who wouldn't love a story that involves SEALs?
Me. For about five hours -- uhhh -- *minutes*, anyway.
Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When sustained automatic weapons fire turns the minutes to hours?
Sorry 'bout that, Gord-O.
by
BillT on September 28, 2007 9:26 AM
The love of God is concentrated in the efforts of your Guardian Angels... the reason you are here to *relate* the TINS.
Geez, Bill, that was an easy one.
by
John of Argghhh! on September 28, 2007 9:28 AM
I, for one, vote for #10. Fire ALWAYS makes for a good story, and it's even better if someone else has to inform you about it!
by NinjaFluff on September 28, 2007 9:34 AM
I vote for #6. I wanna see if you survive. And I *know* you have more than nine stories left -- yer just waiting for the statute of limitations to expire on the rest.
by
bad cat robot on September 28, 2007 9:38 AM
Speaking of Numbah 6 - I call Beauchamp on you. I don't believe your Crew Chief used the word, "Geez" you fabulist!
by
John of Argghhh! on September 28, 2007 9:45 AM
One of the limitations on the R-44 heliothwopter is max altitude of 9000 AGL. The book states this because in case of fire you have a five minute firewall, and above 9000 it will take you longer than that to autorotate to a landing. That's got to be a long 5 minutes...
I want to hear #10!
by
Pogue on September 28, 2007 9:49 AM
Fire ALWAYS makes for a good story
[Memo to self: TINS!-bait pulls NinjaFluff out from the draperies -- evidently schools with the other Denizennes when in stealth mode]
Aaaand BCR chimes in with a vote for Number Six. Won't she be surprised...
I don't believe your Crew Chief used the word, "Geez" you fabulist!
He most certainly did. Granted, it was the polysyllabic version, but it really-truly *started* with "Geez"...
...in case of fire you have a five minute firewall...
Betcha you could get a Robinson on the ground *real* fast if the fire started on the wrong side of the wall, though...
by
BillT on September 28, 2007 10:29 AM
*giggles as BCR*
lolololol
by AFSister on September 28, 2007 10:34 AM
I still want to hear them all. But I will echo NinjaFluff's vote for #10, which was one of my choices wayyyyy back when.
*grin*
by
Barb on September 28, 2007 10:43 AM
37mm HE vs Bell spam-can! #9's gotta be good!
by Neffi on September 28, 2007 11:50 AM
#6.
... to see if the story has been 'adjusted' in the past several years.
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on September 28, 2007 12:03 PM
*giggles as BCR*
Not because you've fixed the death ray, I hope? You'll still chortle as WK, right?
... to see if the story has been 'adjusted' in the past several years.
Nope. Still there, warts and all. And I still lived. And the crewchief still said the G-Rated versio(u)n of what he really said.
by
BillT on September 28, 2007 1:02 PM
[Memo to self: TINS!-bait pulls NinjaFluff out from the draperies -- evidently schools with the other Denizennes when in stealth mode]
Nah... I just don't comment when I have nothing to add to the conversation. "Better they think you're a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"
That being said... I think I heard about a whole bunch more votes for #10 somewhere around here... *grin*
by Ninjafluff on September 28, 2007 1:21 PM
Fiends.
by
BillT on September 28, 2007 1:46 PM
Or you could always give your side of this story ...
by
bad cat robot on September 28, 2007 1:58 PM
I *did*:
A foul canard.
I get up at 0530, *not* 0700. And the spider had a satchel charge...
See? Vindication.
by
BillT on September 28, 2007 2:54 PM
And these days, I get up at 0415. Gaby got hold of a sour vole last week and her GI tract has been in revolt ever since.
If I had it to do over again, I would've gone for the rancher with the drainage hole in the kitchen floor...
by
BillT on September 28, 2007 3:00 PM
First read and damn near laughed my ass off... Having done a few of those myself, I've got to vote for #9.
by
Old NFO on September 28, 2007 9:21 PM
Poor little pup - she just needs to spend quality time with Bigfoot all by her little self ;-)
by
Barb on September 28, 2007 11:29 PM
...she just needs to spend quality time with Bigfoot all by her little self.
If you mean getting ear-chin skritches whenever she takes a break from trying to tackle Scout, jumping over Jake (while he's standing up) and boxing with Muffy the Maleficent, that -- plus leaping onto my lap whenever I sit down -- is the normal drill. She's turning into WereKitty...
by
BillT on September 29, 2007 12:06 PM
Number 9, please.
Although number 10 sounds fascinating, don't the Vietnamese consider that number unlucky? Maybe he should call that one "10a" "10+1"... ;)
by
Casey Tompkins on September 30, 2007 1:01 PM
Not unlucky, just the pits, as in "Choi oi, Numbah Ten."
Or, if it's really, *really* super-bad, "Choi-duc oi, sinh loi, Numbah Ten Thousand!"
by
BillT on September 30, 2007 2:18 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Sep 28, 2007
September 3, 2007
Tagline Contest Redux
Okayyyy, the tagline contest generated more responses than I figured, but it won’t be a genuine contest until The Winnah is picked.
Unlike those "contests" at -- ahem -- some *other* sites.
So, I figure our weekenders (technically, it's still the weekend) deserve a shot at it, too. Here’s the deal.
A. Go back to the link in the first sentence (you know, the one you ignored in your hurry to see what this is all about) and get the gist of what I’m hoping to achieve.
B. Snarken up your #2 posting finger and get ready to play.
You can either vote for one of the previous entries (by number) or submit one of your own. Or, you can score major points by picking one of my brilliant gems modest suggestions.
Ready? Go!
From Denizenne BlogTwin and perennial favorite (and not just in caption contests) AFSister comes this:
1. Aw, come on, Bill! I LIKE IT!
BlogNeighbor (and part-time blonde) Cassandra came up with:
2. [tapping foot]...
Mmmmmm – I predict I'll have to put Damage Control on Immediate Response status when / if she gets here.
We have two entries from the Castle’s Mistress of the Snark, Bad Cat Robot:
3. Ignoring the law of gravity since 1857!
4. If you throw yourself at the ground and miss really fast, you might be in a helicopter.
Chiming in from the Land of Backwards Seasons is trias with:
5. Bill's new copter with its Advanced Bill Correction Device (ABCD). This fantastic marvel of engineering automatically adjusts helium levels to make the CG move around wildly thereby providing Bill with normal operating conditions. AI could, unfortunately, not be included in the extensive feature list due to it's propensity to eject before takeoff.
Journalist NevadaDailySteve proves that the MinisculeStreamMedia does, indeed, have a sense of humor (a small one – but a sense of humor, nonetheless)
6. If you build it, some idiot will fly it.
Pat has been weeding in his DVD collection:
7. That's not a TINS, this is a TINS!
John, as usual, hit the wrong comment box – the one he obviously wanted concerned somebody’s guess about the Whatziss:
8. BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
Castle newbie NinjaFluff has a twofer, too, fer ya...too...fer...*whap!* Owwww!:
You guys are great... This is why I love this site so much!
Okay, so that *wasn’t* one of her suggestions, but I'll take any compliment that staggers into the area. Geez, can’t I throw myself a bone, here?
9. Chief Sugarbuttons... flying the helicopters American's won't!
10. Bill, the Rotorhead - STILL flying faster than his Guardian Angel!
*sigh* Now I know who's been hounding me to join the Carborundum Fan Club...
Fellow GuardBud Pogue whaps my aged snoot with:
11. Four decades of combat operations.
Ymarsaker managed to avoid the firewall between Cassie’s place and the Castle:
12. Bill needs a helicopter to escape Cass's wrath.
Okay, he’s not *that* funny, but he thinks *I’m* funny and since he’s probably smart enough to take me two falls out of three in brain wrestling, I’m hedging my bets.
And perennial favorite in her own right (and another BlogNeighbor and demi-Denizenne), HomefrontSix tosses out:
13. Helicopters Don't Fly: They're So Ugly the Ground Repels Them.
Which I choose to take as a compliment, because I fall down a lot and have yet to miss the ground.
And -- a new record. I only got bumped offline by *two* power failures during the composition of this po
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
If you want something a touch risque, well, a few years back I was reading a discussion thread on the relative merits of the fixed-wing and rotary-wing methods of temporarily defying gravity. In said thread, a fixed-wing devotee commented:
"Getting airborne by screwing yourself into the sky is an unnatural act."
Myself, I would suggest:
"You can't do THAT in a helicopter .... can you?!?"
Or an old standby for anyone lucky enough to have a job he/she enjoys:
"Can you believe they pay me to do this?"
by wolfwalker on September 3, 2007 8:20 AM
WW - We prefer to think of it as beating the air into submission. And you'd be surprised what you can do in a helicopter.
Probably wouldn't be surprised at the things you can't or shouldn't though...
by
BillT on September 3, 2007 9:02 AM
Oh, geez -- you were talking about *flying* in them. I thought--
Never mind...
by
BillT on September 3, 2007 9:05 AM
Perhaps I'll have a suggestion after you show me some of the things you aren't supposed to do in a helicopter.
by
Maggie on September 3, 2007 10:34 AM
"Always spinning; sometimes controlled."
"I never spin; I gyrate, I whirl, I pirouette."
"Beating the air into submission, in more ways than one."
"Auto rotation: it's not just another spin."
"Formation flying, the individual way."
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on September 3, 2007 11:39 AM
The extra bit on top is for the pilot's ego to be stored. Otherwise his head would be too big for the cockpit!
by V29 on September 3, 2007 1:02 PM
V29 shoots, he scores!
by
John of Argghhh! on September 3, 2007 4:59 PM
The unfortunate result of a tank that was designed by a government commitee and built by a lowest bidder whose staff couldn't read English or follow the plans.
by Murray on September 3, 2007 5:24 PM
Swing-wing aviation: we swash plates for a living!
by Neffi on September 3, 2007 5:44 PM
or...
Life is Cyclic; Ups and Downs But With Forward Progress Always
by Neffi on September 3, 2007 5:51 PM
OK, here’s a slightly obscure one, and I don’t know if the last bit applies.
SugarButtons, beating the air into submission since Christ was a corporal. TINS, fiddly bits, and so, so much more. And somewhere, a nun’s ears are burning...
by Blackhawk on September 3, 2007 5:58 PM
SNAKES! They're Not Just For Breakfast Anymore!
(with an appropriate change of pic, natch)
by Neffi on September 3, 2007 6:08 PM
*grin*
You *KNOW* I like it.. perhaps another "name it" contest should be "What does Sis like?"
hehe
btw... I'm pretty partial to the cartoon Boq 'shopped for ya!
by AFSister on September 3, 2007 10:07 PM
Wow...I've moved up to demi-Denizenne. I'm FLATTERED!!!
I would say that anything that screws its way into the sky flies according to unnatural principals. Just another take on beating the air into submission.
by
HomefrontSix on September 4, 2007 10:06 PM
Don't get too excited, HF6. Demi-Denizennes have to dust ry's comic book collection and chaperone Maggie during pub-crawls. The pay is lousy, but you get to read the comic books...
by
BillT on September 4, 2007 10:54 PM
Well, I've already chaperoned Maggie during a pub crawl (a la the infamous flashing!) so I'm 1/2 way there! Woohoo!
by
HomefrontSix on September 5, 2007 3:09 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Sep 03, 2007
August 28, 2007
A New Contest
Relax, Cassie -- it's *not* a caption contest (mmmm, technically, it might be -- but it's not the one she's gonna damage me for).
Whatzis helicopter and why does it have a balloon on top?
Every month or so, I get an e-gram with the correct answer. OH-58D. Kiowa *gag!* Warrior.
Unfortunately, it's not supposed to be a serious question. Y'see, a couple of years back, when John first dragged me squalling and scratching into this mess suggested I start doing actual posts, rather than sending his spam filters into overload mode merely e-mailing him vignettes, he asked me what I wanted above my sidebar pic.
And he attached a jaypeg of a KW. If I hadn't thought he was kidding (I've never even been off the ground in one), I never would have replied with the phrase
Whatzis helicopter and why does it have a balloon on top?
because it's sort of an "in" joke in the fling-wing community, to wit -- "The aircraft's got such a high c.g. [translation -- it's so topheavy] it needs helium in the MMS to keep it from rolling over on the helipad."
If I'd known he was so freakin' Machiavellian serious, I would have come up with a cooler meme. Something like,
Proof that there *are* old, bold aviators! Ummm -- *old* ones, anyway...
Soooooo, that's the contest -- "Give Bill a new sidebar blurb." Winner gets brag rights and a free Urdu pronunciation lesson *or* a hi-res pic of a Cobra you can PhotoShop your face into and impress your friends, especially if they think you've never been in the Pakistani Army.
Changing the pic out will be the object of a future contest.
*waving hiya to Cassie*
Meantime, go for it!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Aw, come on, Bill! I LIKE IT!
by AFSister on August 28, 2007 6:12 AM
*That* is why we need you for the comment parties.
Meantime, get back on subject...
by
BillT on August 28, 2007 6:18 AM
And hang around if Cassie shows up with a heating pad on her throwing arm, Twin. I might *need* the Red Cross...
Absorbing sexual harassment so you don't have to!
by
BillT on August 28, 2007 6:28 AM
[tapping foot]...
by
Cassandra on August 28, 2007 6:38 AM
[quickly tosses the trivet to divert Cassie's attention (she's easy that way)]
BTW, newbies (or even not-so-newbies, it's been a while since the trivet was tossed around here)...
Don't let all this insidery-blog-joke stuff deter you.
Jump in. Participate. *That's* how you become a Denizen/ne! We won't scorn you for not knowing all the inside jokes - like the trivet that used to hang over the lintel at Cassie's joint - speaking of Cassie's joint - don't ask about *why* that marmoset is so scared. Just, well, let's just say Cassie has a *history* with marmosets that hasn't been good. For marmosets.
Really.
Get with it, people! The man needs taglines!!
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2007 7:09 AM
Okay, I'll play ...
"Ignoring the law of gravity since 1857!"
"If you throw yourself at the ground and miss really fast, you might be in a helicopter."
by
bad cat robot on August 28, 2007 8:07 AM
One day i'll get half these injokes, then my conversion to true insanity will be complete.
taglines? for that pic? hmm?
Bills new copter with its Advanced Bill Correction Device (ABCD). This fantastic marvel of engineering automatically adjusts helium levels to make the CG move around wildly thereby providing Bill with normal operating conditions. AI could, unfortunately, not be included in the extensive feature list due to it's propensity to eject before takeoff.
Is suggesting a new pic a faux pas?
by Trias on August 28, 2007 8:14 AM
Certainly not, Trias - Bill alluded to a new pic in the future - so, suggest away!
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2007 8:18 AM
that's the way, uh huh uh huh, I LIKE IT, uh huh uh huh....
OK all you Photoshop Jockies out there... I have a mission for you.
Take Twitchy Bill's picture, coat the bird with candy dots, add some feeee-male passengers and a title bar "Chief SugarButtons and the SugarButtons Brigade".
by AFSister on August 28, 2007 8:36 AM
Kiowa airlines motto: "If you build it, some idiot will fly it."
I hesitate to list my only other motto, it might run afoul of "Da Rulez" but it could be paraphrased as "I have big spheres, you have big spheres, we all have big spheres, but I have the biggest spheres of all."
by
NevadaDailySteve on August 28, 2007 9:00 AM
i'm kinda partial towards that part about "fiddly bits flying in formation".
kinda sez it all...
by MajMike on August 28, 2007 9:22 AM
(Channeling Mick Dundee) "That's not a TINS, this is a TINS"
by Pat on August 28, 2007 10:13 AM
And he attached a jaypeg of a KW. If I hadn't thought he was kidding (I've never even been off the ground in one)
PHEW!
I hadda read that twice just to make sure it said 'KW' and not 'WK'. As far as I know, you've never been off the ground in WK either. I'm pretty sure I would have remembered that.
by WereKitten on August 28, 2007 10:34 AM
Well WK - How 'bout THIS fiddy bit.
by Boquisucio on August 28, 2007 11:04 AM
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2007 11:32 AM
Don't let all this insidery-blog-joke stuff deter you.
All the inter-blog-joke stuff as well.
I might *need* the Red Cross...
Either that or you'll be on the Cross.
by Ymarsakar on August 28, 2007 12:11 PM
Don't let all this insidery-blog-joke stuff deter you.
All the inter-blog-joke stuff as well.
I might *need* the Red Cross...
Either that or you'll be on the Cross.
by ymarsakar on August 28, 2007 12:14 PM
ohhhhh my... ymarsaker, you have *no* idea how much that made me laugh!
You see... I'm in the Red Cross. SO. If SugarButtons is ON the cross... I have a lot of 'splainin to do!
Boq... that's AWESOME.... Now, if we can only make that blonde a brunette! With red highlights of course.
by AFSister on August 28, 2007 12:41 PM
You guys are great... This is why I love this site so much!
Playing off of AFSister's suggestion, how about "Chief Sugarbuttons... flying the helicopters American's won't!"
Or how about "Bill, the Rotorhead - STILL flying faster than his Guardian Angel!"
by NinjaFluff on August 28, 2007 4:24 PM
The balloon is on the top cause putting it on the bottom created a rocky situation at best.
I prefer to think of it as a Flying Bullet Magnet.
by
jim b on August 28, 2007 4:43 PM
...flying the helicopters Americans won't!
Considering the Army sent the last flyable Cobras up to jim b's bailiwick in 2001, you're closer than you realize, NinjaFluff.
Dodging hostile fire semisuccessfully since 1969!
by
BillT on August 28, 2007 5:15 PM
How about "Four decades of combat operations."
by
Pogue on August 28, 2007 7:24 PM
How about Bill needs a helicopter to escape Cass's wrath.
by
Ymarsakar on August 28, 2007 7:56 PM
Bill - do you have *any* idea where Jim B lives?
Methinks... not. You've got him confoozled with someone else, I'm guessing.
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2007 8:49 PM
Bill - do you have *any* idea where Jim B lives?
He *used* to hang around Wheeler-Sack AAF, but it's been a while. Short-term memory loss and all that.
And I've just *begun* to rummage through the Dufflebag of Useful Excuses...
by
BillT on August 28, 2007 9:05 PM
Look up, Wyandotte County.
Or, Dennis Moore.
;^)
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2007 10:13 PM
You see... I'm in the Red Cross. SO. If SugarButtons is ON the cross... I have a lot of 'splainin to do!
That's one way to look at it ; )
by
Ymarsakar on August 28, 2007 10:28 PM
According to Grim, there are two hundred and thirty two ways of looking at it...
by
BillT on August 28, 2007 10:53 PM
Look up, Wyandotte County.
Or, Dennis Moore.
Jim B is John Cleese?
Uses for Lupins
* Sit on them
* Sleep in them
* Feed the cat them
* Burn them
* Wear them
* Eat them
Ways to Cook Lupins
* Lupin Soup
* Roast Lupin
* Steamed Lupin
* Braised Lupin in Lupin Sauce
* Lupin in the Basket with Sauteed Lupins
* Lupin Meringue Pie
* Lupin Sorbet
by
BillT on August 28, 2007 11:01 PM
You could always go with the old faithful statement, So Ugly the ground repels them.
And I'm not sure which is funnier-looking...the KW or the 'Hook...it's a toss up.
by
HomefrontSix on August 29, 2007 3:37 PM
KW. Of course, I'm prejudiced. The Flyboys let my branch spend all the money to develop the thing, then stole it from us.
by
John of Argghhh! on August 29, 2007 5:21 PM
Hey, *you* were the ones whining about not being able to use the Copperhead because you couldn't get a parabolic arc out of a laser...
by
BillT on August 29, 2007 10:00 PM
So Ugly the ground repels them.
Are you saying the reason I fall down a lot is because I'm *cute*?
by
BillT on August 29, 2007 10:03 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Aug 28, 2007
June 27, 2006
WHATZISS "DNOUEMENT" STUFF?
Okay, SangerM gets the brag. He undoubtedly remembers looking down at it on more than one occasion...
It's the skid toe shoe for Hubert.

MajMike was savvy enough to guess that Sanger knew what he was talking about, but he muffed the location. Nope, not vegetation-dings, either, John. The chipped areas are from gravel 'n' stuff kicked up by the rotorwash in "unimproved" LZs (never did see an "improved" LZ, except the hot ones that got worked over by suppressive fires) and the abrasions (red circle) are from contact with the towbar during ground-handling. The towbar attaching ring is on the inside of the skid, just aft of the skid shoe and the bar angles up when it's hooked to a tug; hence, the abraded area is always on the side facing toward the fuselage. In this case, the fuselage was to the right, so the toe shoe was on the left. Elementary, my dear Mikey.
A little tip-toe on the skid-toe, eh, AFSis? Makes getting in-and-out of a Huey a whole bunch easier than a Cobra...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
*snerk*
Yes... but I look pretty good sitting in that cockpit, eh? I was amazed at how small it was. Are you *sure* you have a 27" zipper?
by AFSister on June 27, 2006 12:45 PM
Dang!, but that's a big grin, AFS! You tryin' to imitate that Norma Jean Baker person, or what? (Actually, I think you do it better than she did; hers always looked kind of exaggerated, aware of the camera, etc.) You look more like a normal regular good-lookin' woman.
by
Justthisguy on June 27, 2006 5:28 PM
nyah, nyah, nyah... I an't always smart, but somtimes, I'm downright brilant...
And I've seen 'er in person, and that pic don't do justice...
nyah, nyah, nyah
by
SangerM on June 27, 2006 8:30 PM
Why, Sanger, that is *so* unbecoming!
8^D
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 8:34 PM
oh jeez.. you guys are MAKING ME BLUSH!
Thank you for the compliments.
by AFSister on June 27, 2006 10:37 PM
I was amazed at how small it was.
That's because the fuselage is only 36" wide. Stick control linkages, weapons controllers, wire bundles, avionics and an air-conditioned, armored seat and the available space on the *inside* gets reduced. And if you think your anatomy was crowded with the canopy door *open*...
Are you *sure* you have a 27" zipper?
*snicker* Ask FbL. Or Brab, or BCR, or ALa, or AB. The zipper (and the protected contents) are of a vertical orientation. Pah-lenty of room.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 28, 2006 10:00 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Jun 27, 2006
Whatziss, indeed...
Whatziss? sez John. And, after a torrent of guesses (Its the nano-black hole that ry installed in the garderobe to to keep from having a Kevin moment. Its an aerial view of Tehran on the Day After. Et cetera), the dnouement.
Nope, its the ventilation hole in the spike of an uhlan's pikelhaub from the Franco-Prussian War. Snerk.
*sigh.* But do *I* post a picture like this

and say, Whatziss?
Nope. Not I. You guys get to see the *entirety* of the whatziss.

Yup, thats the whole thing.
And it even comes with clues--you may not have consciously absorbed the information, but if you saw The Green Berets, or Hamburger Hill, or We Were Soldiers Once or even Cartoon --uhhhhh--Platoon, you should be able to dredge the image up through the neuron net.
Ummmm--and it's been cleaned up. A *lot*...
Heh.
[Apropos of Bill's comment - it could be here. Or here. Or several other places. If you are new to the Castle, you should *definitely* click the first link. Actually, you should click through and read *both*. -The Armorer]
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
On the one hand i think urinal and on the other i think bottle opener.
by
Trias on June 27, 2006 2:13 AM
Skid tip?
by
SangerM on June 27, 2006 5:08 AM
Trias - On the one hand i think urinal and on the other i think bottle opener.
But would you consider those to be mutually exclusive uses? And why would a bottle opener need to be cleaned up (I'm downright *careful* about cap-popping)?
Sanger! I figured something OD would get you out from behind the tapestries!
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 5:45 AM
"And it even comes with clues--you may not have consciously absorbed the information, but if you saw The Green Berets, or Hamburger Hill, or We Were Soldiers Once or even Cartoon --uhhhhh--Platoon, you should be able to dredge the image up through the neuron net."
No one, NO ONE has seen the movie "The Green Berets" more than I have. I saw the sentence above and thought "Finally! Here's one that the *non* weapon girl might have a shot at!"
But...........no. LOL
by
Maggie on June 27, 2006 5:57 AM
Maggie - But isn't the *non* weapon girl taking a shot somewhat of an oxymoron? Hmmmmm--considering your prowess with the shillelagh...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 6:17 AM
Hey! I posted a complete pic of the item in question... it was the *clues* that were incomplete.
And taking an obscure part from something and showing the whole thing is *exactly* something I would do, so get off yer high horse there boyo.
Though I haven't a clue yet meself what that is.
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 6:45 AM
Codpiece!
For a small but muscular helicopter- er - person!
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on June 27, 2006 6:51 AM
Wellllll, John, I wouldn't call showing a prong-and-a-half of a trench maul posting the whole thing. But then, that's just me.
JMH - For a small but muscular helicopter- er - person! Small? It's a foot long and--oh, right. That 27" zipper thang.
Howsomever, since it's metal, badly chipped and a tad clunky, folks might think "Armor" rather than "Aviation"--but then, *John* might say it was an over-large codpiece for a tanker-person. *I* won't, though.
Cheers!
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 7:17 AM
Much overlarge for a tanker.
And I *was* referring to my last whatziss. Howcum I don't get the same respect we give politicians and movie stars on i's only the last thing they did or said that counts?
Oh, wait. I *am* getting that respect...
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 7:24 AM
Oh - I guess it's a Hubert part!
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 7:26 AM
hey, no fair! that's just becuz i'm Irish....
and i'm going down the path with SangerM on this one, just based on the wear marks. in fact, i would even further propose that whatever it is, it is the "right hand side" version of it.
by
MajMike on June 27, 2006 8:02 AM
Indeed. And, in keeping with (recently-)established policy, part of it *has* appeared in the Annals of ARGGHHH! and still appears in the Archives of ARGGHHH!
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 8:07 AM
MajMike - It's bilaterally symmetrical. And based on the insult to the paint job (because I know what did the insulting), it's been retired from the *left* side.
And, mirabili dictu, it appears in the ARGGHHH!ives in it's manifestation sinestra...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 8:25 AM
As a point Uhlans do not wear pikelhaub they wear Czapkas. See Wikipedia Uhlans the relevant part of the article is this: In 1914 the Imperial German Army included nineteen Uhlan regiments, three of which were Guard regiments. The senior of these was Ulanen-Regiment Kaiser Alexander III. von Rusland which was first raised in 1745. All German Uhlan regiments wore Polish style czapkas and tunics with plastron fronts, both in coloured parade uniforms and the field grey service dress introduced in 1910. Because German hussar, dragoon and cuirassier regiments carried also carried lances in 1914 there was a tendency among their French and British opponents to describe all German cavalry as "uhlans". After seeing mounted action during the early weeks of World War I the Uhlan regiments were either dismounted to serve as "cavalry rifles" in the trenches of the Western Front, or transferred to the Eastern Front where more primitive conditions made it possible for horse cavalry to still play a useful role. All nineteen German Uhlan regiments were disbanded in 1918-19.
Thought you would want to know.
by JimC on June 27, 2006 8:50 AM
Oh, one more thing the spiked helmet is more properly known as the pickelhaube. The e is necessary.
by JimC on June 27, 2006 9:22 AM
JimC - The Czapka or Schapska was indeed standard headgear for all personnel in Uhlan regiments. But Feldmarschall August von Mackensen wore the pikelhaub for his official portrait.
Ooop. Never mind--von Macksen was a Hussar...
*!*
Hey--with all the dancing around, you guys've collectively nailed it. Now, put all the pieces together and come up with *the* answer.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 9:29 AM
Jim - whattaya sayin' that 'e' is nccssry? Ovratd, I'd say. Ovrusd, crtainly!
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 9:33 AM
Gottit - Bill's step from Hubert. It's upside down in the pic, and comprises the tip of the skid as well.
And Bill was probably flying in vegetation defilade when he dinged the paint.
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 9:37 AM
As seen in the second archive link I provided - or more clearly, here.
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 9:39 AM
And Sanger really deserves the credit, donee? He did get it right, if not totally completely laid out.
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 9:40 AM
I've seen both spellings, but the English sites I checked seem to prefer pickelhaube and the Polish ones pikelhaub. The German sites just smile faintly and gaze off into the distance.
Etymologically, I think the pik-spellers might have a leg up. Jagdgeschwader 53 and all that.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 9:46 AM
"It's the nano-black hole that ry installed in the garderobe to keep from having a Kevin moment"
Nope. Not me. BCR is the one who over engineers.
by ry on June 27, 2006 9:47 AM
Yup, Sanger got it--technically, it's a Huey skid toe cap. I asked him to lay low to see how long it took 'til somebody thought to flip the thing right-side up.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 9:52 AM
Yeah... yeah.... I'll toe-tap your skid.....
by AFSister on June 27, 2006 10:13 AM
Comrades,
Ya know, if you were to hang that skid tip with the point down, and use the hole up top to nail it to the wall, it's be handy as a matchsafe... or perhaps a Holy Water fount for rotorheads.. put it outside the maintenance office for those last minute blessings.....
Respects,
AW1 Tim
by Gwedd on June 27, 2006 10:25 AM
Or as a torch-snuffer for dwarves...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 12:20 PM
nice boot scraper
by
MajMike on June 27, 2006 12:22 PM
Well, I *said* I'd cleaned it up a lot. Almost had to use a wire-brush to get all the red clay off it...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 27, 2006 12:36 PM
Bill I think i've been in too many dives. bottle opener urinal whatever.
I had to look up skid tip. Now's it all clear as red mud.
by
Trias on June 27, 2006 3:23 PM
Ok, now explain it's appearance in "The Green Berets". Please.
by
Maggie on June 27, 2006 4:26 PM
There are Huberts in the Green Berets (those helicopter-thingys). They have skids. Those pole-like things they land on.
The skids have tips. The tip in front has an integral step for the pilot.
Ergo, you have seen them.
According to you... lotsa times!
by
John of Argghhh! on June 27, 2006 4:32 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Jun 27, 2006
June 20, 2006
Okayyyy--
--looks like I've got to re-evaluate my definition of "a lead pipe cinch." Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce

the control head for the M118 Smoke Dispenser
Now, you may have heard rollicking, primordial laughter emanating from somewhere south of the Delaware Water Gap every time you thought "rockets" about this critter.
That was me.
Four measley toggle switches, four cheap plastic rotary ID switches -- for *rockets*?
*grin*
This is what a Rocket Management System looks like. Eat yer heart out, Lex.
Okay, back to Smokey Joe. Sometime during the late seventies, some brainiac realized that sending OH-58As out looking for the Soviet 357th Motorized Rifle Horde when the balloon went up was just going to crank up the US casualty list that much sooner. So, he decided that, since the Cobras were going there *anyway*, they might as well have the capability to mark their own targets before they engaged them.
Yeah, that was our reaction, too.
But, the result was the M118. Remember what I said about how a malfunction would ruin your whole day? Take a peek at the functional test. If the clamps failed to extend, the smoke popped while it was still hung up in the ejector. Try evading some clown in a MiG-23 while you're dragging a red smoke cloud through the woods...
Meantime, brags go to Trias for sorta-kinda pretty much nailing it, albeit squishily; to Nicholas and wolfwalker for figgering out the color aspect; and to Eric for twigging to the color knobs having an identification, rather than a selector, function. Oh, and to John, for spelling intervalometer correctly.
And, if you really, *really* have to see where this thing got squeezed into the cockpit, drop in at the AirCav site -- it's an interactive hotmap, so rather than use up gobs of John's bandwidth, just copy 'n' paste
http://www.aircav.com/cobra/cockpit/pilot/pltstati.html
to your browser window, then you can play with it all you want. Lotta neat stuff to get your eyeballs crossed (visualize John actually *sitting* in the seat). And working with all that arcane avionics aeronautica was a *lot* more fun than trying to get an aiming circle needle to hold still...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
I dunno... it does kinda look like a disco light display control panel. Not that I would know anything about dancing under mirror balls, with lots of smoke and lights, and maybe a pole or two...
Nope. Not me.
by Were-Kitten on June 20, 2006 7:46 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Jun 20, 2006
June 19, 2006
Whatziss?
Well, since John has been grumphing that my stuff is more enigmatic than a German cypher machine, I figure I'll make everybody's day by posting a lead-pipe cinch:

Geez, wotta a bunch of whiners! Okay, okay--here's another view of it:

Obviously, it's not a stand-alone item--it's gotta be connected to something else in order to function and to enable that something else to function, too. Ummmm--*several* something elses, that is.
When the entire system worked, it did exactly what it was designed to do, and when it didn't--wellllll, that was another one of those times when it really sucked to be me...
***************************
Update: Text from Trias, italics from yours truly--
A controller! I win I win Ok you can stop hitting me now.
It looks old and worn but that might be the norm in the military. The delicate fuscia peach and charcoal tones indicate military. The item looks worn on the edges which, with the plug n play bit, suggests that the item is often handled and removed.
At the same time it looks fairly robust. Like it might need to be resistant to the bumps etc of movement. So i think this is for a vehicle of some type.
Left hand and right hand arm. Kinda says aircraft missiles doesn't it? But i'll go outside that and say helicopter. And because i think it's kinda plug n play i could be a 'special' weapon (weapon used real loosely here)like flares smoke grenade or something like that.
It's the dials which have me scrathing my head RGBYWV. The closest match for me is red green blue yellow w?white? and violet? Colours? Hardly a rainbow. Maybe for parades? Far more likely a code. But what the hell does that mean? And being the foremost expert in military hoohar i am utterly lost in the woods.
So a controller for a helicopter special weapon??
I love guessing.
Okay, the lad from the Land of Warm Christmases has put enough shotgun pellets into the target (although he's slightly off the mark on a minor point) to define it, generically. So, what is it *specifically*--meaning system nomenclature and aircraft-of-application?
I toldja it was a lead-pipe cinch...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Chaff and flares?
Rockets? Other forward firing ordnance? On the left hand, and the right hand?
Tactical nukes? Oops. That was going back a bit in my own time...
Considering loft profile and dash speeds, that prolly wouldn't have worked so well, in rotary wing.
by
lex on June 19, 2006 1:37 AM
A controller! I win I win Ok you can stop hitting me now.
It looks old and worn but that might be the norm in the military. The delicate fuscia peach and charcoal tones indicate military. The item looks worn on the edges which, with the plug n play bit, suggests that the item is often handled and removed.
At the same time it looks fairly robust. Like it might need to be resistant to the bumps etc of movement. So i think this is for a vehicle of some type.
Left hand and right hand arm. Kinda says aircraft missiles doesn't it? But i'll go outside that and say helicopter. And because i think it's kinda plug n play i could be a 'special' weapon (weapon used real loosely here)like flares smoke grenade or something like that.
It's the dials which have me scrathing my head RGBYWV. The closest match for me is red green blue yellow w?white? and violet? Colours? Hardly a rainbow. Maybe for parades? Far more likely a code. But what the hell does that mean? And being the foremost expert in military hoohar i am utterly lost in the woods.
So a controller for a helicopter special weapon??
I love guessing.
by
Trias on June 19, 2006 2:31 AM
Lex - Chaff and flares would be used defensively (hmmmpf. a fine mindset for an *attack* pilot). This had an *offensive* function.
Trias - I love guessing, too, and I'm guessing you like shotguns a lot. And more than one of the pellets hit the mark, so you've got brags on the generality--and I'm gonna stick this in the main post as an update to see who gets the specifics.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 5:45 AM
Enormous gamble here given how little I actually know about helicopters ... but I'm going to guess that's the arming panel for a 2.75" FFAR rocket launch pod system. Further guesses: found on a Huey or HueyCobra, whichever one it was that could carry four pods. Toggle switches above are arming switches. Don't know what the four dials below are, unless they were somehow set for the type of rocket being carried in each pod.
by wolfwalker on June 19, 2006 7:08 AM
One wonders how many helos Bill stripped in his career - and if there's enough parts to build one in his storage shed.
Hmmmm, he *claims* to have been unfunded at work and now has to spend time gardening...
"Yo, Jake, c'mere, dude, I got a question about Bigfoot..."
by
John of Argghhh! on June 19, 2006 7:47 AM
Hmmmm. OS-1115 Intervalometer?
by
John of Argghhh! on June 19, 2006 9:08 AM
wolfwalker - ...but I'm going to guess that's the arming panel for a 2.75" FFAR rocket launch pod system.
The system it controls mounts *on* the pod system.
Further guesses: found on a Huey or HueyCobra, whichever one it was that could carry four pods. Toggle switches above are arming switches.
Both guesses are "Target! FFE!"
JoA - OS-1115 Intervalometer?
Different systems, but the functionality is identical. And the intervalometer looks weirder.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 9:23 AM
Toggle switches for arm of course, but looking at the back panel, the dials look to be pots rather than setting switches because there's not nearly enough wires coming from them. Just a bus bar and then a copper contact strip attached tot he toggle.
Looks like an arm switch for a rocket pod system with the dials controlling voltage which controls the number of rockets that fire when you hit the appropriate button.
by
Ryan Gill on June 19, 2006 9:46 AM
I'll keep throwing up random items... XM113 External Stores Control Panel for the Cheyenne?
by
John of Argghhh! on June 19, 2006 9:48 AM
My guess is the RGBYWV *are* for selecting colours. It think this is for a forward airborne observer helicopter, who spots and marks targets and friendlies using coloured smoke rockets and then call in air strikes on the smoke from attack helicopters or fixed wing aircraft. It would make sense that the helo (something like a Kiowa?) would carry four pods each with a bunch of different smoke-coloured rockets and the dials would select which rockets to fire.
I suppose this panel would only be installed on the helo when it was going to be used for FAO and was armed with the smoke rockets... otherwise it might have a different arming/weapons configuration panel for different weapons.
by
Nicholas on June 19, 2006 10:27 AM
Ryan Gill - Nope, not pots. There's an actual, physical contact/stop involved. And John's already guessed the intervalometer.
JoA - Nope. I've actually used this, and the closest I ever got to the cockpit of a Cheyenne was taking a peek inside the stripped carcass that's sitting on the front lawn of the museum at Rucker.
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 10:39 AM
Geez, guys, if I give out any more hints, even Maggie will be able to jump all over it.
Uhhhhh--maybe not. No salt-water tang to it...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 10:44 AM
Nicholas - My guess is the RGBYWV *are* for selecting colours.
Your guess is absolutely correct.
It think this is for a forward airborne observer helicopter, who spots and marks targets and friendlies using coloured smoke rockets...
You're slightly astray on the type, and the scout ships use smoke grenades, not rockets. Smoke warheads are used primarily for screening and only come in white. Re-read the comments and I bet you'll get it before John finishes flailing around...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 11:12 AM
All right, one more try and then I really _will_ be out of ideas.
Four pods, four arm switches, four independently-settable dials. Suggests different types of something, mixable on the aircraft but not within each pod. If it's not the launch system itself it must be something to do with the individual rockets, which suggests either warhead or fuse. Fuse makes more sense -- Wikipedia tells me that there were six common fuse types for the Mk40, and those four dials have six settings on them. Using some sort of color coding (the color painted on the fuse?) as the setting key makes sense in the limited space available. Therefore ...
GUESS: This is the arming control panel for the warhead fuses in a four-pod Mk 40 FFAR launch system. Set the fuse type for each pod using the coded dials, then flip the corresponding switch to ON to activate that pod. (I'll add a WAG that if this little device malfunctioned, it resulted in 100% duds, which would make everyone involved very unhappy. Except the target.)
by wolfwalker on June 19, 2006 11:44 AM
Ah, yes, I'm an idiot. I don't think it could be a Kiowa or the military version of the MD-500 (what's it called? OH-3) because they have two hardpoints, not four. Assuming that that's what the four dials are for--four hardpoints--which seems logical. That would limit it to what: Apache, Cobra, Blackhawk? Any other American Helos that have four hardpoints? (I don't think the Huey does but I could be wrong).
As for what the colours mean, wolfwalker has an interesting idea which could easily be right, but if it isn't smoke or flares then I'm out of ideas :(
(I've definitely seen photos of ground troops mark ing their position with coloured smoke so I thought an FAO might want to have a similar ability).
by
Nicholas on June 19, 2006 12:24 PM
wolfwalker - This is the arming control panel for the warhead fuses in a four-pod Mk 40 FFAR launch system.
Nope. And the fuzes were/are set digitally (the Mk 40 uses the same fuze/warhead combos as the Mk 66). You can set the fuzes for all rockets within a zone, but if you try to zeroize or increase a time-setting improperly, you wind up with a very fast, heavy spear.
(I'll add a WAG that if this little device malfunctioned, it resulted in 100% duds, which would make everyone involved very unhappy.
Actually, if it malfunctioned it just made the *pilot* very unhappy, since the target never realized that it was a target.
Nicholas et al. - Think smoke. Think colors. Think four dials do not necessarily call for four hardpoints. Observe the rocket pod, Grasshoppers--one pod, seven (or nineteen) tubes...
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 1:03 PM
OK, hmm, I had been assuming that--if we are talking about rockets or similar here--the pods were "smart" enough to keep track of how many rockets of each colour they have etc.
But given the simplicity of that control, they probably don't. So, as you say, there are usually more than 6 rockets in a pod and often quite a lot more. So it might be possible that pods are split up into two or more "banks" of rockets, each bank containing one of each colour. So you could have one hardpoint, with a pod with 12 rockets, and use two dials/switches to control the two "banks".
But since you already said smoke warheads only come in white and are used for screening, I'm having trouble understanding the connection. Clearly when you're marking a target, it helps to be able to distinguish it from other potential smoke on the battlefield, from smoke grenades on the ground, or other markers you've made recently, and there might be more than one target. So that's why I was guessing this was for selecting the colour of smoke. But from what you've said I think I'm wrong.
The only other thing I can think of is white smoke rockets with embedded coloured flares, which light up the smoke with different colours? But if you're using it for screening there isn't much point to that.
*sigh* there must be something I'm missing.
by
Nicholas on June 19, 2006 1:24 PM
Geez, guys -- *read* the update under the original post, then read the comments s-l-o-w-l-y...
*throwing hints around with a snowshovel*
by
cw4(ret)billt on June 19, 2006 1:56 PM
One thing I notice: there are four wires per toggle switch, but I don't see any electrical connection from the knobs.
This suggests to me that they're not really knobs, but things that are set on the ground to indicate what the pods are loaded with...?
Now, completely disregarding all comments to date, including the first half of this one, here's my guess:
It's the light-control panel for an XM74E1 mobile disco. The left and right arms each had two light pods, inboard and outboard, each with a six-color filter wheel.
by
Eric Wilner on June 19, 2006 2:34 PM
Snerk! I vote for Eric's answer!
by
John of Argghhh! on June 19, 2006 3:10 PM
Never flown anything older than an A/C Kiowa, but after looking at the backside if the panel a couple of times, the knobs are simply visual indicators reminding the (idiot)pilot(OK, just task saturated) as to what type of store was associated with that tube? location? Couldn't even fathom a guess as to what said weapon system it is, nor what platform. The knobs don't do anything.
by SuperHooker on June 20, 2006 12:51 AM
Never flown anything older than an A/C Kiowa, but after looking at the backside if the panel a couple of times, the knobs are simply visual indicators reminding the (idiot)pilot(OK, just task saturated) as to what type of store was associated with that tube? location? Couldn't even fathom a guess as to what said weapon system it is, nor what platform. The knobs don't do anything.
by SuperHooker on June 20, 2006 12:52 AM
Oh, SuperHooker, thankyouthankyouthankyou! I have a new code word for idiot!
Now, when I come out of a brief where a Senior Leader has just embarassed themselves with a stunning display of "Don't Get It" I can mutter to my long-suffering compadres, "Jeez, that task-saturated b*st*rd couldn't find his fourth point of contact with both hands and a map!" and not hurt anyone's feelings!
by
John of Argghhh! on June 20, 2006 5:55 AM
Stunt plane/helicopter for releasing different color smoke?
by CCat on June 20, 2006 5:00 PM
Stunt plane/helicopter for releasing different color smoke?
by CCat on June 20, 2006 5:00 PM
The fact you mentioned Christmas is making me think, now, it's used to control coloured lights mounted externally to the helo.
Why you want that, I'm not sure. For guiding aircraft in to landings? For communicating with other helicopters in a formation?
*stumped*
by
Nicholas on June 21, 2006 5:04 AM
Yeah, colored lights. Think Close Encounters. For signaling the UFO's.
by CCat on June 21, 2006 8:56 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Jun 19, 2006
May 18, 2006
It's "Whatziss," *not* "Whazzis," John. Geez...
Okay, I guess the suspense kept everybody awake all night, so I wont torture you anymore (oh, wont that sentence draw some trenchcoated traffic from google--cant wait).
The Whatziss is the Shaft Pinion and Reduction (SPR--pronounced spur and so I shall refer to it as such in the narrative) gear from an OH-6A.
Background
Now, because the Loach was intended for scouting in Vietnam and aeroscouts in Vietnam got shot down a lot, the aircraft was designed to be as light, as maneuverable and as inexpensive as possible. Basic flyaway cost of the 65 model was about $12,000, which was cheap enough to put it into the disposable category in the Armys mind.
Hehthe Air Force dropped *bombs* that cost more than that.
However, in addition to being light, maneuverable and inexpensive, the OH-6 was also overpowered, overbuilt and rugged as all get-out. Repairing them wasnt always cost-effective, though, since the Hughes Tool and Die Company (don'tcha just *love* that name!) never did ramp up to producing a lot of spare parts, so, with limited production runs coupled with the usual boondoggles, it was sometimes cheaper to buy a new helicopter than repair the old one. So the Army bought a * lot * of them--over 1,400.
In 1968, the Army decided that Howard Hughes had gotten rich enough off the gummint, ceased purchases of the OH-6 and fielded Bells OH-58. Or, as we called it, the OH-Five-point-Eight--because it wasnt quite as good as a Six.
Then, in 1975, the Army decided to dump allocate anything even remotely reminding it of Vietnam the remaining OH-6s to the National Guardand for the first time ever, the Guard had a better piece of equipment than the Active Army. So, for twenty-plus more years, the little disposable helicopter soldiered on. Found a niche in the civilian world as the Hughes 500, too. But helicopters dont age gracefully--vibration, tension, torsion and corrosion take their toll and metal fatigue inevitably sets in and weakens critical components.
The Problem
Since the shaft pinion and reduction gear was part of the mechanism that reduced 6,000 engine rpm to 497 main rotor rpm, it was a critical component. And one that the book said didnt have to be inspected more often than every 500 flight hours. The Loachs engine was mounted diagonally and the spur gear connected directly from the accessory gearbox to the transmission driveshaft--so in addition to vibration, tension, torsion and corrosion, the gear was also subjected to temperature extremes. But it was tough--remember what I said about the Loach being overbuilt? Unfortunately, it was only overbuilt for a disposable helicopter.
Enter metal fatigue. The steel crystallizes at stress points, the crystals shatter and hairline cracks develop in the shaft walls. The hairline cracks become * big * cracks and, if not discovered, become mini San Andreas faults. Heres where the problems were developing:

Then, one day, the San Andreas goes *ka-rack!*, and you get the following:
The engine, suddenly unloaded from the task of turning the massive gears in the transmission, overspeeds and overheats, in excess of, respectively, 30,000 rpm and 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The pieces of spur gear start rattling around internally and the accessory gearbox eats itself alive. Soon thereafter, the fuel and oil lines surrounding and feeding the engine warp and crack due to the excessive heat and spray aromatic hydrocarbons all over. If youre lucky, it doesnt explode immediately, it just sort of catches fire. And, since the Falklands War pretty much established the fact that aluminum *will* burn, your fuselage joins the action, too.
Meanwhile, the transmission, since its not being powered anymore, decides to take a rest, and the main rotor rpm decays--rapidly. Which means, if youre caught by surprise by the noise in back and the realization that you can now see the individual blades, youve got about a second to enter autorotation, retard the throttle to the idle detent, honk the nose back into a hairy assed pronounced flare to attempt to regain rotor rpm, and pray youre directly above an open field that wont mind hosting the burning, disabled helicopter that just dropped in unannounced.
I just hate it when that happens.
So, for about a month, us Instructor Pilot types did nothing but teach the other guys the symptoms and the cure and practice, practice, practice the emergency procedure. Finally, some bright light said, Heythe civilian models dont have this problem. I wonder why? The answer was simple. Because the Hughes Aircraft and Missile Corporation anticipated that the Hughes 500 would last a good, long while and so made the upper portion of the spur gear wall one millimeter thicker. As in, 1mm.
Great, said the Guard Bureaus Aviation Directorate. Well just install the Hughes 500 spur gear in the OH-6 and everything will be hunky-dory. So Guard Bureau shelled out seven grand apiece for about four hundred civilian spur gears.
Non-milspec spur gears.
The Dnouement
You can see this coming already, cant you? Yup. Some Log Colonel who didnt care *why* Aviation bought the civvie gears had a fit because they were non-standard, snagged the shipment before it could be distributed and had a machine shop mill one millimeter from the thickness of the wall. He thereby turned the new, non-milspec, *good* gears into new, milspec *bad* gears and released them for distribution.
Without telling the Aviation guru what hed done.
Fortunately, the Quality Control guys in hangars around CONUS noticed the shiny, freshly-milled band (Hi-Rez!), broke out the micrometers and quarantined the lot of em.
The word reached the top of the heap and, that afternoon, there was a fresh scalp dangling from a Two-Stars lodge pole.
And, since an IP never passes up a chance to add a busted part to his collection of training aids, I snagged a couple for the IP office before they got sent to the recycle bin. Casual visitors used to spot the one on my desk and ask, Whazzat?
So, I labeled it for their benefit.

I can get downright artistic with White-Out
* * * * * * * * * * * *
Epilogue
From HomefrontSix:
Mac sez:
The cut into the valleys is too deep. This is evident by the machining grooves that can be seen in the buttress. ie the bevel at the bottom of the top gear. If the cut was made to the proper depth, machine marks would not be seen below the bottom of the top gear. The depth of this cut has negated any additional strength that the buttress might have provided.
Heh. MacGyver twigged that it was too thin and he spotted the extraneous milling--not *perfect*, but I'd say it's close enough for an FFE. I'm quietly proud that a fellow brooding, introverted, anticipator of trouble got it before one of the buoyantly extroverted stiff-wing polishers.
And, as usual, Boq cut right to the chase.
Discoloration on The Vanes??? Why, I think that those polychromatic shades of patina confers an august je-ne-sai-quois to that paper weight ;)
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Geez, Bill. I don't think I've *ever* been quite *that* mean to the players 'round cheer.
That's like putting up a pic of a... that has... hmmmm.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 18, 2006 6:45 AM
Well, considering what we had to work with, I'd say we did pretty good.
Several of us said it's a gear-thing-a-ma-bob, and that's pretty much what it is.
Cool story Bill!
by AFSister on May 18, 2006 8:38 AM
Geez, Bill. I don't think I've *ever* been quite *that* mean to the players 'round cheer.
Right. What if I'd said, "Hey, anybody wanna see a bunch of pix of an expensive but totally worthless gear from a helicopter that was obsolescent in 1988?"
*sitemeter cranking wildly into negative numbers*
AFSis - Well, considering what we had to work with, I'd say we did pretty good.
Yup--you're just gonna need some coaching on the terminology. Technically, it's not a gear-thing-a-ma-bob, it's a squashed-cog-looking-doohickey...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 18, 2006 1:28 PM
Rats.
When will I *ever* learn the difference between a thing-a-ma-bob and a doohickey? *sigh*
At least I know what a haversack is.
by AFSister on May 18, 2006 1:41 PM
Haversack? It's in North Jersey, where the Giants stuck their stadium. Jimmy Hoffa's buried under the home team goal post, btw.
And under the refreshment stand on the mezzanine.
And under the exit ramp going to the Kilmer rest area.
And in the cranberry bog just outside of...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 18, 2006 1:51 PM
I knew there was a reason I married the man however, being able to answer questions like these wasn't the reason! ;)
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on May 18, 2006 8:35 PM
Ummm--would the sobriquet "MacGyver" have anything to do with it?
*Not* thinking of any duct tape applications, of course. No, no, no, no, no.
BTW, KtLW tagged me with that nickname, too--mostly because the Swiss Army knife I carry is the size of a Tom Clancy novel and I actually know how to use all the blades on the sucker...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 18, 2006 10:54 PM
His "MacGyver"-ness comes in handy in more than a few locations...we'll just leave it at that ;)
He picked up the nickname in college because of his ability to fix just about anything with minimal toolage. His Leatherman was his best friend for a LONG time and right after we got to this mid-sized turd in the middle of the Pacific, the car died on us in the parking lot of the PX. MacGyver got it running again with nothing more than a screwdriver and his Leatherman. He's quite handy...
And he (and I) prefers 100 mph tape over duct tape any day. Holds up much better under a variety of conditions. However, I *do* like the way you think ;)
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on May 18, 2006 11:59 PM
Nothing beats the glossy OD 100mph tape for adherence, but the matte green comes close. The matte OD and regular grey duct tape are about equal. But I scored some HVAC special--aluminized--stuff a few years back that sticks like epoxy to anything except waxed paper. Only problem is, you need metal shears to cut it.
I have a great fondness for the 3M folks--I had to make a night emergency landing at their (long-abandoned) industrial airstrip about thirty years ago. If it hadn't been where it was, I would have wound up in a frozen-over swamp.
by cw4(ret)billt on May 19, 2006 5:57 AM
Hmmm. His "MacGyver"-ness comes is handy in more than a few locations ...;) [emphasis mine]
I'm thinking that covers the essentials... so to speak.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 19, 2006 6:35 AM
John ~ lmao! Yes, that covers the essentials.
BillT ~ I believe MacGyver has some of the aluminized tape of which you speak that he reserves for...special...occasions. Glad you didn't wind up in the swamp. That would have been messy.
by
HomefrontSix on May 19, 2006 12:52 PM
*That* explains the red marks on your wrists at the conference. And here I thought it was red-head sun reax.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 19, 2006 1:25 PM
John ~ I'll never tell...that's why they call it a private life. heh.
by
HomefrontSix on May 20, 2006 2:47 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
May 18, 2006
�
MilBlogs links with:
A whodunit...
May 17, 2006
Whatziss (with a twist)
Im sure youve all heard the military procurement horror stories -- the $500 hammer, the coffeemaker for the C-5 that was built to withstand G-forces that would turn the crew two-dimensional, the Air Defense system that showed a preference for engaging the broad side of a barn rather than an attacking aircraft, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Some of the tales are the result of the investigative reporter jiggering the figures, some are the result of imperfectly-written specifications, some are genuine cases of Waste, Fraud n Abuse and still others are the result of what Dusty so aptly described as Pugnacious Stupidity.
The ol My mind is made up -- dont confuse me with the facts Syndrome.
The reg sez thus-and-such, therefore thus-and-such it is and ever shall be -- even though the (never identified) reg may refer to something else entirely. Or the reg might just be flat-out wrong -- it was written by a human being, after all (the classic appeared in a series of changes to the OH-6A Operator's Manual, defining FARs -- Federal Aviation Regulations -- as Flying Aircraft Regulations). Or, the reg might have been correct when written, but is now hopelessly outdated.
The most expensive item in my little museum came to me courtesy of outdated specs augmented by a slavish adherence to the regs. This little beauty (*not* the needle-nosers) cost the National Guard $7,000 in 1988 dollars, as did each of its four-hundred-odd brethren.

What was it worth upon delivery, after its rather tortuous journey through the procurement process?
Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Nema. Rien. Nulla. Khng. Nichts. ничто. For its intended application, anyway.
The reason for its transition from a shot-peen-hardened, single-block-milled, fairly expensive aircraft part to a shot-peen-hardened, single-block-milled, fairly expensive hunk of junk is visible in the pic below:

And, for the metallurgical detectives among you, heres the Hi-Rez.
Geez, I even impress *me* with how good Im getting at this close-up stuff.
Well, first off -- what is it? you inquire. Well, since its kind of an esoteric part, and since youd have to be an especially groggish grognard to know for absolute certain-sure what it is, I think Ill be lousy, mean, rotten and spiteful and let you guess. Even Jon the Knuckle-skinner is gonna find this one a toughie.
But I can use the chuckles.
Ummmm, sorry, Miz HomefrontSix, maam, its not the gear that stows the rotor blades in flight to allow you to activate an ejection seat.
*going totally queasy at that visual*
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Bill, I'm not sure what it is yet, but I'm betting the gov't would have returned the item if it hadn't been made as ordered, so either:
1) The s/n engraved on the part that's shiny ruined it, since that part of the gear is supposed act like a bearing and sit in a clamp or seat (and rotate in there).
OR
2) The gear was cut properly (IAW the spec), but the teeth of one ring are cut backwards
Just guessing...
V/R
by
sangerM on May 17, 2006 5:24 AM
Hiya, Sanger!
1. The item was manufactured as ordered and the s/n engraving, while a tad unorthodox, is located in a noncritical area.
2. See #1. The gearing orientation is okay.
As usual, hints are scattered in the rotorwash.
by cw4(ret)billt on May 17, 2006 5:55 AM
Bill,
I'm guessing that the mettalurgy changes do to either heat or pressure and caused the part to go out of shape. You can see discoloration, which looks like heat bluing, on the vanes.
Probably out to lunch, but that's my guess.....
Respects,
AW1 Tim
by Gwedd on May 17, 2006 6:47 AM
The initial runs of the gear did not get full tooth contact, so something is out of shape, I think. You can see that in the lozenge shape wear marks on the teeth, rather than full width contact.
by
SezaGeoff on May 17, 2006 6:51 AM
Discoloration on The Vanes??? Why, I think that those polychromatic shades of patina confers an august je-ne-sai-quois to that paper weight ;)
Oh - 'Tis nice to hear from you SangerM
by Boquisucio on May 17, 2006 6:54 AM
AW1 Tim - The pic was shot under fluorescents, which is prolly where the burn-blue came from. Have a beer for *me* at lunch, too.
SezaGeoff - The lozenge shapes are part of the finishing process rather than from wear. The part itself is brand-new; the lozenges would disappear during the first hour or so of run-time.
Boq - The Prescient Puerto Rican! The Mind-Reading Moatmaster! Wait 'til you see the last pic in the dnouement--haaaaa!
by cw4(ret)billt on May 17, 2006 7:06 AM
Since you hint at outdated specs...I'm going to say that the teeth should be curved.
by Anonymous on May 17, 2006 7:38 AM
It is some kind of planet gear, possibly from the tail rotor gearbox / transmission. I'm a fixed wing guy, I stay away from that whirlybird stuff (a.k.a. a flying oil leak on its way to a crash).
by
Chris Taylor on May 17, 2006 9:50 AM
The upper, smaller set of gear teeth have some sort of extra teeth, with an odd slope to the "tooth height" from bottom to top of the piece? Or am I seeing things?
It makes a nice background for my monitor this week, I look forward to the definitive answers to both what-it-is and why-its-worng.
by Ausin Mike on May 17, 2006 9:51 AM
Looks a lot like the flywheel for an engine. The thing I don't get is why the grooves in the gear-looking-thingie tilt to the right on the bottom, and to the left on the top. Seems like they're working against each other.
Perhaps it's for the tail blades??
by AFSister on May 17, 2006 12:29 PM
is it cuz the cuts betwixt the smaller teeth intrude too far south into the curvy such zone?
by
MajMike on May 17, 2006 1:16 PM
It looks like a transmission gear of some sort.
My theories:
1. Is the part made from the wrong metal? It appears to be some discoloration/rust on the left half of the piece.
2. Is the recess around the larger ring of teeth excessive? Given the depth of the cut there is little material left to support the outer ring.
by MrFrost on May 17, 2006 1:48 PM
MajMike... I'm not sure it's possible for teeth of any size to intrude too far south into the curvy zone. At least that's been my experience.
*wink*
by Were-Kitten on May 17, 2006 2:28 PM
Has the wrong part number engraved on it. Confused the beddezers outta everyone...
by
MM2 on May 17, 2006 3:02 PM
Since he who flies a blender called me ou on this one, I am going to have to say that it looks like the reduction gear in a transfer case of some sort.
However, since none of the vehicles I work on were like Bill's first car and designed by Henry Ford, I can not tell you specifically where it comes from.
And WK, it IS possible for teeth to intrude too far. When blood is drawn, they have gone too far.
by
Jon The Mechanic on May 17, 2006 4:03 PM
Since it's a double-gear and probably just rides a bearing... no keyway if it's supposed to be driven by a prop shaft?
by
John of Argghhh! on May 17, 2006 4:07 PM
does it matter that in the top view theinnercut is
not so much a circle but an oblong?
by Ben on May 17, 2006 4:39 PM
and not centered--
by Ben on May 17, 2006 4:41 PM
...it's a double-gear and probably just rides a bearing...
Heh. If it just rode a bearing, what rendered it worthless wouldn't have mattered.
Got some rounds real close, but still not within bursting radius. Lotta techie talent appearing, too, based on observations such as the grooves in the gear-looking-thingie tilt to the right on the bottom, and to the left on the top.
by cw4(ret)billt on May 17, 2006 4:41 PM
if rides on a bearing _wouldn"t the eccentric cut of
the possible bearing seat make its rotation both ingaged and disingaged 'If' the center is the bearing seat.'If'
by Ben on May 17, 2006 4:57 PM
I give up. Don't know where that Gear, Worm Wheel goes into.
{snipped because it's too good to leave in a comment!}
by Boquisucio on May 17, 2006 6:08 PM
I'm not going to be able to live the ejector seat thing down, am I? *da%n* Ah, well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, I suppose. In my defense, I had momentarily forgotten that we were talking about helicopter parts and was focusing on fixed wing aircraft at the time.
As for the gear, WHY do I always get to these things AFTER MacGyver goes to work? Grr. Time to start digging.
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on May 17, 2006 6:31 PM
Gear teeth and hub appear discolored... improper heat treating during manufacture???
by
Mike47 on May 17, 2006 6:48 PM
Gear teeth and hub appear discolored... improper heat treating during manufacture???
by
Mike47 on May 17, 2006 6:48 PM
Ben - That's just the off-angle perspective. The shaft's perfectly round, but I couldn't shoot straight down without my shadow obscuring it.
Hf6 - I'm not going to be able to live the ejector seat thing down, am I? *da%n*.
I'll cut some slack for anyone who can keep Maggie even *halfway* out of trouble after sundown.
Not much, but some...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 17, 2006 6:52 PM
It's probably just like Spinal Tap's StoneHenge. Someone screwed up the scale in the spec and it's too small.
by Rich on May 17, 2006 7:25 PM
I don't know that I kept Maggie out of any trouble while we were in D.C. but she sure didn't get INTO any trouble while she was with me...not sure that counts but it's worth a shot!
And, no, the half-moon did NOT get her into any trouble!
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on May 17, 2006 7:43 PM
One set of teeth are cut with the helix pointed wrong-handedly?
Maggie: As I wrote, and the Chief verified in a previous thread, *sideways* ejection seats will get you out of the aircraft. You just might be all bent and twisted, afterwards.
by
Justthisguy on May 17, 2006 8:34 PM
JTG - Maggie is Princess Crabby, *not* HFS (HomeFrontSix).
Dude, you've simply *got* to do a better job of Denizenne Recognition.
Report for retraining.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 17, 2006 9:00 PM
B-b-but Sir, she *mentioned* Maggie in her last comment, and that confused me!
OK, Mea maxima culpa, I dood it. (blushes)
by
Justthisguy on May 17, 2006 9:10 PM
And here I thought the Sgt York had a preference for shooting the ventilation fans on a field latrine instead of a helicopter.
Not sure who put the latrine downrange.
by
Heartless Libertarian on May 17, 2006 10:00 PM
JTG - but MAN...what a COMPLIMENT to have been confused with Miss Maggie ;) She and I do have the crabbiness in common...
BillT - no more clues?? C'mon...help a girl out here! MacGyver isn't home yet!
by
HomefrontSix on May 17, 2006 10:02 PM
Ok - MacGyver finally made it home. He says it looks like a transmission gear and that, from the top view, it's not centered. The entire shaft is off center.
The other observation he had was that, in the second picture, the teeth on the top part of the gear seem to hang down and are not flush at the bottom. Not sure if this is a problem since we don't know what its purpose is.
by
HomefrontSix on May 17, 2006 11:00 PM
Have MacGyver turn in his duct tape for recalibration and then read Ben's comment and my reply.
The bottoms of the top teeth are buttressed--re-inforced at a potential trouble spot. Keeps 'em from cracking and splitting.
Here's a hint: Old Helicopter. Like, from 'way before you had reached double-digits on your birthday cake--1988.
by cw4(ret)billt on May 18, 2006 1:37 AM
Mac sez:
The cut into the valleys is too deep. This is evident by the machining grooves that can be seen in the buttress. ie the bevel at the bottom of the top gear. If the cut was made to the proper depth, machine marks would not be seen below the bottom of the top gear. The depth of this cut has negated any additional strength that the buttress might have provided.
by
HomefrontSix on May 18, 2006 3:12 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
May 17, 2006
�
Alphecca links with:
Your Tax Dollars At Work
�
MilBlogs links with:
Seasoned Helo pilots...
May 11, 2006
Whatziss? Is Ziss...
...and resist the temptation to spend all the time googling Bill's thrice-dam*ed "Whazziss?".
I hate it when John whines. He never serves the proper cheese...
*segue*
...cheese, you guys were woefully shortchanged during your survival training (you prolly drew the SEAL for an instructor--they have a tough time with the concept of "fire" as something you make, as opposed to something you call for).
"simple, it's a butain lighter from a survival kit"--Mudpuppy1975 got it!

Lighter, butane, refillable--the firestarter kit from the SRU-21/P Aviator's Survival Vest. Bigger pic (easier to see the details, not necessarily higher resolution. John doesn't call me Twitchy Bill for zero reason...) here.
If they'd just made 'em "Lighter, butane," they probably wouldn't have had the reliability problem--the critters osmoted butane past the O-ring gaskets. I wasn't there, but I can just about guarantee the following conversation took place between the R&D geeks: "...and if we make them refillable, all the pilot has to do when he runs out is go to the nearest convenience store and buy a can of butane in the tobacco section."
You *can* refill them, btw. On both the MkI and the MkII, the spark wheel and flint module pop out and expose the refill valve--a quarter of an inch deeper than any commercial refill head will reach, so you have to combine two of the adapter nozzles (and different ones for each--gotta love standardization like that ) to do the trick. Which is a pain, but worth it when you pull it out in some dive uhhhhh gin mill intimate little club to light a lady's cig and she says, "Oooooooh--interesting lighter. Where'd you get it?"
The other problem (operator-induced) the MkI has is that, if you twist the control head much past a quarter-turn and flick the spark wheel, you get a six-foot-long flame, albeit for about three seconds. It could attract undesired attention in an evasion situation. However, since you probably wouldn't even *think* of starting a campfire in the midst of the baddie battalion beating the bushes for you, it's a moot point.
I was only semi-surprised that V29 didn't pick up on it, since we were only issued a vest (one per aircraft, *not* one per crewman--that's still another shortage we had) on rare occasions.
I actually got to wear one twice.
*shrug*
Actually, that's kinda moot, too. Down where we were, a survival kit was two personal weapons and 50 rounds for each of them--because if you went down and didn't hookup with friendlies within ten minutes, you became an Alamo re-enactor while the other side came at you with the Degello playing in the background...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Well Bill, in a hundred years I would'nt have gotten that. Wear a vest? Shoot I don't even remember seeing one. My survival kit comprised one ea., .38, grease gun and big honkin knife.
BTW, smoked back then, so had my own Zippo which was also refillable and which the Ruff Puffs insisted on stealing from the console. I must have gone through about a doazen of them.
by
V29 on May 11, 2006 6:54 AM
V29 - M1911 with extended mag, sawed-off M2 and General Buck (he of the long, sharp tooth). You shoulda kept the Zippo in your shoulder pocket (I kept a Vu-Lighter in the kangaroo pouch and--geez, I got a great TINS about that one. Speaking of TINS, I found a decent map of that area west of Moc Hoa where the Mike-boat got popped with the RPG. I'm including it in the story, if it won't send you into flashback mode...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 11, 2006 7:11 AM
No flashbacks in a long time. Just some scary memories that time seems to age and soothe as it passes. Life is but a dream..........
by
V29 on May 11, 2006 7:51 AM
Comrades,
Nice to have a lighter. The USN issued me one of those OD plastic matchsafes and stick matches with my LPA. Also had pencil flares, knife, shroud cutter, dye marker, salt-water activated strobe light, and other odds and ends.
They gave me a .38 revolver as well. I asked them if I had to take it, and they said no. I was more worried about hurting myself with it than anyone else. The .38 I replaced with my own .45 M1911.
Memories.......
Respects,
AW1 Tim
by AW1 Tim on May 11, 2006 8:36 AM
V29 beat me to the obvious "Boys and girls, can you say Zippo?" comment. I quit smoking a coupla years ago, but still keep mine handy and full. It's, like, *low-tech* and hence always works. I reckon you could put one in a Ziploc (of course!) baggy to slow evap in hot climates. If they won't allow it in an airliner, it's obviously something you need to have.
Oh, BTW, the foot comment was directed at The Armorer.
P.s. I still have my ancient chrome-plated brass Boy Scout match safe, and lots of strike-anywheres.
by
Justthisguy on May 11, 2006 3:00 PM
Jtg - Unfortunately, the WTFs leaked regardless of temperature--it was a combination of O-rings from the lowest bidder combined with an original fill of something like 0.00003psi above ambient--there just wasn't enough *shove* from the inside to make a tight seal. I spent a fruitless half hour a decade ago trying to replace the O-ring in the MkI with a thicker one, on the theory that tightening it during reassembly would create a better seal.
Exercise. In. Frustration.
BTW--*what* foot comment? I miss a lot these days.
AW1 Tim - I hope you packed the matches head-down. That sandpaper on the inside of the cap can turn a match case into a pipe bomb if the lucifers aren't stored properly. And, IMHO, you made an excellent choice of sidearm--about the only way to hurt somebody with a .38 is to pistol-whip him with it, especially if he's pumping adrenalin. I left the one I was supposed to be carrying in my dufflebag, wrapped in an oiled rag...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 11, 2006 4:29 PM
Ah, I think I made some chaos on the original thread about these objects, which I made worse when trying to clarify what I wrote.
I was yelling at JoA to put that foot up, dammit!
To get back to what you just said; Those were some expensive complicated govt. solutions to a problem already solved by the Zippo people years and years ago. I mean, anyone can buy multiple Zippos, and stash them all about his person and equipment; surely one or two will survive the horrible crash?
by
Justthisguy on May 11, 2006 4:55 PM
Chief(ret.), I hope my sweety doesn't read what you wrote above. She carries a .38 J-frame. Of course, hers is loaded with Gold Dots, not the insipid inaccurate incompetent silly ball rounds issued by the .gov.
by
Justthisguy on May 11, 2006 5:25 PM
Of course not, JTG. *She's* not subject to the Conventions.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 11, 2006 6:38 PM
One of the few nice things about the .38 is the plentitude of wadcutters available for feeding the cute li'l thing.
"Honest, sir, we were on our way out to the berm for some practice on a couple of C-rat cartons when these guys came under the wire with a satchel charge. Yessir, I'll get some paper towels and clean up the mess before Group Six gets here..."
I've got a hunch that a Zippo wrapped in cellophane (*not* a ZipLoc baggie) then duct taped along the seam will retain enough fluid for a whole bunch of lights, even after six months or so. If not, you can still pull out the cotton wadding and throw sparks on it until it catches. Zippos were great for lighting off the little stoves we made out of c-rat cans. You can praise MRE food straight to heaven--although even Natick Labs won't do *that*--but you still can't make anything usable out of the packaging...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 11, 2006 9:58 PM
All I'm gonna say is there's a reason Zippo's been in business for almost 75 years.
Damn good lighters.
by
Harvey on May 13, 2006 7:06 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
May 11, 2006
May 9, 2006
Whatziss?
That whole incident with the water buffalo and the ninja spider was highly exaggerated. For one thing, I've never used a wrench on a spider in assault mode--a simple *flick* of the index finger and he becomes HALO qualified.
If you use a wrench, you can't see the look on his face when he hits the slipstream.
And if I'd inadvertently plunked down in the immediate proximity of a water buffalo, I'd at least have had the presence of mind to use today's "Okay--WTF is that?" on him.

The dummy 20mm round is just there to provide a sense of scale--these doohickies were hand-operated. When they worked at all, they worked well, but they *did* have a reliability problem, especially the MkI, pictured at center--you had to remove the protective knurled sleeve, then arm it with a counterclockwise quarter-turn; if you didn't turn it far enough, it wouldn't function at all, and if you turned it too far, it became just as hazardous to you as to the target. If your fingers were wet, you were up the creek.
They solved that problem in the MkII by adding a small function bar with a mechanical stop. It also ameliorated the reliability problem, somewhat, but it was just as dangerous if you panicked and pushed it past the stop.
And no, these aren't live. The initiating mechanisms are intact, but the *boom* stuff...ummmmmm--*went away*--a long time back.
ROFASix and Outlaw 13 probably know what they are (I know V29 does--heh!), and some of the older Special Ops guys might have had a chance to play with the MkII. It took me about three minutes to Google a pic of the MkI (and it was for sale, too. Some people have no sense of historical significance...)
I figure it should take all of fifteen minutes for *somebody* to hit it. I owed you guys an easy one after the water gauge...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
It's been a loooooong fifteen minutes, guys, so here's a hint:
Check my comment to Bloodspite. The HEEDS is a cylinder containing a compressed gas (air)--that's the track that needs further exploration.
John: The link to the MkI is still there--the guy bills it as "Rare" and wants $39.95 for it. Only reason it's "rare" is because the WTFs that survived Vietnam got sent to the National Guard (part of the usual Army hand-me-downs played up in the Army Times as *modernizing* the Guard), from whence they were transferred to the nearest dumpster when the Life Support techs found out how unreliable they were--and the reason!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Heh. Now I know what it feels like to be on the end of one of my posers.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 9, 2006 8:38 AM
Hmmm, let me see, it's a long cylindrical object with a protective knobbed sleeve that had to be carefully hand operated to make sure it went off at the appropriate time.
What ever could that be?
:)
by Masked Menace on May 9, 2006 8:43 AM
Self-expanding White Phosphorous Water Buffalo Treats?
by
Bad Cat Robot on May 9, 2006 1:54 PM
I'm guessing some kind of diversion charge to help make ones escape. My first thought was an area denial mine/bomblet, but the arming process seems a little cumbersome for that....
by
Pogue on May 9, 2006 4:36 PM
Well Bill, old age and CRS don't help. I don't really remember, if I ever knew, what that is. Vaguely remember something that spread dye to mark targets that could be prosecuted later.
by
V29 on May 9, 2006 5:38 PM
Geez, am I the *only* guy around this place that's taught Aviation Survival and Evasion?!!?
And with that boatload of hints, too...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 9, 2006 5:56 PM
Looks a bit like a emergency breathing aparatus but I'm probably wrong.
by
BloodSpite on May 9, 2006 6:12 PM
Bill, what with all the castle kittens around, who's evading?
by Masked Menace on May 9, 2006 6:36 PM
Hmmm, while I can't find anything that matches it on the net - the *launcher* for a SAR flare?
by
John of Argghhh! on May 9, 2006 6:52 PM
Bloodspite - A HEEDS (Helicopter Emergency Egress Device) bottle is a *lot* bigger than the WTFs are, and the WTFs don't function properly when wet (hence, the protective cap). Go a little further down the same track...
MM - The kittens hadn't even been *born* back when we carried the WTFs around!
Did I score points then, or what? *nudge-nudge* *wink-wink*
by cw4(ret)billt on May 9, 2006 6:57 PM
John - Nope. Right church, wrong pew. The flares used the protective cap, though, not the launcher. But thanks for the reminder.
Heh--now, where'd I stash those flares?
by cw4(ret)billt on May 9, 2006 7:02 PM
Hand held (or launched) smoke discharger for daylight marking?
by Rod Thorsen on May 9, 2006 11:10 PM
OK, I'm shotgunnig (or applying Sherlock's Law) it here. Inflation device for a raft, balloon, etc.
by Rod Thorsen on May 9, 2006 11:15 PM
OK, last one I promise. Some kinda bizarro autoinjector for some unknown substance that convinces rotorheads that they really are in control of the "loose formation of parts flying in formation". Hee, sorry.
by Rod Thorsen on May 9, 2006 11:29 PM
Dye marker for an over water egress situation?
by
Sgt. B. on May 9, 2006 11:34 PM
Hmmm - Does KtLW approve of using her gossamer duvet cover as a prop for a rubber ribbbed tipped device?
by Boquisucio on May 10, 2006 11:14 AM
From the comments, and noting that it would be Before My Time as a Gulf War I vet, I am wondering if it is a handheld starshell flare or a handheld parachute flare. But those tend to be longer than 20mm round, in civilian form.
I do think you are tricking people though, by having the top of the WTF placed to the bottom of the picture. The 1/4 turn being necessary to create the effect out the top.
by MunDane on May 10, 2006 1:11 PM
Hmmmm... CS dispenser maybe?
by
Pogue on May 10, 2006 1:42 PM
MunDane - I do think you are tricking people though, by having the top of the WTF placed to the bottom of the picture. The 1/4 turn being necessary to create the effect out the top.
Long time no see--welcome back! But sorry, no cigar--the WTFs are depicted bottom=bottom and top=top.
Pogue - You *know* how frikkin' huge a helicopter-mounter dispenser is. Why would I settle for a miniscule CS spritzer?
Whoop. Darn. More clues on the loose.
by cw4(ret)billt on May 10, 2006 4:37 PM
Is it an impulse cartridge for an ejection seat?
My damn Adobe Acrobat isn't working so I'm having trouble pulling up anything visual. Grr...
by
HomefrontSix on May 10, 2006 8:14 PM
Heh. I can imagine the life support techs might take a dim view of an ejection seat in a UH-1...
by
John of Argghhh! on May 10, 2006 8:24 PM
simple, it's a butain lighter from a survival kit
by Mudpuppy1975 on May 10, 2006 8:48 PM
Mudpuppy: A sideways ejection seat is perfectly *possible*. I think the B-45 had one. Now that's a guaranteed wide-open money faucet for chiropractors.
by
Justthisguy on May 10, 2006 11:31 PM
Umm, sorry; meant to address above comment to The Armorer. Which reminds me: You put that foot up, boy! Hear?
by
Justthisguy on May 10, 2006 11:35 PM
JTG - quoting:
Among the early airplanes with ejection capabilities for navigators were the B-45 and B-47 medium bombers. The former, a straight-wing 450 mile-per-hour jet, featured a sideways ejection seat for the navigator sitting in the nose. When it was time to bail out, the B-45 navigator left via the port-side hatch as his seat threw him clear of the craft. Of course there was some danger of hitting the engine pod, but when it's time to leave, it's time to leave.
Somewhat less of a danger zone than a rotor disk...
Quote lifted from here.
And my foot is up. Except when it isn't.
by
John of Argghhh! on May 11, 2006 12:06 AM
And we have a winnah!
simple, it's a butain lighter from a survival kit
Mudpuppy1975 got it, although technically they're from the survival *vest* (SRU-21/P) rather than a kit, per se, and I won't knock points off for spelling...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 11, 2006 12:14 AM
Good job Mudpuppy!
by
John of Argghhh! on May 11, 2006 7:22 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
May 09, 2006
May 7, 2006
Ninja Spiders, Water Buffalo, Guardian Angels
That can only mean one thing. Bill and Beer.
This morning I found a packet nailed to the portcullis as I went to pick up local recycle fodder.
My first thought was I had an ecclesiastical crisis, which is strange since the Castle is not an ecclesiastical seat of anything. I did check the scanners for KWiPs (Kossacks With Pitchforks), but it was clear. I do that every morning before raising the 'cullis. Even the Moat Monsters and Drawbridge troll won't eat them. I turned my attention to the packet. It was wrapped in a hastily handwritten note. All it said was: "See what we have to put up with!?!"
When I unwrapped the note, out fell a ragged white feather of radiant purity.
And the attached Army Accident Report form. Badly tattered and stained. I swear some of those stains look pretty salty, too.
Ahhhhhh. [light goes on] Carborundum, Bill's Guardian Angel, was by last night. Probably drunk again. He can't ever remember his Portcullis PIN when he's drunk, and he's too conscientious to fly in that condition. Ahem.
Must be because of this. Bill still needs his GAs even now that he's retired, and especially moreso since one of his GA Remotes was recalled to Piddler's Green for debriefing and rest.
Though she did leave a sensor behind.
1. Summary: Helicopter impacted water buffalo during evening transit.
Helicopter trampled and gored.
2. [Oil stain]
3. Circumstances.
A. Origin. Some godforsaken hellhole with a quonset hut, I dont remember, they all look alike to me.
B. Mission. Morale improvement [of pilot, buddies, and anybody else wanting a beer]
C. FLT purpose code. B33R.
4. [eaten by insects]
5. Damage and costs.
A. Helicopter.
1. Effectively destroyed, unless somebody comes up with an entire skid and most of the components usually found on the left side. Plus the rotor got gnawed on a bit. And a wrench-sized hole in front windshield.
B. Army property damage. 20 kegs beer, $119.60. [handwritten: Really?][handwritten in by different hand: Nobody said get *good* beer, did they?]
C. Non DoD property damage. Bruised and irritated water buffalo, property of some guy yelling at me and no, I didnt get his name. I could identify the water buffalo in a lineup, as long as it was restrained. Those things hold a grudge.
6. Personnel information, injuries and costs.
A. Souls on board. two, including enemy stowaway.
B. Crew. Pilot at controls, callsign SugarButtons (SB), on duty, injury to third point of contact, claimed shot off, claim not supported by medical staff.
C. Total number of passengers. One stowaway, fatal injury during hand-to-hand combat.[handwritten:It was a goddam SPIDER, and I dont care what Tuttle says it is NOT Viet Cong.]
7 [missing pages]
(8) Chronology
(A) (P) All times local. times from 2000 to 0438 are approximate.
07:00 - SB awakes.
11:45 - SB gets crappy lunch.
12:15 - SB given yet another do-the-impossible-immediately mission, making 6 total for the day. [handwritten: Dont we have a code for those?].
13:05 - SB pulls off immediate and impossible. Chewed out for lateness.
14:00 - SB tightens Jesus Nut with wrench (Exhibit A).
14:34 - Helicopter develops mange in tail boom, requires maintenance.
14:57 (est) - Stowaway enters helicopter, takes concealed position above pilots seat.
15:32 - Helicopter declared mange-free, SB returns to duty as bullet magnet.
17:45 - SB gets crappy dinner.
18:00 - SB featured participant in self-criticism exercise.
19:30 - SB heard to say Oh God, I need a drink
19:31 - SB hears of source of large quantities of beer, takes off to locate same.
20:10 - SB obtains and stows 20 kegs beer, takes off to return to base.
20:27:10 - Stowaway deploys internal ninja rappel line, attacks SB.
20:27:12 - radio transmission AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
20:27:13 - SB grabs wrench (Exhibit A), swings at stowaway. Stowaway performs evasive maneuvers.
20:27:16 - SB uses overhand swing to smash stowaway with wrench. Stowaway killed instantly, body not recovered. Wrench penetrates windshield. [handwritten: Did we get any injury claims due to falling wrench?]
20:27:18 - SB notices negative altitude progression, pauses victory celebration to level helicopter.
20:27:19 - Impact of helicopter left skid with startled water buffalo.
20:27:21 - Helicopter tilts and lands in non-regulation manner on side. Enraged water buffalo is entangled in skid. Beer kegs break loose from restraints.
20:27:22 - Rogue beer keg drops under water buffalo.
20:28 - Water buffalo steps on beer keg during attempted destruction of helicopter, keg is stuck on left hind hoof.
20:31 - SB exits helicopter, circles under cover of foliage, and attracts attention of water buffalo.
20:32 - Enraged water buffalo rights helicopter attempting to attack SB.
20:35 - SB leaves jacket on stick as decoy, saunters back to helicopter, restows beer, and takes off. Enraged water buffalo is still entangled in left skid.
20:51 - Water buffalo undocks from helicopter. Takes skid as war prize.
21:15 - SB arrives with beer, and there is much rejoicing.
04:20 - Maintenance chief notices helicopter missing skid and most of left side parked on pad.
04:20:03 - Heard throughout base: TUTTLE!
04:25:05 - SB heard to say It wasnt me!
04:38 - SB states damage sustained by VC action and sabotage.
9,10. [more missing pages]
11. analysis.
a. Aircrew factor - SB failed to notice water buffalo. Rejected. Water buffalo had no night running lights or luminous markers.
b.Aircrew factor - SB had anticipated party and gotten hammered. Rejected. All available evidence including witness statements indicate SB could not have done any of the above actions impaired by alcohol, plus it would take more than the one missing keg to do it.
C. Enemy action - VC spider attacked SB to capture beer and/or helicopter. Rejected. There is absolutely no evidence enemy cadres have sunk to enlisting arachnids. Spider was most likely an independent actor.
D. Act of God - meteor strike. Rejected. All damage to helicopter was on lower surfaces. Meteors strike from above, and even Tuttle cant fly a helicopter upside down. We think.
E. Bad Luck - These Things Just Happen, Especially to Tuttle (TTJHET). Accepted. Prior accident reports attached as reference.
Who: Aircrew, pilot at controls, TUTTLE!!!!
What: Bad Luck, TTJHET, ninja spiders
Why: malign fate, complacency, and problem not forseeable. I mean, who anticipates ninja spiders?
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Hmmmm... looks more like an abortive attempt to bring back some steaks with the beer... nice try, though!
by Neffi on May 7, 2006 9:32 AM
Is this for real? o.O
by
Stormy Dragon on May 7, 2006 12:28 PM
Stormy - hard to say. The water buffalo isn't talking.
That's a good one - thanks for the morning grins :-)
by
Barb on May 7, 2006 12:49 PM
I've always known the spiders were VC!
by
Murray on May 7, 2006 7:09 PM
VC? Regular NVA I should think... North Vietnamese Arachnids, to be precise.
by Neffi on May 7, 2006 9:15 PM
A foul canard.
I get up at 0530, *not* 0700. And the spider had a satchel charge...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 8, 2006 6:20 AM
Ahh yes. Without yeast modified libations, it's hard to face 10,000 flying parts with confidence. Even if a couple of them are pilfered by a local cloven-footed miscreant.
@@@
by Boquisucio on May 8, 2006 7:29 AM
I beg to differ, spiders of all types are an international terrorist plot, obviously reaching far back in time and widespread in distribution.
(Between this story and lawdog's mongoose story, my co-worker's KNOW I'm nuts. I sit in my cubbie over in the corner and snicker.....)
by Karla (threadbndr) on May 8, 2006 10:14 AM
I'll be laughing about this all morning.
by
hdw on May 9, 2006 8:03 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
May 2, 2006
But whaddya do with the empties?
The Ma Deuce is a nice weapon and trying to set the headspace and timing on one when you've misplaced the li'l gunner's widget is an interesting way to pass an afternoon.
However, I prefer a round that makes a bang at initiation *and* at termination. One that's also a tad larger than the .50 cal...

Pulling both of those out of your pocket during a Hangar Tour always got the kids' attention. And showing them the gun that fired it and how it was fed always presented a nice opportunity to teach them about gearing ratios, transducers and transformers, voltage regulators and a bit of physics. Heh--and "links" meant something other than "read what this blogger has to say"...

Now, an expended 20mm shell casing is a marvelous thing. Large enough to be useful at work, either after a slight modification...

...or without. Just think artistically...

However, the ultimate use for the expended casing was to turn it into something functional in the field, especially something that would enhance certain occasions--such as those al fresco interludes involving you and your MRE...
Heh.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Oooooo - the 20x102mm!!! Nuthin' sez GOOD MORNING, like three-and-a-half ounces worth of heavy metals and organoleptic compounds comming at ya at 3,200 ft/sec. Wakey-wakey sleepy head.
Oh, and the middle PIX is sure to be Neff's favorite.
by Boquisucio on May 2, 2006 10:18 AM
Nuthin' sez GOOD MORNING, like three-and-a-half ounces worth of heavy metals and organoleptic compounds comming at ya at 3,200 ft/sec.
Especially if it's the wee hours just before dawn. And you see the tracers inbound. But you're not sure if you really see them, so you blink.
And then you wake up someplace else. With no coffee, either...
by cw4(ret)billt on May 2, 2006 1:08 PM
*sigh*
I suppose that it has it's uses... So long as you don't have to man-pack one...
(Okay, I admit, I've ALWAYS been impressed by them 20 and 30 mike mikes...)
by
Sgt. B. on May 2, 2006 2:25 PM
*Some* of us, Sergeant B, were bright enough to choose MOS's that didn't require us to walk to work...
by
John of Argghhh! on May 2, 2006 2:28 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
May 02, 2006
April 18, 2006
Okay -- Here's What It Is...
Like Captain JMH says, context is everything -- and in this case, if I'd shown it in context (below)

the gun bunnies would have gotten it without even a second thought. As it is, Outlaw 13 nailed it and KCSteve did a pretty good tap dance.
The Mk66 rocket, aka Hydra 70, is spin-stabilized, which is the reason for the scarfed nozzle. The fins do what the fins on any rocket does -- they provide drag to keep the business end pointed toward the target. When they're in storage, the shielding sleeve keeps the fins folded against the motor and allows the rocket to be loaded without much hassle. HomefrontSix nailed the site, just the wrong bit of ordnance. Click here and scroll down to the section on igniters for the line drawing.
Here's what the motor looks like with fins extended.

If you were curious enough to read the entire blurb at Ordnance-dot-org, you read about the effects of EMI on the Mk66 motor. This particular motor was used in those tests -- notice the little bolt sticking into what would be the exhaust stream? That's where one of the testing receiver's wires were attached.
And I might as well show you the motor in context, too.

No, the rocket's *not* live. I'm not completely crazy, y'know...
"Well, Officer, I think the 2.75" holes in the roof, the second story hallway floor, the kitchen ceiling and floor and the basement ceiling were caused by a meteorite which detonated milliseconds before impacting the basement floor -- which is why it's scorched and not cratered. Ummmm -- you're familiar with the Tunguska Event, right? Sooooo, that's my theory, anyway..."
Oh, yeah -- almost forgot about that little hole in the sleeve. That's a dual-function hole: it allows you to touch the fins with a grounding rod *and* (if it's aligned properly) it simplifies loading the rocket into the launcher to guarantee the igniter arm makes proper contact with the motor.
Nice guesses, guys (ummmm -- a *bracelet*, ma'am? Heh!) Just to keep you on your toes, here's a heads'-up: I've got one of the EMI testing receivers, too (no, it isn't a bag of microwaveable popcorn. But it'd have been interesting if I'd stuck one inside the cockpit while we were doing the flights, just to see if the EMI was frying *us* along with the simulated ordnance).
I'll just wait 'til John's short term memory does its thing before I stick *that* little jewel here...
UPDATE: Geez, speaking of short-term memory -- the orange stripe is actually a strip of reinforced tape with "How To" illustrations. John was thinking standard ordnance colors (yellow, olive drab, blue, etc.), but us Aviation types usually rearmed in the weeds and, if the sleeve was dropped around the aircraft (where do you think I got my collection?), the orange made it easy to spot and retrieve before the thing could be turned into a rotorwash-launched missile. And HomefrontSix did rather well, considering she's married to a tandem-rotored truck driver -- she'd have been more familiar with things that went *bang* if these guys were still around.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Well, not just drag, but a force normal to the airstream...
Yah, spin-stabilized; I betcha the Armorer has a Hale rocket, or at least a picture of one.
You did rig the quiz. Nobody without some previous familiarity could have gotten this one.
by
Justthisguy on April 17, 2006 11:07 PM
Hey, c'mon now...I have no pervious experience with anything of the sort and I got *close*.
**harumph**
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 11:21 PM
Close does not achieve the Romeo Y Julieta, HfS. Obviously the the thing was meant to contain something, and slide on and off easily.
Say, are you just a sloppy speller, or is "pervious" meaningful, in either an exact, or a nasty way? Snork.
by
Justthisguy on April 17, 2006 11:36 PM
Sheesh...can't a girl catch a break around here?
"meant to contain something and slide off and on"...hmm...that could be misconstrued in so MANY ways ;)
as for "pervious", that's what I get for trying to type with 2 little ones running amok
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 18, 2006 2:20 AM
He rigged the quiz by saying that the gizmo in the picture was in the line drawing, vice the rocket.
That's what stumped me. I stared at those pages for a long time trying to find the sleeve.
At least my instincts were right!
by
John of Argghhh! on April 18, 2006 5:46 AM
It helps, HFS, if you remember (or in your case, get told) that JTG was dropped on his head as a baby.
In fact, we think they played basketball with him. We're assured there was much dribbling, anyway...
We installed a "mute" switch, but apparently if he bends himself *just so* he can reach it and disable it.
BCR Labs is working on a different approach.
8^ )
by
John of Argghhh! on April 18, 2006 5:53 AM
Dust off your glasses, John -- the gizmo *is* in the illustration. In context, too!
by cw4(ret)billt on April 18, 2006 5:54 AM
I still say it'd make a nifty bracelet.
OOH!
A wrist rocket launcher! Very 007.
So... SugarButtons. Since you won't return my emails *ahem* are you going to make it to DC at all this weekend????
by AFSister on April 18, 2006 7:28 AM
Yeah! What AFSis said (the last paragraph)! ;)
by
FbL on April 18, 2006 7:46 AM
It's a shprocket.
*running away*
by
Cassandra on April 18, 2006 8:50 AM
Oooooh!
I know!
It's one of those orange-juice-making thingies you get with your Mixmaster blender! I have an attachment just like that in my kitchen cabinet!
If you get real bored on the weekend you can hook it up on top and time yourself to see how long you can stay on before you get thrown off.... sort of like an at-home bronco-buster ride.
Woo hoo!
by
Cassandra on April 18, 2006 8:52 AM
Standing in solidarity with the rest of the SugarButtons Brigade here...............
What's the deal baby????
by
Maggie on April 18, 2006 9:08 AM
I think he's ignoring us, Ladies.
by AFSister on April 18, 2006 12:01 PM
Ah, see...I didn't know JTG's history. That sure makes taking his comments in stride a LOT easier ;)
John ~ I stared at those line drawings for a bit as well. Things started to blur and I went to get a drink instead. I was close and my mother always said that "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades". Given the item up for discussion, I think that her sentiments cover it.
And the drink was good too.
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 18, 2006 12:47 PM
Chief Sugarbuttons isn't ignoring us.
It's an immersion blender.
by Cricket on April 18, 2006 1:03 PM
I think he's ignoring us, Ladies.
I'd say that's a big 10-4.
/flouncing away in high dudgeon.
by
Cassandra on April 18, 2006 1:37 PM
*joining Cassandra in mid-flounce*
by
FbL on April 18, 2006 1:55 PM
Princess Crabby is right behind FBL........who is right behind Cassandra.
Humph!
by
Maggie on April 18, 2006 2:29 PM
What's up with all of the flouncing? It's getting windy in here.
by
HomefrontSix on April 18, 2006 2:38 PM
Eh...I'd like to give ol' SugarButtons the benefit of the doubt before I flounce off.
*leaves choklit covered cherries and mint choklit chip ice cream near the door*
by Cricket on April 18, 2006 2:42 PM
mmm...mint chip ice cream...
what DOES one have to do to deserve THAT honor? Or do I dare ask?
by
HomefrontSix on April 18, 2006 2:51 PM
*also flounces away.. pouting*
by AFSister on April 18, 2006 3:09 PM
That's fine Cricket. You give him the benefit of the doubt. He probably deserves it.
I however will fly off the handle and be unreasonable..................it's what I do. John, JTM, SugarButtons, they would be disappointed if I behaved any other way.
Besides, this way it's like good cop/bad cop. We have it all covered.
by
Maggie on April 18, 2006 3:13 PM
HFS - It's, well, um, simply put, it's what a Denizenne *does.* It's almost the quintessential defining characteristic of the Denizennes.
The Denizens just stand there, struck dumb and drooling.
It's what *we* do.
Which explains *why* they do it.
by
John of Argghhh! on April 18, 2006 3:38 PM
"The Denizens just stand there, struck dumb and drooling." Well, most of us. If I do it I get thwocked. So I just trundle around with the mop and bucket---keeps me out of trouble(and the mop makes a decent flail in trying situations).
by ry on April 18, 2006 6:12 PM
You see, HF6, flouncing is the Denizenne way of keeping the boys in line. If they're drooling and dumb struck, we've done our job as the female influence around The Castle.
Just wait until we get out the choklit gun, the dancing poles, showers, and the 'ritamatic!
Ahhh.... the good 'ol days!
by Were-Kitten on April 18, 2006 9:56 PM
Are we talking choklit Poles or choklit poles?
Either way, it sounds like fun ;) Will any of this activity be present in DC??? Can I tell you I'm counting the hours?
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 18, 2006 10:35 PM
Fortunately, the choklit Poles (Andre) and the choklit poles only happen at Castle Parties. But like you, I am also counting down to DC!
by AFSister on April 19, 2006 7:12 AM
I however will fly off the handle and be unreasonable..................it's what I do.
LM derriere off :)
by
Cassandra on April 19, 2006 5:32 PM
Was NOT dropped on head; am in perfectly natural state!
(for me)
by
Justthisguy on April 20, 2006 4:20 AM
Maggie,
LMBO.
Mr. Six, most Denizens(ennes) love choklit in one form or another. Help yourself to the ice cream.
All Chief SugarButtons wants you to do is leave some for him and put it back in the freezer after you have dished out your portion. Making it from scratch is
rather time consuming, so if you *must* have it all, warn me so I can post the recipe for making it.
by Cricket on April 20, 2006 1:44 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Apr 18, 2006
April 17, 2006
Okay -- What's This?
No, not the bottle. You already know what *that* is. I hope...

There actually *is* a colored band on the critter -- I've PhotoShopped the relevant details out just to keep the playing field level, but the hole in the side is real and just about big enough to give a house-hunting wren some real frustration.
It's just a plain aluminum tube

with a very important job. And I found it at the second site I Googled (well, only a line drawing of it, but it included all the relevant details), so it's out there...
And, no, Neffi -- it's *not* Andr's shaving mug.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Could that be a canister for an XM16 (aka BLU-39/B23) CS Grenade. You know, them tear jerkers that are dispensed from XM-165's?.
Just like the Orkin Man Blattids back into their cracks, nothing clears-up a jungle-full of vectoring VC's like a few pounds worth of Chlorobenzalmalononitrile.
by Boquisucio on April 17, 2006 1:37 AM
Heh. It's kicking my butt so far. I like Boq's answer, but the stripe on the tube is too wide and the wrong color, unless it's one of the early test versions, painted for visibility during testing.
I looked for pyro engine start cartidges, and even TOW launch motors. It's too small for the launch motor itself, but it could be a cover for it - only I can't find any visual support for that theory, and I dno't recall anything like this sticking out of the the end of a TOW (but I've never seen a live shot being loaded, either, only fired).
by
John of Argghhh! on April 17, 2006 6:28 AM
Looks like a bracelet to me. I'm pretty much clueless on these things anyway, but jeez.... this one is way out there, Bill.
by Were-Kitten on April 17, 2006 7:18 AM
Once they get that long, W-K, I think we've moved to the "bracers" category.
by
John of Argghhh! on April 17, 2006 8:56 AM
It looks like the aluminum band that holds the folding fins on a 70mm (2.75 inch for you old guys) rocket down before you load it in the tube...but I don't recall the hole being there, so I could be/might be wrong.
by
Outlaw13 on April 17, 2006 9:14 AM
Hah! Choke iz on you, Chief... Andre don't shave hiz mug!! Cheeky dancink girlz likink ze hirsute manliness...
by Andre the Pole on April 17, 2006 9:33 AM
Outlaw - that was my other working hypothesis - but if there's a line drawing of that on the web as Bill alleges, I ain't found it yet, searching under all sorts of variations on fin retainers. But I know a *lot* more about Zunis, Hydra-70s and FFAR's in general.
In fact, this damn thing is why there was no post this morning...
by
John of Argghhh! on April 17, 2006 9:55 AM
Plain aluminium tube? Must be from an Iraqi nuclear weapons centrifuge. Ha ha.
Really and truly, Professor Cheney said so.
Oops, actually, maybe it's just a rocket combustion chamber.
Oh dear, too late.
I'm pleased to see Americans practising their aluminium-tube-identification skills.
;)
by OD on April 17, 2006 12:08 PM
I have no idea what it is myself, not being properly versed in all the fun toys.
However, I do note the three bits at the top that appear to be made to index into grooves on whatever it goes on / in. Looks to me like it's intended to hold something down as a safety cover. Based on the hole and the band I'd say you twist / pull to expose the band which then puts the hole over either another hole (so you can access what's inside) or let's some sort of pin pop up. The small raised band just under the colored band also supports this functional idea.
Be interesting to see what it's for.
by KCSteve on April 17, 2006 12:46 PM
And here I thought it was a trick stein.
Silly me.
by Cricket on April 17, 2006 1:20 PM
You have found the remnants of my 1990 beer keg. Thanks, now please mail it to me so I can get my deposit back.
Raymond B
www.voteswagon.com
by
Raymond B on April 17, 2006 7:34 PM
Dangit! Like I have *nothing* better to do with my time. Darned OCD...not gonna let me be until I figure it out. Where is MacGyver when I need him?
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 7:59 PM
http://www.ordnance.org/mk58.htm
Am I close?
-
hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 8:13 PM
HFS - I looked at that and rejected it as being too long.
I will be *sooooooooooooo* embarrassed...!
by
John of Argghhh! on April 17, 2006 8:25 PM
Yeah - the length was the stumbling block in my mind too.
I'm still searching...
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 8:27 PM
John ~ embarrassed? Why?
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 8:45 PM
Ok - from what I can discern, the MK-58 is 21.5 inches in length. That being said, if the item in the picture is one of 4 sections (keep in mind I have never seen an MK-48 in person), then it would make sense that the section in question IS approximately the right size.
Since I'm new at this, when will we get an answer? Patience is NOT one of my strong points...
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 8:56 PM
I'm even getting capped on with picture comments?
Ohhhhh, youse a crewl bastiche Cheif.
by ry on April 17, 2006 9:56 PM
Oh God - Grant me patience; but please hurry!!!
by Boquisucio on April 17, 2006 10:19 PM
BOQ ~ I learned a long time ago not to pray to God for patience...for then He will grant you situations in which to PRACTICE...
- hfs
by
HomefrontSix on April 17, 2006 10:27 PM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Apr 17, 2006
April 10, 2006
Accessorizing your War Wagon, Part II
Yesterday, as a Public Service, Bill helped you install an Armament Control Panel to your Basic Mode of Transportation Device.
Today - we'll help you with Fire Control by adding a sight. From Arsenal Stocks we offer up the US Navy's Illuminated Sight, Mark 9 Mod 2.
A real space saver, with the optional mounting kit, easily affixes to your dashboard, right in front of the steering wheel. If you routinely fly with a co-pilot and want greater flexibility, we offer a drop down, trainable mount which will slave to your weapons station. Comes complete with reticle dimmer to account for all lighting conditions.
Nice parallax-correcting sight picture, with dual circle-with-a-pip reticle for your target acquisition and engagement pleasure.
Today only - $99.95*
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows �
*A S&H fee, including Arms Control License documentation, totalling $1,234,567.89, may apply. Offer void where prohibited, restricted, or otherwise might get us sued. Not available to residents of any of the Borg Collectives. No warranty, express or implied, is provided. Product not available to those Collectives where such disclaimers are not allowed - and most especially will not be offered to gov't agents of such Collectives. If your citizens can't own 'em, we aren't selling to you, either. We don't trust agencies that are afraid of their citizens in general, rather than concerned about individuals through observed behavior. We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, purely on a whim.
� Secure this line!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Careful, or MTV will sue you, with DS' help(that hag), for infringement of their 'Pimp my ride' franchise.
by ry on April 10, 2006 12:07 PM
I'm going to channel the Joker and say "Where do you get such wonderful toys....?"
by
Brad on April 11, 2006 3:37 PM
At my local instantiation of "Armaments 'Я Us!", of course!
by
John of Argghhh! on April 11, 2006 3:45 PM
Whats with the asterisk on the price?
Inquiring minds want to know...
by mcart on April 14, 2006 2:42 AM
Then enquiring minds would note that *almost always* when there is an asterisk, there is something in the extended entry...
by
John of Argghhh! on April 14, 2006 6:06 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
April 9, 2006
Accessorize your War Wagon
Ever drive down the road and mentally blow the driver in front of you to kingdom come with a minigun? It may not have been a completely satisfactory experience if you didn't have the ancilliary switches 'n' stuff to complete your "willing suspension of disbelief."
With a couple of switches and some sheet metal you can pick up for a song at the neighborhood Property Disposal Office (although you may have to submit a sealed bid on a B-52 just to get the switches), you can accessorize your four-wheeled gunship with your very own OH-6A XM-27 armament panel.

Vwalla! Fiddly bits exposd! Couple o' wires, a toggle and a rotary switch -- what could be simpler? And you can assemble the whole thing with a pair of needle-nosers.
*not*
But if you're less mechanically-inclined than Bad Cat Robot, you can just cut out the top view

and paste it on your console. Armed/Safe switch to Armed (wait for the light to come on), Master switch to Fire Norm (nothing personal, Norm. Really) and you're ready to squeeze the trigger and send hot, screaming, imaginary leaden death up Slowpoke's exhaust stack.
Ummmmm -- actually, you might want to *print* the pic in lieu of peeling it right off the monitor...
Drive a lot at night? Don't forget to flip the NVG filters over the lights

before you goggle-up.
By the way, congratulations. You've just seen a couple of things that only Little Bird pilots and crewchiefs have seen. Oh, yeah -- *and* the Crash Investigation Teams...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! �
Ah, kewl. Now I have to post the gunsight...
by
John of Argghhh! on April 9, 2006 7:13 AM
Gunsight...FEH...just put a mark with a grease pencil on the windshield!
Wasn't that switch also used on a OH-58A/C when they actually thought about strapping on the mini-gun?
I was in the field when you posted the picture of the torque meter/ water pressure guage...if I'm not mistaken didn't they also use that on a Cobra?
by
Outlaw13 on April 9, 2006 10:23 AM
Kewl! Thanks for showing the *interesting* side (the one with all the wires and such ...) A new sideline for BCR Labs, automotive upgrades. This could be fuuuuun ....
by
Bad Cat Robot on April 9, 2006 11:02 AM
With this, and few other easy-to-obtain spare parts, you too can assemble your very own working OH-6A.
Cheers
JMH
by J.M. Heinrichs on April 9, 2006 12:12 PM
Outlaw - back in my Aerial Observer days, the Crew Chief used to get right pissy with me for grease penciling the inside of his windshield...
by
John of Argghhh! on April 9, 2006 2:12 PM
Don' need no steenkeeng sights--just adjust from the fire stream (hopefully before you run out of ammo).
John, the idea was to wipe the grease pencil off *before* you landed. With the *clean* handerchief...
Outlaw 13 - Yup, in the OH-58A -- and as soon as they found out the thing couldn't get off the ground with gun, ammo, fuel and pilot, they put out an MIM restricting the gun from being installed. They kept the panel for a while, just to maintain the fiction that the OH-58A could be armed. Heh. That was about the time they first started denying that the -58A had a major problem with its tail rotor, too -- I figure it took about thirty Class A accidents and twenty-five fatalities before the Army admitted that LTE existed and held Bell's feet to the fire to install the mod that had been standard on the JetRanger for five years -- and the OH-58A became the OH-58A/C. But the -58A/C is the only Bell product I've ever flown that I wasn't real happy with...
As far as the gauge on the Cobra goes, only the Corpus reworked -G models that later were rebuilt into -S(Mod)s had them; the ECAS and the -F torquemeters were in percentage.
One of the Maryland Cav guys was lifting an -F out of a FAARP--downwind--and got it to 115% before he realized he'd overtorqued the daylights out of it. Heh. Shut the FAARP down for two days.
Oooops--sorry, guys. FAARP = Forward Area Arming and Refuel Point. Translation: a fuel truck, a fueler and a driver in one corner of a clearing and a Conex of goodies in the other...
by cw4(ret)billt on April 9, 2006 3:30 PM
Oh, the *clean* one. Gottit.
by
John of Argghhh! on April 9, 2006 4:17 PM
Shucks Bill. We didn't have any switches for our mini.... Well, unless me telling the C/E to have the gunner fire. Wait, I guess the C/E slapping the gunner upside the head with a spare 60 barrel, counts as a switch?
by
V29 on April 9, 2006 4:51 PM
I guess the C/E slapping the gunner upside the head with a spare 60 barrel, counts as a switch?
No, it would be a switch if the gunner smacked the crewchief on the noggin with the spare -60 barrel. Gotta love the ol' flight helmet...
by cw4(ret)billt on April 10, 2006 12:51 AM
� Dismissed, Soldier!
by
CW4BillT
on
Apr 09, 2006