April 23, 2007
The answer to the Whatziss of Saturday.
Yer slugs. Most of you didn't even try, sigh.
But those that did went down the path I thought you would.
If you're new to this one, start here, and then go here.

Click here to see the assembled version.
It *is* an arming vane, just not for an air-dropped bomb, but rather for the British Grenade, Rifle, No25, also known as the Sangster grenade.
With its 15 inch rod (keep a lid on it, W-K) and high quality of construction, this grenade was able to achieve good ranges, and functioned well enough in optimum conditions. The problem was what you might expect - the soldier had to carry that vaned fuze in the trenches... and *that* was a problem. The grenade worked well, at a time when many Brit grenades didn't - except for that "robustness" problem of Tommy having to flop on the ground and crawl around, which was bad for the vanes.
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows »
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
so basically, Tommy is crawling thru the muck and mire with nothing but that safety pin keeping the little spinner from spinning, and then jamming the rid down the muzzle and squeezing the trigger??
makes me wonder how enough survived to continue the species...
by MajMike on April 23, 2007 9:06 AM
*sigh*
by WereKitten on April 23, 2007 12:45 PM
W-K: 8^ )
by
John of Argghhh! on April 23, 2007 1:09 PM
And to think that "arming vane for a British Grenade, Rifle, No25, also known as the Sangster grenade" was gonna be my very next choice.....guess I shouldn't have waited, huh??
I'll be here all week, tip your waitresses and bartenders, and try the veal!!!
by sandman6actual on April 23, 2007 2:05 PM
Slug, am I!? Sheesh.
I didn't say much after the first exchange as you made it clear my best shot was short of the gold. :) Actually, I didn't want to sound like somebody from the movie Friday, while saying "Well; you see; the thing is..." Heh.
Your link to the AN-M64 500lb GP bomb was exactly what I had in mind. Martin Caidin once related a story about an accidental bombing in Brussels during WW2. For some reason the reference of the lead bombadier to watching the groups bombs falling - "arming vanes spinning away" - has stayed with me over the years.
by
Casey Tompkins on April 24, 2007 3:31 AM
The slugs, Casey, are all the *non-participants.*
by
John of Argghhh! on April 24, 2007 5:03 AM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
The answer to the Whatziss of Saturday.
Yer slugs. Most of you didn't even try, sigh.
But those that did went down the path I thought you would.
If you're new to this one, start here, and then go here.

Click here to see the assembled version.
It *is* an arming vane, just not for an air-dropped bomb, but rather for the British Grenade, Rifle, No25, also known as the Sangster grenade.
With its 15 inch rod (keep a lid on it, W-K) and high quality of construction, this grenade was able to achieve good ranges, and functioned well enough in optimum conditions. The problem was what you might expect - the soldier had to carry that vaned fuze in the trenches... and *that* was a problem. The grenade worked well, at a time when many Brit grenades didn't - except for that "robustness" problem of Tommy having to flop on the ground and crawl around, which was bad for the vanes.
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows »
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
so basically, Tommy is crawling thru the muck and mire with nothing but that safety pin keeping the little spinner from spinning, and then jamming the rid down the muzzle and squeezing the trigger??
makes me wonder how enough survived to continue the species...
by MajMike on April 23, 2007 9:06 AM
*sigh*
by WereKitten on April 23, 2007 12:45 PM
W-K: 8^ )
by
John of Argghhh! on April 23, 2007 1:09 PM
And to think that "arming vane for a British Grenade, Rifle, No25, also known as the Sangster grenade" was gonna be my very next choice.....guess I shouldn't have waited, huh??
I'll be here all week, tip your waitresses and bartenders, and try the veal!!!
by sandman6actual on April 23, 2007 2:05 PM
Slug, am I!? Sheesh.
I didn't say much after the first exchange as you made it clear my best shot was short of the gold. :) Actually, I didn't want to sound like somebody from the movie Friday, while saying "Well; you see; the thing is..." Heh.
Your link to the AN-M64 500lb GP bomb was exactly what I had in mind. Martin Caidin once related a story about an accidental bombing in Brussels during WW2. For some reason the reference of the lead bombadier to watching the groups bombs falling - "arming vanes spinning away" - has stayed with me over the years.
by
Casey Tompkins on April 24, 2007 3:31 AM
The slugs, Casey, are all the *non-participants.*
by
John of Argghhh! on April 24, 2007 5:03 AM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
February 4, 2007
Okay, let's answer that whatzis, and pose a new one.
Watching the comments is like using silent interrogation. Just stay quiet, and you guys will just keep talking and talking and talking... and you usually find, and sometimes reject, the correct answer.
Casey, Trias, and ibm all were mostly correct. This is the guts of an "offensive" anti-personnel grenade. Ya, ya, all grenades are offensive to their targets. In milspeak, an "offensive" grenade is one designed to be tossed by a fellow who might not be able to take cover from it's effects, such as an attacking soldier, so those effects are minimized, both blast and long-range fragmentation. Defensive grenades are presumed to be thrown from cover, and hence are designed to have greater local and longer-range effects.
The whatzis are the guts of an unidentified euro version, which would have a plastic outer casing. The interior sphere is aluminum, and the ball bearings/bb's are glued to that shell.

The body of the US egg grenade on the right is included for scale purposes, the fuze in the grenade on the left is from the one on the right - vets will recognize a training fuze from the light blue spoon. Well done - you guys really did pretty well - but would do well to heed JTG's warning about me, too. [/evil smirk]
Here's your next challenge. Ready? Set? Go!

Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
This new one is all but a mystery. My best guess is some calibration thing.
by
Trias on February 4, 2007 9:55 AM
That's too easy- looks just like the one I have! I won't spoil the fun by giving it away. After all, it's supposed to be a SECRET!
by
John S. on February 4, 2007 11:44 AM
Maybe a half screwed out barrel of the bottom side of a partially disassembled somethinorother! Gun. Or not.
by Slick Rick on February 4, 2007 2:21 PM
Wow. I actually got one! I'm shocked. :)
This one... fuggedaboutit.
by
Casey Tompkins on February 4, 2007 10:28 PM
I haven't a clue what that's from.. Clearly a barrel and chamber for some kind of bullet launcher, but this is too generic for me....
by
SangerM on February 5, 2007 8:18 AM
Hints- Pistol, trench warfare, WW One, too late to see combat........ NOT designed by John M. Browning......
by
John S. on February 5, 2007 2:26 PM
Pederson Device.
by Rod Thorsen on February 5, 2007 2:39 PM
Answer: pistol, dropped on training range after it failed to reach WW I on time, the inherent "falling-apartedness" of it was then discovered, and the weapon fell off the procurement list.
by MajMike on February 5, 2007 2:39 PM
Bottom side of the top part of a lugar?
by
SangerM on February 5, 2007 9:52 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
October 24, 2006
The whatziss, revealed!

To refresh: This was the question.
It was the "all-ways" fuze used with the Brit No. 69 and No. 81 Grenades. JTG got it correct!
This is actually the fuze from the Castle's "Drill Purpose" No. 69 grenade.

Update: USMC Steve got in *his* answer literally as I was publishing this post - he got it right, too.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
I don't suppose I get that choice piece of ordnance for guessing it right do I?
It never hurts to ask...
by USMC Steve on October 25, 2006 2:34 PM
You can always *ask*, Steve.
The answer is the sound of crickets chirping...
But you can *always* ask.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 25, 2006 2:48 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
August 28, 2006
Let's try something different...
Rather than me being all snarky and showing off I can stump you by controlling the variables (hardly fair) - I'm just going to slap this up there and let *you* guys show off what you know about what this is and how it works, vice "Can you figure out that this is an elephant when all I show you is a cellular slice from a polyp inside it's trunk?" like I usually do... Hey, I know I'm mean - but you keep coming back, so, we're like co-dependent, right? Don't forget to explain *why* a feature is there, not just that it's there. The whole purpose is to inform the curious.

Extra credit if you figure out the proper nomenclature and nation of origin. I'm going to leave the comments open - but be honest - put your answer/description down and *then* read everybody else's. Block copying from a manual is okay, if that's how you achieve positive buoyancy for your bateaux, but I'll bring the best original answer (in my humble opinion) up into the post and leave it for the archives... just in case there's any egos out there who need a stimulus.
Snerk.
Okay, you guys need some help. How about the flip side? This is what SezaGeoff saw this morning.

Bet it doesn't look like you expected on the inside... but the answer to why it *isn't* the M406 (like Doug thought) is clear to the true grognard. And Doug, aside from color - there are only two (related) things that cause the M406 to differ from this round.
Update: This is the M407 - the training version of the M406 HE round. The difference? Aside from the color of markings? The "ball" portion of the grenade. It's not serrated on the inside for fragmentation purposes, and it wasn't loaded with HE. The M407 was in turn replaced by the M781, which had a plastic projectile filled with a marking powder.
SezaGeoff, first out of the chute (and with the second pic to get him started) was the most thorough of you.
The fuze? It's an "all-ways" fuze - with a set-back and spin safety system that didn't allow the grenade to arm until it was a safe distance away from the firer - not that just shooting someone with the grenade wouldn't distract them... even if it *didn't* explode.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
Well, it appears to be a grenade launcher round, constructed on the hi-lo principle, where the propellant is in the small chamber at the bottom, and restrained by a brass sleeve. This lets the propellant get a start up at high pressure, and then it bursts the sleeve through the holes shown into the main chamber. The pressure drops enough to give the grenade a firm push without busting either the gun or the firer's shoulder.
M79 launcher and ammo
But I am not sure about the fuzing of the grenade - it looks almost like a timing mechanism, and they won't let me play with that sort of stuff!
by SezaGeoff on August 28, 2006 7:53 AM
Sigh. I blew it. I put the wrong pic up. That was *supposed* to be the *after* pic.
Geoff - I've saved your answer, and I'll put it back up later.
(OW!) [sound of foot kicking desk]
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2006 7:56 AM
lol snarked by self. It doesn't get worse does it?
by
Trias on August 28, 2006 8:01 AM
Ok, I will go with the obvious. 40mm grenade. US origin. Not really any "belt" marks on it, so it isnt for a MK19 so it must be for a M203 or M79.
Silver tip with OD body doesnt tell me what type it is.. so I will go with HE.(High Explosive)
by
Tonyk aka Cpl.K on August 28, 2006 8:27 AM
Must.Show.Restraint... Must.Not.State.Obvious....
omgican'tstanditfallicfallicfallic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Were-Kitten on August 28, 2006 8:31 AM
LOL
And here I thought the conventional wisdom was that guys were sex-obsessed!
by fdcol63 on August 28, 2006 8:36 AM
Um, isn't that s'posed to be phallic?
The PG-17C doesn't mind that spelling and usage... and, boy, W-K, if that's what you expect in regard to that... they grow 'em short and squat where you live!~
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2006 8:57 AM
I was spelling "fonetickally" John.. hoping that I would get past the PG17C. I figger'd you dig me on "phallic", since I get in-trouble-fied for saying "well, $hit". harumph.....
As far as short and squatty goes... as long as he knows how to use it, I'm good! Being hung like a bear doesn't do anyone any good if you don't know what to do with it.
Oh... fd... you mustn't have attended many Castle Cuddle Puddle parties if you think that only the guys around here are obsessed! hehe....
*winks, and slinks back up to chandelier perch to watch the boys ponder over John's Whatziss*
by Were-Kitten on August 28, 2006 9:33 AM
I'm not real sure about the color on the projo, but if it's gold and not silver, I'm inclined to M406 HE 40mm M79/203 round of U.S. manufacture. I think there's an M376/M386 or so as well. I don't see any green, which strikes me as not quite right.
You'd think I'd remember this, I fired enough of 'em in RVN (M203).
by
Doug K on August 28, 2006 9:45 AM
Heh - I'm waiting for people to give me details (like the lamented SezaGeoff's post) about how they work...
Or are all of you guys who use 'em the "I don't care if it's magic, s'long as it works!" type?
And Doug, you are actually *very* close on nomenclature... but not quite there.
by
John of Argghhh! on August 28, 2006 10:12 AM
"I'm waiting for people to give me details (like the lamented SezaGeoff's post) about how they work..."
How it works is more or less conventional ignition for a center-fire cartridge, but the explosive rounds are spin-armed, which is to say that they need to be fired and traverse a certain distance before they arm, something like 20 meters I think. Thus, they cannot be dropped, thrown or otherwise used for their intended purpose without some other fusing (if improvising a mine or something).
Single shot, the M79 is break-open, the M203 a forward sliding tube under the main weapon (say, M16 or CAR-15) with a separate trigger and sights.
My rig (and a heckuva' John Wayne picture) is here:
http://www.lcompanyranger.com/usweapons/xm203page.htm
I'm on my way out the door for S. America at the moment, so will leave details on nomenclature to those with a lil' more time. It looks long for N M433, so maybe M381/M441?
"The firing pin strikes the primer, whose flash ignites the propellant in the brass powder-charge cup inside the high-pressure chamber. The burning propellant produces 35,000 psi (2,461 kg/cm²) chamber pressure, which ruptures the brass powder-charge cup at the vent holes. This allows the gases to escape to the low-pressure chamber in the cartridge case, where the pressure drops to 3,000 psi (211 kg/cm²) and propels the grenade from the muzzle at a velocity of 250 fps (76 mps).
The rifling in the barrel causes the grenade to rotate. The grenade's 37,000-rpm right-hand spin stabilizes the grenade during flight and applies enough rotational force to arm the fuze."
by
Doug K on August 28, 2006 10:47 AM
Ah - Not fair. Some Scrup'l did quick work with a can of 7955 Silver Metalic Rust-Oleum.
by Boquisucio on August 28, 2006 10:47 AM
OK... it's looking more like the usual Whatziss you host around here, John! Much less like the previous picture, which was very phallic. This one, on the other hand... well, let's just say it has too many sharp edges.
by Were-Kitten on August 28, 2006 2:48 PM
Is it some kind of WP incendiary grenade?
by Samuel Tai on August 28, 2006 10:33 PM
Good thing I didn't guess M407A1:
http://www.autoweapons.com/products/destructivedevices.html
(scroll down to "HE Practice Grenades- $350).
Could you confirm it's a 40mm x 46SR vice a 40mm x 53SR?
Cheers
JMH
by J.M. Heinrichs on August 29, 2006 9:57 PM
I was wondering if someone was going to find that page... and no I can't. I don't own this particular one.
by
John of Argghhh! on August 30, 2006 5:39 AM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
July 12, 2006
Some tidying up of loose ends.
In case of Moonbats, break glass, and grab the Armorer's Cluebat! (Down, Denizennes, sheesh!) 32 inches Moonbat-thumping reach - with a nice, cannon-like touch to the, ahem, barrel of the piece.
Alrighty then, moving on. Remember this "Whatziss?"
Go below the fold, to the Flash Traffic/Extended Entry, and you can see it in context.
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows »
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
Ooooo! is that Red Oak 215, or Sedona Red 222 Wood Stain on The Castle Argghhh Cluebat?
by Boquisucio on July 12, 2006 9:36 AM
Um, neither. It's fake mahogany. I'd hafta go grab the can.
I need to practice my gold-leafing skillz, too.
by
John of Argghhh! on July 12, 2006 9:59 AM
Nice looking AAD there John!
(Attitude Adjustment Device)
Don't worry about the gold leaf - a little operational activity and it will look like it was perfect. ;)
by KCSteve on July 12, 2006 11:00 AM
32 inches, eh? I guess that trumps BillT's 27.
;-)
by Were-Kitten on July 12, 2006 1:08 PM
Nice bat, John! I'd make one myself, but then the stately bannister of Outpost Neffi would fall down...
by Neffi on July 12, 2006 1:22 PM
Hey, Home Depot for 12 bucks, something like that. Don't have to loot the digs man.
Geez, think outside da box whydoncha?
by
John of Argghhh! on July 12, 2006 1:32 PM
"In case of moonbats, break glass, grab the Armorer's Cluebat!"
Errr... won't we get in trouble with Beth if we do that, John?
*running away*
by
Cassandra on July 12, 2006 6:54 PM
Not if you follow the spirit of the caveat, Missy.
by
John of Argghhh! on July 12, 2006 7:12 PM
I'm sorry. A fog formed in front of my eyes when I read those words and...[fanning self] ah'm afraid ah just didn't read any furthah!
by
Cassandra on July 13, 2006 3:52 PM
I'm sorry. A fog formed in front of my eyes when I read those words and...[fanning self] ah'm afraid ah just didn't read any furthah!
by
Cassandra on July 13, 2006 3:53 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
July 3, 2006
Whatziss, solved!
Eric was very close - and Frank, building on Eric's work, finally bridged the last tiny gap.
The plate was used by German Stormtroops to pull the fuzeloops not of the Steilhandgranaten - stick grenades, but rather the wire loops of the egg grenades.

In other words - like this.
Well done guys - it wasn't an easy one, it's not a well known, nor very common, piece of kit. As far as I know - until I posted these pics - the website that Frank found was the only other place you could find a picture of this - in far worse shape than that in the Arsenal of Argghhh!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
Why does throwing eggs at politicans come to my mind?
wd btw Eric and Frank.
by
Trias on July 4, 2006 4:22 AM
Ah, now I see. I betcha a sufficiently ept Stormtrooper could manage one exploding, 3 or so in the air, and one raring back to throw, using one of those. That would "keep up the skeer", as Forrest put it.
by
Justthisguy on July 4, 2006 9:42 AM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
June 15, 2006
Whatziss, Answered. Meet the Grenade, .303 rifle, No 22 Mk II.
That's whatziss is, as surmised, a rodded rifle grenade.

I guess, as a final hint, I should have said, "Think Hobbit." Go ahead, google "Rod Grenade Pippin."
A paucity of formally adopted and procured rifle grenades were a problem for all combatants in the early stages of WWI. The WWI procurement bureacracies hov'red over the battlefields, very much process-bound, much as they still do today, leaving the troops in the field to innovate.
{To save on loading times and bandwidth, I've moved the rest of this post to the Flash Traffic/Extended Entry so we'll only bug the ones who want to read it. You're welcome, Princess Crabby]
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows »
In June of 1915, Captain Heny Newton of the Sherwood Foresters designed a rodded rifle grenade which could be manufactured locally, in the regimental shops. There was little machining involved, sparing the need for skilled craftsmen in the production process (see STG 44 in WWII). The grenade was originally known as the "Newton Pippin Grenade" and the good Captain produced about 80K of them in his shops.
The original design was inverse to the one in the Arsenal, being narrow at the top, where the fuze is, and fat at the bottom, where the rod attaches (see the pic above). The fuze system was a metal cap with a striker in it, that initiated the impact fuze as seen here in the hand grenade version. Note that it used locally available items like a shortened SAA (Small Arms Ammuntion) cartridge (to get the primer) which set off a piece of safety fuze with a detonator (like Engineers use for demolitions). The initial design has some flaws from the user perspective. Upon firing, the set-back of the striker plate sometimes caused the grenade to function early - as in right about at the muzzle. This annoyed the firer and any of his buddies nearby. No - it wasn't always fatal. There's a reason you see the soldiers ducked low (and always wearing a helmet) when firing grenades of this type. A premature detonation could certainly kill or wound you, but the way the grenades were built didn't produce a globular fragmentation pattern - though the shockwaves were. The frags went out parallel to the long axis, hence the annoyance of the firer's buddies. At best, however, the shooter was going to have a serious case of tinnitus.
Efforts to address this problem resulted in the pattern of grenade in the Arsenal Holdings. Improvements in cap material, addition of a safety pin, a change in fuzing and a change in the shape of the grenade to that of the one in the Arsenal addressed that most pressing of issues, and the grenade went from being the "Newton Pippin" to the No 22 Mark I.
The change of fuzing is interesting in itself. The No 22 is initiated by either a standard Mk V .303 cartridge with the bullet removed, or the N0 8 Mark VII detonator - actually simplifying things a great deal. A further change in shape of the striker cap resulted in the Mark II. The red band, btw, indicates which explosive was used for filling, important to know for the people who stored them. Red indicates amatol. This is a repainted battlefield recovery and is empty, btw. Just in case you were concerned. One of the reasons the grenade in the Castle holdings is a Mark I (check the striker cap flange shape) is they are more plentiful - being more prone to dud than the Mark II's. That said, because the copper cup is intact, much less still attached to the rod, indicates this was probably dropped on the battlefield, vice a fired example.

Use was simple. Insert the grenade rod into the barrel of the rifle (in the pic, the cap is not fully seated - it would *not* be sticking up like that in service). The copper cup on the end of the rod (remember Part 1?) will expand on firing and seal the bore and engage the rifling. The spin isn't needed, the seal is to give reasonably consistent ranges for the grenadiers. Put in a blank, orient on the target, SWAG the elevation (very few rifle grenadiers had actual sights for their grenades) and pull the trigger. The fully loaded grenade weighed about 1.5 pounds, which produced a lot of recoil and was tough on the rifles, which were prone to stock splitting. Many times older, worn out rifles were wrapped in large gauge copper wire and turned into "EY" grenade launching rifles - but *that's* a different post.

« Secure this line!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
oh man! and i even found the bit about the copper wire wrapped rifles designated for such.... must have been looking right at the correct answer and scanned right past it.
bravo!
by
MajMike on June 15, 2006 9:31 AM
Hmmm "Said Moe", with a left twist of 1 turn for every 10 inches, once that copper-driving band engaged the rifling, that whole contraption would have spun rather awkwardly, I would think. The rod, Mr. Pippin and its Kitty Mediaeval Helmet would have all yawed wildly as it traveled its 50 yards towards The Boche.
Great Gun Pr0n Boss.
by Boquisucio on June 15, 2006 10:29 PM
Ah - but if one looks closely... one will see that the cup did the spinning, not the grenade.
by
John of Argghhh! on June 15, 2006 11:07 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
May 20, 2006
So, what was it?
I guess I've tortured High Desert Wanderer long enough...
And, my goad worked. Someone *did* get it. Not exactly in how it worked, but good enough for government work.
Pogue - I name you a Brainiac of Argghhh!
I would guess that it's an inertia safety for one of the rifle grenades on display in the castle.
Gezackly. More specifically, this one: The Serbian one that resides on the Yugo SKS in the Castle Collection. It is included in the picture of the "selection of rifle grenades" in this post. I can't believe *no one* commented on that, either. I guess I've got you all *really* desensitized, so that if we ever get the Castle to sufficiently to spec for SWWBO to think about letting you in the physical, vice digital demesne, you'll take it in stride all the ordnance laying about.
The bottom of the fuze element (the bit on the left) is the gain, the charge that (empty in the Castle example, of course) that initiates the bursting charge in the grenade body on the right (also empty, natch).

Click here for the last picture, which will open in a new window.
On the left is the firing pin. When you remove the cap (the very top of the grenade in the first picture and the safety pin (the ring) the firing pin is free to move against the spring which holds it off the primer. When the grenade lands, point first, you've got enough oomph for the pin to overcome the spring and strike the primer.
On the right is our inertia safety. In the picture, the primer is aligned over the flash hole. The primer is the silver-looking part. When safe, that whole assembly is on the *other* side of the body, held in place by the spring-loaded peg in the upper left of the assembly. When the grenade is fired that peg, being held in place by a very weak spring, overcomes the spring's resistance and drops, allowing the spring in the primer assembly to move the assembly and get aligned over the hole - this takes enough time that if the firing pin *also* moves during the shock of launch it would actually drop into the hole on the left side of the assembly, and delay the movement of the primer assembly until the firing pin spring overcame the inertia and retracted the firing pin, thus allowing the primer assembly to move into place.
The whole point is to make sure the bang happens upon arrival, not departure...
That's all, folks.
That was nicer than Bill's farkin' gear!
Pogue, gimme a snail mail address and I'll get you a Brainiac of Argghhh! mug. I gotta scoot - I've got Charitable Things to do this morning. Someone else can get the H&I set up!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
March 5, 2006
The Bright Shiny Object
As Boquisucio determined, was a Soviet Diakonoff grenade, one of two in the holdings of the Arsenal. This is a later version, with a time fuze.
Here's a bookend of late (on the left, a Brit 40mm training grenade commonly used today) and early (on the right, 1920's, 40mm grenade developed by the Soviets and used in WWII. Like the french Vivien-Bessier grenade of WWI, this was fired from a "tromblon" or cup discharger, and was a "bullet-through" vice "bullet-trap", grenade. Thus far when I've seen them, I've been outbid for them, but if anyone knows of any available Mosin-Nagant tromblons and related sight, I'm in the market!

For Owen - here's a closeup of the time fuze ring (these grenades are unusual for their era in having a time fuze). Oh, and those projections that threw some of you off? There are three, spaced evenly around the grenade.
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
You're in this week's Kansas Blogger's Roundup. But I'm looking for blogs to host upcoming carnivals. Please let me know if you're interested. Thanks. Lyn from Bloggin' Outloud (now on hiatus from blogging)
by
Lyn on March 5, 2006 5:38 PM
You're in this week's Kansas Blogger's Roundup. But I'm looking for blogs to host upcoming carnivals. Please let me know if you're interested. Thanks. Lyn from Bloggin' Outloud (now on hiatus from blogging)
by
Lyn on March 5, 2006 5:38 PM
Fascinating, John. That Diakonoff must have been one expensive rifle grenade.
by OD on March 7, 2006 2:29 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
December 7, 2005
Little help... and Grenade Pr0n!
I've been too serious of late, despite Bill's best efforts. Must be subliminally trying to ease the bruising my ego is taking at the Weblog Awards...
Anybody know what grenade this is?
It's been tentatively id'd as a French Guidetti from WWI, but I don't agree. Unfortunately, I can't prove it isn't, either, really, based on the somewhat limited resources out there.
Anybody know their obscure WWI grenades? Better than me? Who read this thing...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
Looks more like a mortar round. See the vanes for "rifling" in a smooth barrel and the fuse head with a safety band collar? probably around 60mm, cant tell the scale in the pic.
by
Rey on December 7, 2005 8:04 AM
It looks to me like one of the early german Rifle-grenades, but I'm not an expert(ask me about naval warfare), so Don't take my word for it.
by
Hans Mahler on December 7, 2005 8:12 AM
I'm leaning more towards a cup-launched rifle grenade, though a trench mortar is possible. I know it isn't German unless this is a new, unknown version of those.
by
John of Argghhh! on December 7, 2005 8:20 AM
Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch? :-)
by
Harvey on December 7, 2005 10:43 AM
The "vanes" protrude too far to have offered a decent seal for tube-launching and I think the shouldered area to the left of the brass collar probably helped retain the fuze cap. Some interesting barbs on the bell--an attaching point for a rifle-barrel launching rod, maybe?
Hmmmm. The Austro-Hungarians had some interesting limited-production ordnance early in the war...
by cw4(ret)billt on December 7, 2005 10:47 AM
No Harv, the Holy Handgrenade used the Fuze, Cross-shaped, Mark 4:12, and this clearly does not.
Bill - I'm thinking along those lines, though the protruding vanes aren't a disqualifier - the german cup discharger of WWII used 'fitted' rifled grenades, too. The Austrians and Italians had to odd stuff, and the references are hard to come by... especially in English.
by
John of Argghhh! on December 7, 2005 11:57 AM
Yes I am glad you posted this particular grenade. There were actually 3 made. It is of Austrian design. The markings on it were cleaverly placed there to confuse CSI types.
What made this grenade special was that it contained no explosives at all. None. It was not launched from a rifle or tube as the entire concept of this grenade was stealth.
The later two grenades were actually configured with silencers.
What did I win?
by jim b on December 7, 2005 12:40 PM
A trip to the looney bin without better provenance than that!
by
John of Argghhh! on December 7, 2005 12:43 PM
You can always buy the one on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.ie/French-WW1-Guidetti-Grenade-RARE-Inert-NR_W0QQitemZ6586424905QQcategoryZ13974QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Cost 10.5 Pounds
by
NOTR on December 8, 2005 6:18 PM
I could probably tell you what it is, but my government computer won't open the picture. Based on the written descriptions provided by the other contributors it sounds like a rifle grenade to me too, but that's as good as I can do given my LAN Nazi imposed blindness.
by EODman on December 9, 2005 3:51 AM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
October 27, 2005
Context is everything.
Which is why CAPT H won't play the Whatzis game... Interesting suggestions. Salad shooter. Jacuzzi. Nose trimmer. Bloodspite was closest overall (at the time of this entry, anyway). And Devin was the most interesting of the plausibles...
It's all a matter of scale.
That's the nose of the WWI Austrian Universal Grenade, an attempt to make a grenade All Things For All Purposes. A Swiss Army Knife of a grenade. A one-size-fits-all solution. Y'know - like the F4 Phantom, or F111. Except those turned out to be useful, in the end. The Universal? Well, how many of you have heard of one?


The thing is about the thickness of a hot dog. (I can hear the Ya-Ya's twittering behind their fans already.) It gets the name Universal from its ability to be either a hand-thrown grenade or a rod-grenade fired from a rifle. An impact fuze or a time fuze. The one in the Castle Armory is the rod version, as you can see from the left hand photograph. This one is also configured for a friction time fuze (that thing dangling off the side), with the percussion fuze as a back-up. The item in the lower photo standing up on end is the cover for the nose, needed so that the propeller-safety of the percussion fuze won't inadvertently arm. We hateses it when that happens!
The rest of this will be in the Flash Traffic/Extended Entry.
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows »
In the hand-thrown configuration, this grenade came with a drogue attached to the end (attached via a loop screwed in where the rod goes on this grenade) that provided drag to keep the grenade oriented nose-first. This is necessary because you have to generate enough wind-passage through the holes in the nose for the propeller to spin to arm the striker pin... to me, a completely un-needed feature - but this is not the only grenade that does something similar. The Brits had at least two, one of which *also* resides in the Castle Armories... gee, we might see *that* later, ya think? After you've done that, it still needs to be nose-first, because function relies on the square impact on the nose to explode the grenade. Another consequence of the drogue? You lose range, due to the drag. And training to account for that probably took a while, and you had to have a different set of muscle memory for tossing a standard grenade.
You can see the guts in this diagram from an Italian manual on the subject.
This drawing represents a slightly different nose profile for the grenade, I haven't been able to find out if it pre- or post-dates the more rounded contour of the Castle's example. You can see the drogue and it's attachment to the loop on the bottom. The cord wrapped around the body until used. The friction (delay) fuze extending from the side is removable before use, if you intend to use the percussion contact fuze.
On the right side of the diagram you can see a cutaway of the internals, shown in this photo, below. On the left is the rod, which fit in the barrel of the rifle. In the center is the friction fuze (what's left after being made safe), removed. On the right, top to bottom: Nose (the brass part - anybody know why it's made of brass and not steel?) with the lower hole being where the fuze went in. On my grenade that part is *not yet* removable, but we'll get there with patience. Next is the explosive container, followed by the fragmentation sleeve, followed by the grenade body. Keeping in mind that this grenade is about as big as a hot dog (that rod fits into a 7.9mm rifle bore) all those layers reduce the internal volume considerably. Here's another shot showing all the bits partially nested.
In all probability, this was *not* a very powerful or impressive grenade in use. And given all the engineering that had to go into it - hardly worth the effort or expense, either, I would guess. Which might explain why it both didn't have a long service life... and when recovered from the high alpine battlefields of the Italian/Austro-Hungarian battlefields, they are many times found in groups, as several had to be thrown to get one to work properly. At least those were battlefields with some decent rock in them... vice the mudbaths of the Western Front. Well, except for when it was snowy...
Oh, yeah - the brass part. Brass is *much* easier to work than steel, and - since the percussion fuze relies on compressing the cap - it's also much softer. At least that's my take on it. Not a whole lot out there in English, and not a whole lot more in Italian or German, either.
Lastly - you can go visit Inert-Ord.net and see a nicely preserved model (which shows the propeller disassembled, too, which I can't yet do). He and I have the same references, too, I see.
« Secure this line!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
But, but, but, when do you finish the evolution of firearms series?(wipes nose on sleeve like 5 year old)
by ry on October 27, 2005 4:50 PM
Great! I check out for a couple of days, and I miss a great Name That Fiddy Bit Round of Game.
Carica di Scopplo!!! Looove the Italian Stripped Schematics.
by Boquisucio on October 27, 2005 4:51 PM
Yay me! I was right for a change heh!
by
BloodSpite on October 27, 2005 4:56 PM
Teach ya to play hooky, Boq. Say... howzabout a translation? Then can *add* to internet knowledge (at least for English-speakers).
Neffi - where's my bayonets? Snerk!
by
John of Argghhh! on October 27, 2005 5:00 PM
John, I've been caught up in the grenade series- but I'll have a bayo story to you this weekend.
If there's any interest there will be more...
by Neffi on October 27, 2005 7:02 PM
John, sweetheart....
Don't you know by now the Ya-Ya's aren't interested in mere hot dogs? It takes at least a Big Red Smokie to get *our* attention.....
by Were-Kitten on October 27, 2005 9:33 PM
I know I've probably missed a great deal of this as it's difficult to keep up with you guys.. but where's the stuff I might see in the Stan?
Time is getting short! I can't freakin wait!
Oh and another question.. anyone.. ANYONE know of anything cool that chicks can do?
Since we can't go to sniper school, or do high speed, low drag, kick in door stuff?
I need a new goal.. and although I appreciate 'The Company' I doubt they'd take me.
Email any advice please!
;)
by
Army Girl on October 27, 2005 10:17 PM
See my email, Ms. Girl!
by
John of Argghhh! on October 27, 2005 10:27 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
October 26, 2005
Preview of coming attractions...
Update: Since the Gurlz of Argghhh! (heh, a calendar, perhaps?) seem to be a little confused, the following information is provided to help the Ya-Ya Blog Sisterhood (YYBS) better comprehend what is in the photo above (because if you read the comments, the YYBS' are having some difficulty)...
Top, from left to right.
British No23 Mk1, bottom of Austrian Lakos, top of Austrian Kugelhandgranate (both from last week), German Diskushandgranate M1915, British No 5 Mk 1.
Next under is an Austrian Universal grenade in rod configuration.
Next under is a long-hafted brass-bodied grenade that while it does have a proper British No19 grenade fuze on it is probably not an official grenade at all but someones attempt at a repro.
Bottom, L to R: German Ubungs, or training grenade that substituted for the M1916 and M1917 stick grenades in Stormtrooper training exercises. Russian Lantern grenade, British No19, with streamers (which are prolly replacements), British No1Mk2 (short handled, missing the streamers), German Kugelhandgranate M1915, and lastly, a German M1917 stick grenade.
One of these grenades (unrelated to repro parts) has something wrong with it. Let's see if there's a grognard out there who can figure it out. Hint - *I* wasn't paying attention at some point - a factoid which will only assist a *real* grognard or dogged pursuer of the question. Oh, and if you think I've mis-identified a grenade, that's possible, but would only count as extra credit...
Oh, and yes, dear - I've taken all the toys and put them back in the case, rather than leave them strewn on your antique butcher block table... really!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
mmmmmm.... looks like fun, John!
purrrrr
by Were-Kitten on October 26, 2005 9:41 AM
Hmmm, "hand tools" huh?
At least there aren't any sharp edges. :-)
by Masked Menace© on October 26, 2005 10:38 AM
You tease, John! :)
by
Fuzzybear Lioness on October 26, 2005 10:48 AM
MM-
Hand tools: GOOD
Sharp edges: BAD. VERY bad.
by Were-Kitten on October 26, 2005 11:20 AM
"For a Good Time, call John"
*snerk*
by
Barb on October 26, 2005 11:25 AM
Ladies - the men in your lives inadequate or something?
Geez.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2005 1:26 PM
Not going near the "hand tools" remarks. A guy could hurt himself.
Although those could simplify the tool box. After all, a proper amount of explosives can solve *any* problem...
...except how to fill in the resultant crater.
by
UtahMan on October 26, 2005 1:40 PM
#82,
Not everyone is as lucky as SWWBO.
by Were-Kitten on October 26, 2005 1:49 PM
UM- if your use of explosives is leaving craters where you don't wish them... then you aren't using your explosives correctly.
I've seen a 155mm HE round safely disposed of while on the porch of a house... with almost no damage to the house except some scorch marks on the concrete of the porch.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2005 2:16 PM
Hmmm... Wouldn't happen to be your house, would it, John? ;)
by
Fuzzybear Lioness on October 26, 2005 2:21 PM
No, of course not. I don't own any explosive ordnance capable of exploding!
I am a good boy, I am.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2005 2:30 PM
*sneaks behind john... uncrosses his fingers*
riiiiiiight
by Were-Kitten on October 26, 2005 2:47 PM
Potato smashers. YIPEEE!!
by
CDR Salamander on October 26, 2005 2:51 PM
When I first flipped to the page, i thought that John was going my way and showing us some maces. LOL Then I realized those were really grenades and I came to the conclusion that the shape of percussion weapons really hadn't changed much in 800 years. ;)
by
kat-missouri on October 26, 2005 4:52 PM
Well, they haven't. Not really.
This is a WWI trench mace of the Royal Inniskillings...
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2005 5:08 PM
The M1917 spud-masher is missing the bakelite cap that originally covered the friction fuze pull-string... but I bet that's not what yer looking for, eh?
by Neffi on October 26, 2005 5:33 PM
Nope. Wouldn't expect to find that on a battlefield pick-up, either... but since I didn't make that clear, no penalty.
But you *are* close, in a cosmic way.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2005 5:47 PM
...no penalty... PHEWWW... [wipes sweaty brow]
Thanks fer the break, John.
heh
by Neffi on October 26, 2005 7:02 PM
ps- re the streamers on the impact-fuzed Brit jobbies... you should prolly elucidate, since this is an educational post. Dinna forget that most of us are iggerant...
by Neffi on October 26, 2005 7:11 PM
That would why it was termed... "Preview of Coming Attractions..."
by
John of Argghhh! on October 26, 2005 7:55 PM
...love it. Bring it on...!
by Neffi on October 26, 2005 8:45 PM
We're not confused, John. We're just creative and resourceful with common battlefield objects. You should see what we can do with modern weapons. *grin*
by Were-Kitten on October 26, 2005 8:52 PM
Four of your Brit toys have red/green markings, save the No19. Was that the 1WW mark for inert or practice toys?
Cheers
by J.M. Heinrichs on October 27, 2005 6:56 AM
The red band means the grenade is filled (i.e., doesn't have to be filled by the ultimate user or some lower-level ordnance operation.
The green band means the grenade is filled with Baratol, TNT, Trotyl, or Amatol.
The Mills also has the Red Xs, which means the grenade is filled and sealed for use in tropical (moist) climates.
The bronze painted body of the Mills also indicates it's a drill grenade. I'm not sure if drill grenades got filler markings, etc, for training purposes, or if the collectors took drill grenades and added the markings, keeping the bronze color so as not to cause hissyfits among EOD personnel.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 27, 2005 7:03 AM
Wait... you mean these AREN'T primitive Neanderthal corn-dogs found at an archeological dig in Ethiopia? :-)
by
Harvey on October 27, 2005 7:37 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
October 19, 2005
The Whatzis? answer.
First some stuff just because I wanna.
Finally, Saddam goes on trial. Funny how some people are almost positing that "fair trial" means essentially, unless there is a real chance of a defense and acquittal, there can't be a trial, because that wouldn't be fair... so he (or anyone in that situation) should go free. Hey, no worries, it worked for OJ, right? You want to see that discussion, run through yesterday afternoon (18 October) at NRO.
Plamegate straggles on. Hey, Whitewater certainly dragged on, too.
I'll wait and see what happens and finally comes out. This pundit gig doesn't pay well enough to spend all that time digging.
Okay, let's clear up that little straggler from yesterday. Shock, surprise, not many of you made serious attempts to figure out what they were, except for those who have been deprived of intimacy of late... The rest of you, what, you got jobs or something?
Anyway - they're both grenades. Both Austrian. The stick grenade one is a Rohrhandgranate (Alt) or literally, Tube Hand Grenade (Old), as vice the "Neu" or New. No, Neffi - not missing the cap to the grenade handle. There wasn't one. The handle is a cardboard tube, taped over. In the case of mine, almost certainly a replacement - aside from it's condition for a 90-year old cardboard tube, it also doesn't project through the ball (as can be seen in the linked pictures).
The other is a Lakos. Mine is an early version, also larger than most later versions. Another give-away as to early... it has a fuze that must be lit, vice a percussion fuze as used on later grenades. This is just a tube with wooden plugs at each end, made of cast iron so that it would be more likely to break into pieces. One reason they are fairly common on Italian-front battlefields is the fuze often failed, or the explosive just blew out the wooden plugs.
WWI grenades are a fascinating study. You could find *both* of those grenades on the same battlefield, even though they represent very different levels of sophistication and technology.
Lest we think the Austrians were alone in relatively crude grenades... well, that's not true. Both an inadequate starting stockpile and an inability to produce "professionally engineered" grenades in quantity led to many battlefield innovations. Such as these Battye grenades from the Arsenal Collection. They were manufactured by French engineers in the town of Bethune, Northern France, for the British army in 1915. Named after the inventor, a Royal Engineer Major Battye. Segmented roughly cast iron cylinder originally containing Ammonal, sealed with a wooden plug, and having a lit or chemical fuze. Also prone to failure of the plug just blowing out, hence the wires.
Early in the war it was so bad both sides resorted to complete battlefield improvisation, producing a class of grenades sometimes referred to as "hairbrush grenades" for obvious reasons. The official french nomenclature was "Les Grenades Artisanales."
The French had an odd mix of grenades, too. I've covered the Vivien-Bessiere grenade launcher before. But they had grenades like the Citron Foug, which you slammed down on a hard surface to ignite the fuze. Many wartime helmets have dents in them - not from shrapnel, but from a desperate soldier in a muddy field who was trying to get his grenades to work...
Then there were gems like these French 'bracelet' grenades in the Arsenal. WWI vintage. The soldier wrapped a loop of twine or wire that has a hook on it around his wrist - hooks the loops on the grenades, throws. As it leaves his hand, it is supposed to pull out, igniting the friction primer. They were not popular.
Like this:
The poster is "Journée du Poilu. 25 et 26 décembre 1915" which reads as "Day of the Soldier, 25 and 26 December, 1915. It shows a poilu just about to loft a bracelet grenade. If you go back to the picture of my grenades - you can see an obvious problem with the go-to-war version, the Fusee Modele 1882 (which is just a new fuze stuck in the Modele 1847 grenade... yes, 1847). They took out the wick fuze and stuck in this. Problem is, it's a friction-fit wood plug. Often as not - the grenade went sailing away, leaving the fuze dangling. Hence the second grenade, the Modele 1914, with a brass base, threaded so that it screwed in securely. Which grumped the Generals, because that meant they were more expensive, and you had to thread the old grenade bodies too! Dammit! I *hate* it when that happens. The Ghost of Gorgas. Those who know, know.
I'll continue this subject sometime when the muse next seizes me. Mebbe rod grenades...
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
I thought they were Stone Age grenades.
*dodging Neffi and Sgt B*
by Cricket on October 19, 2005 8:30 AM
I like BCR's creative answer the best!
*props and a free mug to ya!*
by Were-Kitten on October 19, 2005 9:54 AM
This chapter (along with the previous segments linked to) are the best reference available on line on the subject of WW1 era grenades! Very informative and useful info for the collector and historian.
by
John Spangler on October 19, 2005 12:06 PM
Very interesting lesson. thank you. I was prepping a comparison of ancient armor to today's armor for Thursday's post.
I am wondering, dear armorer, if you have any comment on why it is that the builders of modern body armor are re-inventing the wheel the hard way when it seems with every "innovation" it is really a repeat of some other existent historical armor with only new material. Yet, it seems to me that they may not have hired any experts in ancient armor to review why it is certain pieces and types of armor were used.
I think it would save the government some research money.
by
kat-missouri on October 19, 2005 12:48 PM
Great stuff, John. More like it, please... as the muse seizes ya.
by Neffi on October 19, 2005 5:41 PM
Rod grenades are fascinating, but (personally) I've always thought that the only thing that should go *into* the business end of a rifle barrel was a cleaning tool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah--I know about ramrods. A lot of *them* got launched in the early days of the Civil War, too...
by cw4(ret)billt on October 20, 2005 8:21 AM
Not just the early days. Any day a green unit took to the field. I've seen battlefield ramrod-in-tree recoveries from Gettysburg and Petersburg.
by
John of Argghhh! on October 20, 2005 9:17 AM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
June 30, 2005
Ah, Brit obits! and other weirdness
Ah, Lieutenant-Commander Dick Raikes - if only I had had *half* the career you did before, like you, I was "invalided out" of the service.
Of such metal was the Empire built.
A few days later Raikes heard the propeller noise of a U-boat surfacing and carried out a snap attack with his stern torpedoes; there was an explosion and black smoke, but Raikes found no wreckage. The patrol ended with an amorous whale bumping Seawolf for an hour. Raikes was awarded the DSO.
Read the rest, here. You really do want to read this one.
Now is the time at Castle Argghhh! when we dance, In Memoriam.
Moving on...
Frequent commenter Monteith sends us this... we'd like that *a lot*... it would look good in the inner Bailey next to the Trebuchet and Onager... but I think my interest foundered when I read "Purchaser to arrange own cartage..."
Jeff, complimenting my on my 'correct politics' 8^) sends us to Gun Law News, where the inimitable Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee, holds forth thusly:
A database this large is likely to contain many errors," said Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) during a May 12 hearing on the Illegal Immigration Enforcement and Social Security Protection Act (H.R. 98). "Any one of [the errors] could render someone unemployable and possibly much worse until they can get their file straightened out."
As they point out at Gun Law News...
But in 2002, Jackson Lee argued for the "Our Lady of Peace Act," (H.R. 4757), an expansion of the National Instant Check System (NICS) for handgun purchases.
So, the bottom line is that the rights of illegal aliens to whom some of the Constitution does not apply are more important than the rights of a US citizen guaranteed by the US Constitution.
A-yup. If yer a Moonbat, anyway.
Heh. Let's check in with Noah of Defense Tech and David Crane at Defense Review - they've got the goods on some of the stuff that finds it's way into the studies I conduct for a living. [N.B. This has been edited to give credit where credit is due.]
XM-25 Grenade Launcher
Throwbots.
HELLADS.
H/t, Jim C. (feeling better, dude?)
Remember some of the discussions in the past week of How to Lose the War? One of the counters I suggested was we as individuals and as bloggers need to paint the side of the conflict that the MSM, which both by political bias and institutional inertia (if it bleeds, it leads) won't cover? The positive aspects? Move America Forward is taking that idea and running with it - by taking a bunch of talk radio hosts over to Iraq: The Truth Tour, Live from Baghdad! Hey, face it - those guys will reach more people than most of us bloggers will!
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
The best part of the obit:
"He also took part in trials to enter an enemy harbour at night while conning his submerged submarine from a tiny platform built around the periscope. In the warm Mediterranean, Raikes wore only a bathing costume, but the experiment was abandoned when, on entering St Paul's Bay, the sight of him apparently walking on water caused several local fishermen to cross themselves and jump into the sea...."
by
Joe Katzman on June 30, 2005 6:19 PM
Yup, concur on Raikes. Wotta man! I've never commanded a submarine, but I have waited tables, though temperamentally unsuited for the job. That Raikes would do so, just to learn the business, at an advanced age, shows that he had not only big brass balls, but the heart of a lion.
(who doesn't care what other people think)
by Justthisguy on July 1, 2005 2:08 AM
Yup, concur on Raikes. Wotta man! I've never commanded a submarine, but I have waited tables, though temperamentally unsuited for the job. That Raikes would do so, just to learn the business, at an advanced age, shows that he had not only big brass balls, but the heart of a lion.
by Justthisguy on July 1, 2005 2:09 AM
Yup, concur on Raikes. Wotta man! I've never commanded a submarine, but I have waited tables, though temperamentally unsuited for the job. That Raikes would do so, just to learn the business, at an advanced age, shows that he had not only big brass balls, but the heart of a lion.
by Justthisguy on July 1, 2005 2:10 AM
This was good too:
"In 1935 Clyde was sent to Palestine during the Arab general strike. Raikes spent several weeks fighting fires, evacuating a maternity home by a burning timber yard, and building an armoured train which, after two hours' shunting practice at Haifa station, he took over the railway system of north Palestine.
On several nights Raikes took this train to Samakh, near the Sea of Galilee, to keep open the line despite ambushes and derailments - "an enjoyable game of cowboys and Indians", he recalled. One night Raikes joined up with the Trans-Jordan Frontier Force and enjoyed riding on horseback at full gallop across boulder-strewn country by the light of a burning oil pipeline. He admired the Arabs and their love of a fight, and when the fighting was over he would carry their casualties back to their villages, where he knew he would be safe so long as he was unarmed."
by
Joe Katzman on July 2, 2005 7:45 PM
Noah runs Defense Tech (http://www.defensetech.org). I run DefenseReview (http://www.defensereview.com). The XM25 piece is mine.
Best Regards,
David Crane
Owner/Editor-in-Chief
DefenseReview.com
by
David Crane on July 3, 2005 10:59 PM
Concerning the Truth Tour, here's a background link to the blog of an NGO exec who has been campaigning to restore balance.
by Brian H on July 5, 2005 7:46 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
March 25, 2005
More on the 617th MP Company
By now, most of you have heard of this fight - via the media, Blackfive, Greyhawk - the usual suspects. Due to the flow of my work and blogging, I don't usually jump on the 'breaking stories' because someone's already fed 'em to Matt and the 'Hawk - but yesterday I did get some pictures.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about - I'm talking about the firefight of the Richmond, Kentucky based 617th MP Company - you can read about it here.
The soldiers continued to take fire as they traveled up the main highway. Squad leader Nein wanted to make a right turn onto another road, but just as the Humvees were turning the corner, one was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade.
Spc. Casey Cooper, 20, was up in the gunner's turret when the vehicle was hit.
"The heat and the concussion knocked me," said Cooper. "I could feel it hit me in the chest and the face, and that was about it. I blacked out after that."
But he quickly rejoined the fight. By that time, the U.S. soldiers were out of their vehicles.
I'm gonna put another face with the story, and some gun pics. Perfect match for the Castle!
Let's meet Specialist Cooper, and see what sort of stuff this intrepid little Band of Brothers gathered up in as thier part in trying to further the cause of Iraqi sovereignty, free from tribal tyranny. Or at least something better than they had.
In this photo released by the U.S. Army Wednesday, March 23, 2005, U.S. Army 503rd MP Battalion, 18th MP Brigade gunner SPC Casey Cooper stands next to a his damaged Humvee near Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites) recently, after it received a direct hit from a rocket-propelled grenade, knocking him unconscious. Cooper was revived and helped his fellow soldiers defeat an attack on a coalition supply convoy March 20, about 18 miles southeast of Baghdad, according to U.S. officials. (AP Photo/U.S. Army, Sgt. 1st Class Marshall P. Ware)
And let's see some of the captured haul - and what they were facing. Once again, training, discipline (instilled by pride and training, maintained by good leadership) and basic soldiering pays off... this is 12 troops fending off more than three times their number, killing 17 of the bad guys, in a fight that took place at a time and place of the bad guy's choosing. That's just professional-quality soldiering - and if there are any Regulars out there still bad-mouthing the Guard and Reserve in general (as vice specifics) - give it a rest, wouldja?
In this photo released by the U.S. Army Wednesday, March 23, 2005, U.S. Army U.S. Army 503rd MP Battalion, 18th MP Brigade Sgt. 1st Class Marshall P. Ware, of Lexington, KY, poses with a cache of insurgent weapons recovered after an insurgent attack on a supply convoy March 20, about 18 miles southeast of Baghdad. Seventeen insurgents were killed in the battle. (AP Photo/U.S. Army, SPC Casey Cooper)
In this image made available 23 March 2005,Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester, team leader, 4th Platoon, 617th Military Police Company, 503rd MP Battalion, 18th MP Brigade, stands in front of a captured weapons cache after her squad repelled an insurgent attack on a Coalition supply convoy March 20 about 18 miles southeast of Baghdad.(AFP/US Army-HO)
UPDATE: I *was* going to publish the AAR, but Matt at Blackfive already has. Just another reason he was the winner of "Best Milblog". I was waiting for permission (not implying anything about Matt - this has to do with my still having an active clearance and some of the rules associated with it. Matt got it from different sources than I did - it came to him clear to use.)
Flash Traffic (extended entry) Follows »
Small Guard Unit Fends Off Dozens of Iraqi Insurgents=(women in combat)
abc news ^ | March 22, 2005 | Martha Raddatz
Posted on 03/23/2005 6:29:09 PM PST by Flavius
BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 22, 2005 — National Guard soldiers from the Richmond, Ky.-based 617th Military Police Company were still reminiscing today about the extraordinary battle they fought on Sunday, when dozens of Iraqi insurgents ambushed a U.S. patrol — touching off one of the fiercest battles in Iraq since the fight for Fallujah last fall.
But what is more extraordinary is who the U.S. soldiers are — a shoe store manager, hotel worker, printing press operator and several students.
The firefight serves as a reminder of how citizen-soldiers are shouldering much of the burden in Iraq. Of the U.S. forces fighting in Iraq, 40 percent belong to the National Guard or Reserves.
Anatomy of the Fight
Ten U.S. soldiers in three armored Humvees were providing support to a truck convoy south of Baghdad when they were attacked by insurgents this weekend.
"When we first started taking fire, I just looked to the right and saw seven or eight guys shooting back at us — muzzle flashes," said Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester.
"You could hear a lot of booms from the [rocket-propelled grenades]. You could hear bullets hitting metal," said Spc. Jason Mike.
The insurgents came out of a grove of trees and started firing from a roadside canal. When the shooting started, the National Guard members drove their vehicles between the convoy and the insurgents.
"Basically, training kicks in, and you just maneuver and do what you have to do to stay alive," said Staff Sgt. Timothy Nein.
The soldiers continued to take fire as they traveled up the main highway. Squad leader Nein wanted to make a right turn onto another road, but just as the Humvees were turning the corner, one was hit by a rocket-propelled grenade.
Spc. Casey Cooper, 20, was up in the gunner's turret when the vehicle was hit.
"The heat and the concussion knocked me," said Cooper. "I could feel it hit me in the chest and the face, and that was about it. I blacked out after that."
But he quickly rejoined the fight. By that time, the U.S. soldiers were out of their vehicles.
"At first, I shot one guy," Hester said. "I saw him fall."
"I started firing with my M4 [light machine gun] with my left hand and the 249 [machine gun] with my right hand, trying to lay down fire on both sides," said Mike.
"I went through my full magazine and went to reload," said Spc. Ashley Pullen.
As the fighting progressed, insurgents started firing machine guns from a two-story house, wounding three U.S. soldiers.
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"I went inside the vehicle and grabbed the anti-tank rocket and took the house out," said Mike.
In the end, the unit killed 27 insurgents. The wounded U.S. soldiers are all expected to recover.
"After it was all said and done with," said Hester, "it was overwhelming what actually happened."
The soldiers of the 617th Military Police Company will be back out on patrol on Wednesday. They are not expected home — to the shoe store or the printing shop — until November.
ABC News' Martha Raddatz filed this report for "World News Tonight."
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Man, do Americans ever kick A$$ or what?!?!? Wow!
Of course, the Army and the Army Reserve announced the other day that both have missed their recruiting goals for two months in a row. We're only talking a couple thousand people each month for both components together, but the trend is worrisome.
While it's true our folks do kick butt, it's also true that events like this are working against recruiting. I guess that's just the nature of the beast, but I sure do feel for the folks on duty now--like those in the images--who are going to face all that much more deployment pressure.
On the bright side, Sgt Leagh Ann Hester is going to have SOME story to tell her children. Man, who'd mess with a mom like that? Assuming of course that she doesn't get like all the other vets who just never told their kids anything. . .
-SangerM
by SangerM on March 25, 2005 7:55 AM
FWIW, Black5 has posted the AAR.
Somebody, tell me again about this "greatest generation" thing from 60 years ago? I stand in awe of these young soldiers.
by mike mariani on March 25, 2005 12:56 PM
Beauty, brains, and two smoking guns! I think I'm in love!
Seriously: Again the caliber of our citizen soldiers shines through:
"...drove their vehicles BETWEEN the insurgents and the convoy..."
Semper Fi, Army! Ya'll are gittin' 'er done!
by Sgt. B. on March 25, 2005 1:20 PM
How can we at home honor such incredible people as these? My heart swells with pride for their heroic efforts to protect those truck drivers and with thanksgiving for the training and leadership they posess.
God bless one and all, and may they all come home to a heros welcome!
by John Middleton on March 25, 2005 11:13 PM
were proud of all of you.
by glynn brown on March 28, 2005 6:55 PM
were proud of all of you.
by glynn brown on March 28, 2005 6:55 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Mar 25, 2005
»
BeldarBlog links with:
Raven 42
January 3, 2005
New Equipment updates.
I recently got sent an update brief on some of the new, or newly modified gear, being fielded or scheduled for fielding. I'll be posting it in chunks over the next couple of days.
First installment includes updates on the XM107, the Semi-Auto Sniper Weapon System (SA-SWS), updates to the M249, Mk46 and Mk 48 machine guns, Shotguns, grenades, non-lethals, and the TOW Bunker Buster.
Download file
November 8, 2004
Good News on the Getting Creative to Save Lives Front.
Something else getting a fast-track push to get developed and into the hands of the troops, outside of normal processes:
RPG air-bags. Yep. RPG air-bags. You know the bad guys will come up with a response, but that will take awhile.
ARMORED WARFARE: RPGs Stopped by Air Bags and Electricity
November 8, 2004: Rocket propelled grenades (RPGs) are the typical weapons of choice when insurgents decide to attack trucks and armored vehicles. RPGs are cheap, simple to operate, and if used properly can inflict significant damage on Stryker and Bradley armored vehicles. Unarmed and armored Hummers are especially vulnerable, since the various armor kits for the Hummer are designed to protect occupants from small arms and machine gun fire, not anti-tank grenades.
One quick fix to protect the Hummer is a unique airbag system developed by a small California company that deploys a "curtain" down outside the side of the vehicle being attacked. Four bags are needed to protect all quadrants and are held in place with simple Velcro straps. A small radar detects the incoming RPG or RPGs and inflates the airbag with a carbon dioxide gas cartridge. The RPG is literally "caught" by the airbag like a pillow and slowed enough so the nose-mounted fuse doesn't detonate the warhead. Instead, the RPG ends up collapsing upon itself, shredding the secondary self-destruct fuse and looking like a stomped-on beer can. Currently, the airbag and cartridge have to be replaced after one use, but the designers are working on a reusable airbag that can simply be rolled up and put back into place.
Cost for the system is expected to run between $5,000 to $7,000 dollars and weighs around 50 pounds. The Army is in the process of awarding a contract with the goal of getting systems to Iraq within 6 months, at a initial product rate of 25 systems per month. Other systems are being refined for use on canvass-topped vehicles and the Stryker. The system has the potential to replace both the current Stryker "RPG" fence standoff metal framework as well as reactive armor systems and has the twin advantages of being lighter and less expensive than reactive armor. It's also safer around infantry than reactive armor. Multiple tests of the airbag system have been run using RPGs, with one test managing slow down an RPG enough to stop it relatively intact – forcing a stop to the tests until range safety could come out and blow it up in place.
Over the longer term, the Army is looking towards electronically "charged" armor protection. The protection scheme would be composed of an outside armored plate, a spaced gap, and an inner charged plate. Shaped charges are essentially hot streams of metal traveling at (very) rapid speed to penetrate armor. A shaped charge from an RPG or other antitank weapon would detonate, penetrate the outer armor plate, and the hot metal stream would make contact with the charged inner plate, forming an electrical circuit that ends up plattering the metal across the inner plate rather than breaking through into the hull of the vehicle.
Charged armor is a better solution than reactive armor, as it is both lighter than reactive and also non-threatening to nearby infantry. At least two anufacturers have successfully demonstrated charged armor solutions, one retrofitting a Bradley AFV with a large capacitor to charge the inner hull plate. One manufacturer has demonstrated that the Bradley charged armor can take multiple RPG hits onto the same section of the hull without penetration and was willing to show a short demonstration film to those of the proper security clearance. In theory, charged armor should work equally well against weapons with larger shaped charge warheads, but the manufacturer would not comment on any tests done in that area. Ideally, charged armor would be an integrated solution as a part of a hybrid-electric vehicle. Power would be available from the vehicle to charge the armor for protection and installing the equipment would not require an expensive rebuild from the ground up. – Doug Mohney
Hat tip: Strategy Page!
Other interesting tidbits from the boys at Strategy Page. Twas a busy day in history today. Some good, some bad.
Good. 1789 Elijah Craig brews the first bourbon whiskey, Bourbon County, Ky. Can't stand the stuff myself, but I know there are those of you who love it...
Bad. 1923 Hitler's "Beer Hall Putsch" in Munich.
Bad. 1939 Failed assassination attempt on Hitler in Burgerbraukeller, Munich
Good. 1942 Hitler proclaims fall of Stalingrad (He was wrong)
Good. 1942 Operation Torch: U.S. and British forces land in northwestern Africa (Really bad day for Germany.) Bad day for France, too. They got beat again - by us, this time. If you think about it, France and Italy are the only countries in WWII to lose to both sides.)
Lastly, for the Instapilot: Good. 1950 1st jet combat, Lt. Russell J. Brown's F-86 scores a North Korean MiG-15
Reporting As Ordered, Sir! »
I'm really happy to hear about the "RPG airbag". That sounds like something that can be implemented rapidly and easily. RPGs seemed to me to be a remarkably effective weapon: cheap and can take out lots of big, expensive things and even more critically, hurt lots of people.
The "charged armor" is really, really cool. I wished I had thought of that. Better living through applied Physics!!!!
by
Jack on November 8, 2004 10:02 AM
Wow. That's really, really cool. And it means more will be able to come home again...
And now I see that Jack just said the same thing. But I guess that's the only expression for it: "really, really cool."
by
Ben on November 8, 2004 11:59 AM
Question: why all of the complexity in the airbag system? Why not use engine exhaust to keep the bag inflated all the time, sort of like the skirts on a hovercraft? You wouldn't have to worry about complex detection and inflation systems and the thing should stand up well to small arms fire. Such a system would probably cost but a fraction of $5,000 and could be fitted quickly.
by Larry J on November 8, 2004 4:08 PM
Larry - um, so they can see out the windows?
by
John of Argghhh! on November 9, 2004 6:02 AM
We used offset sections of chain link fence around our bunkers back in the days of the first "Fourth Generation War"--had the same effect on most RPGs, but you'd still get an occasional airburst (that's what's so nice about overhead cover).
That fix would work on Bradleys, too; cheaper than airbags-plus-electronics, no problems with glitches in the detection system, completely re-usable and most repairs are user-level--of course, you'd get a lot of "backstop, self-propelled, one each" jokes... =]
by cw4billt on November 9, 2004 7:58 AM
Airbags over windows don't allow much visibility, either, and they are only good for one RPG. If you need inflatable airbags over the windows, put them there. For the rest of the vehicle, fixed inflated bags might be a better option. Hovercraft can withstand many punctures without collapsing because they're constantly being inflated.
by Larry J on November 9, 2004 1:36 PM
« Dismissed, Soldier!
by
John
on
Nov 08, 2004
»
Brain Shavings links with:
RPG airbags
June 16, 2004
Gunner was pretty close!
He originally thought the picture below was two grenades in a display. It was a blow-up of two grenades, an