*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".
(okay, apparently you still want me to clutter up your blog with the random trash I find. I can live with that.---ry)

« Secure this line!

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Soooo, chem-warheads rocketing into a FOB? This bears some snooping-into...

Naaah. Couldn't be chemical rounds, 'cuz there are no WMDs in Iraq. Nancy Pelosi says so, and that's good enough for me, by gosh and by gol -- *mmmmmfpff!* Sorry. I just couldn't keep a straight face any longer...

by BillT on January 13, 2007 11:21 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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don't forget that reactive armor poses its own threat to of our own dismounts and/or civvies who happen to be in the vicinity...

by MajMike on January 12, 2007 08:03 AM

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You all have brought up 2 very interesting, and seemingly related, issues. However, as has been said before, besides the free speech/expression/religion issue, the Klingenschmitt case also involves long standing restrictions on how active duty personnel exercise their rights of speech, petition and assembly. As long as I can recall (back to 1975), active duty personnel have never been allowed to participate in any form of political assembly or public speaking while in uniform. Now, maybe the good chaplain’s superiors did have it in for him, but that is even more reason for him to protest within the rules. BTW, I agree with his basic point, but I also agree that the Navy has to not only maintain good order and discipline, but also avoid the appearance to the public of a politicized military service. Now, all that said, I think the Nave screwed up by charging him with failure to follow the order of his superior rather than relying on the fact that he appeared at a public protest in uniform. I predict that, at some point, it will be ruled that the order of his superior was not lawful and therefore he was under no compulsion to obey.

by Oldloadr on January 12, 2007 08:16 AM

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I just realized that I wasn't clear in saying I was comparing the Klingenschmitt issue to the Rumble in the Blogosphere here: http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/006960.html

by Oldloadr on January 12, 2007 08:26 AM

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The Rooskies started fielding anti-ATGM projectile-based reactive armor for the T-90 just before the Soviet economy imploded. It utilized a series of UV sensor (not IR; UV spoofers are few and far between) to detect launch plumes and triangulate the incomer -- if it wasn't closing with the tank, the system went back to passive search mode.

Sounds like the Israelis took the basic idea and carried it further. We had the same opportunity in the '90s, but didn't follow up because the world was now all lovey-dovey and Congress was too busy divvying up the imaginary Peace Dividend to countenance testing it, let alone fielding same...

by BillT on January 12, 2007 08:32 AM

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If it wasn’t designed and built by ‘Muricans we ain’t buying.

Well, to a point, yes. But ain't the M-240 and M-249 Belgie guns?

(Not to mention the occasional MP5, the Ranger/Seals with their M3 aka Carl Gustaf,

by Sigivald on January 12, 2007 01:45 PM

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Ry
When you read Professor Quiggen again, you might also check the relevant commentary at TimBlair.net. His pronouncements are quite often the source for unintended amusement.

Cheers

by J.M. Heinrichs on January 12, 2007 01:46 PM

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Re: Reactive armor...

As I sat in the gunner's position of my mount (Bradley MICV), I wondered the same thing regarding my protection against ATGMs and RPGs.

I will be keenly learning the counter-measures, and, no, I'm not going to share the "word"...

by Sgt. B. on January 12, 2007 02:42 PM

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JMH, dude, I thank you so much for providing high powered rebutle to Quiggin. I don't know how many hours I've lost wrestling with issues he and the others over there present. It never hurts to have someone nudge me along. Thankee sir.

"Well, to a point, yes. But ain't the M-240 and M-249 Belgie guns?"
And there was much handwringing over that wasn't there? Once in a while we seem to buy stuff, but mostly not. Why build Standard when the Brits already had a battle tested system? Why not use Cheiftan MBTs instead of following MBT80 to the Abrams? We wants our own stuff built here at home.

And yes, it was mostly an over generalization but not by much. Something like the Rhinemetal big bore guns and the JSF programme aren't the order of the day on this side of the Pond.

"I will be keenly learning the counter-measures, and, no, I'm not going to share the "word"..." Dang. Glad you aren't, but dang. I'd love to know. Take care of yourself Sgt. B. You're in our prayers, dude.

by ry on January 13, 2007 01:09 AM

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Oh, I even got slapped down by Dusty. I'm moving up in the world.;)
"So, to cut to the chase, I think the Eagles offer both a more modern system that is easier to integrate with another system never originally considered for air launch and the aerodynamic capability (thrust-to-weight ratio, sufficiently structurally robust to carry large payloads, etc.) to get it to where the users need it to be effective"
Probably. I was kinda thinking that you were pulling for the AF out of service rivalry until here. Still could be. :0). BUt this actually is a bit to chew on.
I was also thinking along the lines of do we have enough airframes to add one more mission to the Eagle? They can't be everywhere. Limited number of airframes and little money likely available to allow us to buy the numbers we really need to allow for this.
Area defense like this is what the F-14 was totally designed for. Flying some kind of anti-missile CAP could be a real low stress on airframe type mission so the age and stress showing on the 'Cats is less a factor. Plus it allows the 15's to go do their real job: air supremacy. It might cost a little more. Another engine upgrade and some electronics tinkering(the 14's a big girl and open to mods) and it might allow us to keep the 15 doing the job she was really intended for: kicking booty.
Note: I'm not a fan of jack-of-all trades swiss army knife-ing of platforms across the board. Some specialization is absolutely necessary in my opinion.
But thanks Dusty, that's definitely something to think about.

by ry on January 13, 2007 01:24 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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LMAO! Maggie, you wiped out my post with a post that addressed the same news (MNF storming the Iranian "liason" compound in Irbil).

I defer to the Princess... ;)

by FbL on January 11, 2007 09:11 AM

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what are we looking for?

fingerprints.

by MajMike on January 11, 2007 10:52 AM

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I completely agree about Durbin. I was so upset.

by Maggie on January 11, 2007 05:20 PM

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I read the followup on the polls and it really struck me that this is just business as usual for the MSM. What has to happen to get the White House to respond to this kind of made-up statistics and if they do decide to where are they going to respond.

by dick on January 11, 2007 06:19 PM

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thanks for the link.

Tom says what we needed first was a 50k each Russian, Chinese and Indian peacekeepers in Iraq, nonOccidental, so when insurgents looked across the line they saw three cultures with a demonstrated record of killing Muslims when the situation requires it.

by Sean on January 11, 2007 08:30 PM

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Um, Maggs, you're kidding right? MajMike is on the money. A smoking gun linking Iran to funding and fueling some of the insurgentcy in Iraq. The Patriot systems? Iran has a fair number of missiles they could fire off if they get a wild hair(the Shahab series for instance). My not be nuclear, chem and bio warheads have dispersal issues, but they are a problem. We're taking a stance that Iran is not going to like and were anticipating one of their major counters. Smart.

"Tom says what we needed first was a 50k each Russian, Chinese and Indian peacekeepers in Iraq" I may have missed that in the post Sean. Even so, I'm not sure it's such a smart move. If, and I'm only saying if, part of the problem is 'outsiders' bringing in other outsiders who have issues with Moslems and have histories of killing them(Russia obviously with Chechneya, China with the Ughir(I can't spell for crap), and India with the indigenous and Pakistani Moslems) I can't see that as not exacerbating the problem. The mass effect would be nice(150K more troops? Hell yeah), but not sure it solves other issues.
I also have trouble with the rather sticky details of how such a coalition would decide how to proceed. We've very different ideas of what's necessary. Tom didn't go into that, it being a blog post and not a dissertation, but I think it potentially an issue.

by ry on January 11, 2007 08:51 PM

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Ry- I thought they were interesting points to discuss. Aren't you interested in knowing what we were looking for or where those batteries will be placed?

by Maggie on January 11, 2007 10:39 PM

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Of course I'm interested in knowing what was found. But it's going to be released like the Zimmerman telegram(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram) and such, if at all. I'd give up my left arm to see what was actually found there. But I'm not going to see it. Not before it gets world wide release to show Iranian intransangience.

Placement of the Patriot(are they PAC-3?, I sure hope so) batteries is a tactical thing. They aren't going to Japan or Korea, if that's what you're thinking. we've sent some to those places or sold them some already(the ones with the anti-ballistic upgrades to software and such). These are obviously headed for Iraq and critical points in the ME to counter possible BM attack. Beyond that's purely on need to know in my opinion(and I, though I'd like to, don't need to). Don't want to make things easier for the enemy you know. Loose lips sinking ships and all.

John, you've ruined me. Now Maggs surrenders to curiousity like a 12 year old better than I do. Punk. Stop dragging me into adulthood.

by ry on January 12, 2007 12:52 AM

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sorry, Ry. i guess that was kind of a driveby comment ;-)

the 50ks are something Tom was has said in the brief as long ago as 2 years ago. he has not reiterated this recently.

if i had a point, it was along the lines of 'this whole thing would have gone down better with a little more coalition-building on the front end a la the 50ks.

nowadays i think Tom would say Russia and China still matter b/c what we should really be trying to do is transform the whole region, and they figure in that way, overall-security-wise. further, they are, at a minimum, important trade partners (China re: oil especially)

by Sean on January 12, 2007 06:20 AM

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No hassles, Sean. It's been a while since I saw the brief on C-SPAN(and the wife refuses to allow me to buy the DVD of it.). I must've totally forgotten he said that. It happens.

by ry on January 13, 2007 01:34 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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Here’s the way American Politics are supposed to work (and the way it did work when Ronald Reagan and Tip O’Neal were the two in the ring):
1. The president needs more money for troop increase
2. Nancy Pelosi does not have a veto-proof majority to enact her various social agendas
3. She has to compromise and give the pres what he wants (war funding) and he has to allow something he doesn’t like to become law (prescription drugs, minimum wage, you name it).
4. Kennedy is irrelevant since the Dems only have a 1-seat majority in the Senate and many Senate Dems from more conservative states are not going to make a big stink about funding an additional 20,000.

by Oldloadr on January 10, 2007 10:06 AM

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I wish Ted would die. Yes, I am that evil. Yes, I am sincere.
Ry - Regarding Larisa of At-Largely: How did you find this one? Don't smoke anything she offers you (unless you think such a warning is too *mom-ish*). I had to stop reading after this line "In fact, it was Pakistan who birthed out the Taliban." WTF is *birthed out*? People in the comments have to do her proofreading? The stuff in the Korea post (I don't know how thinly stretched we are, but this would appear to stretch us even thinner. Do we have enough fighter jets to defend the homeland, should we have to? What are we going to do when Kim launches? Is this really just a regular operational matter?) What? How about the Blogroll? Definitely not for the squemish. I don't imagine I'll be going back.

by Maggie on January 10, 2007 10:07 AM

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Maggie - I don't think Ted will ever die. I sometimes wonder if his existance is God's judgement on America for our Hedonistic and lascivious ways...

by Oldloadr on January 10, 2007 10:14 AM

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I sometimes wonder if his existance is God's judgement on America for our Hedonistic and lascivious ways...

The irony of this being a comment on a comment left by... Maggie.

So, according to Oldloadr, the fact that we have Ted... is because of... Maggie.

Heh. Get thee to a Nunnery!

by John of Argghhh! on January 10, 2007 10:21 AM

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John - I think my Freudian slip is showing...

by Oldloadr on January 10, 2007 11:00 AM

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Does Bush ever make a speech where the details haven't already been splashed on the front page?

I suspect the Dems have their cunning plans. I think Bush has a hard sell on this. I'm not convinced myself that 20,000 more is much of a plan but let's see what he says.

We are bombing Somilia because we want their oil. Wot no oil? Would you believe bananas? How about mangoes?

Ry throwing us crumbs, albeit big crumbs, at the end does not a positive post make. God that word almost looks like Albright. That's unforgivable.

by Trias on January 10, 2007 11:51 AM

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WTF!!!!!! I am to blame for Ted? And the only way for us to be saved is me in a nunnery? That is the cruelest thing I have ever heard. Armorer, you are diabolical. Do I have to go right now? The favorite Naval Consort is in Newport tonight I've already scheduled a body polish and pizza delivery to my favorite hotel........and I have General Petraeus' new Field Manual on CI......the CINC is going to speak to us at 2100.....I have a whole plan.....(breaks off, sobbing).....

by Maggie on January 10, 2007 12:24 PM

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But even if Teddy were to die (by natural causes of course), would we even know it?

All of his boozing has already left him pickled.

LOL

by fdcol63 on January 10, 2007 12:25 PM

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fdcol63 - It probably takes a lot of boozing to keep Mary Jo's ghost asleep... And yes, I am assuming that he has a conscience.

by Oldloadr on January 10, 2007 01:53 PM

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Talk to Oldloadr - he made the connection, I just made the suggestion!

by John of Argghhh! on January 10, 2007 01:58 PM

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In lieu of trackback, thought some of your readers might be interested in seeing what else our wounded troops are in need of at combat support hospitals. Sheets, towels & other stuff

by Laurie on January 10, 2007 02:03 PM

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Maggie, Ma'am--you know your GA's reports have to be classified because all the other GAs like to read them? For *cough* the stories. Just the stories. I notice your emulation of the Holy St. Thomas Aquinas, who caused great amus^H^H^H^Hconsternation among us by praying "Lord, make me virtuous! But not yet."

by carborundum on January 10, 2007 02:19 PM

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fdcol63 - It probably takes a lot of boozing to keep Mary Jo's ghost asleep... And yes, I am assuming that he has a conscience.

Oldldr, I'd almost believe it... except that for him having gone this long without acknowledging and making what restitution is possible argues heavily for any conscience having died long ago.

by FbL on January 10, 2007 03:09 PM

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FbL,

"... acknowledging and making what restitution is possible ..."

LOL - I know the Kennedys have scads of money, but the only way he could have met these conditions, IMHO, would have been for Teddy to:

1) Plead GUILTY to the charges: a) DUI; b) involuntary manslaughter; c) leaving the scene of an accident involving death or serious bodily harm; and d) obstruction of justice.

2) Serve the mininum required sentence for all charges above.

3) Pay all associated court costs.

4) Become ineligible, as a convicted felon, for election to national office, including the Senate.

We really didn't think all that was going to happen, though, did we? LOL

by fdcol63 on January 10, 2007 03:23 PM

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I wasn't thinking of money.

by FbL on January 10, 2007 03:49 PM

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Ted will never die

He's drank so much he's embalmed.

by BloodSpite on January 10, 2007 10:29 PM

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"Ry - Regarding Larisa of At-Largely: How did you find this one?"

I found that using the Memorandum aggregator(yet another tool I stole from John at some point.). John also made a good recommendation that I read as broadly as possible. As have others. You never know who has a nugget worth going after.
And if I didn't go out into the hinterlands I'd lose my ability to be random@55/crazy. I'd cease to be of use.

The Pakistan thing? She's right and utterly, utterly wrong. Pakistani fighters did get involved in Afghanistan, some paid and trained by us and some paid by OBL when he set up a parrallel group to go fight the Sovs, and they did become the nucleus for the Taliban(if memory serves. Been a while since I read up on that part of the world). The rest? Seems like a highly partisan look at history.

Mushariff is not a bossom buddy. Pakistan has always been an ally of necessity and not because of its sterling reputation and liberal mind set. I hate to be all real-politik here, but the real world sometimes requires people to partake of bastardly actions. Pakistan is not such a great friend. Nobody who has even done a terse amount of reading on the subject of Pak-US relations knows this. It's complicated and always has been.

by ry on January 10, 2007 11:15 PM

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wasn't that Saint Augustine?

by MajMike on January 11, 2007 03:54 PM

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MajMike - The real point is that there is no St. Maggie.

by Maggie on January 11, 2007 05:49 PM

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Organize the voters of the commonwealth to turn-out Kerry and Kennedy, Maggie - and all options are open...

by John of Argghhh! on January 11, 2007 06:01 PM

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Ahhh, Armorer - Would that I could! I am but one of repressed minority here in Massachusetts.

"Nobody knows the trouble I've seen..........."

by Maggie on January 11, 2007 10:47 PM

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I think that was supposed to be a hint to create a bimbo erruption to get rid of both Kerry and Kennedy, Maggs. You're tough. you can take one for the team. Okay, two.

by ry on January 12, 2007 12:56 AM

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Ry - Bimbo eruptions don't damage Democrats. They've been given a Get Out Of Jail card by the feminists. Only right-wingers are damaged by bimbo eruptions.

Maggie - no one said sainthood would be easy. Get to work, girl. Or get to the Nunnery!

by John of Argghhh! on January 12, 2007 07:58 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

{Anyone want to keep a book on how long it takes before Big Tribble, with Leggs, decides to play a little soccer with gollum's noggin'?---ry}

« Secure this line!

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Shesh Ry...try some Decaf bro :)

Good round up btw!

by BloodSpite on January 9, 2007 07:27 AM

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Take it from someone who has seen "The Hat".... and watched her 5 yr old son remove said hat from it's owner's head.... SAVE YOURSELF, JESS.... LEAVE THE HAT ALONE. It's the grungiest thing I've seen in a LONG time, but it's pretty much attached itself to Ry's head until it falls apart (which won't be long, Jess!)

by AFSister on January 9, 2007 07:37 AM

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The code word at Casa Way is "the Woobie". You don't mess with each other's Woobies, whatever they are ... mine was a sweatshirt, and when I finally agreed that it needed to be put down, we had a little ceremony. heh.
(Anyone who doesn't recognize "Woobie" should go watch Mr. Mom again.)

by Barb on January 9, 2007 08:40 AM

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Kennedy, Reuters and Vietnam: That squares with everything I have read and learned about Kennedy and the Vietnam war in the past few years, though I was not aware of the Lodge/reuters connection.

Kennedy may yet prove to be one of the worst presidents we've had since Wilson, but I don't think he'll ever come close to Carter (who also made decisions in a vacuum and told his advisors about it afterward-so did Johnson, now that I think about it). Kennedy was not inept, but you ought to read how he basically turned Ike's hyper-efficient, well organized white house operation into a two-person (him an' Bobby) cult of personality and family...

Feh on the lot of 'em. Now if Teddy would just go away, we'd all sleep a little happier.

by SangerM on January 9, 2007 08:41 AM

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Now if Teddy would just go away, we'd all sleep a little happier

Oh yeah!

by Maggie on January 9, 2007 09:23 AM

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I wasn't zinging you, I was aiming for the Zooomie fans. I am the Swabie Doxie, one of the two Navy girls according to the Chief. Doesn't the Air Force have any groupies out here?

by Maggie on January 9, 2007 10:04 AM

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AFSis, one would think. But we have a retired Hog-driver on staff. Ya'd think he'd a had something to type.

Probably using the "But I'm flying right now!" excuse.

by John of Argghhh! on January 9, 2007 10:20 AM

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Here we go: Standard media-manipulation tactics:

"My 4-year-old boy was killed in the strike," Mohamed Mahmud Burale told the AP by telephone. "We also heard 14 massive explosions."

Yeah, right. Who was holding the boy? Where were mom and dad? BS-call on this one (but don't ask for the body, they might make one)...

And who would be counting explosions when his child was in harm's way. He may have been counting explosions, but not doing that while his child was getting bombed.

"Daqane said two newlyweds were among the dead Tuesday."

Of course. There's newlyweds everywhere that Americans shoot, dontcha know. Must be we're trying to prevent new little baby radicals since everyone knows they don't have sex until after they're married.

BS-call on this one too. Of course, the AP had to report that stuff, didn't it.

by SangerM on January 9, 2007 10:40 AM

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Yep!
I'm a zoomie fan! I was going to blog about the attacks in Somolia, but life has been interrupting my blogging. (namely, my home pc is shot; I'm busy as heck at work, and I've been preoccupied with a lot of life incidents)

GO ZOOMIES!

by AFSister on January 9, 2007 11:09 AM

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Well, that's one sub commander who's losing his boat.... damn. I hate it when screwups like that happen.

by AFSister on January 9, 2007 11:13 AM

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You know, an AC-130 doesn't shoot anything that doesn't explode. So... how could anybody count 14 explosions. I know the 105mm is louder than the 40mm which is louder than the 20mm or 25mm (depending on model), but I just don't see counting to 14 when all of that is raining down.

by Oldloadr on January 9, 2007 12:14 PM

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They don't call it "Steel Rain" and "Puff the Magic Dragon" for nothing.

I agree with Oldloadr & SangerM. Don't make no sense.

by BloodSpite on January 9, 2007 07:07 PM

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YOu know, I have a friend who teaches journalism and runs a HS newspaper. She doesn't believe me when I say that journalists need to accept that they are part of the battle. By 'going for balance' they are often times aiding people's information campaigns and helping them build narratives that become the accepted knowledge(like bombing in Cambodia was an 'escalation of the war'). Idjits.
We don't want 'balanced'. We want fair and honest, but would prefer the straight truth or naked facts even more. Balance for the sake of balance blows.

While I give the current Admin hell for not being able to build a narrative or wage anything remotely close to a coherent information campaign I often wonder if it's even possible for them to do so. Given what sanger uncovered and the leak of the meat of the Pres' speech a full day before.

by ry on January 9, 2007 09:51 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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Congratulations to both of you! :)

by FbL on January 7, 2007 09:50 AM

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Congratulations!

by seawitch on January 7, 2007 10:14 AM

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Congratulations!

by Cassandra on January 7, 2007 10:19 AM

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Happy Anniversary! Congratulations, hope you two have a wonderful day :-)

by Barb on January 7, 2007 10:35 AM

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Hey thats awesome!
Congratz!

by BloodSpite on January 7, 2007 11:06 AM

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Felicidades Boss & S4UBO.

Time is fun when you're having flies.

by Boquisucio on January 7, 2007 01:09 PM

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Happy Anniversary to both of you and I wish you many, many more...:)

by Carrie on January 7, 2007 01:09 PM

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Happy Anniversary!

by Maggie on January 7, 2007 03:26 PM

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Congratulations and Happy Anniversary, John & Beth!

Oh ... and thanks, John! I never had a pay problem while you were S-1 .... er, except for the amount, due to my very "junior enlisted" pay grade. LOL

by fdcol63 on January 7, 2007 07:23 PM

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Happy Anniversary!

by Trias on January 7, 2007 08:19 PM

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Congatulations!

by UtahMan on January 7, 2007 08:36 PM

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Many happy returns.

You and Beth rock.

by Cricket on January 7, 2007 09:29 PM

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HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!! And proof-positive that Beth is a candidate for beatification.

Heh. I haven't had an OER since the Walks-On-Water, Promote-Immediately-to-CW5 one I got in Boz.

by BillT on January 8, 2007 12:33 AM

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Sugarbuttons has his Bosnian name: He Who Walks On Water. Or 'dips the skids with Hubert.'

by Cricket on January 8, 2007 07:30 AM

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The BBC picked up the letter story and ran it under the following headline: US Army urges dead to re-enlist...
Here's the link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6237607.stm

by Oldloadr on January 8, 2007 12:45 PM

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I wish y'all many happy returns of the day!

by Justthisguy on January 8, 2007 10:56 PM

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Oh, FbL, there doesn't seem to be any way I can put a comment on yer blog, so I'll just say, here, that there is a difference between Monkey Machismo and Kewl Rational Manliness. The better class of wimmin can tell the difference, and the same with the men. I do hope the more discerning judges of character prevail.

I believe that the Marines rate their officers very seriously on "presence of mind", i.e. keeping a clear head and thinking rationally in crazy violent situations.

by Justthisguy on January 8, 2007 11:14 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

Nope, he ain't dropped an Acme anvil on me head yet. But I know it'll happen. That's why we sleep with one eye open 'round here.--ry

[THWOCK! -the Armorer]

« Secure this line!

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I'm in disagreement with Worthington on this one. His central argument seems to be that the incident in question wasn't newsworthy since it happens in every war. Well, battles happen in every war too, and we still expect reporting on those. Soldiers are killed, and that's still reported. Today there's an article by Bill Graveland of the Canadian Press about the intelligence of the average Canadian soldier - not news to me, certainly, but probably to many Canadians who have no familiarity with our military.

Blatchford is one of the best media friends the CF has - witness her Ross Monroe award this year - and doesn't deserve Worthington's criticism on this. I appreciate his perspective most of the time, but he's being petty on this one.

by Damian on January 7, 2007 01:46 PM

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Just as a point of useless trivia, Wajid Khan is ex-military, but not ex-Canadian-military. He was a fighter pilot in Pakistan before emigrating to Canada decades ago and starting up a successful car dealership in Toronto.

So John, you're tying in mil-bloggy stuff even when you don't know it!

by Damian on January 8, 2007 04:52 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

Nope, he ain't dropped an Acme anvil on me head yet. But I know it'll happen. That's why we sleep with one eye open 'round here.--ry

[THWOCK! -the Armorer]

« Secure this line!

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Typo, or double entendre?

by Laurie on January 5, 2007 10:58 AM

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Well, in a sense, yes. But I rather suspect typo with subconscious component than deliberate.

by John of Argghhh! on January 5, 2007 11:00 AM

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I suspect Spell-Check dependancy...

by Oldloadr on January 5, 2007 12:08 PM

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Well, certainly, for it slipping through.

I'm trying for Deep Meaning for it showing up at all!

by John of Argghhh! on January 5, 2007 12:11 PM

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to get the full effect of that Future Force Warrior briefing, you really need to have seen it done in an auditorium with Prince John Abrams doing the talking and then showing the film clips....

completely blew me away.

was just waiting for someone to call "Johnny Rico" in the middle of it.

by MajMike on January 5, 2007 12:26 PM

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John, please stop updating this post. The ones about the British military are enough to make me want to... well, it's not something good. :(

*going off to mourn the decline of Britain as a world power of any significance*

What a bunch of fools must be in charge over there...

by FbL on January 5, 2007 12:50 PM

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Natick Labs has been touting the Super Soldier (formerly "Robosoldier," "Soldier 21," and a couple of other codenames) ensemble for almost twenty years -- only difference is that a lot of the gear's finally been *invented*.

I figure by the time they finally get it ruggedized sufficiently, it'll weigh 75 pounds and cost $1.8 billion for each set -- which will then have to be individually fitted to the wearer immediately after the six-week block of instruction on where to find the batteries and how to change them.

And, with the Dems in charge of the budget, we may be able to field two full squads (one Army, one Marine), but we won't have the cash to buy any ammo.

"The side with the simplest uniform wins..."

by BillT on January 5, 2007 01:07 PM

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Re: "The Letter"

*barf*

John, I warned you to stop posting on this! ;)

by FbL on January 5, 2007 02:47 PM

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I thought someone reported that LandWarrior was axed(wasn't it DefenseTech?)?

by ry on January 5, 2007 03:00 PM

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Re: The Letter

Can I suggest that "W" take a page from MacAuliffe's book?

by Maggie on January 5, 2007 03:28 PM

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Hey - 100% of the Microsofties in the Denizen crew would have loved a laptop, too! We're not the 'right kind' of bloggers, John.

Then again, I've been running Vista on my own hardware at home since RC1, as have thousands of other people who downloaded it from the web.

by Barb on January 5, 2007 03:55 PM

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I object to:

"Adding more combat troops will only endanger more Americans and stretch our military to the breaking point for no strategic gain."

No Strategic Gain? Are they speaking about Iraq internally or our position in the region?

I also object to the generic:

"A renewed diplomatic strategy, both within the region and beyond, is also required to help the Iraqis agree to a sustainable political settlement."

Within the region is clearly in regards to their continued push to "talk" with Syria and Iran.

Bull Frogs!

Some aspects I don't totally disagree with such as phased redeployment and focus on training. However, I disagree on the time frame and I am sure I would disagree on the number of troops to be "redeployed" in that time frame. The training is already being done, but would like to see an even larger effort. However, being more realistic than the Dems, I know there is a limit to the number of trainees and the amount of training they could sustain in a given time period. This would take a great deal more time and troops than the Dems are expecting. We would also require the focus of our forces being trained and deployed to be greatly reduced to "how to train foreign forces", which is already a problem for us.

Further, the Dem theory leads us directly to Vietnam type withdrawal that would lead to leaving the Iranians with virtual control of Iraq.

Not something I am willing to contemplate.

I don't think the Dem strategy has been any better planned out than any other strategy. it is strictly an internal political move so they can claim to have ended the Iraq war in the next election. clearly they believe that the fallout from such a move would be minimal or ...

I don't know...it seems fantastical to believe that global diplomacy could effectively minimize the effect of an Iranian dominated Iraq that would also change the power leadership within OPEC to be an Iranian/Venezuelan/Iraq (everybody hating our guts). What sort of economic fall out would that cause once they consolidated their votes to decrease the flow of oil?

Not only economic, but it would mean they would effectively control our ability to deploy militarily by controlling oil and thus fuel required.

Which, i suppose the Dems don't mind because they want to cut the military and go back to clintonesque response to attacks and threats.

What a bunch of .

On the flip side, there are some things I may agree on peripherally:

Putting more emphasis on Iraqi control and security is something that everyone has been talking about. Giving them more responsibility may be an answer. For sure, an Iraqi kicking down the door and accidently shooting someone has a lot less ramifications than if a US marine did the same. Or, if an Iraqi stomps a suspected terrorist into the ground.

Secondly, a small power vaccuum may cause Iran to put more resources and money into Iraq to try to gain more influence. We need to make it as expensive as possible for them. A little misadventure in Iraq could help create a little financial fiasco that would destabilize the Iranian mullahcracy.

also, a little lawlessness gives us an opportunity to send some money, guns and trouble the other way, if you no what I mean. ;)

by kat-missouri on January 5, 2007 04:05 PM

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I've known GB was in decline but had no idea it was quite so accute.

Bush talked about bipartisanship for what reason? Neither he nor the new House really intend to get along.

by Trias on January 5, 2007 04:46 PM

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Trias, you lost me. Why are you mentioning Bush and bipartisanship when the letter is from Reid and Pelosi?

by FbL on January 5, 2007 05:07 PM

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Upon further thought, I think I understand, Trias. Are you saying that Bush should be compromising with the Democrats instead of going in a different direction than they want?

If so, it seems you are holding "bipartisanship" above all. If Bush and his advisors firmly believe a "surge" is in the ultimate best interests of the U.S., are you suggesting he adjust his military plans simply for the sake of cooperation with his political opponents?

That's one of the things that drives me nuts about politics today--the fact that in wartime even military strategy is just part of the game. There are rights and wrongs here (I don't claim to be an expert on either of them), and they have powerful consequences. I am not impressed with the idea that military strategy must be negotiated with people whose preferred strategies the person in ultimate responsibility believes would be detrimental to the country.

by FbL on January 5, 2007 05:27 PM

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I just realized that the Dem letter (as usual) is frankly an opportunistic bunch of *bleep* meant to take credit for something the military already said it wanted to do.

I forgot how to leave a link so here's the long version:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=newsOne&storyid=2007-01-03T233427Z_01_MAC354655_RTRUKOT_0_TEXT0.xml&src=010307_1952_TOPSTORY_military_looks_at_options_for_iraq

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. commanders in Iraq expect to have handed over full control of the country's security and armed forces to the Iraqi authorities by the end of this year, a U.S. general said on Wednesday.

Major General William Caldwell, a spokesman, also told a news conference that Iraq's military and police planned to buy hundreds of armored vehicles, as well as helicopters, under a $150 million agreement signed last month with the United States.

Describing 2007 as the "Year of Transition", Caldwell said that by summer all 11 Iraqi army divisions to have been formed by that time would be directly under the command of the Iraqi government and by autumn all of Iraq's 18 provincial governors would be in charge of security in their regions.

"By the end of this year, the dynamics will be entirely different," he said. [snip]

However, it is in line with remarks in recent months by General George Casey, the U.S. commander in Iraq, about when he believes Iraqi forces will be able to cope largely without U.S. help.

Caldwell said the United States would continue to provide logistical and intelligence support, as well as work to ensure the "loyalty" of some units of the Iraqi forces -- many in Saddam Hussein's once dominant Sunni Arab minority accuse some of being loyal not to the government but to sectarian Shi'ite militias."

They can't even come up with their own d*m plan. The only thing they want is to piggy back "talking to Iran" on an existing plan.

What a bunch of *bleep*

by kat-missouri on January 5, 2007 07:26 PM

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Fuzzy - I think you are overthinking what Trias was referring to.

If I read Trias correctly - he's referring to Bush's speech where he talked about bipartisanship where he probably doesn't mean it, and my list of little things the Dems are doing (and all those things I didn't mention).

In other words, Trias is just being like most of us - quit being mealy-mouthed (on both sides) and say what you mean, not what you think we all want to hear.

Or something to that effect.

I didn't come away with any deeper meaning that a Trias-like "A pox on both your houses!"

But I'm sure he'll defend himself if he feels it needs defending.

by John of Argghhh! on January 5, 2007 08:23 PM

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Fuzzy - I think you are overthinking...

Well, that would certainly be novel for me! ;)

by FbL on January 5, 2007 08:41 PM

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Ry - LandWarrior was the original "system of systems" approach, with each GI having a flat screen GPS slaved to an IFF embedded in his tac vest, "smart" cammo that used a helmet-mounted, rearward scanning camera sending digits to a processor that sent 'trons to itty-bitty LEDs woven into the fabric to match the GI's background. And the whole thing was water-cooled. Oooops -- *glycerine* cooled.

The helmet had a short ballistic faceplate that was supposed to meld imagery from an IR camera, a low-light camera and the GPS to augment the squad radio conformally mounted on the side to give the wearer "complete" situational awareness. In actually, it just gave the testers headaches.

And the weapon (they called it the Buck Rogers up at Picatinny) was an over-and-under job combining a one-off shoulder-fired 20mm cannon and a Son-of-Stoner that fired 3mm needles (caseless, of course) at something like 3,000 rounds-per. And weighed forty pounds. With integral bipod. The fuzes of the 20mm rounds were electronically set by a laser rangefinder, so they'd produce airbursts over an enemy position. The system wouldn't function in precipitation of any kind.

Would have scared the bejeebers out of the bad guys, but the only thing that worked with any consistency was the squad radio. Supposedly, one of the engineers at Pic took the whole kit and kaboodle (except for Buck Rogers) home so his kid could pretend to be a Space Marine every Hallowe'en...

by BillT on January 5, 2007 09:11 PM

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1)I have read STARSHIP TROOPERS about a dozen times.

2)The Army tried some of this stuff earlier (beta version)...it came in at a ball-busting 100 lbs...and that was before adding in carrying beans and bullets.

3)Live by the battery...die by the battery...

4)MORE BOOTS ON THE GROUND....I'm just sayin is all.....

by haji0matic on January 5, 2007 09:13 PM

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Fuzzy: I mentioned it because recently Bush made a speech about bipartisanship between the house and himself.

I'm not saying what Bush should do. It's up to Bush if he holds bipartisanship or the military goals above all. One way is disasterous the other nearly impossible. I do not envy his position. I'm basically saying call it how it is, not just for Bush but for the Dem's in the House as well.

by Trias on January 5, 2007 11:16 PM

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Here's a forum thread which I stumbled upon yesterday. Contains some rather amusing stories, mainly from enlisted soldiers. Warning it's rather long, 120 pages atm, and has attracted some of the ususal idiots which pop up in any thread military. Though not as bad as the post above me.

Link Here

[This comment is in response to a since-removed piece of troll-scat. We try to keep the Castle clean. Honest disagreement is encouraged, mindless flinging of poop is removed. -the Armorer]

by DoesNotMatter on January 6, 2007 07:27 AM

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DANG IT.
If only I was a uber-popular techblogger I wouldn't have to worry about replacing the screen for my laptop right now! DANG IT! I closed it up Tuesday night with a pen in a groove on the keyboard and cracked the screen.... GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

by AFSister on January 6, 2007 08:08 AM

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Uhm, my first post does not refer to trias but rather a since then banished troll which discovered caps-lock

by DoesNotMatter on January 6, 2007 08:16 AM

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"Cindy" who is a Muslim in Germany, doesn't really like us much.

He uses a real email, oddly enough.

He's no better in email.

I sent him a note expressing my sincere hope that he achieves the martyrdom he so avidly wishes on others, or is he one of those wimps who sends others to do his dirty work?

by John of Argghhh! on January 6, 2007 08:43 AM

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Uber-popular Tech-Blogger.....

*whistles innocently......and hides*

Ok ok so the latter may apply but the former doesn't. Except in Israel (Don't ask me why but half our hits each month come from there)

What type of laptop is it AFSis? Sent me some notes, specs etc etc etc. I might be able to either get you some parts or help you find a decent repair guru in your area.

by BloodSpite on January 6, 2007 09:49 AM

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As we say in the mental health biz, iris has "some serious issues". LOL

Either that, or she's tripping on some of the same blue microdot acid that I saw floating around the billets in the early '80's. LOL

by fdcol63 on January 6, 2007 01:06 PM

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I assure you, everyone, there were *no* drugs in our barracks.

Fdcol is, I'm sure, *mistaken*.

Hmph!

8^D

by John of Argghhh! on January 6, 2007 01:45 PM

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You're right, John ..... absolutely none! LOL

Musta just been a bad dream ... kinda like that one I had about a Beavers post-wide formation on the parade field in front of 6/14 FA, and those MP and Polizei vans whizzing through with those loud, yappy canines! LOL

by fdcol63 on January 8, 2007 08:48 AM

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...and the subguns. Polizei with subguns.

That was my last big formation as Adjutant before I moved up to the D/A S4 shop. And the D/A S4 was an aviating Infantryman. Yep.

by John of Argghhh! on January 8, 2007 09:00 AM

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I always screw this up. 2 is intel. 3 is supply(or is it personel?)? 4 is ops? (Sigh.) I really needs a better edumacation than I'm able to give myself.

by ry on January 8, 2007 06:22 PM

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US Usage.

S1 = Personnel and Administration
S2 = Intel
S3 = Operations and Training
S4 = Logisitics
S5 = Civil Military Relations.

There are others, but really, only geeks like me deal with them.

S = Brigade and below Staff.
G = General Staff (Division and Above)
J = Joint Staff (Joint Commands, not just the JCS)

by John of Argghhh! on January 8, 2007 07:13 PM

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Ah, thankee.

Wait, what's that falling? Owwww-uh!

by ry on January 8, 2007 07:58 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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You have got to give a guy more warnin than that sir.

I was sitting here casually enjoying my coffee when I clicked that last link.

I don't think I'll finish it

by BloodSpite on January 4, 2007 08:34 AM

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On Nº 1: Them boys had a great Hadj-Huntin' day

On Nº 2: That wasn't a heckling mob, it was Conyer's own cheering section. Give me an A...

On Nº 3: Though he may make a great counselor at the local hospice. He'll be great leading a "Let's meet your worst fears face-to-face" kinda Group Session.

by Boquisucio on January 4, 2007 08:51 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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I scored a 21 on the test, but it's a bull$hit test. Regan was not the 100% conservative, the questions were biased in a number of ways, and there is no telling how they were weighted.

For example, a common problem in surveys like this is leading for answers. E.g.: "#21. As a society, we should spend more money trying to find a cure for AIDS than for cancer and heart disease because AIDS threatens younger people."

The "becasue" is what will key people to make an answer if they don't ignore it. In other words, you might feel that AIDS is a greater threat but not because it threatens younger people. This sets up a conflict in anyone who cannot ignore the bias-weight, and they don't lnow how to answer. I'd bet a lot of people choose false, because age of the afflicted is not an important reason to them. The economic drain on society or the contagion issue might actually carry more weight with people, so this question asked with a different bias-weight would get different answers. And my point here is that answering this question one way does not make you a conservative, nor does answering it the other way make you a liberal. Many elderly people are liberals, many young people are conservatives, where is the connection.

I hate when I get caught up in stupid stuff like this... Feh on me!!!

by SangerM on January 3, 2007 04:09 PM

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Sanger you liberal you.

I'm Jack Kemp.

Heh.

I didn't like the structure of this one at all.

by John of Argghhh! on January 3, 2007 05:12 PM

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Heh. Snarked by the indirect approach.

I'm going to have to install some ferret traps.

by John of Argghhh on January 3, 2007 05:17 PM

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Ry - I'm surprised at you. I don't know why people are giggling. My SB is much neater than I....he also irons better. Sailors like things ship-shape! John is putting things in the dishwasher because it's orderly.

by Maggie on January 3, 2007 10:14 PM

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30. I am Jack Kemp.....but prettier.

"Who do you trust more? The Joint Chiefs or the United Nations" LOL

"Abolish public broadcasting" This one was just silly. Tax dollars account for just 15% of their budget.

by Maggie on January 3, 2007 10:30 PM

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Actually, abolishing public broadcasting was the one thing I was absolutely certain should be done. And I would gladly pull the plug myself. Either that or I would restructure the organization so that people who reported anything but the provable truth as news would not only be fired, but would be heavily fined as well. It is after all a public trust, not a liberal welfare crutch, and I would love nothing more than to be the one to tell NPR to clean up and balance the reporting or to get new reporters. And editors. And producers. I don't want news slanted my way, I don't want news slanted any way, and that's where I have a problem with NPR.

I used to donate heavily to them. I stopped that several yaers ago, and now I don't even listen to NPR. It's credibility is virtually nil with me.

by SangerM on January 3, 2007 10:44 PM

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Aw. Come on.

That was some good natured ribbing right there. He's threatened me with being made a privy plack honoree, you know. That's probably the one scoring snark I'll have all year while he'll have hundreds(I'm an easy mark, like the post he made for people to write down what a goofball I was in oh so many ways)! Don't be 'the mom' and kill the fun Maggs. Of course it's all fun until someone loses and eye(or get's bit by a ferret).

I came up 27. That's about right for me I think. Center-ish, but with some strong conservative tendencies.

I'm with Sanger on NPR and CPC---if only 15% comes from the gov't then they can get along with out it and fight for themselves in the market place. And to say that there isn't a slant? You have to live in Alter-land to believe that.

And let's get rid of NEA(arts, not edu). A great nation may deserve great art, but that doesn't mean we want it or need it(what with homelessness still in existance we shold be paying for ART?).

by ry on January 3, 2007 11:18 PM

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Light up, guys! :) Of course it's a silly little quiz. Notice I called it "fun," not "determinative," or "good" or "well-made."

by FbL on January 3, 2007 11:23 PM

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Interesting - but meaningless as noted above. I scored a 36, just to the right of Kemp - which is actually about where I sit. And I would help you pull the plug on NPR, Sanger & Ry. Not that I listen to it unless forced to.

by Barb on January 3, 2007 11:56 PM

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Heh. NPR. I used to do a lot of driving between Fort Sill and KC, or between KC and San Antonio during the 90's. I had presets on the radio for all the NPR stations on the route.

I *liked* NPR then. They had lots of talky, story-telling shows and segments that gave voice to people or stories the MSM simply didn't have the time or inclination to touch. Sure, there was a liberal tint to a lot of it, but it was still fun and informative. We donated.

Then Bush got elected, and they rapidly morphed into rabid little toy poodle gnawing at W's trouser cuffs.

And many of the little voices and stories got lost as they succumbed to their inner liberal and suffered from Bush Derangement Syndrome - covering stories the MSM covered, only with an even more liberal sneer.

We quit donating money.

I wonder if they can find their way back? I'd be willing to donate again if they'd do something other than sneer at me.

Sigh. But it wouldn't kill me if we killed them, either.

by John of Argghhh! on January 4, 2007 07:16 AM

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Light up, guys! :)

While the Castle is not a No Smoking Zone per se, we prefer you take your habit outdoors, near the moat, where the monster loves the smell of burning tobacco.

Just sayin'.

by John of Argghhh! on January 4, 2007 07:19 AM

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Ry - I am not speaking to you any further. Call me "mom", humph!

I wasn't advocating continued funding to CPB, I was saying that stopping tax dollars would not abolish public broadcasting. It will continue with private and corporate donations. That's the way it should be. If you like it, you should chip in, if not then you shouldn't be forced to support it with your taxes. I, myself, watch and listen and I am looking forward to next weekend's "Henry VIII". I clicked off stopping funding on the quiz.

by Maggie on January 4, 2007 09:31 AM

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I scored a 28. Then I went to the link Ry posted about the new SeeLected UN Sec Gen. What an agenda.
He wants to restore trust in the UN and leave the death penalty to the various nations, but wants to address problems in Africa.

Lessee how this one goes, cause if there is ever a misguided body, that pack of one worlders is it.
I don't know that I want trust restored in the UN.

But that's just me.

by Cricket on January 4, 2007 01:38 PM

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Hey, John! No going back and changing other peoples' comments. I KNOW there was an "en" on the end of "light" in my comment! :P

by FbL on January 4, 2007 02:03 PM

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Heh - wanna see the email notification?

8^)

by John of Argghhh! on January 4, 2007 02:16 PM

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34. Who the hell is Jack Kemp, and why isn't Barry Goldwater on this ridiculous scale?

by MCart on January 5, 2007 12:28 AM

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Yeah, why no Barry Goldwater? He Could Do No Wrong. Even the Democrats respected him.

by Cricket on January 6, 2007 08:57 AM

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36 - would've been higher, but I trusted the Post Office over the Pentagon.

by Harvey on January 7, 2007 07:10 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

Ahh, Sanger - that was good to read. Good to remember that life having ups and downs is to be expected, and that we should appreciate the good more in perspective against that which tests us. Well said, and Happy New Year!

by Barb on January 2, 2007 08:54 PM

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Ah, Sanger. Glad you're still with us, dude. And the Rant Mantle is yours whenever you choose to reclaim it. ;)

by ry on January 2, 2007 11:06 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

We canceled the bonfire after it started snowing here. It didn't stick but was sort of a nice New Years Eve treat.

Ended up watching Baby Einstein (for the kids) and making sandwiches with Champagne. Coaxed me to drag my guitar out around 11 and my daughter showed off her uber-mad guitar strumming skills while Dad played :)

A Wild Night indeed! Happy New Year everyone!

by BloodSpite on January 1, 2007 10:56 AM

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ANd what's the good news, BG?

I'm hoping it's that somethign went into remission and never comes back. Cancer. Scary stuff.

by ry on January 1, 2007 12:57 PM

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Hmm - that last bit looks to have Bill's digital fingerprints on it, despite the lack of sig. Anywho - sounds good to me on the citizenship thing (and good to know about Vulture29!). I think part of the knee-jerk negative is the phrasing "foreign recruitment", implying a bunch of recruiters plunked down in other countries trying to sell the Army as a means of emigrating. It's the context more than the idea, if you get my drift.

by Barb on January 1, 2007 01:59 PM

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I share you utter disgust with the MSM's approach to this country and it's military.

I try to document how awful they are presenting false "conventional wisdom's" to the public, such as Saddam having "no links" to terrorism at www.regimeofterror.com.

Keep up the great work friend!!

Mark

by Mark on January 1, 2007 06:08 PM

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Well, Bill, automatic it wasn't! I still had to apply, take a test and show up to be sworn in.

Scottish by birth, American by choice.

by V29 on January 2, 2007 12:34 PM

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Mere formalities. The only thing you *really* had to do was show up. Sober.

by BillT on January 2, 2007 01:45 PM

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A Scotsman ... sober?? Since when?
Heh.

by Barb on January 2, 2007 08:57 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

If the weather clears up we'll be drinking cold ones by a bonfire with some friends and playing old Bluegrass, country and folk tunes.

Not exactly a wild night in the woods, but a nice way to bring in the New Year anyway

by BloodSpite on December 31, 2006 11:12 AM

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Were we a hundred miles closer... that sounds just fine.

by John of Argghhh! on December 31, 2006 11:35 AM

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Your link to Carnival of the recipes got a 404 message. Care to try again?

by dick on December 31, 2006 12:07 PM

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Happy New Year to you, the Mrs. and all your "critters."

by Andi on December 31, 2006 12:28 PM

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Overseas recruiting is one of the dumbest ideas lately. One of the strengths of our military is that they are free men choosing to fight for their freedoms. What does a foreign citizen fight for after joining up? Certainly not that. I would rather see a return to Project 100,000 insanity that this form of it.

by NOTR on December 31, 2006 01:09 PM

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Taking on non US Citizens to serve in US forces is a good idea. The Romans peopled their mighty army with non Romans, and Rome thanked their foreign soldiers by giving them Roman Citizenship. US Citizens that became American by serving in the military will be better citizens than those sneaking across the Rio Grande.
The British Empire had an army of mostly Empire (Indian) troops, and with them we ruled for 300 years.

by MalcolmCog on December 31, 2006 03:25 PM

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Except, dear Malcolm, these foreign troops ended up being the demise of the Roman empire in many ways. Not the least of which were those that returned to their people trained in Roman tactics, lack of loyalty (or conflicted), inability to pay and manage those troops, etc, etc, etc.

I gotta agree...no foreign legion. If we can't manage it, then we don't do it or, if the need is so great and the war so extensive, then lets do the draft.

by kat-missouri on December 31, 2006 04:05 PM

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I find the idea of recruiting in other countries stupid. I would like to see the accelerated citizenship offered to men and women who are Legal Residents right now, and would consider adding a method for illegals who have been working here (but only a small percentage compared to those who have followed the rulez). In fact, if someone has been here already under some legal method, and wants to serve 8 years, I would consider allowing their family members to be accelerated as well - before their 8 years are up ... and sooner if they are injured or die in service.

But no foreign legion - the idea is very bad!

by Barb on December 31, 2006 05:45 PM

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My plans? I'll be drinking the Bud Light by myself and reading on the web, and communing with the kitties. (yah I know, but the dilution saves the kidneys.)

I agree with Barb, and Jerry Pournelle, with regard to foreign legions. That's why it's it's important to contribute to Valour-IT even if you are a selfish cold-blooded a-hole who doesn't care that young men (and wimmin, these days) risk their pale tender bodies for your interests against red-hot flying metal!

That is, when The Republic falls over, you want to be on the good side of The Legions. I have my receipts.

by Justthisguy on December 31, 2006 09:54 PM

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JTG, you're a riot! *LOL*

Happy New Year to Castle Management, Denizens and Scrupl's. May this coming year be better than the last in every way you would wish.

See you next year!

by FbL on December 31, 2006 10:01 PM

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John, and all,

Happy new year! May this year be a whole bunch better than you even hope! As to recruiting foreigners, take a wander over to strategy pages and read their take on it. Seems like it could be a combination of some foreign and slightly lowering the standards from where they are now. Not recommending, not objecting, just commenting.

SFC Walter M. Clark, USAR Ret.

by Walter M. Clark on December 31, 2006 10:57 PM

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Nice bit about overseas recruiting of foreigners. I've linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2007/01/castle-argghhhs-take-on-overseas.html

by Consul-At-Arms on January 1, 2007 12:45 AM

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I'd have prefered no known grave as well but i respect the Iraqi decision in the matter.

I think a foreign recruiting effort is a risky idea. How would you establish their reasons and would those reasons be particularly compatable with US and military goals? Then there's the way it would be managed and my guess is poorly.

Happy New Year to you All!

by Trias on January 1, 2007 01:23 AM

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But will the grave be secure so that the body isn't moved, thus claiming some sort of ascension?

As to partying, at least fireworks are still legal. We don't indulge, but that is personal
choice, not a matter of law. Our fur children
were inside until two am, when I got up and let them out...since the party animals went indoors at one.

I am happy as there is a sale going on at the local Williams-Sonoma store and there are items of a culinary interest.

So, the Castle Chef is off to ooohh and aaaah over the bright shiny stuff.

Menu:
Fresh squeezed orange juice
Hot beverages of choice are coffee, tea (both tisanes and regular tea) and cocoa

soft scrambled eggs
fried ham
biscuits

Fresh ambrosia, not the canned stuff

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

by Cricket on January 1, 2007 09:01 AM

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Anybody making good-luck meals today? We’re having cabbage, black-eyed peas and country ham.

FYI: Foreign recruiting is not new. In 1980, I had a citizen of the P.I. assigned to my crew. He told me that the Air Force and the Navy had recruiting offices in downtown Manila. Of course, there was a special relationship with the P.I., at least until Mount Pinatubo blew it’s top.

That said, I agree with Kat that the example of Rome is a one to avoid for all of the aforementioned reasons.

by Oldloadr on January 1, 2007 09:28 AM

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Happy New Year to you and yours and all the Denizens. I'm with you on the whole foreign recruiting thing. We man the Army we need with the people we have, or, like you said, make do with a smaller Army. Way too many complications in recruiting from outside our borders. Accelerated citizenship for legal immigrants is good, if they serve they earned it. But that's as far as we need to go down that path.

by Ernie on January 1, 2007 09:40 AM

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1st laugh of the New Year!!! Picturing FbL "running in religious circles"!

Happy New Year to you all!

John - If I had been in your neighborhood I would have come over to cause chaos, for the sake of chaos.

Foreign recruiting bad. Accelerated citizenship good.

Oldloadr - what is lucky about black eyed peas and cabbage? Sounds like you are unlucky enough to have no chocolate.

by Maggie on January 1, 2007 09:49 AM

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Cabbage represents money; I'm not sure what the black-eyed peas represent, but I'm too superstitious to go against my family tradition.

We've had enough chocolate since Thanksgiving in our house to give every teenager in South Carolina zits.

by Oldloadr on January 1, 2007 09:52 AM

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I did some research about the foreign recruiting and agree with the detractors. The biggest reason I would disagree with it has to do with the example of Rome and the aftermath. But there is another reason: The fifth column element. It is bad enough we get these twits bad mouthing the US of A without having someone add fuel to the fire within.

Our ability to adapt shows that the military, like the AMA changes it's ponderous mind at the speed of a glacier traveling south, global warming notwithstanding.

The other option is to pull out when the elections of '08 are finished, regardless of the outcome and let Iraq deal with it and NEVER get involved in something like this again, but strengthen our borders and build our own nation.

by Cricket on January 1, 2007 12:17 PM

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That draft essay is in the works, John. It's just as problematic as the PLAN sub one though. It's 'resting'.

I stand by TN Dupuy though---who cares where they're from so long as they have good leadership, are well trained, and have high moral. Those three are the troika of victory. Which is why a draft sucks. I'd take Jorge from Michochan over a draftee with a crappy 'tude based on the work done by the HERO group that devined the troika. But that's my crazy arse.

by ry on January 1, 2007 12:32 PM

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Re: recruting non native born people to serve in the US Armed Forces.

We (the US) have always done this, in a small way. I have had many many filipino sailors work for me and with me, and I have had an Indonesian guy who was a USMC recruit, did his 4 years and went into the Army. Numerous folks from other countries as well. So, it's been done, although not on a scale that may be needed.

Fifth Column comments and thoughts aside, providing comprehensive security backgrounds for clearances could be a nightmare.

And as an aside, the US, especially the Army's Human Resource Command (HRC), has dropped the ball with respect to retiree volunteers who would come back in a heartbeat. It has taken me since 9/12/01 to get close to coming back. Granted, I got fed up more than once and stopped trying, but in the end, it is something that has to be done, and it's my obligation to this country.

Instead, HRC involuntarily recalls people who sometimes do not show up, and when they do, their goal is to get out ASAP. I had a couple of those in Desert Storm.

I gave the Navy 8 yrs of AD, 6 to the Army, and about 15 to the USAR before they unfunded my IMA slot and pushed me to retire. I can still give them 10 years or so.....let's see what they do with my physical. I was slightly undertall for my weight. A consequence of being a civilian for 8 years. *SIGH*

Best wishes to all for 2007. If I do get picked up, I would be pleased to be a correspondent....

KP
CW4
ex USN EMC (SW/PJ)

by KGP on January 1, 2007 02:46 PM

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Re: recruting non native born people to serve in the US Armed Forces.

We (the US) have always done this, in a small way. I have had many many filipino sailors work for me and with me, and I have had an Indonesian guy who was a USMC recruit, did his 4 years and went into the Army. Numerous folks from other countries as well. So, it's been done, although not on a scale that may be needed.

Fifth Column comments and thoughts aside, providing comprehensive security backgrounds for clearances could be a nightmare.

And as an aside, the US, especially the Army's Human Resource Command (HRC), has dropped the ball with respect to retiree volunteers who would come back in a heartbeat. It has taken me since 9/12/01 to get close to coming back. Granted, I got fed up more than once and stopped trying, but in the end, it is something that has to be done, and it's my obligation to this country.

Instead, HRC involuntarily recalls people who sometimes do not show up, and when they do, their goal is to get out ASAP. I had a couple of those in Desert Storm.

I gave the Navy 8 yrs of AD, 6 to the Army, and about 15 to the USAR before they unfunded my IMA slot and pushed me to retire. I can still give them 10 years or so.....let's see what they do with my physical. I was slightly undertall for my weight. A consequence of being a civilian for 8 years. *SIGH*

Best wishes to all for 2007. If I do get picked up, I would be pleased to be a correspondent....

KP
CW4
ex USN EMC (SW/PJ)

by KGP on January 1, 2007 02:46 PM

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ry,
I won't comment on the state of your tuckus, but
high morale and all the good things notwithstanding, the vetting to screen for those things at the time of recruiting isn't happening.
And there was the fragging incident in the opening days of the war with a soldier who was a member of the Nation of Islam who answered a question about what he thought of fighting against people of his own belief. His comment was: "It depends on what state of jihad they are in."

Scary...as vetting is needed to root out potential problems within before they get too far and hurt friendlies, not the enemy.

Just saying...

by Cricket on January 1, 2007 03:21 PM

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No worries Crik. My point relied heavily on two things: my new found love of flexibility and knowledge of QJMA. I'm not too thrilled with creating a foreign legion myself.

The vetting and what not isn't what worries me so much---LA gangbangers are getting in no problem. It is as someone else pointed out: the Roman analogy. When so few Romans were willing to do the work of the State and relied on bringing others in to do it Rome wound up writting its own death warrant.

If we cannot raise the numbers to do the job internally, with some augmentation of those who want to be Americans and using Service to earn that citizenship, then maybe we ought not be doing it. Of course, we'd have to be able to live with the results of laying that burden down---no Darfur intereventions and the like. TOo many of us can't live with that so we'll find ways to do semi's work with a pickup.

by ry on January 1, 2007 05:28 PM

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1st laugh of the New Year!!! Picturing FbL "running in religious circles"!

Maggie, you cracked me up!

by FbL on January 1, 2007 11:54 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

Oh dear ...
The GoogleEarth image is probably of the Lancaster (PA 474) flying with the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight with further details here .
However, in TundraLand, we have the Mynarski Lancaster (KB 726) flown by the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum. I have enjoyed seeing it in flight several times. Hurricane + Spit + Lanc = 6 Merlins in full song.

For those who travel, the CWHM is in Hamilton, Ontario. Further info: click here.

Cheers,

by J.M. Heinrichs on December 30, 2006 12:04 PM

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Sic Semper Errata, round here.

by John of Argghhh! on December 30, 2006 12:23 PM

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Ry - I've been following Froggy's thoughts on ROE. Did you read the other post?

I am decidely in his camp.

by Maggi on December 30, 2006 03:20 PM

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I posted the GoogleEarth link elsewhere, and the immediate response from some fairly savvy people was skepticism, based on the point that the bomber's shadow isn't readily visible. Can anyone here make a stab as to how high the bomber is, and therefore roughly where one should look to find the shadow?

by wolfwalker on December 31, 2006 10:55 AM

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If it *is* spoofed, then it happened at the original provider (some sattellite imaging company), or is in in-house Google prank. I have no idea how high the thing is.

by John of Argghhh! on December 31, 2006 10:58 AM

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Well Maggs, all I can say is that there's a time for pugnacious and then there's a time for a more subtle style of leadership/strategy. There's places for both. I want pugnacious in spades in the Tip o' The Spear guys, but not so much in other slots. Laying waste about you isn't always the best way. Alexander the Great was a fine killer and as savage as any would've like, but he also worked the other ends to secure what he took by the sword from the Persian empire.

Don't get me wrong. Froggy's no dummy and nobody can ever question the man's courage or skill---SEALs aren't couch potatoes afterall(unlike pudgy ol' gollum, who giggles like the Pillsbury Doughboy). But he's using a track of thought that's been largely discredited. Strategic Bombing to sap the will to fight was based on the same reasoning. Didn't work. Neither did nuclear brinkmanship by Eisenhower against the Chinese in the 50s. Froggy's a great guy with whom I often agree with, but he and his argument are simply and demonstrably wrong on this.

At the end of the day though I hope people remember that we're really on the same side: we want victory with the lowest number of US casualties to attain that victory. We just disagree as the method to proceed to it.

by ry on January 1, 2007 02:46 PM

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Strongly second JM's comment about seeing the CWHM in Hamnilton. Wife and I drove up there (accidentally) and caught the museum durig a celebration. We bought memberships the same day.

Nothing sends goosebumps up the spine like four Merlins synchronized during take off. And for the rich among us, I believe for a pretty reasonable - somewhere in the low four figures - sum you can get a flight in the Lanc at certain times of the year.

by emdfl on January 1, 2007 06:35 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

And someone forgot to put this in when they first set it up. I ain't naming names (looks in AFSis' direction) but someone is getting as sloppy as me. ;)--ry

« Secure this line!

---

He might have read Mahan, but he might be wearing the shoes of Willy 2.

Cheers

by J.M. Heinrichs on December 29, 2006 02:25 PM

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I don't get it JMH. My edumacation is rather incomplete, so to speak. I know it isn't funny if you have to explain it, but care to anyways?

by ry on December 29, 2006 10:45 PM

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can't say that *i* feel any safer now that Saddam is dead, but i do feel vindicated, and happy for the Iraqi's. they have GOT to feel safer now that he, and his sons, can't hurt them anymore. i do, however, have increased safety concerns due to backlash over Saddam's death.

by AFSister on December 30, 2006 08:11 AM

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- The most important political ramification to Saddam’s demise is the Sunnis no longer have a figure-head to rally around.
- So far, it appears that there will be no more or no less attacks in Baghdad…

by Oldloadr on December 30, 2006 08:56 AM

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Maybe I'm alone in this, but the whole Saddam execution thing seemed anticlimactic to me.

AFSis - I went over to Rogue Gunner, but I doubt he's pleased. I stepped in it over the repayment of the WWII loans between the US and GB.

Now the Chinese Navy thing.........that's scary and I've thought that for a while.

Ry - I don't know what Mr. Heinrichs means either. It must be an inside inside joke.

by Maggie on December 30, 2006 10:19 AM

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Willy 2 is Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany. He was quite enthused by Mahan's ideas and decided he needed a fleet which could take on the RN. Unfortunately German Naval production never caught up to the UK and his dreams were rather dashed in WW1.

The Soviet Navy had a similar problem re the USN. Regardless of their efforts, the Red Fleet could not match the productiveness of the US warship industry; it also could not match the USN's deployability. I am yet to be convinced that the PLAN will be any different. I am not suggesting the PLAN is not a threat, I am suggesting that its threat not be inflated.

Cheers

by J.M. Heinrichs on December 30, 2006 12:22 PM

---

China has a local source of petroleum now, in the Indonesian waters, but will soon rely on the Sakhalin Field up the western shore of the Pacific.

They may eventually build a pipeline to the Black Sea to get some of that oil, but their ships, if any, in the Black Sea would be very vulnerable (big ship on a very small ocean). If they only need a Coastal Navy to protect the supertankers which will be bringing them their Russian gas and oil, I don't see much of a need for a real Blue Water Navy, and my guess is that they won't build anything bigger than a DD. A dangerous fleet of the new quieter diesel subs is definitely a possibility, though, and with help from refuelling at Russian ports up the Kamchatka, such a fleet could pose a bad threat to shipping in the Northwest.

China can be enough of a problem with a large Littoral Navy, even if they never build a Blue Water fleet.

by Rivrdog on December 31, 2006 07:53 PM

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I get where you're coming from, JMH. But as we're seeing with OEF and OIF for land forces our ideas about what was necessary seem to be off. If, and its a big if, say a Hillary were to come to office and shoot ADM Mullen's plan to build back up to a 4-500 ship Navy again we could see exactly what the Sovs never did: parity in capablity.
I may have to send you some stuff from a guy I know who follow the PLAN seriously. He's done things about the PLAN carrier program and wrote something called 'Prognosis for China'. He might differ with you on CHinese capabilities, current, and have firmer sources to back it up. Give me a ring if your interested. And have a happy New Year either way, JMH.

by ry on January 1, 2007 05:51 PM

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

I would most certainly given some credit to GB for their support.

by Maggie on December 28, 2006 11:12 AM

---

There, now that I've turned comments back on, I can speak my piece ;-)

FbL - The AP piece is just a regurge of the WaPo piece from Woodward:
"...In his embargoed July 2004 interview with The Washington Post, Ford said the Iraq war was not justified, the Post reported Wednesday night. ..." This is typical AP cheap 'reporting' - I wouldn't be surprised if they have an automated routine on a computer that does the rewrite ... *grin*
The original WaPo piece is here.

by Barb on December 28, 2006 11:20 AM

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Thanks, Barb. It looks like the WaPo article is misleading unless read very closely. But the AP takes what was merely misleading and explicitly twists it. Really pathetic.

by FbL on December 28, 2006 11:24 AM

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Yup, already changed. "Ford had problems with Bush Iraq policy".

by Sigivald on December 28, 2006 03:50 PM

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Ford's words have been quite twisted and as it happens i agree with him. Maybe we need a new term for pretend journalists.

I'm disappointed the US wanted the money back. It's fair business i suppose but certainly not the way I operate. I wonder if we are paying money back. Not sure we got some but we are commonwealth after all.

by Trias on December 28, 2006 06:33 PM

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It takes committed leadership to hold to your promises, especially when it comes to paying your bills over the long term and despite the ups and downs in one's own economy and in relations between governments over decades. Who better to illustrate the courage of one's convictions than an Economic Secretary named Balls?

Sorry.

Couldn't resist.

I'm tired. It happens. -Instapilot

by Instapilot on December 28, 2006 07:49 PM

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Headline on Page 1 of this morning's fishwrapper: "Ford Opposed Iraq War." I feel a Letter to the Ed clawing its way out.

Trias - I think the only WWII debts Oz owes are ones of gratitude -- and so many owe Oz those same debts that the gratitude just keeps flowing, touching shore here and there, compounding interest. Which, in my book, is a *Very* Good Thing.

And, speaking of gratitude, seven Aussie helicopter pilots died flying with us in RVN -- four of the survivors belong to the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots' Association and we're looking to bring in the remaining twenty-three before they pull pitch for Fiddlers' Green...

by BillT on December 28, 2006 08:02 PM

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The debt repayment makes news because the UK had a very large bill at the end of the war. FWIW, one of my profs in 78 mentioned that only Finland and Canada had repaid their WW2 debts at that time. The question could be: who are the other debtors and what are their account standings?

Via PowerLine, a different account of President Ford's last thoughts: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/483757p-407239c.html

Cheers

by J.M. Heinrichs on December 28, 2006 08:39 PM

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BillT, when that letter finishes clawing its way out please share it with us. :)

by FbL on December 28, 2006 09:29 PM

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When Nixon was pardoned by Ford
it left almost all of us floored.
Now both of them are
in front of God's bar --
I bet that the angels aren't bored.

by Timerick on December 29, 2006 12:16 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

BUWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA
CAN.NOT.STOP.LAUGHING.

Jon Carrey... you are *such* an ass. "You deserve it" is the first thing that came to mind- as soon as I picked myself off the floor from laughing so hard.

by AFSister on December 27, 2006 01:14 PM

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I wonder; has Skull and Bones ever *expelled* a member? Or would that make them look like they'd made a mistake by admitting him in the first place?

I mean, even the Masons have (I think) been known on rare occasions to do the demittal.

by Justthisguy on December 27, 2006 06:15 PM

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I missed it live. I was on the road. I need a link to a podcast or rebroadcast or something.

Love the John Kerry photo, it's everywhere, so many bloggers with a finely attuned sense of schadenfreude.

by Maggie on December 27, 2006 08:09 PM

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Hey, I know I haven't posted anything in a bit, but I stumbled across this on MSNBC of all places. This article was pretty damn cool, even though it's really short.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16356220/

by MCart on December 27, 2006 09:23 PM

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MCart! I thought perhaps you'd fallen in a vat of Vista or something!

by John of Argghhh! on December 27, 2006 09:44 PM

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Interesting to see Ethiopia in its historic role of keeper of the peace through military intervention. How unfortunate for the world that in the late 6th century they were forced to leave Yemen and Arabia because of a revolt in the province of Gondor. Let us hope that Ethiopia is able to crush this branch of Al Qaeda.

by JimC on December 27, 2006 10:03 PM

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Thanks, MCart, that story was great. I agree it's a surprise to find something touching and uplifting on MSLSD (as Mark Levin calls it).

by Maggie on December 27, 2006 10:40 PM

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You were great on Hugh Hewitt's!!! All of you!!!
Thanks so much!
Townhall.com has it streaming for those who missed it!

by Flag Gazer on December 28, 2006 03:32 AM

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I just read the article McCart linked.... thank you. That was a great read.

by AFSister on December 28, 2006 01:58 PM

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

You got to love these guys, big time, for just being there...but an exposed and apparently disorganized gun position and no f***ing helments... a career ender for a USA Battery Commander, could this possably be SOP for our Canadian brothers? Best

by Snake Eater on December 26, 2006 02:24 PM

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Hmmm - a comment that seems to have wandered from its home below ;-)

Merry Christmas to all Denizens! Hope no one ate so much that they can't sit at the computer comfortabley ... *grin* Since my internet connection at home is still out, I'm using the one at the office for a while. Cheers, all!

by Barb on December 26, 2006 04:16 PM

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I'm at a wedding tomorrow afternoon, otherwise I'd listen in just to hear The Donovan rumbling over the public airwaves. Best of luck with the live gig, John.

by Damian on December 26, 2006 09:39 PM

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Mebbe I wasn't gonna advertise to have the whole world drop in and listen to me embarrass myself...

Oops.

*off to join Ry in the castle dungeon*

by FbL on December 26, 2006 10:20 PM

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And me thinks someone is taken back by just plain old fashion modesty :)

If you were just filler, John, with all due respect, a lot of folks wouldn't be here :)

'Sides we like you 'cuz you make damn good sense

Something that lately seems to have been lacking in other avenue's......like sanity at my place lately...

Congratz either way!

by BloodSpite on December 27, 2006 10:09 AM

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL! You shoulda let me know yer neff-yew was stranded at DIA, John- I'm only 40 minutes away and they could have stayed here in the swank guest bedroom... I fixed all the holes in the air mattress.

by Neffi on December 25, 2006 12:27 PM

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Merry Christmas to you all. We here at well-ahead-of-you-land are in Recovery Day.

by Trias on December 25, 2006 05:08 PM

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Best Christmas EVER, John! *sigh*
BEST. EVER.

Hope yours was wonderful too, and the same to everyone else around here!

by AFSister on December 25, 2006 09:13 PM

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Merry Christmas to you all! :)

by jimmyb on December 25, 2006 09:31 PM

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We owe the Great Ott so much. Now as to the Feast of the Christ Child, this was on the menu at Chez Engineer today:

Stuffed and rolled tenderloin
Roast carrots
THE best green bean casserole EVER
Horseradish potatoes
Green salad
popovers

Sweet potato cheesecake. We didn't have any pumpkin (how the helk that happened in the Provisioning of the Engineer Larder is Beyond Moi)
so we Made Do with sweet potato instead.
Rich, creamy and velvet textured, it turned out
really well.

And no, I don't use cream of ? soup in making casseroles. I make an honest to goodness bechamel
or other type of sauce to gently simmer the main ingredient.

by Cricket on December 25, 2006 11:51 PM

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

And why wouldn't I want to hang out here...I mean come on...the bar is open...the wood panneling...the deer head...the Vickers machine Gun....the propeller off the Spitfire.....the absolute lack of anyone else to share the bar with.....

On second thought maybe that last one isn't so bad.. :)

by BloodSpite on December 24, 2006 10:25 AM

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Oh, uh, Hi, Bloodspite, Jtg here. Mind if I join ya? Say, whatcha drinking? Think he'll mind if we poke around a bit? I know where he keeps the lathe-and-mill. I betcha we can get the Degtyarev working again.

Lessee, now, where would the chambering reamers be... Oh, no need to measure, fill that glass right up!

by Justthisguy on December 24, 2006 06:57 PM

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Where's Jim? Who's getting my drink?

Merry Christmas!

by Maggie on December 24, 2006 09:05 PM

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What? Huh? Who's Jim? Oh, sorry, get it yerself, nobody here but us chickens. Have fun.

Now, there *must* be a bottle of acetylene around here someplace...

by Justthisguy on December 24, 2006 10:48 PM

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Bloodspite? BLOODSPITE! Wake up, man! Didn't mean to leave you alone like that, but you just sat there at the bar, with the glass... Hello! Dang, where's the coffee-maker...

(thinks, Dare I slap him? Nah, let him drool on the bar.)

by Justthisguy on December 24, 2006 11:02 PM

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Dammit, I seem to be the only one here, and the Interior Guard are all either asleep or ignoring me. Kitties! Uh, Kitties? Hello? Mrow? Hey, don't yawn at me like that!

That makes me feel kinda yawny too, guess I'll curl up behind the bar here, maybe shoulda measured that likker I stole...yawn...

by Justthisguy on December 24, 2006 11:18 PM

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Small flying camera 'Bot (new product of BCR Labs, Inc) keeps an eye on JTG.

by John of Argghhh! on December 25, 2006 08:12 AM

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oh Ow. Did I do this again? Where am I?

Oh.

Hey, I didn't have that much! Somebody put something in my drink! It was a trap!

Maggie?

by Justthisguy on December 25, 2006 09:27 PM

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Sorry JTG

They got me

Right as I was coming out of the mens room. Next thing I know SCHA-Zam!

There she was in nuthin but a T-shirt...uh..yeah..uhm...anyway yea my wife called me away from the computer.....

by BloodSpite on December 26, 2006 09:48 AM

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JTG - I'm just fine. I never overindulge. Everyone knows alcohol impedes performance.
Have some coffee.
Bloodspite - Your wife saved you just in time.

by Maggie on December 26, 2006 11:27 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

mmmmmm... calamari! Break out the turkey fryer! Dam' shame they killed her but I guess she didn't want to get in the boat with the nice men...
OK, this is a test. A pic of my Jeep after the blizzard had (mostly) passed, Thursday morning.

by Neffi on December 23, 2006 02:56 PM

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hmmm- guess I'm *still* trainable, Donovan!

by Neffi on December 23, 2006 02:58 PM

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Virgil Goode - A$$hat!

The Roanoke Times has a very good response.
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/wb/xp-96780

by Maggie on December 23, 2006 03:13 PM

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Neffi - what can I train you to do?

by Maggie on December 23, 2006 03:38 PM

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Maggie, darlin'- my bag of tricks awaits *expansion* in your capable hands...
(PG17C stirs uneasily)

by Neffi on December 23, 2006 04:10 PM

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The Japanese were merely honoring the tradition established by Linnaeus and followed by naturalists ever since.

Ol' J.J. Audubon didn't practice "capture and release" to get those minute details in his paintings and Darwin sure didn't bring a menagerie back with him on the Beagle. Heh. Architeuthis isn't rare by a long shot, just rarely seen.

Yummmmm -- just in time for the Feast of Seven Fishes.

by BillT on December 23, 2006 04:38 PM

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Merry Christmas to those stationed at home and abroad. Your honor and courage are recognized during these times and ourprayers arewith you.
God bless you and your family this holiday season.

Raymond B
www.voteswagon.com

by Raymond B on December 23, 2006 06:37 PM

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Merry Christmas to those stationed at home and abroad. Your honor and courage are recognized during these times and ourprayers arewith you.
God bless you and your family this holiday season.

Raymond B
www.voteswagon.com

by Raymond B on December 23, 2006 06:38 PM

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!

Love you guys and miss you bunches!

by kat-missouri on December 22, 2006 12:25 PM

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We miss you too, Kat!

by John of Argghhh! on December 22, 2006 12:36 PM

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John,

Thanks for the link and I hope you and Beth have a Merry Christmas.

I observed the Schlussel War with a great deal of amusement. She took on you two and Misha and other Beth? Even I wouldn't be crazy enough to do that! :-)

by baldilocks on December 22, 2006 12:53 PM

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Nice to hear the waste of paper has been ended. Perhaps it will slow the kind of activities they engage in.

As for Debbie I'm pleased she is now so marginal she is attracting the KKK types to her site which will greatly limit her.

Two nice Christmas presents for our bloggers. And a Merry Christmas to you all!

by Trias on December 22, 2006 02:11 PM

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Merry Christmas to the Castle! May it entail a feast fit for the kings.

by Sgt Hook on December 22, 2006 11:18 PM

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Merry Christmas to the Castle! May it entail a feast fit for the kings.

by Sgt Hook on December 22, 2006 11:18 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

I am but a ant on the doorstep of Castle Argghhh!

by Alan on December 21, 2006 09:00 AM

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I am but an ant on the doorstep of Castle Argghhh!

by Alan on December 21, 2006 09:00 AM

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See - I can't even post a comment without a spelling mistake or duplication. Jeesh. That is what you get for trying to steal the keys to Uncle Argghhh! car when you are 15.

by Alan on December 21, 2006 09:03 AM

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... and apparently John is that Ant Squasher of Argghhh!

by AFSister on December 21, 2006 09:04 AM

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OK, ok...I am off to lick my wounds and make up for my inadequacies through overloading on office coffee room Christmas cake.

by Alan on December 21, 2006 09:07 AM

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I like ants. They are hardworking. I just don't like them inside my house. They will be either stomped or compassionately redirected. Depends on who discovers them first.

As to the baby losing her toes, uh, what kind of parent would have a pit bull and a ferret? And we wonders, we does, which parent owns which pet? Daddy blames the dog and mom blames the ferret.

by Cricket on December 21, 2006 09:58 AM

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Alan - You're gonna have to let your stuff age a bit longer:
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/research/Exp_Rese_Disc/masca/beer.shtml

Okay, so it wasn't drinkable. But then, neither is Iron City or Fox Head...

by BillT on December 21, 2006 10:01 AM

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neeener. Al's in trouble and I'm not. Neener.

No worries Mr MacLeod. You're still higher on the totem pole than I, and don't get into as much trouble(anyone got an idea how to get Boot waffling outta whites in the laundry?)

by ry on December 21, 2006 12:18 PM

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Oh yesh indeed, we got hammered with the white stuff. 32" in my yard over 24 hours... had a pic to post but the comments don't allow posting a link anymore? Anyhoo, DIA will be closed until noon tomorrow so that should give you an idea...

by Neffi on December 21, 2006 03:17 PM

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Oh, I dunno Crik.
My older brother, the blood relation one, once he got himself un-f'd had himself three kids ubnder the age of five, two monitor lizards(the slightly smaller cousins of the Komodo Dragon), two big ol' dogs(a Newf and a German shephard), a bunch of rats, and a couple of snakes(a python and a couple of biters that I can't remember the breed of). The only one who ever got dinged was me when I went to feed them while he was on vacation. Stupid is as stupid does. Pets have nothing to do with it.

Idjit parents. Can't take their kids away and can't leave the little darlin's with 'em either.

by ry on December 21, 2006 03:22 PM

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Neffi - I was living in Denver in the early 80's when the snow closed the airport for 2-3 days. Luckily, I was at home listening to the radio when they announced it was closed - instead of in the car on the way to Stapleton! I feel for the people trapped there.

FbL - that storm warning was for yesterday/last night, and the winds did cause some more grief for a few areas - but nothing on the scale of last week. By the way - I am still sans power at home (well, except for the generator), and the last update I saw has moved the estimate of restored service from Friday to Saturday or Sunday.
*sigh*
I am officially tired of camping, even in my own house. Then again, I'll admit that what I miss most right now is my cable (which provides TV as well as internet access). How quickly we become spoiled, eh? However - for fun, I hooked up the new Zune to the TV and played my stored Christmas music while watching a slide show of my pictures. *grin*

by Barb on December 21, 2006 06:05 PM

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For snow lovers, check out:

www.canted.com/canted/snow/

Click on small images for 1024x768 size

Enjoy, but don't link. These will be gone after Christmas.

by Natches Largo on December 21, 2006 10:47 PM

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Two of us Jerseyite 'structor pilots were going through the High Altitude Mountain Qual Course in January of '92, learning how to breathe vacuum (above 12,500 without supplemental oxygen). It was only a two-week course, but we got to hang around for an extra four days until the snowplow convoy got from Denver to Eagle County.

We wore a path from the airport at the top of the hill to the Prairie Moon Saloon at the bottom, 'cuz there was no heat in the hangar we were living in and the vending machine ran dry after the first week we were there. We were the only two customers in the place, so the owner let us crash on the padded benches after last call.

Only problem was, he forgot to tell the (female) bartender.

The sheriff got a chuckle out of it, eventually...

by BillT on December 22, 2006 12:07 AM

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Hey Barb, I was there in the early 80's too. I keep wondering if the current mayor will send out the trash trucks to compact 3 feet of snow into 12 inches of solid ice like Mayor Pena did. We were still driving around those ice potholes in May! And people wonder why there are transportation issues at the new Pena airport!

by Punctilious on December 23, 2006 08:51 AM

---

« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

ATLAS - A mighty fine brew, that has graced mine lips. It goes well with a plate full of freshly caught and fried Red Snapper, and Plantains. Pitty that that Trackhead had to deface its beauty.

Uggh - War is Hell!

by Boquisucio on December 20, 2006 12:01 PM

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- That is a beautiful picture of an M-113 (right, grunts?) You should see them in their new dessert tan paint job and the RPG “fence.”
- Pat is being Pat and that is a shame. There was a lot he has said in the past about domestic policy I agreed with, but his national security belief system is as naïve as the peace-nicks that think that if we throw away our nukes, Jupiter will align with Mars and… well, you know the rest.

by Oldloadr on December 20, 2006 01:14 PM

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Oldloadr - Are you going to sing to me?

by Maggie on December 20, 2006 01:35 PM

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Maggie - I can't carry a tune in a bucket, but after a few beers I sometimes think I can... After reading what some "political leaders" are saying I need a few beers.

by Oldloadr on December 20, 2006 01:39 PM

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Oldloadr - Wrong answer. The correct answer is....anything you want Maggie!

by Maggie on December 20, 2006 04:35 PM

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Marty Meehan's grudge against the Swifties stems from losing his chance at a Senate seat -- Kerry's -- if Jean-Fraude had become POTUS.

And, speaking of political reform, Meehan's just one more "Do as I say, not as I do" lib. He ran on a term-limits platform in '92, vowing not to run again after four terms -- he's now in his seventh.

And, speaking of *another* type of reform,
"[a]n unidentified individual operating through the U.S. House of Representatives' internet connection made several favorable edits [to the Wikipedia entry] as well as removing statements declaring Meehan's original campaign platform that included a promise not to run for more than four terms. Meehan's own chief of staff at the time, Matt Vogel, admitted to the press that he oversaw the edits and removal of the section that pointed out Meehan's failure to live up to his promise to step down from office after four terms."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/01/29/meehan_staff_are_said_to_admit_rewriting_data/

In other words, they flushed the standing Wikipedia entry and inserted a propaganda blurb.

Heh. A graphic example of Orwell's dictum that history is written by the winners...

by BillT on December 20, 2006 07:51 PM

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Sorry Maggie, I was caught up in the political nuances ala John Kerry...

by Oldloadr on December 21, 2006 07:48 AM

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Loadr, RRRRRUUUUNNNNNN!

Take the advice of someone too young to be in MAggs' Rotation and hightail it before she gets her hooks into you. Next thing you know we'll be calling you Sugarbottoms or some such and you'll wonder what happened to all of Thursday.

by ry on December 21, 2006 08:52 AM

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ry - thanks! I'm heading for the door! Cover my 6!

by Oldloadr on December 21, 2006 08:54 AM

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The trip to DC went well.

Och! Aye, laddie! And thanks for the email to say, "Hey, I'll be in town!". No, I probably wouldn't have been able to roust my husband out for a drink, but hey...

Ppppphhhhhtttt!!!!

Beth, you have my permission to slap him upside the head.

by Cassandra on December 21, 2006 05:27 PM

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Heh. Every *other* time I've tried there's been something or another... geez, I can't win fer losin'!

by John of Argghhh! on December 21, 2006 07:12 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

BS,
I'd rather see the Marines arrive Terminator-style...

by AFSister on December 19, 2006 01:04 PM

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I remember reading WarDay. If memory serves, it has a little prologue from none other than the senior Senator from Massachusetts "FatBoy" D-Chivas. It really gave me a fright. I lived close enough to Pilgrim nuclear power plant to have sleepless nights.

"Battleships are renamed for Osama bin Laden" That is just too horrible.

by Maggie on December 19, 2006 07:28 PM

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you fake war heroes should worry about the feminization of males occuring in amerika.

just look at television, they are programming the next generations to be submissive to the fem power structure.

And instead of resisting -- you worms are their tools. Hah Hah.

by mullah cimoc on December 19, 2006 08:18 PM

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Did I miss something or am I feeling a draft? The gremlins are showing up it seems.

by BloodSpite on December 19, 2006 08:49 PM

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*sneaks up to mullah and hides his bottle of vodka*

you know how that stuff makes you crazy, mullah. gotta lay off the hard likker, man.

by afsister on December 19, 2006 09:45 PM

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Forgot to mention AF on your terminator thingie

You just wanna see'em nekkid

Of course in my native Georgia Dialect, naked just means you ain't got no clothes

Nekkid means you ain't got no clothes and your up to somethin'!

by BloodSpite on December 19, 2006 11:18 PM

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Cimoc? That's a town southwest of Banja Luka...

Nemojte se bojati, Mullah, želimo vam pomoċi!

("I'm from the gummint, and I'm here to help!")

by BillT on December 20, 2006 01:15 AM

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Ferrigno is serious? That's crazy talk! The Israelis are nuke-armed and self-interested and rational, not crazy.

Oh, Chief Bill, you are the Big Cat of the flame warriors.

by Justthisguy on December 20, 2006 03:38 AM

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I mean, this is Chief Bill!

by Justthisguy on December 20, 2006 04:01 AM

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Whatthehell, I caint put links in comments?

by Justthisguy on December 20, 2006 04:03 AM

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OK, then, http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/bigcat.htm

I mean, that's Chief (Ret) Bill!

by Justthisguy on December 20, 2006 04:08 AM

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Big Cat? Oh, geez -- time to brace for comments from the Kitten Kontingent...

*cranking up the white noise generator and inserting triple-flange hypersponge earplugs into PG-17c's aural orifices -- or should that be aurifices?*

by BillT on December 20, 2006 06:50 AM

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BS-
Well.. of COURSE we want 'em nekkid! Naked and "up to something" is a good combination, no matter if your from Georgia or not.

mmmm Me Love 'Im Big Cat SugarButtons. But... if he should arrive nekkid... we'd have to change that name to Big Cat SugarBOTTOM.
*wink*

by WereKitten on December 20, 2006 08:05 AM

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mmmmm nekkid.........yes.......nekkid.....nekkid sailors!

by Maggie on December 20, 2006 08:41 AM

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Hmmmpf -- I trust your use of the term "SugarBottom" does *not* infer you consider me a candy-a$$...

by BillT on December 20, 2006 10:11 AM

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Sugarbottom? Do I need to update the banner?

by John of Argghhh! on December 20, 2006 10:21 AM

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Banner update? Only if Pam has the Big-Tribble-Wearing-15X-Binos pic ready to go...

by BillT on December 20, 2006 11:38 AM

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*snerk*

I love starting trouble....SugarBottom. btw, I do not consider you a candy-a$$.. but there *is* a peppermint stick very close to that bottom.

*POW SLAP BANG*

OHHHH DANG IT! durn PG17C got me AGAIN! I think that's some sort of record, "who got slapped the most often in 2006 by the PG17C".
*sigh*
maybe it should be a medal, like a Purple Heart or something.

by WereKitten on December 21, 2006 05:32 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

the first round missed??? sun went down an hour earlier, assume ambient temperature drop, assume heat effects on tube, probably coulda used another boresight update. the round didn't miss, the tank didn't miss, the GUNNER missed...

but then he made up for it.

heh, squash head...

(still giggling)

by MajMike on December 18, 2006 08:48 AM

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Maybe he missed on purpose... Let the b******* know they were about to meet Allah...

by Oldloadr on December 18, 2006 01:22 PM

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HESH: Instant Shaped Charge. The round is less likely to richochet like a HEAT, and doesn't pierce like that or a SABOT, and HESH is good for non- vehicles too. What it does is whump the side of the vehicle or building or defensive position something fierce, causing walls to come apart at fault lines and toss lots of stuff around inside the item.

For example, in older tanks, HESH could cause the turret to spald along fault lines, causing not only a BIG thump, but big chunks of steel and stuff to fly around inside the turret. It's also good for hitting a heavily armored vehicle amidship, blowing tracks and wheels all apart and making things come loose in the hydraulics, etc.

Imagine a 5T sledge hammer hitting the side of the house. . .

P.S. I'd always called 'em HE soft-head..

by SangerM on December 18, 2006 02:47 PM

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IIRC, it's a Brit round in concept and it's the Brit usage. We called it HEP. High Explosive Plastic.

by John of Argghhh! on December 18, 2006 03:44 PM

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Funny that, I've always called it HESH, been so long I forgot the term HEP, but then I was only a wanna-be tanker (assigned to an Armor Bn, went to gunneries at Graf as fill-in for crew shortages, otherwise, was a GSR/Redeye/(sometime)Scout guy in both leg and armor units. When I moved to CEWI stuff, I got to be in charge of really cool EW toys (RDF/ECM) from ground AND air, but nothing that actually went boom. That was when I realized it wasn't going to be fun anymore. And they wouldn't let me go be the Scout PSG at 1/37 (Katterbach) 'cause I'd got a bonus. Feh!

by SangerM on December 18, 2006 07:20 PM

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Speaking of 1/37, I remember when that unit had M60A2s! What screwy looking tank that was... Glad I never had to work one of those. . .

by SangerM on December 18, 2006 07:23 PM

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I was a Company FO for the last hurrah of the M60A2s - the January 1981 maneuver-rights ARTEPS. After that they got their M60A3s IIRC.

by John of Argghhh! on December 18, 2006 07:35 PM

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Isn't every day Leak Day at the Pentagon and CIA? It sure seems like it, because every day, somewhere in the world, someone is urinating on our country.

by AFSister on December 18, 2006 09:39 PM

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M60A2 skipped completely over me, never had the oppty (thank goodness).

XM-1s, M60A3s, M60A1s (Rise and Rise/Passive), then back to M1s and M1A1s...

all things considered, i don't regret missing out on that maintenance nightmare.

by MajMike on December 19, 2006 09:00 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

Canadian?

Whats he talkn aboot eh?

by Murray on December 17, 2006 04:09 PM

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D'oh! Major brain cramp. Sorry about that. Too many Canadian blogs read right before yours. *hiding face in embarrassment with one hand while fixing blog with other*

by FbL on December 17, 2006 04:19 PM

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Thank you for your labors, Fuzzy. Actually, today was spent slapping up some content, packing, and heading to the airport to gallivant off to DC, where I am now.

The fruits of a year of study are to be briefed to the Elephants (that would be starry people, vice right-wing politicians) on Tuesday, and tomorrow I will be sitting in on all the other people who've been doing studies for this client this year justify the cash sent their/our way.

All in the hopes they'll send more, of course...

Thus far we've been well received, even if the news hasn't been all that good from the perspective of the topic.

No expectation of the messengers getting shot, anyway. Sniped at, a little, by those who will perceive a threat in the results (though if they're smart, they'll just say "Y'know, they're right, gimme a coupla mil to fix it!") when there really is opportunity.

by John of Argghhh! on December 17, 2006 08:08 PM

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Yes I agree with you, Jules does a very good job at melting Kerry's overblown ego.
I guess the preassure of Jule's mind steam was to high on this day.

Thank you for sharing this story with me !

by Lora loves pictures on December 18, 2006 06:36 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

Kudos to The Rocky Mountain News. They do a remarkable job telling the story of the return home of these fine young service people who have sacrificed all for the rest of us. "No greater love hath any man..."

by JimC on December 16, 2006 12:10 PM

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Anderson is being eulogized here in his home-town of Longmont today. The service begins at 1400 but will be preceded by his body being born along the street in a horse-drawn caisson. Phreaky Phred and his minions have expressed an interest in attending, though no-one knows for sure if the scum will show... the Patriot Guard Riders will definitely be in attendance and I'll be there too.
AAR to follow, with pics.

by Neffi on December 16, 2006 12:21 PM

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Well done, Fuzzy!

by John of Argghhh! on December 16, 2006 12:33 PM

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Thanks, John. I'm just once again reminded of those Valour-IT missed. Two years...

But you'll notice I wrote that two days ago. Gotta keep up on your Denizenne reading. :P

And Neffi, I was hoping you knew about it and would be there. I look forward to hearing your AAR. I'm sure John would be willing to give you a post for it, or you are welcome to take up space at my place. :)

by FbL on December 16, 2006 04:31 PM

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Thanks! Hey, I voted for 'ya everyday.

You had a point about the Lefty blogs, they punch above their weight. I think the Left is better at group play and such. Anyway, I was beat by a chick that always posts panties on her blog - how can I beat that? BVD's? Joe Boxers? Sigh.

by CDR Salamander on December 18, 2006 02:05 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

I delivered The Oregonian when I was a kid. To give you a time frame, the biggest headline I remember is Malcolm X Assassinated. Back then, it was just a "rag", not a liberal, left-wing rag. Oh for the days of Governor Tom McCall and his "don't CALIFORNICATE Oregon" campaign. Alas, life was so much simpler then. Stick to your idiosyncracies, big guy. ML

by Mike Lehnherr on December 15, 2006 09:35 AM

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Idiosyncratic? I wonder how much idio(t) I bring to this idiosyncrisity?
I know the words are similar, but wouldn't ecclectic be more true of the Castle?

by ry on December 15, 2006 12:53 PM

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Hobbits to the fore!

battlefield intel collection and analysis at its finest...

by MajMike on December 15, 2006 01:53 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

I can.

by Maggie on December 14, 2006 09:06 AM

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*sigh*

there's just nothing like a good screw.... especially when dealing with particularly solid wood.

by AFSister on December 14, 2006 09:09 AM

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My sista!

by Maggie on December 14, 2006 09:26 AM

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Soldiers' Angels is going to be worldwide on television next week. Check it out.

by Laurie on December 14, 2006 10:02 AM

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:-(

I was military too! :cry:

by Beth C. on December 14, 2006 05:35 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

ry's rant just proves my point: Eat butter and avoid alkyhol.

heh.

OTOH there is Julia Child who lived to be 92 and still sound of mind. So, butter and wine are good for you.

Double heh.

Ry, I don't understand any chemistry, but I take it that since we have enzymes we can break down what we ingest? And if a substance is toxic, is it because our bodies are not able to digest and metabolize those that are deemed toxic?

And don't bite my head off for asking. I detest the taste of margarine on principle and refuse to use artificial fats because of the nasty mouthfeel they have. Trans fats are not the issue; good taste and digestibility are.

As the Castle Chef, I have a duty to the Denizens to make sure that their food is good and healthy.
That's why John hates the grilled beets.

by Cricket on December 13, 2006 09:51 AM

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Well Ry sure was bucking and kicking there. He even threw in the old alcohol argument. Of course his assumption that Coke contains aspartme is kind of odd. I thought it was only present in diet coke.

Maybe it would have been better to use the word metabolised than digested.

Ry I know you love your margarine melting in the sun experiment but you should try it. That sort of thing happens over here a lot. You just end up with soup not stinky soup, i'm guessing the oxygen doesn't penetrate that much.

by Trias on December 13, 2006 12:00 PM

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Oooo! Trias returns Ry's serve!

[reaches for popcorn]

by John of Argghhh! on December 13, 2006 01:24 PM

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Yo...John,

Apparently, while I was on a small hiatus (I didn't realize how long that had been), my email was deactivated. Just reset it. Could you drop me an email?

Howdy to all the denizens.

by kat-missouri on December 13, 2006 01:44 PM

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John, you want butter or butter flavored trans fat on yer popcorn? I am leaving the choice of beverage up to the Denizens; we're all over 21.

*sashays off to the kitchen to prepare tortilla soup and veg quesadillas*

by Cricket on December 13, 2006 01:52 PM

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Butter!

by John of Argghhh! on December 13, 2006 02:11 PM

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I guess I deserved that. (glares)

Cricket:
"but I take it that since we have enzymes we can break down what we ingest? "
Digestion/metabolization is complicated. Enzymes aid in certain parts of digestion/making bio-available nutrients, but aren't involved in others. Not everything you ingest is digestable(see below where I talk about fibre). If you really want a lot of the details this lady here(http://nutrition.ucdavis.edu/faculty/applegate.html) Dr. Applegate is a good start. She's very approachable(or at least she was when I was at UCD in '98-01).

Toxity is a very broad and complex thing(like Chromium is toxic in one ionic state but necessary in trace levels in another ionic state but above trace is toxic). The only basic thing I can think of is that something is toxic because it causes some biological function to fail/not work properly. That'n not the same thing as arterial plaque. Venoms cause cells to cease funcioning. Arterial plawue is just crud filling up a pipe so less fluid gets thru--which eventually causes your heart to fail from lack of oxygen and exhaustion.

Enzymes for digenstion or other metabolic processes, generally, have nothing to do with a given substances toxity. It's rather a binary situation. It either is or isn't. The enzymes and metabolic processes are your body's means of dealing with toxic substances. Lactic acid is a toxin produced within muscle cells via aerobic resperation(when you're working to hard), but your body has a means of getting rid of it before it causes serious damage.

A common measure of toxity is LD50---lethal dosage 50, meaning the level at which a dose kills 50% of a population.

Digestability is also not really a factor. You need certain fibers, utterly unable to be absorbed by the digestive system, or you'd chronically get the 'chits', dehydrate, and possibly die. Toxity is a result of what it does to a biological system is the simplest way I can say it.

Um, wine is alcohol(laden). Ethanol. That's what makes you all giddy when you drink enough of it. There's research out there that a small amount of ethanol is good for you for various reasons. But drinking to the 'buzz' stage is generally in excess of that(no, that isn't the 'old alcohol' old wives tale. That's fact, Trias. Look at the action of alcohol in the brain---binding within nuerons in particular---and you'll see that it causes oxy debt. You do kill brain cells. It's just that the old wives tale exagerrates the extent greatly.).

"And don't bite my head off for asking." I bit Hans' head off because he told me I was an idiot because he didn't understand my argument. If he remembered his HS chemistry he wouldn't have called me an idiot. So I yelled at him. You're saying that you don't get it and wouldn't mind seeing something in an attempt to explain it(before calling me an idiot). There's a difference, Cricket.

"I detest the taste of margarine on principle and refuse to use artificial fats because of the nasty mouthfeel they have. Trans fats are not the issue; good taste and digestibility are."
Well, we simply have different palates. There are things I would want butter for and things I would rather have margarine for(buttering my toast for toast and soup, like I'm eating right now, for instance). That's why I pointed out the Alton Brown show. He goes into why in his cookie episode and does the explanation for why in good laymans terms. Like with anything, cheap margarine will not taste/perform as well as quality stuff.

I really have a crappy palate according to The Wife. I really can't taste the difference a lot of the time. I like Velveta, and, like the Armorer, have a weak spot for McDonald's. I eat crap but enjoy it immensely.

THe issue over at Al's was whether or not it was public enemy #1 and not taste. YOu're perfectly welcome to shun trans-fats all you want Cricket. I just get ornery when people start a) telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I know way more about the subject than they do b) trying to take things away that I enjoy in the name of 'protecting me from myself' c) getting the science wrong.

"to make sure that their food is good and healthy." Well, then lots of good tasting stuff is out the window. Particularly anything drenched in butter or utilizing cream. There's a max per day allowance for dietary fats, and just about anything that's even remotely tasty exceeds that. Don't be a killjoy or change how you cook Cricket!

"That's why John hates the grilled beets." The war on beets continues. We shall destroy the hated beets. We have always been at war with beets.

"Ry I know you love your margarine melting in the sun experiment but you should try it." Trias, you should try it. Leave it out for a week. Do you know how many ppb it takes for you to even smell the acid---which reminds me I need to put the margarine back in the fridge, brb---resulting from oxidation? How many ppm before it starts to taste bad? If you leave a stick of real butter out it takes more than a day for it to smell rancid. Even if it's a 40C day. Same for wine or beer. It'll take several warm days, but eventually it'll turn to vinegar(acetic acid resulting from oxidation of the ethanol). But the point is: yes, it'll spoil and is subject to the same processes as other dietary fats. Crush up a bunch of palladium or magnesium(I think) and mix it in and it'll happen much quicker for both. It'll also happen a lot faster if you spread it as a thin film on a pan and leave it in the sun. Can't forget kinetics you know(orientation and energy).

All a trans-fat is is a fat that has the position of one of the hydrogens switched across a double bond somewhere in the molecule. That changes the geometry of the molecule and makes it less bulky(making it low density(density being mass/volume) and the products low density lipids).

"Of course his assumption that Coke contains aspartme is kind of odd." I was just trying to think of what it was that people would object to in Coke---not like I know the formula off hand, even if I have a three can a day habit. Caffeine is usually something people go after. Synthetic sweeteners is usually another(cancer!(if taken at kilograms per pound body mass levels---which is what they did with those rats)). So then I went after the carbonic acid/ulcer argument. I just can't see why people think Coke is life threatening.
(end)
THat's it. I need to sleep before I go pick up Jess and go to work tonight. Have fun kicking dirt in my face, y'all.

(glares) Wicked bastid.

by ry on December 13, 2006 02:11 PM

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Head swivels back to Trias.

[Munches buttery popcorn]

by John of Argghhh! on December 13, 2006 02:15 PM

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Hi,Kat!!!!!!

You were missed!

by FbL on December 13, 2006 02:23 PM

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Ry I'm not talking about the wives tale you bring up, i'm talking about the ethanol/alcohol thing.

A WEEK? What lazy arse would leave it for a week. I wonder if the yellow colouring could be bleached out. Ry I know it'll spoil. Palladium and magnesium are not exactly representitive of a non severe evironment. I could make crude oil spoil with the right catalyst although I suppose it smells anyway. I could bubble food grade oxygen through it as well. I bet that would speed things up.

Object to in Coke? Caffeine, food acid, cocaine and sugar, with diet coke having aspartme instead of sugar. You can find pseudo and real science stuff on Coke with all of those on the net. Frankly if Coke and margarine were so dangerous there would be a lot more death by now considering the enormous and widespread consumption of them.

One thing tho Ry, is how much of the conversion is merely the reaction you display. In a real process with organic materials the reaction chemistry is far more complex and so to may the products be. The next question is the degree of post reaction purification which goes on.

by Trias on December 13, 2006 03:06 PM

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Oy...but on the subject of butter v. margerine and state laws, etc...

So..we're poisoning ourselves with junk. Was that a news flash?

I just don't think french fries taste the same without a dose of trans fatty oily, salty, stuff.

by kat-Missouri on December 13, 2006 03:48 PM

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I know Ry will back me on this one: Most soft drinks manufactured in the USA have high fructose corn syrup.

Ry, thanks for the answer. You get an apple fritter with a HUGE glass of milk.

As to fried foods and all the rest of the debate:
You can't raise a family without Burger Thing, Mickey Dee's or the rest of them.

by Cricket on December 13, 2006 04:34 PM

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Head swivels back to Ry.

[Sips from Great Freaking Goblet of Coke, brushes popcorn from shelf above the belt]

by John of Argghhh! on December 13, 2006 05:47 PM

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[grabs great big handful of salty, buttery popcorn from John and stuffs it in mouth, picking up the pieces that fall on shelf positioned slightly higher than John's]

MMmmph...uuhhh don' seh eh problum. [swallowing with giant slurp of 20 oz Coke]

After global warming is the great new ice age. I'm just trying to prepare myself for the hibernation period. LOL

[licks oily, salty flavored stuff from fingers and in between]

by kat-missouri on December 13, 2006 06:36 PM

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Thanks for your vote, John - and the link, Lioness.

by lex on December 13, 2006 07:57 PM

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Dragging the subject back to the great Jihad against Beets -- didja know the evil beet contains insoluble fiber? This is the Not Good stuff vs. the happy soluble fiber you *should* eat. Yet another reason to wipe their tuberous presence from the face of the earth. (Celery has insoluble fiber too. I am willing to include it in the target list but I suspect few will follow me.)

by Bad Cat Robot on December 13, 2006 08:40 PM

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Ry rocks because he teaches me things. That is what I get at Castle Argghhh, too. There is so much crap on the internet and so many parrots that you have to give out the gold stars to thems that deserves them.

Although I am not sure, due to the intervention of a tedious two-dimensional libertarian, whether I have still had confirmed for me the degree to which trans fat clog arteries faster than non-synthetic fats. If I have to swim X to work of Y food, I sure as hell don't want to have to swim 37X to deal with "Y new and improved with trans fats."

by Alan on December 13, 2006 09:58 PM

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Alan, in Ry's post I think he mentioned some fats that went right to the gut. I think those were the ones that caused 'anal leaking.' He can correct me if I am wrong. I took a biology course years and years ago...when I was loading up with pre med classes. The prof pointed out the saturation level of shortening, vs. margarine and butter. Of the three, shortening I think was the most heavily saturated. It is digestible, but
tastes disgusting to me, even in pie crust.

We went on to discuss the importance of fats in the diet, animal and vegetable. I use butter,
will not be caught dead with Shed's Spred or any other fake butter. We use leaf lard from the belly of the pig because it is most like kidney suet...which I have used to make soap. yeah, I am one of those geeks who likes to do things the 'hard way.' Keeps me appreciating life in the 21st century.

I have noticed that when I have given my LD son cod liver oil, he is calm and able to concentrate.

Anyway, my prof also pointed out that eating the real thing wasn't as bad as the fake stuff with the additives and preservatives etc, which can trigger allergies or headaches.

He made a believer out of me. To this day, the main fats I use in cooking, baking and flavoring are butter, olive oil, coconut oil and peanut oil.

by Cricket on December 13, 2006 10:26 PM

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Oh yeah, Cricket, Leaf Lard. Ever make a real English Puddin'?

P.S. Maybe I should try the Cod Liver Oil? Or is it too late for me? Snork!

by Justthisguy on December 13, 2006 11:18 PM

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Butter! Real butter! On popcorn with M&Ms sprinkled on top. Wash it down with REAL Coke from well chilled glass bottles. MMMMM

Anyway, screw transfats...bring back lard.

I've never eaten a beet. Apparently my mother didn't care for them, so they were never on the menu. I was 35 before I tried broccoli.

by Maggie on December 14, 2006 12:22 AM

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"Although I am not sure, due to the intervention of a tedious two-dimensional libertarian, whether I have still had confirmed for me the degree to which trans fat clog arteries faster than non-synthetic fats." ACtually Al, I think you have been given an idea of how much more quickly and to a greater extent tf clog arteries. It's in the article you cited. Unless they cheated(which well, activist scientists do sometimes) you have an idea---about twice as fast as saturated fats (with the various unsat fats causing blockage even slower than saturated fats). "According to a recent study involving some eighty thousand women, for every five-per-cent increase in the amount of saturated fats that a woman consumes, her risk of heart disease increases by seventeen per cent. But only a two-per-cent increase in trans fats will increase her heart-disease risk by ninety-three per cent." That needs to be adjusted for proportions and what not, but 2x as fast is a good enough for arguments sake.

But my main point has been all along that if you eat tasty burned flesh or anything with cream in it you're already causing cardiac damage. If, as is the argument posed by gorthos(which I suspect is the main thrust of it for you as well), that the increased social cost makes it something to consider 86ing why no 86 anything with saturated fats as well since the same argument applies---if only at a slower rate? Has nothing to do with people being stupid or not reading labels and everything to do with the science and being consistent with our ethics in my mind.

Trias, do you see why I have to balance between going hard core in this discusssion? Trying to import chemdraw figures for reactions, talking about all the side reactions and the extent that they occur depending on the conditions at which we are operating under(a shift of a few degrees body temp can cause a major shift for some reactions you know)? I have to balance the need for the layman and the not so layman(I'm not a food science guy.) Herr Low Intesity Conflict's wife works for General Mills as a process engineer. I may have to bug her since she knows TONS more than I on this.).
Particulars you brought up about Coke: well, cocaine hasn't been in there for many decades. The rest? What doesn't apply in that list to orange juice or red bull or coffee? My point is that there's hysteria about it, which you seem to agree with to some degree. When I was still coaching, and I ran with my kids, I drank a 2 2L bottles of Coke a day and had much better cardiohealth than my brother who avoided 'nasty stuff' like that and ate Mongolian bbq and home made potatoe soup(I was about 80 pounds lighter then too). Everything has issues with it. Even soy and pure veganism(UCD published a study about how pure veganism caused a deficiency in micronutrients that really adversly affected children. Paul McCartney got REAL pissed over that one.).
You're really taking the butter/margarine spoilage thing out of its context and its purpose. THe claim I was dealing with at Al's was that it was a virtually indestructable molecule. Which is false. It spoils and is absorbed/digested/metabolized by the body.
Palladium actually would negate the need for harsh conditions, that's what catalysts are for, neh? Enzymes are great catalysts and that's why reactions that occur in the human body can be done without argon atmospheres, 300C temps, high pressure, etc.
I don't know about bubbling Ox thru though. That'd be interesting to try. QUick, grab a cylinder and I'll met you in MElbourne. Then we can try and make the margarine explode. (evil grin)
"One thing tho Ry, is how much of the conversion is merely the reaction you display. In a real process with organic materials the reaction chemistry is far more complex and so to may the products be. The next question is the degree of post reaction purification which goes on" Then you should attack all the text book companies too, mon ami. I know it is hard to accept coming from me, but I am trying to avoid info overload here, Trias.
The side reactions, enantiomer selectivity, chemo-selectivity, yields at conditions, etc..., purification(a monkey can make a molecule but it takes a man to isolate it) is well outside the level of the rest of the audience. You have to tailor your writing to the audience---at least that's what I'm told whenever I write for publications(no, I'm not published and don't waste your time looking).
"Ry I'm not talking about the wives tale you bring up, i'm talking about the ethanol/alcohol thing" you're speaking clear Queen's English but I'm stumped as to what you mean if not the old wives tale. What's your objection to what I'm sayin' then?

"Alan, in Ry's post I think he mentioned some fats that went right to the gut. I think those were the ones that caused 'anal leaking.'" Olestra. Not sure how they classify that bad boy. It's a highly tailored molecule so that it connot be absorbed thru the intestine or stomach. AS far as I know most dietary fats are abosorbable somewhere along the digestive track. I just know that when I go to Denny's and wind up eating my 3 strips of bacon, 3 sausage links, and the 2 of each The Wife doesn't eat I've overpowered my body's ability to absorb it all, with not so great results(but at least I don't waste a bunch of food.). Most fats, I think, are digestible.
The thing with olestra is something that BCR hits on with this"evil beet contains insoluble fiber? This is the Not Good stuff vs. the happy soluble fiber you *should* eat. " (first, a correction. You need both. If all you ate was soluble fibre you'd get the runs and dehydrate. You need your ruffage for proper elimination via number 2(http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/undietfib.html http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/focus/nutrition/facts/lifestylemanagement/fibre.htm). Olestra interferes with the action of the insoluble fibre to cause things to 'clump'. So you get.... well nasty stuff. THere's a critical cut amount below which eating olestra is hunky dory. Above that---volcano.
The point about olestra was that it was meant to avoid ingestion of harmful fats(sat fats and the like) that weren't necessary for body regulation( you need some to generate bile salts and cholesterol in your liver). It just has some side effects. Noble effort. I'm not eating it.

There's stuff that should be wiped out, like beets, but not because they have insoluble fibre cause you need that for bowel movements. BUt still, WAR ON BEETS!!!!!!
"I know Ry will back me on this one: Most soft drinks manufactured in the USA have high fructose corn syrup." (Looks at Coke can, well, pile of cans, on my desk. I get so tired of Courtney looking at my monitor I'm building a wall of Coke cans to form a curtain) Yup.

"He made a believer out of me. To this day, the main fats I use in cooking, baking and flavoring are butter, olive oil, coconut oil and peanut oil." This is the interesting, to me, point. Why are these fats liquids? It has to do with the unsaturation level. The unsaturation makes them bend up and fold all funny. They don't quite form balls but that's a decent analogy. The other fats are more linear or more like tree branches.
While they are better for you they aren't necessarily GOOD for you. Above a minimum requirement for good health all of them are bad for you. Just some more than others. Which is why *some* people want to outlaw fatty foods/'bad fats' altogether while some want to replace fats with things like olestra. Me? I'm no food scold. If you want to eat something then bon appetite--- we'll just come up with statins and stents.
But I much prefer Cricket's approach then some others on the issue of trans-fats/fats in general.
Okay. WHo didn't leave *ME* any Coke?

by ry on December 14, 2006 04:38 AM

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And it's good to have Kat-Mizzou back. We should have a Castle Party forthwith

by ry on December 14, 2006 04:41 AM

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I like Lex's reasoning, have often used similar myself, but it is talking to a wall. We've been saying the same for 3 years now. They don't believe us anymore or just don't care.

We have to accept that the public is war weary and work with that in our strategy. We MUST not abandone Iraq and Afghanistan, but we must deal with the reality that war weariness is upon us and no amount of appealing to reason/compassion will deter it. War of the indirect path time. Time to break out the Book of Bastardy and Dirty Tricks. It isn't fulfilling, but if winning matters it's the best path left to us IMO.

by ry on December 14, 2006 05:22 AM

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Reading Kat-Mizzou's comments over there I realized why I missed her so much over here. She does a much gooder job of articulating the position than I.

by ry on December 14, 2006 05:47 AM

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Ry, we go through about a pound of butter in two months. That is for cooking, baking and bread spread, and that is also for six people. I would rather eat sparingly of the good stuff and ENJOY it than suffer. I also make up a HUGE batch of egg rolls, fried then frozen. We do a LOT of roasting and we cure our own meat because I don't like nitrite salts...flavor versus anything else.

Here is a question for you; since you and I both like Alton Brown you might be able to help me with this one: I do a dry cure and a brine.
The brine carries the salt into the meat by osmosis, and makes it more tender because of the separation of the meat fibers. What about rinsing something that has been brined or dry cured? Will that get the excess salty flavor out?
I don't think it makes that much of a difference.

I also subscribe to the Supreme Geekdom of cooking magazines, Cook's Illustrated...and they haven't answered that question yet. What do you think or know about that?

*off to the Castle Kitchen to put the cookbooks in order of content, then alphbetized according to author*

by Cricket on December 14, 2006 09:14 AM

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Cricket - age-of-sail Navies used a debrining cask. They ate salt-cured meat almost exclusively. They'd haul it from storage and dump it in a cask full of water to soak for 24 hours before cooking.

by John of Argghhh! on December 14, 2006 09:24 AM

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Oh that just sparked a whole bunch more questions which I can just google the answers to, but I do have one that now has me curiosity piqued: How did sail powered ships collect rainwater? Were there barrels or a whole collection system?

by Cricket on December 14, 2006 11:06 AM

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Cricket
The short answer is they didn't. Water was carried in barrels in the hold, where it would become very mature in a few weeks. Thus the usefulness of the rum ration. In emergency, rainwater could be collected via the sails; however the sails could collect salt from seaspray and thus the rainwater collected would tend to be a bit briny. Also, with several hundred crew on a warship, rainwater would not be collected in sufficient/reliable qualities. And rigging the sails to collect water would conflict with rigging the sails for sailing.

Cheers

by J.M. Heinrichs on December 14, 2006 11:53 AM

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Ry- Not sometimes... often. However there's lots of papers on the cloginess of transfats.

So Ry if we just eat the fat on the side of the burned flesh say pork crackling everything is A-OK?

Fair enough Ry but it doesn't stop me being bomardbed with calibres and ranks and other miltospeak which really is another language just like chemospeak.

I was talking about what is discussed out there Ry regardless of the truth of it, and people are still clinging on to hidden cociane in the Coke product. Coke even admitted to having the raw ingredient (the leaf i think) but that cocaine is taken out.

Orange juice doesn't have significant amounts of caffeine, at least here it doesn't. And no more than 4% sucrose, often none considering what people buy these days althoguh it contians quite a lot of natural sugars which aren't necessarily better for you, food acid is more arguable so i'll gloss over than one.

Coffee doesn't contain appreciable amounts of food acid nor sugar unless you add it yourself.

The hysteria is from Coke hate which is probably a mix of corporate mistrust, antiAmericanism and the fact that such a widespread product is bound to have it's fearmongers.

Veganism is not unsafe or unhealthy. It just doesn't taste as good as a juicy bit o mooflesh does.

Name one indestructable molecule and i'll make a liar of you. Catalysts *are* harsh conditions, they don't negate the need, they create the condition as being harsh (for the target).

Exploding marg i think we'll be famous. Or infamous but beggars can't be choosers. Maybe we could make fizzle marg like that fizzling magic gum stuff.

No objection Ry. I talk about stuff but it's not *all* your wrong wrong all wrong Ry.

Olestra is that brand name fat-like stuff banned here right? Cook their chips/crisps whatever you guys call them in it and it goes right through gives the runs too if you munch too much.

Oh yes i forgot about the corn industry over there. I actually prefer the corn syrup versions compared to our sugar ones.

Cricket you can rest assured the modern navy's food is much better than the good ol days. I wonder what the average sailor's sodium levels were in those days.

by Trias on December 15, 2006 05:52 AM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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Hey, I'm not trying to beat Salamander- I'm just trying to beat "Geeky Mom."

Salamander has his own troubles with "Blue Gal." I'm looking for votes for either one of us!

Go Navy!

by Eagle1 on December 12, 2006 08:28 AM

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The Salamander will be *so* pleased that we linked his post twice. In the same post. In completely different contexts.

by John of Argghhh! on December 12, 2006 09:30 AM

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LOL! Sorry, John. I saw your links, but had already read the posts they seemed to reference (I didn't mouse over the links to see where they actually went). Oops!

by FbL on December 12, 2006 09:57 AM

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I don't have anything to share. So Merry Christmas to all.

(``·.¸(``·.¸ ¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
Have
God Blessed Week
«´¨`·.¸¸. Patty .¸¸.·´¨`»
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´ ``·.¸)``·.¸)

by patty on December 12, 2006 10:34 AM

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I don't have anything to share. So Merry Christmas to all.

(``·.¸(``·.¸ ¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
Have
God Blessed Week
«´¨`·.¸¸. Patty .¸¸.·´¨`»
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´ ``·.¸)``·.¸)

by patty on December 12, 2006 10:35 AM

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i was on the Dean's OTHER list...

cross referenced also onto the Commandant's List.

by MajMike on December 12, 2006 03:11 PM

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Honor roll list banned?

Harrison Bergeron.

by Eagle1 on December 12, 2006 09:32 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

---

The single mother story reads to me like it's incomplete. Some other factor is missing.

by Trias on December 11, 2006 08:10 AM

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Trias, let's hope so. 'Cause like John said, I am not impressed. I honestly doubt a 13-year-old is going to see this as anything other than a personal rejection. And if her mother has primary custody, you gotta wonder about the role/impact of her father in her life (I'm guessing it's less than positive, and so she's already been hurt by one parent).

Situations like this are why I am comfortable with the idea that not all of us are "called" to be warriors. None of us are morally obligated to enlist. However, we must find a way to serve and contribute within the limitations or our skills, personal makeup, and outside responsiblities. I get the feeling that in this case it was not a matter of her finding her way to serve, but simply of her having her way and having it now.

by FbL on December 11, 2006 08:22 AM

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Trias - I absolutely hope so. Putting this up is trolling for info from other people in the region who may have more backstory.

by John of Argghhh! on December 11, 2006 08:28 AM

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I am TOTALLY with you on the custody story, John. As much as I'd like to join the military, I have two young sons who mean more to me than pursuing a military career right now. Sounds to me like she was tired of dealing with a teenaged daughter and wanted an easy out. screw that... The more I think about that, the more pissed off I get. That's crap.

by AFSister on December 11, 2006 08:42 AM

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Yeah, there must be something missing in this custody story.

Ms. Tate's primary priority should be fulfilling her parental obligation and responsibility to her daughter, not in chasing some personal dream or ambition.

If this is the complete story, then she is indeed too SELFISH to retain custody of her child, and will create a lifetime of emotional pain for her daughter who will understandably feel rejected by her mother.

by fdcol63 on December 11, 2006 10:24 AM

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There is a great deal to be said for having children see their parents strive to do something important, to "follow a dream," as Ms. Tate says. But this is taking it WAY too far.

by Damian on December 11, 2006 10:37 AM

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I think you all are being rather harsh and too quick to point the narcicistic or 'trailer trash' finger. 'Pappy' Boyington anyone? That man outside of war was a freakin' train wreck, both before and after the war. The only time he didn't screw things up pretty bad was during his time in the Pacific and even then he admitts to being a dangerous alcoholic---read his autobio. Is she any worse than this hallowed hero?

Sometimes the best thing a screwed up parent can do for their child is to just walk away---believe me, my nephew would be in a much better place if his father and my sister were smart enough to do just that---and let someone competant finish the job.

This woman sounds a lot like my sister Teri, but with enough guts and brains to FINALLY get her chit together. I'll give her some respect. It isn't easy when you're pretty messed up to begin with to get your life together---btdt. So cut her some slack. Perfect she isn't, but she's no worse than the drug conviction/drug running, wife beating, people that I know who have gotten in. What she did took some balls even if it is a type of courage you wouldn't normally recognize. You know, that whole parable about letting go of the rock in the river? She lived it.

Moving on, can someone bug SB to see if he's heard from the desultory butterfly lately? Haven't heard much about her in a while. We don't forget Denizens, no we doesn't.

by ry on December 11, 2006 11:34 AM

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I think another piece is missing. All personnel have to have a Family Plan in place; the Armorer knows that better than anyone. Correction: Single parent type personnel. Which means custodial rights in the event of death or disability will be assigned to whom the parent designates it.

I see this as a spin of some kind...that the vile Chimpy MacHitler's GWOT is tearing apart families!

Of course, I haven't read the article; shoot from the mouth, that's me.

I would never give up custody of my children to join the service and she would have to find someone to tend her while she is in boot camp.

It just smacks of being fishy.

I will go read and maybe I will ask for a revision of my comments or not...

by Cricket on December 11, 2006 11:46 AM

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Ry - aside from mixing apples and oranges... okay.

Boyington was a dick. He was a good wartime Marine. The relevance to the issue at hand is...

Can she do well as a sailor? Certainly. She's going to have all the parenting she doesn't want to engage in herself, in an environment actually designed to help her succeed. Again, in re: Boyington... so what?

She *may* be doing the best thing by her child, again, I said "absent more information." That said, *nothing* you have said changes my mind one jot or tittle. I am not impressed.

by John of Argghhh on December 11, 2006 11:50 AM

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KOMO news. Seattle Washington. Need I say more?
The broadcast arm of the Seattle PI, a most liberal fishwrap.

Yeah, its spin and ignernce designed to play on the left's ideological base.

Seattle and the whole Puget Sound area are heavy Navy, Army and Air Force, with a base in Bremerton, McChord AFB and my beloved Fort Lewis.
They should know better, shame on them.

by Cricket on December 11, 2006 11:51 AM

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but i think everyone is missing one crucial point here...

John put up a sweet video of tanks!!

thx

by MajMike on December 11, 2006 12:19 PM

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MajMike,
He may have put up tanks but right now we are supposed to be feeling some pain. I am trying to muster up the requisite feeling of sorrow for this pore mother, but I just can't.

And that makes me even sadder.

by Cricket on December 11, 2006 01:49 PM

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Just knowing the part that was in the KOMO article made me feel the same as you all expressed -- The Mother has a first committment to her daughter, and should not shirk that in order to join the Navy.

Now ... let me drop the OTHER shoe...
Turns out that the KOMO article didn't tell some other key items. (Cricket - you are on target, as usual)
1) In theory Grandma (the Mother's mom) is adopting her grandaughter to allow Mother to do her Navy thing. In reality, she says that she can't really take charge of the girl herself, so guess who gets effectual custody?? Why, the Grandmother's BOYFRIEND!
2) According to an article in the Everett Heraldnet, the youngster would rather her Mom didn't do this:
"I'm OK with it," Anya said. "I don't want her to go."

So, in my book, she's not providing a good environment for her daughter, leaving her in what could be a poor situation. I was against the idea before, this just makes it worse.

by Barb on December 11, 2006 04:12 PM

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Hmmmm. Well, if the poor kid is going to be in for Musical Parenting - I propose Brab and BCR go in for Joint Rotating Custody!

by John of Argghhh! on December 11, 2006 04:16 PM

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Geez - you wouldn't wish US on the poor girl, wouldja? Poor thing - that wouldn't help her one bit ... heh!

by Barb on December 11, 2006 04:35 PM

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heh. My idea of childraising involves teaching the little darlings Making Improvised Devices from Household Appliances, with extra credit for creative use of duct tape. Although I must say Barb-lady and I have as much claim on custody as the grandmother's boyfriend. Sheesh, who comes up with these decisions???

by Bad Cat Robot on December 11, 2006 04:50 PM

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It might be unfair to the boyfriend... but I'm guessing I'd prefer the likely result of your work over the current set-up...

by John of Argghhh! on December 11, 2006 05:31 PM

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She isn't my child, but before I pursued a dream that involved and demanded more of me that a mere child I would wait until that child was in a position to be an adult.

Not only that, the custodial arrangements leave a LOT to be desired, but the Navy isn't holding a gun to her head for this particular arrangement; it is a matter of law that single personnel have a family plan, but that only kicks in in the event of a servicemember's divorce or death of a spouse, in which case it is AFTER the fact.

In this instance the news story left out the juicy tidbit that her daughter can come and live with her after basic and IF her MOS is one that doesn't require her to be rotated in and out of sea duty until said daughter's majority or emancipated adulthood, whichever term applies.

I would like to see if they follow this through to see what happens to the daughter.

I am going to keep silent about the arrangements because in some instances, non family members have been a better situation. I hope I am right in this instance.

by Cricket on December 11, 2006 08:44 PM

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Um, where is the kid's, like, actual Dad? Not a "donor" I hope.

This is in the Pacific Northwest, right?

I just have a feeling about wrong values of coefficients on the "what's good for me", "what's good for my kid", "what's good for the rest of my family", and "what's good for my country" variables in the

"what should I do with my life" equation.

by Justthisguy on December 12, 2006 01:32 AM

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I had a girlfriend once who was already in the Army Reserve but was required to make this same decision. I.e. not a 'family plan' as such, but actually signing over custody.

The legal result is that a minor is guaranteed a guardian if something happens to the service member. It's a protection for the minor. The day to day result was that, her two daughters still lived with her, and were cared for by her.

The Navy situation is a tad different in that pay and allowances will be affected, reducing her ability to provide care day to day, because she's no longer the legal guardian and won't be eligible for certain things.

BLUF though, it's incumbent on the service member to provide guardianship from a RELIABLE source. I would accept Mom, but making it Mom's boyfriend just doesn't cut it in my book.

by Dennis Morehouse on December 12, 2006 01:57 AM

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Apples to oranges? You think so? We have Boyington, serial divorcee and child abandoner, gaming the system to enter flight school despite rules excluding married men (and other transgressions). A guy who is chronically in trouble using the military to bail him out of his personal troubles. Apples and oranges? I don't think so. Different genders but the same breed of cat. One's a saint and the other's a goat because one lived 60 years ago and the others current? THey both ran out on their rather adult and parental responsibilities. So how are they apples and oranges then?

Next, an Army retiree and a G'ma about to retire getting custody. Sounds a lot better than living with a single mom to me, having lived that with all kinds of issues I couldn't handle with nobody around to help with(what's the kid going to do? Go ask mom when mom's working at the college?). Show of hands. Who else went that path? Who else has a sister who is a complete fuck up who shouldn't have kids, and yet has two, that's had the G'ma/their mother do the parenting while the g'ma was working full time? I have both and had to subsidize both with my own hard earned dollars. Anyone else? give me some credit for knowing what the hell I'm talking about with non-standard familial arrangements that tended toward the utterly crappy, 'kay? This isn't perfect but what is the other pathway look like? (Where's Phyllis Schafly with all those statistics about teen girls suffering in single mother households when I need her?)

The Army retiree? Oh yes, we know how terrible Army retirees are at being parents don't we? Drivel. Ad hominem drivel. Dude has grown kids of his own, and since none are listed as being total farq ups he can't be that bad a parent. If you are judging this by the first rule of parenting(is this best for the kids development and future adulthood) this can't be seen as terrible. Utterly non-standard, but not terrible as the kid is going to get more attention and supervision than she would otherwise---which if stats are correct means her chance of following her mother into tenn pregers is now less than a quarter of what it was otherwise. How terrible. Complete disaster. This is worse than adopting a child of no relation even.

This Tate chick understood she's a narcicist and the worst thing for her kid. So she ended the problem by realizing that and getting out of the way instead of buying the 'I can do it all' crap and subjecting her duaghter to the higher costs of the parents selfishness by staying---by joining the Navy instead of going to stripper college or the Bunny Ranch I might add. But hey, it looks like a parent abandoning a child so it must simply be bad, bad, bad. Bollocks.

She's serving her country, overcoming her major faults, and not dooming her kid while doing it. That's something.

by ry on December 12, 2006 02:08 AM

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Is there some kind of personal chord here for you Ry?

by Trias on December 12, 2006 05:10 AM

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I was a child abuse investigator once upon a time. I can promise you that this little girl, being dumped by her mom at at age 13, is going to be majorly screwed up.

Just as her hormones kick in, her mom dumps her for the Navy.

There is absolutely nothing for the mom to be proud of here.

Nothing.

by Beth on December 12, 2006 05:22 AM

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Ry,
I did mention in one response that I deleted was that the family plan offered protection to the minor child, but the arrangements were up to the parent and I was not going to touch it with a ten foot pole.

But the spin on the story is that she has to give up custody, not what the custodial choices were.

Looking at it solely from that POV, and with the demands of the Navy right now, she can wait a few years until the daughter is 18. If she can't wait due to economic circumstances, why not mention that?

I don't normally talk about social situations because I have seen circumstances where the mother was so toxic the children were nuclear.
Far better family to take care of them than the state.

And if either the egg or the sperm donor could not get their act together, the state could either terminate parental rights (that's another hot button I have) and either put the kids in foster care (statistically worse for the children's safety)or adopt them out or work for reunification with another type of family plan.

In this case, the Navy left the choice of custodial arrangement up to the parent and stayed out of anything else. This still puts a burden on someone to be accountable for the child, but to whom?

That is what worries me.

by Cricket on December 12, 2006 06:29 AM

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Ry, I didn't profess to know Boyington's history. Okay, Boyington was a fuck-up. And so you're going to engage in the rhetorical argument of cherry-picking an outre' example, from a completely different cultural era, plop it on the table and say, "See? That justifies everything!"

And it's *still* apples and oranges. One is a pre-enlistment decision on the part of the mother, the other is a mid-career officer in whom much has been invested, in the middle of the war of the century, where the decision-making is held by the Marine Corps.

*I* never brought the Navy into this.

So yeah, Apples and Oranges.

My focus has been on the mother, and was based on the info provided. Some more info has come to light.

Gottit.

You're correct, Ry, this *could* be the absolute best thing to happen to the girl. We're correct, Ry, this *could* be the worst thing to happen to the girl. The truth will undoubtedly fall in the middle.

The mere fact that the boyfriend is an Army retiree with grown children does *not* mean that he isn't Gregory Boyington Jr., does it? Left-handedly tying the Army retiree comment to me is tacky and again, cherry-picking. By the way Ry, I'm a serial divorcee, too. Of course, all divorces are serial unless you live in a jurisdiction where bigamy is legal... ;^)

I'm more interested in the outcome - which I never said was automatically going to be bad. I said I'm not impressed with her decision. I'm still not impressed with her decision. It might be right for these circumstances, but only time will tell. But highlighting it up front? It may be good journalism, it may be a "cool story" but it isn't grounds to pat Tate on the back.

If that comes, it comes maybe ten years from now. And I'll be *far* more likely to pat Anya on the back than I will Ms. Tate.

You forget Ry - SWBBO and I have some actual experience with this situation in a derivative manner, regarding Andy's high school best buddy. The situation is not the same, but has some parallels.

Another reason that I will do any congratulating on the backside, and it will be focused on the daughter, not the mother.

by John of Argghhh! on December 12, 2006 06:36 AM

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I would just like to mention that the article said the enlistee was giving up custody, not putting the child up for adoption. I had a couple of airmen assigned to me during my active duty days who had given up custody of a child to enlist, but they were then allowed to reclaim custody after they completed their basic training, tech school and 5-level upgrade (for most career fields; this take about a year to year and a half).
I’ll bet the Navy has a similar set-up. I’m not saying this was a sound decision on her part, but it is not the total rejection of motherhood as implied in the article…

by Oldloadr on December 12, 2006 09:05 AM

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One thing we're all agreed on... the article sucked.

by John of Argghhh! on December 12, 2006 09:07 AM

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...and no one has yet disagreed that it was a sweet tank video.

so we got that going for us.

which is nice.

by MajMike on December 12, 2006 09:17 AM

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Actually, John I didn't take a swipe at you with the serial divorcee. While I do remember Andy and his bud Angus(?---or is it August, can't remember but I'm near to crashing right now anways, though I do remember some kavetching about getting the guy a computer a few years ago, about the same time you guys were looking for a new car.) basically being a quasi adopted child(of whom you can be proud), I'd forgotten that you'd had more than one other wife than SWWBO. That's a bit of projection me thinks. BUt if you're still tweaked by it I take it back. I'll rake the leaves of Argghhh! to make amends. I don't play that dirty(at least not off the basketball court)

John, it ain't all about you. I wasn't specifically targeting you. Relax. You're still a hundred times the Older Brother my flesh and blood one is(you've only threatened a privvy plack).

And what's with all the French phrases of late?

"Of course, all divorces are serial unless you live in a jurisdiction where bigamy is legal... ;^)" Better check on SWWBO's mood before you smile on that bigamy thing. She looks like she packs a mean right cross and we all know the woman can shoot.

"I was a child abuse investigator once upon a time. I can promise you that this little girl, being dumped by her mom at at age 13, is going to be majorly screwed up.

Just as her hormones kick in, her mom dumps her for the Navy."
SWWBO, the kid is jacked already(I'm sure we both would agree to that at this point. Jacked, but salvagable.). It's now a matter of degrees. Stats are in here favour now. Kids of single parents(guilty) come out neurotic to begin with. We have to(like anyone is going to deny that I'm eccentric at least and neurotic still being kind). The question is how far a destructive path would she go otherwise? Retiree grandfather who can watch her full time. Not a bad arrangement.

And I disagree Beth. There's something to be proud of her. Tate got over herself and got out of the way. That's an example I wish other parents would learn. Like that father who ran out onto the field and attacked the kid who cheap shotted his son. There's something to be said for the media to be shinging that light here.
"Is there some kind of personal chord here for you Ry?"
Trias, if you were any more understated I'd be sending you an Acme Anvil.
Gotta take The Wife to lunch now, and then grab some sleep(finally). We'll see how much butt kicking I take in the interim.
laters

by ry on December 12, 2006 10:13 AM

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Okay, now I'm home.
John, I'm totally capable of such tackiness and bastardy. 'I would never do that to you...' is not something that's true for me in regards to this. We both know that while I'm the guy who stuttered and was fairly shy at dinner with AFSis I'm also capable of being a real asshole too. Simple fact is though that I didn't do what you accuse me of. It really didn't occur to me at the time.

Sorry if it somehow hit a nerve, but I didn't set out to do it nor was it my intention. I'm totally capable of that(particularly now that I'm strung out and sleeping most of the day and working all night---you've got Jess's email somewhere so you can ask) but I didn't do it. I stand by those words as I didn't do them to be personally hurtful to you or specifically targeted at you.

"Oh yes, we know how terrible Army retirees are at being parents don't we?" 'Oh, we all know Jews are money grubbing shylocks, don't we?' Dirty trick? Yes. Meant to jab you? It ain't always about you, Hoss.

Serial divorcee. Didn't cross my mind at the time. That was just Boyington in the context of comparing Boyington to Tate. If you've got issues over it you've got issues over it, and that isn't my fault.

Of course I feel guilty about it, but this time it isn't my fault(unlike the other 999/1000 where it is my fault).

SWWBO: I'm really trying not to cruel here. There's something you've talked about being a real sore spot that handcuffs me when it comes to certain analogies I'd like to use. Maybe in avoiding those I went into areas that were worse. I'm not out to torment you and John over decisions that didn't work out as well as you'd wanted/hoped or decisions you had no control over.
This girl is going to suffer like an older adoptee would(sorry Beth, I know this is a touchy subject). Is that so bad?

Would the Mom be able to send this kid to college on what she's making at the U? Would the children of vets tuition discount kick in if she waited those 5 years like you all are saying?
I'm not the greatest in the world at seeing multiple angles, according to The Wife I actually suck at it, but there's a lot of things you, collectively, aren't looking at such as the financial and future securing. Yeah, there's that emotional and proximal factor----but it sounds like that was already messed up.

If this Tate woman was a HS drop out, was homeschoolng her daughter while going to UW, and other 'life sorting out' I wouldn't be surprised if the G'ma didn't do much of the parenting to begin with. So, at least in my warped view, it isn't like this kid is just now being abandoned by the mom. It's more like the physical component of that abandonement is finally happening.

The end of the drama is over because Tate finally got over herself. That's mega. I'm related to and know quite a few people who never did, and have drug quite a few people down with them(there's a reason why I went to UCD instead of UCLA and didn't have a phone for two years while I was there.). Getting over yourself, following the example set by Ram in the Appanishads and just accepting who you are, is a big deal. That isn't just me. That's the AA talking(and alateen, good organization by the way.).

BUt I didn't do that, John. I could. But not this time.

Now I really must get some sleep so I can pick up Jess in 3 hours.

by ry on December 12, 2006 12:14 PM

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You know, I don't even CARE what Tate did or didn't do pre Navy. What has had me torqued is the way the story was spun about being forced to give up her so called custody.

I am concerned, as any normal parent or person would be about accountability for her daughter's welfare while she is in basic, or out to sea, but the article didn't talk about that.

Heck, if the public has the right to know the nasty Navy is making this pore single mother give up her kid, then maybe a little more digging would
show WHY she had to make this decision, and that she still retains custody until she ETSs. That simple.

Bully for her that she isn't on welfare. Let us hope and pray that the faith the Navy has shown in her is justified and that she can have it all.

Tempest in a teacup.

NEXT!

by Cricket on December 12, 2006 01:22 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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When your awe of things nautical is calmed down, if you can escape adult supervision for a while head west, young man! Springfield Armory museum is well worth a pilgrimage, and check ahead to see when they might have tours of the upstairs storage area- a fee is charged but you WILL enjoy it! S&W recently opened their own museum for those fascinated by that species- but they are open odd hours. Hartford, CT is just down the road. "Samuel Colt: Arms, Art, and Invention,"Samuel Colt: Arms, Art, and Invention, is on view at the Wadsworth Atheneum from September 20 through March 4, 2007. The Atheneum is located at 600 Main Street in Hartford. For more information call (860) 278-2670 or go online to www.wadsworthatheneum.org.
If you can escape for even more time- keep going west to Watervliet where the little green men have a very nice museum to delight lustful artillerymen.

by John S. on December 10, 2006 09:55 AM

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Looks like fun. Get some good pics of weapons and uniforms if you can.
Arditi

by Arditi on December 10, 2006 10:14 AM

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I was in Boston a couple of weeks ago the Saturday and Sunday after Thanksgiving. I was able to visit the USS Constitution (for the second time, it was just as cool), and this time I bought a pen made from wood used in the ship. Yes, I'm a geek, but I think it's incredibly cool.

It's hard to believe people lived on ships like that, and the US Navy was more benign to sailors than the British Admiralty was in that era...

Have fun!

by Jack on December 10, 2006 12:26 PM

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You are so right about that bad service comment. I have been in most of the chains in Boston and you almost have to trip the waiters to get service and if you want anything else you have to specifically ask. They will not notice and they make a point of not looking.

Have you tried the Indian Pudding yet?

by dick on December 10, 2006 01:54 PM

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Just there for the weekend? Too bad you couldn't arrange an extra day and go down to Battleship Cove. It's about 1.5 hours south of Boston, and features many things of a large, nautical, military nature.

by wolfwalker on December 10, 2006 05:55 PM

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John S -- been there, done that, got gigs of pics to prove it.

Wolfwalker - SWWBO was keen on seeing the Constitution, was okay with sitting around while I did the Cassin Young, I'd have come home single and penniless if I'd tried to drag her down to Battleship Cove.

I know how far I can push her. That woulda been too far, and will have to wait for another trip to that part of the country. Not that I don't want to, mind you. And we did strip some stuff off of the ex-Voegelgesang (the Gearing FRAM-II the Mexicans just sank as a reef) for their Gearing-class they've got up there.

Arditi - they won't let you take pics in the museum. I do have some pics of the sailors giving the tours of the Constitution.

Jack, I passed over the pens in favor of the medallion made from her copper sheathing replaced in her last overhaul. The last time I saw her she was dismasted and sitting in the dry dock and you could only walk her main deck. This time was much better.

It's amazing to think that Old Ironsides displaces almost as much as the Cassin Young, a WWII Fletcher-class destroyer...

by John of Argghhh! on December 10, 2006 10:24 PM

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Sounds like you're having fun and that picture certainly captures the old amongst the new as you said.

by Trias on December 11, 2006 01:50 AM

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RE Boston - have you noticed that they drive like maniacs, too? It's the only city I've ever been in where I got honked at for stopping at a RED light!!! What did the guy behind me want me to do, run it so he could, too????

And after a week there, I developed a deep seated hatred for traffic circles that extends to this day.

by karla (threadbndr) on December 11, 2006 10:06 AM

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Karla - we didn't get honked at at a red light, but we did get honked at for stopping at a stop sign - but that was in Lowell.

by John of Argghhh! on December 11, 2006 02:10 PM

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They are *not* traffic circles. They are rotaries.
As far as maniacs........I remember a comedian who summed it up correctly when he said "Did you ever notice that everyone that drives faster than you is a maniac and everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot?" Yes, yes I have!
I just came 67.6 miles from dinner with SWWBO in 59 minutes........through the city.......who's a maniac baby!
Our slogan should be "Boston....not for the faint hearted!"

by Maggie on December 13, 2006 11:13 PM

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« Dismissed, Soldier!

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to. It's also an open trackback, so if (Don Surber uses it this way a lot) someone has a post they're proud of, but it really isn't either Castle kind of stuff, or topical to a particular post, I've basically given blanket permission to use that post for that purpose. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

« Secure this line!

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Iran, and its proxy Syria, are and have been CAUSING the problems we face in Iraq, Israel, and elsewhere in the Middle East.

Engaging in talks with them to "resolve" the problems that THEY have been causing is absolutely ASSININE and makes no sense.

They have been causing these problems because it is their STRATEGY to have us fail, and to create conditions in which THEIR influence and power is increased by our failure and defeat.

How ANYONE believes that they either can, or would, help us achieve our goals and ensure conditions that are mutually beneficial to both sides in this conflict is beyond me.

"Negotiations", "talks", and "dialog" with Iran and Syria will only REWARD their subversive strategy - at a much increased cost to us.

by fdcol63 on December 8, 2006 09:42 AM

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HA!
Those pictures confirm it- our troops really are eating babies in Iraq. I KNEW IT.

by AFSister on December 8, 2006 10:19 AM

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Love the third picture.

by Toluca Nole on December 8, 2006 04:44 PM

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Well, Iran could stabilize Iraq. They would just make them an Iranian province.

Of course, that wouldn't solve the problem we've been trying to fix for the last 3 and a half years. It just changes the names on the (metephorical) uniforms.

by Masked Menace on December 8, 2006 05:28 PM

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I've linked to you here regarding the Ralph Peters article: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2006/12/re-frankly-incensed-unwise-men-bear.html

by Consul-At-Arms on December 8, 2006 06:08 PM

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I want the coloring book too! Note the rather crude depiction of the Type 53(?) suppressed pistol....

by Neffi on December 8, 2006 06:09 PM

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I rather like the idea of ME decided whether or not I want a gun instead of Nancy Pelosi.

by Cricket on December 8, 2006 10:41 PM

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fdcol, and trying to deny them by main force has done what exactly?

Okay, maybe you aren't reading everything I write. I'm pretty wordy and that's understandable.

I'm talking short term and mostly for domestic audience (yes, they benefit a little too. It's unavoidable). We make a deal that gives Iran some of what they want to get what some of what we want. We enjoy a stabilization of Iraq for a few years. We come up with something like the One China, Two Systems agreement. They break it we now have a fait accompli to attack them. We also bolster domestic support for Iraq (which is beginning stumble on toward bugging out).

The other option is invasion of Iran and Syria. Are we ready for that? Could we pull it off? If the answer is no we then we HAVE to try something else to keep the invasion of Iraq turning into 1974.

I want to win too, damnit. I would much rather steam roll Iran into the f'n ground. But I accept the reality of what we're capable of and the neccessity of the political situation which denies us such an option. I'd rather take the short term loss than risk the absolute loss---ala not only Vietnam but Somalia as well (hey, Hillary is running. What would an Obama do? J. F'n Kerry?). I don't like it anymore than you do fd. But it's a damn sight better than watching the public support fall out from underneath and potentially kill the entire global war on terror.
I want to win and this is the best path forward. YOu can hate it, and me, all you want. You don't have to like it. You just have to do it.

by ry on December 8, 2006 11:58 PM

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On the Parker case: There's an 18-page thread about it over on The High Road. I'm about halfway through it; very heavy dense chewy reading, there. It's a shame that the issue has to come up at all. I, too, would like a clear restatement of the 2nd, with words like, "and this time, we really mean it!"

Heck, the Civil War was mostly fought by amateurs. Very *earnest* amateurs. Some say that's why it was so bloody. It definitely decided the issue, though, for better or worse. A lot of people these days don't seem to understand that the ballot doesn't amount to much if not backed up by at least the possibility of the bullet. It was universal access to guns which gave us the age of democracy, dammit! (with all of its evils)

by Justthisguy on December 9, 2006 08:54 PM

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Actually ARGGHHH! is #1 for "touchy-feely liberally retards Democrats".

But PBS is still a close second :-)

by Harvey on December 9, 2006 10:38 PM

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Harvey, I don't think I catch yer meaning, there, exactly. Could you expand and expound a bit?

by Justthisguy on December 9, 2006 11:16 PM

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Harv - hoist on my own petard!

by John of Argghhh! on December 10, 2006 08:56 AM

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ry,

Sorry about the late reply .... I'm not ignoring you! Just been crazy busy at work, and my home computer is disassembled for some home remodeling.

The problem, as I see it, is that we won't have "years" to enjoy a "stable" Iraq from any kind of deal we make with Iran, and I don't think we'd see a similarity between the China-Taiwan situation. And I just don't think anything good will come out of "making a deal" with states like Iran and Syria who see such deals resulting from weaknesses that they will take as license for further aggression and hostility.

In a perfect world, we'd have plenty of time to give the "reformers" and other more moderate, less anti-American/anti-Western/anti-Semitic elements in Iran and Syria to take matters into their own hands so they can revolt and overthrow the mullahs and I'm-A-Mad-Dinner-Jacket THEMSELVES, and solve the problem for us.

But, as always, the primary question is this: "How much time do we really have before Iran goes nuclear?"

As we've seen from countless examples, especially in cases dealing with very closed and authoritarian regimes which have shown their willingness to harshly repress any dissent from their own people, our intelligence gathering capability is limited. More often than not, we under-estimate and misjudge their true capabilities and their true intentions.

However, I'd prefer to err in our assessment on the side of CAUTION, rather than sit by and do nothing while hoping for the best. I'd rather that WE control our own destiny, rather than wait for fate or the generosity of others who have clearly shown their hostility towards us.

Also, we can not act as if we are the ONLY major deciding factor in the equation. And by this, I don't mean that I understand that we must take "multilateral" counsel from others like the UN, the EU, or other Arab states. By this, I mean ISRAEL.

A nuclear Iran under the control of the radical mullahs will force neighboring "moderate" Muslim states to accelerate their own nuke development programs to counter the threat that Iran poses to them. The problem here, of course, is that nuclear proliferation in these relatively unstable Muslim regimes is a very dangerous thing that would very probably lead to possession of nukes by radical Islamist terrorist elements if and when these radical elements seize control from the so-called "moderates".

After all, if they can seize control from the "moderates" in Iraq if the US pulls out prematurely due to our lapse of will, they will know they can do it elsewhere.

However, the greatest danger that I see, one that I've commented on before here at Castle Argghhh and elsewhere, is Israel being forced to deal with Iran on its own, due to the failure of the US and the rest of the "international community" to help resolve the existential threat that a nuclear-armed Iran and its Syrian/Hezbollah/Hamas proxies poses to Israel.

Quite frankly, I think history has shown that Israel can not rely on any state other than the US for assistance with its security. If the Israelis arrive at a point where they realize that they cannot even rely on the US to help resolve the Iranian threat, then the Israelis will be forced to deal with it by themselves.

The odds for another successful Osirak-style attack on Iranian nuclear facilities are pretty much zero due to the distances involved, improved Iranian air defenses, dispersal of numerous sites, and hardening of those sites. The Israelis are good and heroic, but they just don't have the conventional resources to deal with this.

We're foolish if we think we can sit by, risk nothing, and hope that the Israelis will be able to do our dirty work for us because we're too afraid and unwilling to commit ourselves to the task in the hope that we can achieve "short term gain" at their expense by "dealing with" Iran and Syria.

When push comes to shove, an isolated Israel will do what it must to stop Iran: They will most likely be compelled to conduct their own pre-emptive first strike against Iran with their own nukes. My own personal belief is that Israel will know that it will get only ONE chance to achieve any kind of long term strategic advantage from this strike, being fully aware of the likely response from their Arab neighbors and the UN, as well as even the US (especially a Democratically-controlled US), and will expand their targeting to include sites in Syria and perhaps other threatening states. Things could quickly escalate into a very nasty situation from this point, and I don't think "Armageddon" is too far from the mark.

By failing to stop Iran's aggression and nuclear ambitions NOW, and by preventing proliferation elsewhere in the Muslim world, we will allow conditions to develop that will not only pose great risks to US here at home, but we will also allow the existential threat to grow that Iran poses to Israel. I don't think we'd see any "short term" gain ANYWHERE, and even if we did, we'd create LONG TERM consequences that are truly frightening to contemplate as Israel is forced to take matters into their own hands to deal with Iran alone.

The bottom line is that many people will die, no matter what we do. However, which path we follow will determine just how many, just how wide the death and destruction is, and whether they are predominantly civilian or military, and whether the deaths are here in America's streets, or in Iraq, Iran, Israel, Syria, or elsewhere.

by fdcol63 on December 11, 2006 09:30 AM

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No hassles FD.
We're thinking the same types of thoughts, but in anti-parrallels apparently. I'm not talking about this being a long term thing. Look at the 'Band Together or Hang Seperately' thread. Just long enough for the people's opinion to change. That's something measured in months or weeks, but not measured in years.
The China-Taiwan thing was just a for instance. It was to highlight that to get something you have to give something aspect of int'l relations. They aren't just going to come around all of a sudden and decide we're right, and then stop opposing us. Their leadership is convinced to the core they're right and aren't likely to shift without some shiny bauble to entice them to. Making a deal to respect their nuclear power program(a deal we never fully intend to honor) in exchange for them to reign in the militias or look the other way while we annihilate them is that bauble.
Why go the 'Dirty Tricks and Bastardy' route? What else have we got?
Iran is continuing its nuclear program as we speak. So is DPRK. We have nothing to stop them cold with. Osirak type actions are just delaying actions, and delaying actions with serious consequences---nuclear fallout is no laughing matter a