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Lions, and bears, and paper tigers, Oh My!

 I'm not with Jonn Lilyea on this one. I do think we should put ground forces into Poland, and continue things like the exercises in Romania. I would note that NATO forces have more recent and perhaps extensive, combat experience than the Russians, have much better logistics, and would be operating on an internal logistics trail, vice pushing one across hostile territory. And I'll put the USAF up against Russian aviation pretty much any day of the week.

Just because Putin has played this well so far does not mean the Russians are an unstoppable juggernaut facing a completely feckless West. On a troop-for-troop basis. Politician-for-politician, that order of battle is weaker.

This Ain't Hell: NATO wants “show of force” in reaction to events in Ukraine.

8 Comments

I don't know. 1st, we gotta get the boys out of the rock pile, then we take on Ivan, or make like we will. Leaving the guys in the AFG and taking on Ivan would be a bad idea. Man for man, I don't think there's a comparison between Ivan and US, The Brits and Fritz. It might not matter as the Brits and Fritz may not go, and I would want to know what kind of ROE are we're gonna have. If the ROE says everything to firewall, then I'd go for it. If not, then forget it. Frankly, I don't see the feckless bunch in DC doing what is right if it came to blows. And, I'm still not sanguine about the logistics angle.
 

 Okay.  I surrender.  

If this is how we play it, just disestablish the US armed forces, and NATO.  We're just pissing away the money.




 

 

 

 
Conventional wisdom is that the borders of Europe were frozen in place in 1945, and the borders of the Middle East became fixed in the years following World War I. The Cold War is the reason that we hold these beliefs and it has been over for over 20 years. We now know that many of these borders are arbitrary, disguise long standing ethnic and economic disputes, and will probably not stand for another 20 years. Such is life in a chaotic world without a strong super power.
 
John, I understand your frustration and share it. If we can maintain something of a military we might be able to pull things out if we have to. I don't give good odds for that chance, but there is zero chance otherwise. And we may be pissing it away. I hope not.
 
 John, this is the sort of thing we are facing. Insanity such as that gives me little hope for the future of the military, or its proper application by the clowns in the White House and Pentagon.
 
With our nation being manipulated (not led) by such luminaries as Barack Hussein Obama, "Slow Joe" Biden, dimwit Chuck Hagel, and dirty Harry Reid, plus the behind the scenes corruptocrat Valerie Jarret, we really have enough problems of our own creation right here that need to be fixed before we worry about tribal heathens in some $h!thole place of no strategic interest to us.

If our military is allowed to collapse (as we apparently are going to do), I would have protested mightily a few years ago.  Now, however, it seems we are doomed to inevitable national suicide by entitlement takers who will cannibalize the dwindling number of "makers" or we will elect even worse politicians thanks to the low informatioin voter puppets of the left.

'Tis to weep.
 
And some thought I was over-reacting when I wanted to move to New Zealand in 2008 when Obama was elected. LOL I know in many ways it's the same kind of green Blue socialist hell I would have been escaping, but it's pretty remote and sparsely populated and they speak English. But I still worry about earthquakes and unrestrained Chinese aggression.
 
Roosevelt thought he could force Japan out of China by using economic sanctions. The sanctions did hurt Japan's economy, and in response Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and began the Pacific war.

You can intimidate minor powers like Serbia, but major powers fight back. The escalator ladder of every harsher sanctions against Russia leads ultimately to nuclear war. At some point, the US/EU will have to climb down and move on to other things.