John(NTA) got there first, in his cryptic comment on yesterday's post. He was cryptic so you all could still keep working it. Which is good, because that allowed Seza Geoff to chime in with a correct answer.
The clue yesterday was to show the blunt end of a Mark X fencing musket - which I was pretty sure J(NTA) would recognize because he sold it to me some years ago. Bayonet training rifles come in several flavors, depending on how they are to be used - you rarely use actual serviceable rifles as full-contact trainers because it's hard on the rifle. So they tend to be some form of simulacrum of the service rifle, to varying degrees of fidelity. The ones that are going to be used for full-contact training tend to be very robustly (and, if possible, cheaply) built. One of the problems of bayonet training however, is teaching the soldier to "push through." You can have 'em run down a course stabbing straw-filled dummies, but the problem with that approach is... in the real world the enemy rarely stands still like a straw-filled dummy.
[This pic will embiggen.]
So, to train one-on-one, blunted bayonets were used. The problem with that is called "counter-training," where you actually teach bad habits. In this case, you teach the soldier to thrust with the bayonet right up to the point where.... it touched the other guy. And then you stop. A solution for that is the "pogo-stick" fencing musket, where the "bayonet" is a blunted rod that compresses a spring. What we have in evidence for the Whatziss is about the most expensive approach to take to that - making your fencing musket out of a service rifle.
It's really pretty simple. Take a rifle, bore it out so there is a step in the barrel, where it narrows in diameter toward the muzzle. Make a rod to fit that barrel.
Then, simply insert the rod, follow it with a spring, close the bolt, and add that little blued button that started this whole series, and you have a very expensive bayonet trainer.
This is an interesting piece. No Brit military proofs or acceptance marks anywhere - commercial only. All matching numbers. There is no evidence this weapon ever saw service with any Commonwealth armed force. Nor is this kind of fencing musket discussed by Skennerton or the others who have written extensively on Lee-Enfield rifles and accoutrements.
The stock disk says "G. Velho" and is very professionally done. Based on a little research, my working hypothesis is that this rifle was one of the ones provided to the Portuguese corps that fought in France during WWI. There is some evidence to indicate that the Portuguese sent their surviving SMLEs to their colonial forces. There was a Portuguese corvette called Goncalo Velho in the Pacific in the 20's and 30's... my guess is this rifle was part of her kit for training her landing parties. Just a guess at this point.
The clue yesterday was to show the blunt end of a Mark X fencing musket - which I was pretty sure J(NTA) would recognize because he sold it to me some years ago. Bayonet training rifles come in several flavors, depending on how they are to be used - you rarely use actual serviceable rifles as full-contact trainers because it's hard on the rifle. So they tend to be some form of simulacrum of the service rifle, to varying degrees of fidelity. The ones that are going to be used for full-contact training tend to be very robustly (and, if possible, cheaply) built. One of the problems of bayonet training however, is teaching the soldier to "push through." You can have 'em run down a course stabbing straw-filled dummies, but the problem with that approach is... in the real world the enemy rarely stands still like a straw-filled dummy.
So, to train one-on-one, blunted bayonets were used. The problem with that is called "counter-training," where you actually teach bad habits. In this case, you teach the soldier to thrust with the bayonet right up to the point where.... it touched the other guy. And then you stop. A solution for that is the "pogo-stick" fencing musket, where the "bayonet" is a blunted rod that compresses a spring. What we have in evidence for the Whatziss is about the most expensive approach to take to that - making your fencing musket out of a service rifle.
It's really pretty simple. Take a rifle, bore it out so there is a step in the barrel, where it narrows in diameter toward the muzzle. Make a rod to fit that barrel.
Then, simply insert the rod, follow it with a spring, close the bolt, and add that little blued button that started this whole series, and you have a very expensive bayonet trainer.
This is an interesting piece. No Brit military proofs or acceptance marks anywhere - commercial only. All matching numbers. There is no evidence this weapon ever saw service with any Commonwealth armed force. Nor is this kind of fencing musket discussed by Skennerton or the others who have written extensively on Lee-Enfield rifles and accoutrements.
The stock disk says "G. Velho" and is very professionally done. Based on a little research, my working hypothesis is that this rifle was one of the ones provided to the Portuguese corps that fought in France during WWI. There is some evidence to indicate that the Portuguese sent their surviving SMLEs to their colonial forces. There was a Portuguese corvette called Goncalo Velho in the Pacific in the 20's and 30's... my guess is this rifle was part of her kit for training her landing parties. Just a guess at this point.
Again with the bayonets! How many times have i told you about how they effect my fear of intimacy and my kitchenphobia and yet on you go with them damn bayonets. Stick a couple extra magazines in your rucksack and forget the damn things.
No BandAid required.....
Cheers
There are a number of "fencing muskets" made by various countries over the years, and that would be an interesting collecting specialty.
The most recent examples I have seen are the Commie bloc pogo stick types that look like they were orignally made to imitate the Mosin Nagants, but later modified by addition of a AK style "magazine".
The last U.S. examples seem to have been the trapdoors chopped down to M1903 length with padded springy bayonets, and the late WW1 heavy solid wood versions with a padded leather tip.
If anyone knows where to find one of the early full length trapdoor fencing muskets made without the lock assembly, I am looking for one!
RIP Capt.