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Delta Airlines No-Jew Policy (A Rican's Take)

There's a Scheiße-Storm brewing regarding Delta Airline new upcoming policy of barring Jews from its international flights into Saudi Arabia.

Take a good look at the third paragraph of the above letter.  In it, Delta states clearly that it is complying with Saudi law in being an agent of discrimination against Jews.  In other words: Don't blame us, we're just following orders.

Well, that reminds me of Greyhound Bus old policy in Mississippi.  Once upon a time, whenever its buses crossed the state-line into Mississippi, all Blacks were forced to the back of the bus.  In full compliance with Mississippi State Law.  In other words: Don't blame us, we're just following orders.

Well you know, someone should remind Delta that The Civil Rights Act of 1964 has been the law of the land for almost fifty years.

Its full text is: HERE

Section 201(a) of the Act reads:
All persons shall be entitled to a full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the grounds of race, color, RELIGION, or national origin.

Section 201(c)(3) further reads:
For the purposes of this section “commerce” means travel, trade, traffic, commerce, transportation, or communication among the several States,… or between any foreign country…

Last time I checked, Delta is an American-flagged carrier engaging in both interstate and in between U.S. and foreign countries. And as such would be in violation of this, our law of the land.

If the Saudis want to keep their discriminating there's little we can legaly do.  After all, they are a sovereign country.  Delta, on the other hand as a U.S. Corporate Citizen is obliged to comply with the laws of our nation, partnership alliances be dammed.



Boq - interesting article.  Being of Jewish descent, myself, I find it troubling, but not for the reasons you state.  My angst is thath this is just one more step toward te USA's dessertion of Israel. Delta is not refusing to fly Jews, they have simply allowed SAA to join their "club".  Okay - I fly Delta, but I will never fly SAA, even as a linked leg.

On another note - I was the Fire Support Officer to the Fifth Special Forces Group during the first Gulf War.  I was asked more than once about my heritage, and for the good of  the cause, I skirted the issue.  A Marine colonel, on the other hand, was teaching the use of mine plows on the M60 Abrams and told the Saudi/Kuwaiti audience that the plows were provided by Israel.  Dumb a$$.  We literally had to pack up the plows, take them to Riyahd and re-package them in containers marked US Army.  So, there were times when I really wanted to tell those Saudi guys to KMA.  Other times, I only smiled as I dipped my Jewish paw into the shared "rice grab".  If they only knew.  :)  ML
Sounds like Delta should, and quite easily could, divest itself of invovlement with Saudi Arabian Airlines.

I wonder if the House of Saud will tolerate Delta aircraft with female flight crews, while their laws prohibit women from driving cars.

(Yeah, I know, they tolerate USAF female pilots, as long as they don burquas when out in town, buto only becuase they are the ones defending the corpulant corruptocrat muzzies who run the place and own the oil.)

Sorry, Delta, you are dead wrong on this issue. 

Either that, or an early adapter to the heinous demands of Sharia law and jihadi interpretations of tolerance.
although not a Jew, I am also of Jewish descent, and this offends me at the cultural level, but it REALLY offends me at the Constitutional level. Delta Airlines has just tossed the US Constitution in the crapper, and that would be after wiping their corporate tushie with it. They have no problem with the institutional racism of the Saudis, but I have.

Don't fly Delta, for any reason, period. Don't patronize their "partners", either. They are Air France and Alitalia, as well as their regional jets.

Up front on MY blog today, too.

I'll be watching for the lawsuit. I'm sure Delta will be sorry it took on SAA as a partner.
Honest question here: When boarding an international flight, are you required to have all your travel documents in order first?  Like your visa from the country you intend to visit?  If Saudi Arabia won't issue a visa for someone, and there is a flight to Saudi Arabia, wouldn't you be barred from boarding because you don't have the proper paperwork?  And wouldn't that be the case no matter which country you intended to go to?  No visa, no boarding the aircraft?  Am I wrong in my thinking?  I've never flown internationally on anything other than a US passport with a SOFA stamp, and never as a completely independent adult, and not in the past 20+ years.
Note what it says - it's talking about "necessary travel documents", and pointing out that the Saudi Arabian government is refusing to issue them.

If <I>Saudi Arabia</i> won't give Jews <I>visas</i>, Delta is not implicated under the Civil Rights Act and can't do dick-all about it, because Delta is not refusing to do anything based on anyone's religion, even by "just following orders".

(What Miss Ladybug said, basically.)

Has more - amazingly, I seem to have been *too hard on the Saudis* this time.

I'd add more comment, except TWICE now this STUPID GOD DAMN BLOGGING SOFTWARE has eaten my ENTIRE ENTRY because I forgot to put my name in first, and if you "back" after the failed post you lose your contents.

(This is why comment-editing-widgets are bad. Just let people enter text and basic-html. I've never seen a comment here use the otehr features the little tool here has, and they're NOTHING but trouble...)

Thanks for your input Sigi - but I find the "back" function does return you to your previous screen - with text.  Clearly, your mileage varies.

And if you want to hand-jam in html, you need to use the "source" button, by which use you can skip the WYSIWYG editor.
Good discussion, Saudia Arabia is a  Muslim Monarchy. Boq,  could you tell me where the Saudi Visitors' Bureau is located? If I run into a problem, how many Americans are working at the American Embassy? Would it surprise you if I said “none”?  Only  Royal Family members work in the American Embassy. The last clause is the most accurate, “partnership alliance be damned.” If you want to feel that nice warm snuggly relationship between the Saudis and ourselves, this consider  this. I want to go back in time and remember before the development of their oil reserves, and remember this is only the start. Personally, I don't have any respect for them. About that, “partnership alliance, be damned.” It already has been, look up, ARAMCO! R  
"No visa, no boarding the aircraft?"

That is it exactly.  My fellow employees in uniform (They being US Customs and Border Protection Officers) identify any numder of potential passengers to the USA who for many reasons are not welcome in the USA.  When these miscreants are identified, the airline involved is so notified, and the "potential passenger" is denied boarding.

Bottom line is, if you wanna fly to BFE, and BFE requires a visa to tread upon their land:  No visa, no fly!

Snerk  Hadda think about BFE for minnit, La Migra.  Nice one.
BFE is Bascon, France, Europe... right? Huh?

We hanged people at Nuremburg for "...only following orders."

I think I'll engage in a boycott of Delta Airlines.  They won't notice my action, but its all I can do. 

You will be denied boarding on any airline to lots of destinations if you do not have a visa. This tempest in a teapot is getting silly. It is not worthy of any boycott of anybody, except Saudi Arabia. That should be quite easy if you are Jewish.
I really think Delta is getting beat over the head with this when it's really not their decision to make.  Delta doesn't fly to Saudi Arabia according to what I read today.  They are a part of the "SkyTeam", a group of airlines from multiple countries, and the Saudi airline has been admitted to that group. That's what the stink seems to be all about: the Saudi airline that join the SkyTeam.  And, again, if Saudi Arabia refuses to issue the appropriate travel papers to a person, and those papers are required to board a flight there, why is it the fault of the airline (no matter which airline it is)?  Saudi Arabia isn't the only country on the planet that makes decisions about who they do and do not want entering their country.  However backward their decision-making process is about that, it's still their decision to make.
BTW, women don't wear burqas in the KSA, it's abayas!  Kind of like clip vs magazine.  Burqas are the blue covering "popular" in Af'stan.

Another BTW, female military fmembers of the United States no longer have to wear ABAYAS over their uniforms to go down town.

Yet another BTW, the USAF moved most of it's operations from KSA to Qatar and the UAE a few years ago.

One last BTW, I've been to KSA a few times and I can't tell you why anybody would want to go their in the first place.

One last BTW (really), About 1/4 of the parts of the F-16 are made in Israel and yet the Emiratis don't have a problem with that.  As one Emirati Chief told me, "The Jews have never done anything to me or my family or my country, but both the Saudis and the Iranians have stolen land frm the UAE.  Therefore, I would rather kill a Saudi or an Iranian than a Jew." 
 I really think Delta is getting beat over the head with this when it's really not their decision to make.

You cannot possibly be serious.

Delta has chosen to take a stand in favor of one of the most discriminatory, dangerous  - and influential - nations on this planet. The Saudis don't just stick it to the Jews. They also violently oppress and abuse women, and have been the source of much that is wrong in our world today. Just a sampling: Where did the 9/11 hijackers come from? Where is Wahhabism based?

I continue to be appalled that we have handed the Saudis so much of what they need in order to remain so powerful. Make no mistake: They are corrupt on many, many levels. For an American corporation to align with them in even one facet of their corruption is nothing less than criminal.

 When boarding an international flight, are you required to have all your travel documents in order first? Like your visa from the country you intend to visit?

Yes. You have to have your ticket, too. And a passport.

Back to the issue of travel documents: if Delta won't let someone board without the proper travel documents of the country of entry (again, this is the case, no matter the country you wish to travel to), oh, and you ticket and passport (does this actually have to be stated?  I assumed that was a given, pardon me for not spelling it out...).  Delta is one of 13 airlines that are current members of the SkyTeam.  From what I read yesterday, those member airlines vote on whether or not to admit a new member.  Nowhere have I seen how the vote went for Saudi Arabia Airlines.  Bottom line, Delta cannot bear sole responsibility for the outcome of that vote.  Do I want to travel to Saudi Arabia? Not in a million years.  Do I think they are trustworthy?  Not really - I think they like to play both sides of the fence.  Have I had issues with Delta in the past?  Maybe - I used to fly a lot for work.  But I still can't get all worked up about this situation.  No travel papers, no boarding the flight.  Would be the same for someone traveling to most anywhere else in the world.  That Saudi Arabia discriminates in who it issues travel papers to?  Stop the presses!
 I think they like to play both sides of the fence.

Seriously? Is this from a fortune cookie?

PS... yummy... what's in your forutne cookie?
LB, the problem here isn't Delta keeping Jews off of planes.  We know that practically speaking, that isn't going to happen.  The Saud's require American visitors to have visas and they don't encourage tourism from the States.  We know that having an Israeli passport or a passport with Israeli stamps can keep you out of that country (as well as other Gulf states).  Delta isn't going to put Gunter & Wilhelm on the counter asking for "your papers please".

However, Delta is making a statement by forming a partnership with the official airline of a  country that not only discriminates against Jews, but would, if possible assist with exterminating Israel.

This is like boycotting GE for doing business with Iran.

This is like boycotting Shell back in the day for doing business in South Africa.

Delta took a calculated risk for money.  I believe they deserve to be whacked on the head.  People who want their displeasure noted are going to boycott Delta.  People who want to draw your attention to their cause are going to use over the top headlines.

I am going to boycott Delta.....what is that worth?  Nothing, I am a Southwest girl.  I am going to voice my displeasure......what is that worth?  Quite a bit when it is joined to so many others through social media. 
Delta is making a statement by forming a partnership with the official airline of a country that not only discriminates against Jews, but would, if possible assist with exterminating Israel. 

Exactly. In fact, in their state-sponsored schools on U.S. territory - for instance, at the American Saudi Academy out D.C. way  - the maps in children's geography classes do not show Israel. It does not exist. They teach young children it is okay to kill Jews.

I do not view this as just another case of discrimination, diversity in real life, cultural differences, yadda yadda. Saudi Arabia actively wishes and aims to obliterate not just Israel, but also Jews in general. This is a country that foments and supports aggression against the West. They also have put their fantasies into action.

Can't get worked up about the situation? Really?

I, too, shall join the boycott.

I'm with Maggie and Susan.... but it is very hard for me to boycott Delta.  I'm in Cincinnati, where Delta runs off most of the other airlines.
SKK, What gets me is this,*supposedly* Israel and the Jews do not exist. For the sake of discussion, if this is true, I have a few questions. Where is the fruit for the Saudis actually grown and shipped from? Where are the parts for their F-16's made and shipped from? When the Saudi King was sick, where did he go, to a Saudi hospital? The team of doctors were all Jewish. Those overflights over the Kingdom, the Saudi Military was grounded and the brass was at the "Camel Races". Many strange questions, but if that first presupposition were true, then all of that stuff, they're pulling out of their........tails. (*Dang Rulez!!*)  
Sorry, Grumpy, the Saudis have no F-16s.  They have 2 versions of the F-15.  They wanted the F-16 E/F, Block 60 but the Emiratis vetoed the deal.
Grumpy, the Saudis grow dates. Tons and tons of....dates. But virtually everything else they have that is good comes from somewhere else. They couldn't even find their own wealth. British geologists found their oil reserves, and the Brit and American geologists and engineers told them how to pull it out of the ground. Yes, they sent their enfeebled king (read, familial warlord) to Jewish doctors. We gave them their F-15s and brought their pilots over here and taught them how to fly them. Their former ambassador, Bandar bin Sultan, was one such pilot. I used to write about the Saudis when I was an ink stained wretch in D.C., and bin Sultan offered to take me for a check ride. After he hadnt flown in... gosh...who knows how many years. Only one of multiple examples of them pulling stuff out from their [Rulez Dangification]. 
There are many countries that need a visa to travel to the United States. No can't get on the plane. If you have an infectious decease, you can't get on the plane. If you're on the watch better not get on the plane.

The Land of the Eternal Thirst has their rules, we have ours. Delta Marketing Dept made big mistake. The wording of the letter was poor. The only way to solve this problem is to drill more and hope Chavez croaks.

The equipment the Saudis have was bought not given. They are a very big customer. They also don't get top of the line stuff....look down radars and like that.

Any  company doing business in the Middle East has to abide by their rules, just like they do in China, India and France. How is this a surprise?
NO, Delta did NOT "form an agreement" with Saudi Arabia. I do wish people would read more carefully.

Delta is one member of an international consortium of airlines, and the group voted to include the Saudi airline. Mmm'kay?

@Oldloadr, I stand corrected, F-15.

@SKK, The Saudis ought to eat more of those dates, with a generous amount of water. People would say "They are full of ---------dates, for a short time."

@Fish, Wrong! They did steal all of the oil technology, they nationalized it after all of the land and mineral rights, including the oil rights were bought. and paid for with documents. The British/American  Alliance found, built the wells and oil infrastructure for shipping the oil worldwide. Everything they claim to own, was gained by the fruit of theft. The Eisenhower Administration bought a large tract of land to build an air base, after all of the base and buildings were completed and operational, things started to change. The King started to make moves toward nationalization of that base. Eisenhower, personally called the King. He simply said, "Any attempt to nationalize that base, during my administration, will be construed as an act of war. This base is sovereign territory of the United States of America." If Congress wants to give the Saudis that base, that is their choice, but not the King's choice.

@Casey, "Mmmm"kay?" *No!* They do not need to "form an agreement" or an "international consortium of airlines". All they need to do is support it by their actions and in my view, they are wrong.