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Bayonets and Barbecue...

...not really an accurate headline, but that would be a good name for a rock band. First up, the bayonets - and we'll start with a reverse whatziss - i.e., one where I have no clue but I'm betting you (especially Neffi) do.  Here we see, perched on an M1 Garand, a bayonet that to all intents and purposes looks like it should be perched on an M1 - one of the shorter bayonets made for WWII in response to requests from the Infantry School at Fort Benning - and this a later one, new-made to the standard vice a cut-down rework - as evidenced by the fuller not extending all the way to the tip.  It bears the AFH makers mark, fits like it should.... except...  the mounting ring is huge. 

 It doesn't fit any of the riot shotguns I'm aware of and the ring and crossguard look like they were made that way - if not, the weld job of the new ring is very well done.  It could well be a foreign modification.  It came with a bunch of bayonets I bought in bulk (cheep) some time ago - and isn't mentioned in my references.

Next up is in response to MikeD's request from yesterday.  This is the bayonet that tasted the Armorer's blood and made him #1 in Google for "I bayoneted myself today." 

[This pic embiggens]

Now on to barbecue, sorta - and mostly because I'm using a rotisserie to roast QM after his redistributionist comment of yesterday.  Oh, and Neffi?  That rifle you were positing might be a Vz-24 was a CE 41 (a Mauser made by JP Sauer and Son in 1941 for those to whom that was gibberish) - but the rifle the Most Famous Bayonet In Google is mounted on *is* a rampant lion Vz-24.

Rampant Lion - that sounds like a NATO exercise.  Or a good name for a rock band...

28 Comments

Try the large-ring Garand bayo on your BM59... ;- )
 

  Could it perhaps be designed to go over a weapon with a grenade adapter?
 
Make the ring a tad bigger and you could mount it on that piece out in the front yard.  Sure, it'll be hard to make a stabbing motion, but I'm willing to bet you could entice at least one zombie to impale himself on it when the Apocalypse comes.
 
 You can buy bayonets in bulk? Who knew?
 
Have you tried that large ring on an M-14/M-1A?  Sure looks like an early mod that may have morphed into the M-6.
 
Does it fit over the flash hider on a sniper garand?

Does it fit on a jungle carbine? (Yes, I know, it wouldn't BELONG there, but how cool would it be?)
 
With a little duct tape the mystery bayonet will fit any gun in the Arsenal!

I vote for it being a BM-59 variation of some sort.
 
Trench gun?  The big ring goes over the magazine tube, the lug is also on the magtube.
 
Neffi - methinks you are probably correct.  I'll see this evening.
 
When the Italians adopted the BM59 they aquired the tooling for bayonets from an American contractor who had made the Garand bayonets during the WWII.
Speculation- vice hard knowledge- in the bayonet collecting world is that they also aquired a quantity of  finished bayonets never delivered to the gummint due to the end of the war or whatever parts and blades were available in an unfinished state.
These were then modified or completed with a new crossguard to fit the BM59 until manufacture of entirely new Italian bayonets came up to speed...
All the (few) examples I've seen had blades made by American Fork and Hoe; if AFH was the source of the tooling perhaps the bayonets/components were part of a package deal.
 
Could be a model 1942 made for the UK for use on the No 4 Enfield rifle as we were suppling them under the Lend Lease program.
Spiff
 
Greetings:

More with the bayonets ??? How many time do I have to explain to you that I do not like even the mention of bayonets. You are dredging up all the PTSD from my childhood in the Bronx. My kitchenphobia and fear of intimacy meters are now pegged. Even back in Basic Training, when the Drill Sergeant  would call out, "What's the purpose of the bayonet?" expecting a "To kill !!!" response, I would think to myself, "Wouldn't it be a tad easier just to bring a lot more ammo ???" And a lot less intrusive also ??? 
 
You would BBQ old, tough and stringy QM? Moi?

LOL!
 
Hmmm my post on the origins of that there bayonet seems to have been caught up in the interwebs somewhere!
BTW, my speculation concerning the VZ24-ish rifle stemmed from the fact the bayonet mounted on it has a muzzle ring... meaning it is *not* a M84/98TIII, the korrect bayonet for a Heer-issued K98K.
Nor is that a bodak 24 on your VZ24, its a humble Yugo M48...
Harrumph grumble mutter
 
Not very reasonable, but maybe a BAR?  Been so long I can't remember if it had a lug but it did have a nice big round flash suppressor/muzzle break (?) on the pointy end.
Phil
 
Clearly, Neffi, to avoid offending your very tender sensibilities regarding bayonets (an admitted weakness in my repertoire, along, apparently, with rifle grenades) you should load up a box of appropriate extras from your vast stash and come visit and you can be in charge of dressing the bayonet holders in a fashion not so damaging to your sense of right and wrong.

11B40 - man up, dude.  ;^ )
 
Sorry for tyhe mutiple post.  Kept getting a 404 and resubmitting.  So sorry [Don't worry about multiples. The gnomes come by and scrub 'em periodically. It is virtually *never* the fault of the submitter -the Armorer]
 
Hah! *Now* I see yer perfidy! Nice try...
When the Italians adopted the BM59 as their new MBR they aquired the tooling to make the bayonets from one of the US contractors that had manufactured Garand bayonets during WWII, the only difference being a redesigned crossguard with larger muzzle ring.
Speculation- vice hard knowledge- in the bayonet collecting fraternity is the Italians aquired at that time a stock of finished Garand bayonets and/or components from which they produced these hybrids with the new crossguard/muzzle ring until production of newly-made Italian bayonets came up to speed.
All the (few) I've personally handled have had American Fork and Hoe blades; the tooling may well have been aquired from AFH along with an inventory of blades and parts...
 
Oh, now you're just being repetitive (yer other comment got bailed out).
 
Repetitive? Sez who?!
 
Dang, that didn't work out as intended.
Sigh
 
With what he's carrying, me thinks that Massa John wouldn't want THAT WAR either.
 
I'd like to read that edition of Collier's though.  The author list is certainly intriguing.
 
The BAR as adopted did not take a bayonet.  Reportedly Winchester made up about 10 or so with bayonet lugs and a variation of the M1917 Enfield bayonet to fit.  These were the same general concept as the mystery blade that started this post- basically the standard parent bayonet, but with a huge muzzle ring.  The BAR trials bayonets had the crossguard finished in the white, and there were no markings at all on the blade.

WIser heads prevailed and decided that humping around an 18 pound rifle and a bunch of ammo was a sufficient load for a soldier and that a bayonet was not needed. 

Obviously if a bayonet were needed, John M. Browning would have included provisions for one!
 
except... the mounting ring is huge.

As it should be. You have a rare bit of kit, there -- USMC-issue, for mounting on the barrel of an M1919...

 
Johnson? Probably not. Could it have been meant for a finial for a guidon pole?
 
 In the last picture, is that a 1861 Springfield .58 that I spy, next to what looks like a 1863 Enfield 3-Band .577? My favorite weapons, difficult to reload quickly, short range, clouds of "shoot me" smoke, but if you ever hit something with one of their Minié balls...
 

I'm just spitballin here.
Did the sniper/sharpshooter (C or D) version have a muzzle device it might slip over?