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Vietnam War Wrong Made Right

Albeit a bit late for General Lavelle.
Lavelle Posthumously Nominated to General

The Department of Defense announced today that retired Air Force Major General John D. Lavelle has been nominated posthumously by the President for advancement on the retired rolls to the rank of General. This follows an Air Force Board for Correction of Military Records decision and recommendations from the Secretary of Defense and Secretary of the Air Force.

In April 1972, Lavelle was removed from command as a result of allegations that he ordered unauthorized bombing missions into North Vietnam, and that he authorized the falsification of reports to conceal the missions. Lavelle was retired in the grade of major general, two grades lower than the last grade he served on active duty. Lavelle died in 1979.

In 2007, newly released and declassified information resulted in evidence that Lavelle was authorized by President Richard Nixon to conduct the bombing missions. Further, the Air Force Board for Correction of Military Records found no evidence Lavelle caused, either directly or indirectly, the falsification of records, or that he was even aware of their existence. Once he learned of the reports, Lavelle took action to ensure the practice was discontinued.

In light of the new information, a request was made to the Air Force Board for Correction of Military Records for reinstatement to the grade of general, Lavelle's last grade while on active duty.

The evidence presented clearly corrected the historical record and warranted a reassessment of Lavelle's retired grade.
I remember this, vaguely.  It was a topic of discussion amongst the Auld Soldier and his contemporaries.  One that at times was heated.  The story is a complex one and the Wikipedia entry on General Lavelle is pretty decent, if arguably full of a lot of what amounts to plagiarism masquerading under the fig leaf of a citation. 

So, why do I bring this up?   It all revolves around Rules of Engagement and the political management of any war that is not an existential war.  Existential war?  Whazzat?  For us, the Revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, possibly WWI, and certainly WWII were wars where we firmly believe our national exsistence were at stake, and we fought them as such.  The other wars we've fought have been wars of choice, in one form or another.  You can argue WWI both ways, though I, in the end, would come down to a finding of it was a war of choice that most of the people fighting it thought was a war for existence, though the top political leadership in the US, President Wilson, may have seen it more as an opportunity to remake the US into a state more amenable to his preferred manner of governance.  Yeah, weaselly. 

Mind you - that characterization oft-times only applies to one side in a conflict.  Our Revolution and the War of 1812 were not existential wars for the British Empire.  Both were, in fact, distractions to them from greater concerns- and were conducted accordingly, good thing for us.  The Indian Wars were optional for us, existential for the native americans.  The Korean War was existential for South and North Korea, but not for any of the other players.  One of the problems inherent in that kind of war is exactly what we've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Both wars, as conducted, are wars of choice for us, but not for the people who live there - for them, it's existential, which allows, encourages, perhaps even demands that they fight in ways we find bewilderingly brutal, while we tie our hands with political constraints.  Just as we were pretty brutal fighting the Civil War and World War II.

In the discussion of ROE in Afghanistan of late, there are parallels, ghosts, of Vietnam.  I'm not making an Afghanistan=Vietnam argument - the premises for both conflicts are as different as their structural components are different.  But that doesn't mean that there aren't similarities in some of the political realities.

John Correl,  in an article in Air Force Magazine that fuels a lot of the Wiki entry observed:

The rules on what pilots were allowed and not allowed to do were called Rules of Engagement. The rules were changed often and were not transmitted in a neat list. They consisted of a compilation of wires, messages, and directives.

"We have a saying we used in Vietnam, that we finally found out why there are two crew members in the F-4," Lavelle said later. "One is to fly the airplane and one is to carry the briefcase full of the rules of engagement."

Hey, OIF/OEF vets, does that sound familiar?  If not - how about this, in regards to what's been happening regarding ROE of late, also from Correl's article in Air Force Magazine:

Lavelle said he got another cue to relax the rules of engagement from a conference in Honolulu in January 1972. He did not attend himself, but his vice commander, Maj. Gen. Winton W. Marshall, did. Lavelle said Marshall told him that Vogt, representing the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the meeting, said that “field commanders were, in the opinion of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not nearly as aggressive as they should have been.” At the time, the JCS Chairman was Adm. Thomas H. Moorer.

In a written statement submitted to the Senate, Lavelle said that Marshall reported that Vogt “indicated” that “field commanders had not been flexible enough in the use of existing authorities” and that “JCS would not question our aiming points (targets) on protective reaction strikes.”

Heh.  At least General McChrystal got to retire in grade. 




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15 Comments

General McChrystal didn't bomb Iran.

 
Nor was he authorized to do so by the Commander in Chief.

So your point is...?
 
Oh I'm sure there are contingencies about what is permissable and what is not about securing the borders of Iran both from Irag and Afghanistan...hot pursuit and all that. Iran has American blood on their hands and Iran has been financing and arming in both other countries. We have similar rules for Syria.

My comment was a snerk...and McChrystal didn't report directly to the Community Organizer.
 
I clearly don't understand Steve - what's your question? 
 
That's suggestive of bad things about Nixon and the process of military law.

Yes existential wars are fought harder but the key is not the existence of the group/nation but rather the individualised existance.  Because ultimately survival is selfish.  How much that ties into the Nation depends on patriotism and what the people value in it's existence.

Didn't Sun Tzu suggest long wars are not a good idea due to polics and people's weariness.  I see Afghanistan much like that.  We see all sorts of rubbish about ROE and suspicions soldiers are being bad.  I see this as a manifestation of the stress between the sides that want to win and want to cut and run.  In time, as I suppose the Taliban et al hope, the political will to remain involved will expire.  Indeeed we already have a date.
 
One more nail in the Nixon administration coffin.
 
Neither did General Lavelle, Fishmugger.  The authorization came to him via the chain of command, but it did originate in the White House.  Nixon found it politically expedient to deny it, however, and the General took the bullet and went to his grave under a cloud.
 
Oh, yeah. Among Wilson's many crimes, he "dis-integrated" the USN. Up until his time, there were guys of sub-Saharan ancestry in the USN with ratings other than Steward.

Had he not gotten us into that war, there was a good chance those crazy Euros would have fought each other to exhaustion and we would not have had to suffer neither Bolsheviks nor Nazis.

Of course, had not Henry Wilson gotten the Brits into that war,  and had not that Serbian doodah shot the Archduke...

No, really, in spite of what everybody said at the time about how modern times and the interconnectedness of commerce precluded war, it does seem that entirely too many people were just spoiling for a fight at the time.
 
Oh, this is also being discussed over at Cap'n Lex's place.
 
So, *koff* why dincha put in a link?
 
Because I thought evverbody who hangs out here also reads his site, and vice versa. I probably thought wrongly, there.  I mean, I also read the site of that gal in Indiana whose name may not be mentioned here. Really, John, I think you could get along with her roommate, at least, what with her affection for weird old gizmos, and ham  licence,  and all.
 
It's rather ironic, to read this thread and to have lived through it. There was a rather interesting incident, that happened during the Presidential Campaigns during the 1960 Elections. The two men running were John F. Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon. Now, there is a news conference with the out going President Dwight D. Eisenhower, the question is raised, "What do you think Richard Nixon will bring to this Country?" Eisenhower looks up into the thousand mile stare, just for a moment. He looks back and answers, "Give me a week and just maybe, I can think of something."  Take a moment, take a look at the backgrounds of both Eisenhower and Nixon. Eisenhower, was a West Point Graduate, with the whole Military Ethic. Nixon, on the other hand, was a life-long Quaker Pacifist, who would not even join the Boy Scouts. Now, Nixon had no problem in fighting the War in Viet Nam, as long his life wasn't on the line. Tell me, Does history repeat itself? Hmm. 

There is  a certain unnamed site with purported documents of questionable value. I have been asked, "Grumpy, have you gone there or even thought about it?" My reply, "No, there is nothing there that interests me. My computer is way too important to me, I figure it is a virus-malware hatchery. I stay away from it and that is my suggestion to everybody."
 
Grumpy, not sure what you mean about Nixon - he volunteered for service, despite being eligible for an exemption, and served in the Pacific, albeit not in combat.  And anyway, regarding Vietnam, he was the one who got us out, atfer all.  The fact that it turned out as bad as it did wasn't his fault - the Dems in Congress cut the legs out from under the South Vietnamese in violation of our treaty obligations.

Now, you want to discuss a fraud, Lyndon Johnson was likewise in the service, never saw combat, but was awarded a Silver Star by MacArthur for a combat action he wasn't in.  And it was Johnson that expanded JFK's initial involvement in Vietnam.

So I won't defend Nixon, but I just think when you slam a person it ought to be based onwhat he did or did not do.
 
Remember the story that Saburo Sakai almost got Lyndon? It seems there were two airplanes, one with Lyndon in it, and the other without. Petty Officer Sakai randomly picked the non-Lyndoniferous airplane. What a shame.
 
@Steve Skubina, you do your homework from "Wikipedia", I see. Did you happen to notice, both Johnson and Nixon were required to get a 'Special Letter' to enter the Military. They both came from SECNAV James Forrestal, without it, they could not enter the Navy. This 'Special Letter' is not a 'Red Flag', but rather a 'Black Flag', meaning come to a dead stop. It also causes one of those, "What the... moments!"

Your point about LBJ and Silver Star, I just might agree with you, that LBJ didn't earn it and it's political. But carefully, we need to ask, is it actually 'fraud'? Now, as we put on our HAZMAT suits, and start going through 'Today's Politicians' Records' just to see if we see any copies of this same wrong behavior. You better grab breathing apparatus, there's a real stench from both sides, and both present and past politicians. What a mess!

Let's take a good look at your first paragraph of your reply. You're right, "He volunteered for service, despite being eligible for an exemption...".  But he could only serve under a letter of permission from SECNAV James Forrestal.  This letter was required to be maintained in his records for the duration of his service. This was not an open letter. I do not know of the contents of that letter.

The last little issue was not the Democrats in Congress or Viet Nam. It was actually about the then President, using Powers of the Office of the President, to bring dishonor to that same Office. This means a person can't commit  a felony, State or Federal, then use The Powers of the President, to cover it up. By the way, when Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon, he pardoned the man and the offense still has precedent. The Auld Pharts remember this as simply,  "Watergate".