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Self Defense, Irish Style (Updated for SezaGeoff)

Long time un-seen...

It's a good thing that Massa John's grandpappy made it across the pond to our shores here in America.  For if Grandpappy Donovan would have stayed in County Cork, Massa John by law would today be compelled to flee like a ninny from his own home in the event that someone would invade his residence.

Or as the current law reads:

...demands a house owner retreat from an intruder.

However The National Parliament of Ireland has introduced a bill which would allow Irish homeowners to legally use guns to defend themselves if their homes are attacked.  Furthermore it immunizes the homeowner from legal liability against the intruder; in the event that the invader gets hurt in you own home.

So as of today, you are not only compelled to flee from your home like a schoolgirl; but if the home-invader stubs his toe while attempting to rape your daughter, you are liable to indemnify him for bodily injury.  Leftist "Jurisprudence" at work!

Let's listen to the Irish Minister of Justice explain:



If anyone is interested a PDF of the Bill is: HERE

Read the article: HERE

UPDATE:



Boq

27 Comments

Leftist "Jurisprudence" at work!

That's the primary reason why "Justice" and "The Law" are no longer synonymous.

Or even overlap, to a great extent...
 
That would be my *great* grandpappy who fled. 
 
Another good Steve Lee song-  Note the guest appearance by BHO at 3:53....

Of course, his "I Like guns" is an all time top 10 hit.
 
Reading about stuff like that raises my blood pressure. This might not be a perfect country, but it's a pretty darn good one. At least we still (sometimes) have the right to kick the living crap out of home invaders.
 
I believe it's the same in England.  Makes sense, after all, how can you claim to be protecting your property, when it's all owned by the Royals?
 
This all may be true however as my grandfather once pointed out to me jest when talking of his days with the Black & Tans (and to a point The Armorer and myself probably illustrate) The Irish are like squirrels when it comes to firearms ;)
 
The Irish are like squirrels when it comes to firearms ;)

What, they keep burying them in Cassie's garden?

 
Response to Bloodspite: Ahhh, now, I get it, y'all got nuts! ;-)
 
Bill, that depends...are the holes in here garden about 52 "H x 22 "W x 39"D ?
 
Evidently not. She hasn't mentioned tumbling into one...
 
Who of you actually read this law?

The bill says that you are allowed to use force to protect your home, even if the intruder dies. It says:

It is immaterial whether the person using the force had a safe and practicable opportunity to retreat from the dwelling before using the force concerned.

and just like the talking head (minister of justice) in the clip is saying.

This law is a "clarification" of the current law and practices. "Retreating" was in that law, but that was already changed in a decision by the Supreme Court in favour of self defense by the home owner.

Read and listen good people, READ and LISTEN!!!
 
I have, Eric, while doing research for this posting.  And though it encourages the homeowner to flee his home, at least provides legal umbrage to stand your ground and defend for your family.

At least its progress in the right direction.
 
@Eric, I've read it, the "devil is still in the details and its application." For the sake of discussion, the Irish Police have a perceived "person of interest" living in his home. The Police want to capture him on "Terrorism Charges with a 'High Profile/ High Security Take Down." One minor detail, he is the wrong character, wrong identity with no Criminal or Terrorism history, at all.

Question, Is this like British Law, 'Where you are Guilty until you are Proven Innocent?' What happens when one or more police members are shot because of this action?

As tragic as this hypothetical situation sounds, it shows my point, 'The Devil is in the details and its application.
 
Why me?  I don't think there are any Irish in my tree.  Only the fact that this would be an improvement to Australian law.  Though as an old friend of mine used to say, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by six".
 
Sorry - just looked at the update, and it brought a tear to my eye!  I miss my pump action 12 gauge and the auto .22.  But they didn't get the rest - yet.
 
"The use of force shall not exclude the use of force causing death." That's pretty drastic to me Boq. It means that if the intruder is killed by the homeowner (the force used should be "reasonable") the last one walks free.

The law does not encourage the owner to flee, it says:
"It is immaterial whether the person using the force had a safe and practicable opportunity to retreat from the dwelling before using the force concerned."

The last law might have encouraged fleeing, but that was "repaired" by the Supreme Court to a certain degree, if the minister is right (and hey Irish politicians don't lie) in the video.

The devil is indeed in the detail; what is "reasonable" for instance? Still, a pretty big step forward for the concept of self defense. Which is, apart from one paragraph, exactly the opposite of what you write.


 
 
 Greetings:

My father grew up on the far end of County Cork's Beara Peninsula.  I grew up in the Bronx of the '50s and '60s.  When the dope plague reached our neighbor and the break-ins started, I was about 14 and had had a 22 caliber rifle for a couple of years.  My father took me aside for a little man-to-man heart-to-heart.  He basically told me that if I found one of these "individuals" in our apartment and the opportunity presented itself, I should feel free to shoot the "individual". Continuing, he said, "and then boy-o, go to the kitchen and get the carving knife and put it in his hand."  

Now that I think about it,  I'm not sure he said "individuals", but it was a polysyllabic word.


 
Heh - I guess that it's a matter of perspective, Eric.  From the "lead-slinging" side of the Atlantic where I stand, the language is very timid.  Looking at it from the old Anglo-Saxon legal tennent of inalienable right to self defense and self preservation, It's language is filled with euro-lefty weenie thought.  But it's progress.

Here in the state of Maryland, if anyone brakes the plane of the threshold of my home, they are fair game.  I still have to keep in mind the caliber and type of ammo I would use (I haven't shot anyone, nor hope to do so yet).  But if I use a weapon and ammo no more agressive to the type used by police, I am covered.  Other states are far more liberal in what and when you can use deadly force.
 

Out here, I can use whatever is handy, if the bad guy is advancing.  No holes in the back of the fleeing felon, however.  That is a perogative of the police.

That said, Eric performs a useful service.  Keeps us honest.  Tries to, anyway.

 
I side more with the idea that criminals should be totally unprotected by law during their act of crime.
 

If the perp who just invaded and violated my home, threatening my family, just happens to have  a few little holes in his/her back (with huge holes in their front, ammo selection is a bugger), then I shall blame myself for my bad aim/slow reaction time......  Not my fault they turned and ran.....

Nice ginsu knife in their hands eh?......

F* that!  You violate my castle and threaten my loved ones..... 

Then you deserve whatever my bad aim may give you....

Enough with this crap.

No more.

Respect my home/property and loved ones or suffer the consequences of YOUR actions.

End of story, no apologies.

But geez, I guess that's just my inner Marine speaking....

Bah!
 
My Grandmother was an Irish immigrant , she was all of 4 foot nothing. My Grandfather was over 7+ feet tall, that was as he was getting up in years. He could take a basketball and throw it like a baseball. My Grandfather wan an old fashioned sea captain, but this means he wasn't home very much. Therefore, he taught her how to use a firearm. This one day, I just get home from school and Dad is on the phone, this *bad* because Dad did not talk on the phone unless it was serious. One of my Grandparents' neighbors called on the phone about hearing gunshots in my Grandparents' house. My Father sent my Mother over to one of her friends to stay for a little while. The hard part is no matter what you do, it is wrong. Remember one thing. she came here about 1890, face or the loss of it, is a very major issue. I was talking with Dad about bringing in the local police chief to talk with Granny. But she was compliant and answered all of the questions. The intruder was shot 4 times with .22 calibre Longs, nothing above the waist. When I saw him. he was in the fetal position. The femoral artery was not hit. I asked my Dad if any vital organs had been hit? His answer was this, If they're yours, they're vital, if they belong to somebody else, they're not so vital.
 
Good one, Grumpy!  That reminds me of a letter to the editor in Women and Guns magazine, a few years back. The writer recommended that, if necessary to shoot another woman, aim a little above the pelvis, so as to hit the uterus, it being right vascular, and all. Bleed out quicker, y'know.

Let's not be sexist, and only shoot boys in their, uh, parts.
 
@JTG, you miss some points. This has nothing to do with being a sexist or sexual preferences. My Grandmother was a young lady, late 20's in 1890. The actual event happened in the early 1960's. If you do the math, you soon come to the conclusion, that she was an old 'broad.' She would often say, "The good die young and I'm not going!" She didn't want to kill him, but it was alright for his to wish he'd die." You could joke *with* her, but don't embarrass her or the Family. That is just the way it is.

Her motto-
"Maximum pain and minimum lethality"


 
Now that you've explained it, I think I catch yours and her's drift.  The law frowns on that kind of thing these days, though. (sigh!)
 
JIC,

Her thinking may not even be the issue. *Take a real good look at your own thinking.* The only time the "Motto" was an issue was in Self Defense. The "so-called victim, after he broke into an old woman's house" was a survivor, just a little wiser. The 'perp' was 6'5" male weighing 225 pound breaks into a  95-year old woman, 4 foot tall, less than a 100 pounds. This State has a Self Defense Law in your own home, then and NOW.
 
Oh yeah, she left him alive and with an education, too.