Comments for TINS! "Hello, Operator?"

TINS! "Hello, Operator?"

2010-01-05T11:44:07Z

It all started a couple of weeks ago when one of the shooters who lives in our hootch was chowing down with an SF-type he served with in northern Af-stan and said, “See those guys over there? They were doing Special Ops when it was just a mission, and not a branch.” He was pointing at J.J. (a pseudonym) and me.

Long story short, now there are a select group of Operators¹ who join us for supper.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
There are a couple of us Olde Tyme Aviators here at the schoolhouse, and one of ‘em is a former SF-type (J.J.) who saw the light after participating in the SouthEast Asian War Games on the ground. He and I didn’t meet over there, but we have -- or had -- a lot of friends and acquaintances in common, and on one particularly boring day a month ago, we were comparing notes on how the different “special” groups performed their particular "specialties. "

Now, in my our war, the Lurps (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols -- aka, Rangers) were primarily deep recon, but they did an occasional ambush or prisoner snatch. SEALs (everybody knows what SEALs are, so I’ll pass on the acronym) were primarily raiders and ambushers. When the Green Beanies went out, they did short-range recons, raids, ambushes, and whatnot. The one thing they all had in common was a helicopter lifeline – we put them where they wanted to be, and went to get them when where they were turned into someplace they really didn’t want to be.

There was a definite art to inserting them into an area and keeping the bad guys either unaware that the good guys had arrived or unsure of exactly where they had arrived, and the good guys depended on us ~~godlike beings~~ humble rotary-wing types to be just as sneaky and innovative getting them into an area as *they* were *after* we’d gotten them in.

They didn’t mind us not being quiet and sneaky getting them out. Quite the opposite, actually...

But, back to getting them *into* an area. One of the tricks we used was the false insertion -- flying single ship into an area low-level and shooting multiple approaches into likely LZs spaced at least 500 meters apart. We never landed, and never stopped the insertion sequence after the lads hopped out. The thinner the enemy commander had to spread his troops to cover all the possible areas, the better for our guys. In II, III and IV Corps, there were usually a plethora of openings -- bomb craters, oxbows on streambeds, abandoned rice paddies -- to allow a pilot to dip down and disappear into the trees long enough to mask what he’d been doing.

I pulled a mission one morning to insert a six-man patrol from the outpost at a place called Cai Cai. See below.

For those of you with dinky screens and want the Vietnam From 500 Feet Experience, Hi-Res here:

That’s looking southwest. Cai Cai was just south of the Cambodian border and well into the Plain of Reeds. The loooooong patch of dirt outside the perimeter wire is the airfield.

Note the distinct *absence* of trees.

Note also the distinct *height* of the reeds.

Okay, about 10 klicks south, there *were* some trees -- a small hummock about a half-acre square stuck up from the swamp high enough to keep the roots from drowning, and that was the area my six passengers were interested in. A foot patrol the previous week -- a training mission for some of the local Ruff-Puffs, actually -- had found a freshly-built bunker complex on the tree-island and my passengers were going to snoop to see who was using it, and basically gain as much intel as they could without actually going inside and taking pictures. The hummock was conveniently located between a couple of old rice paddies, so the good guys could hunker down behind one of the dikes and observe without being seen. My idea was to make several false insertions into the 10-foot high reeds about a klick east of the hummock, make the real one in the reeds close to a dike, then continue the masquerade for about five klicks, moving westward.

On the second false insertion, I popped above the reeds, came abreast of the tree-island and observed six people walking along a dike toward the hummock, which was about 300 meters to their south. All were wearing white shirts and black PJ pants, and three of them were carrying tote sacks. After the next false insertion, I saw they had reversed course and checked my map. The only thing that particular dike led to was Cambodia.

Being the sneaky, innovative type, I pointed them out to the patrol leader and asked if he minded if I made the actual insertion on the dike itself, say, about 50 feet in front of the Sunday strollers -- six good guys to greet six possible bad guys. He actually *liked* the idea.

When I put one skid on the dike, the patrol hopped out and the pedestrians immediately reversed course and began running for the hummock. They stopped when they discovered a Huey can move faster than a human being, and they discovered *that* when I plunked crosswise on the dike in front of them, with my gunner staring down the M-60 barrel at them and my crewchief pointing his M-16 nonchalantly in the general direction of their kneecaps.

Civilians would have stood there, hands out to their sides, or raised slightly to show they were unarmed.

These guys immediately assumed The Position -- squatting on their heels, hands behind the backs of their heads.

Figuring that the mission was well on the way to being successful at this point, the patrol leader decided to see what was in the tote sacks. They were full of Chieu Hoi leaflets², probably the same ones I had spent the previous evening dropping along the border, just to the north.

The patrol leader laughed so hard, he almost rolled off the dike.

We had busted the work detail tasked with prepping the bunkers for an extended occupancy, and they were stocking it with --

-- wait for it --

-- toilet paper³...

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
¹An Operator is a guy who does Special Operations. Ask him flat out what he does for a living, and if he doesn't know you, he’ll usually tell you he’s a cook. And if he *does* know you, it's because you already know what he does for a living, so there's no point in asking in the first place. Yeah, it's a vicious circle, ain't it?

²Chieu Hoi means "Open Arms" in Vietnamese. Chieu Hoi leaflet drops were a psyops mission -- we dropped leaflets into known bad guy areas and along known infiltration routes. One side said, basically, "We've got more stuff to kill you with than you can shake an AK at." and the flip side detailed procedures to *avoid* being killed -- basically, rally to the government, and you'll be welcomed with Open Arms.

³The VC used the leaflets to start their cooking fires. The NVA used them for toilet paper. Fortunately for me, the Army didn't realize the significant impact that leaflet drops had in contributing to "the aid and comfort of the enemy."

Comment from Carol Kirk on 2010-01-08

2010-01-08T16:23:52Z

Sorry I missed your post on the other forum. I have to be careful about how much time I spend on VN boards or it does bad things to the old psyche.

I'm not sure but it may have been George then who took me up in a cobra after Frank was killed. We flew up to Vinh Long and I got to call in to the tower, "Vinh Long tower this is Knucklebuster 4 over the gravel pit and inbound for landing", then got to hear tower stutter for several seconds as they tried to figure out what the Hell was going on.

From Vinh Long we went on up towards the mouth of the Mekong and he let me play in a free-fire zone. Blowing up a sampan about that time made me feel a whole lot better!

Then we landed at Vung Tau. Some older crewman came around an opened the AC's canopy, then walked around and opened mine. About that time I pulled my helmet off. He just stared for a minute, shook his head and said, "God damn, they'll let anybody fly these days."

-Carol-

Comment from BillT on 2010-01-08

2010-01-08T14:17:16Z

Heh. None of us blamed Frank for being -- ummmmmm -- cautious. And George Hawkins was the pipe-smoker.

I did a post a few years ago memorializing the guys we lost over there. Your husband recognized the patches, gave me a nice comment mentioning the VHPA reunion happenstance, and said he thought you might enjoy hearing from guys who knew Frank. I posted a note at the vet forum I hang out at occasionally, but never got any feedback. I didn't feel I could add anything, since I'd only known Frank from having him fly cover for me on a couple of CAs -- as soon as he'd finished flying, he'd hop in a jeep and zip over to Binh Thuy

*grin*

for some reason...

Comment from Carol Kirk on 2010-01-08

2010-01-08T13:54:04Z

Bill, it's kinda sad but I don't remember many of the guys from the 162md. Frank sort of kept me to himself I think (grin!). I sort of remember Ken Loveless, I think. Did he by chance smoke a pipe?

I ran into Tim Messett, Jim Willard and some of the other Vultures some years back when the VN Helicopter Pilot's reuninion was in Nashville. I wandered around the hall to see if there was anyone there I knew and saw a bunch of guys in Vulture T-shirts sitting in the lobby. I walked over to them and said "Hi, I'm..." and before I could say anything else Jim yelled "God damn, it's Frank's nurse!" The next year they dragged me to the reunion in DC, and then my husband and I went to their mini-reunition at Tim's house in Florida.

After Frank was killed I extended and spent an extra 6 months in Vietnam, but I left the Delta and went up to the 45th Surg in Tay Ninh. I stayed in the Army over 20, retired, then got called back for Desert Storm before retiring again.

-Carol-

Comment from BillT on 2010-01-08

2010-01-08T11:41:44Z

Well, I'll be dipped, Carol -- we *did* meet, very briefly, in December '69! Ken Loveless and George Hawkins dragged me over to the club at Binh Thuy to grab some supper -- Frank brought you over to say hello, and after a couple of minutes, the two of you returned to your table.

You'll probably just remember me as the dumb 1LT who was too stunned to do anything more than mutter "Hi..."

Funny you mentioned Tim Messett -- the only times we ever flew together, we just got hit in oddball parts of the aircraft, like the skid crosstubes and the synch elevator...

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2010-01-07

2010-01-08T02:02:01Z

Carol - my server stuttered, not your computer. All better. Welcome to the Great Hall Echo!

Comment from Carol Kirk on 2010-01-07

2010-01-08T01:35:12Z

Well shit! Didn't know the damn computer stuttered.

-Carol-

Comment from Carol Kirk on 2010-01-07

2010-01-08T01:05:03Z

Hi Bill, We may have crossed paths over there. I was just up the road in Binh Thuy. I was the nurse that Frank Brinson was dating. I'm still in touch with a bunch of the guys from the Vultures including Jim Willard and Tim Messett.

The guy I knew from B-40 (which was I believe at Don Phouc) was Mike Canavan who was dating my best friend.

-Carol-

Comment from Cricket on 2010-01-07

2010-01-07T20:19:29Z

I guess you would have been aiding and comforting the enemy with the leaflets...might have been softer than what they were using...tree bark, rice husks..

Bwahahaha...

Comment from BillT on 2010-01-06

2010-01-07T05:48:52Z

Uhhhh...WOW! Thanks, Bill! Got more?????

Sure. Click on the archives by category and then open up "This Is No Sh*t!"

I had good friends in SF, mostly with B-40

I went to collitch with one of the guys in B-40, but the patrol was from A-341. When were you there, Carol? You may have flown with one or two of the lurkers here -- although V29 *does* jump into the conversation every so often.

Comment from Carol Kirk on 2010-01-06

2010-01-06T22:50:36Z

Oh my but that brings back a lot of memories. I saw a bunch of the Delta from that altitude and lower courtesy of some of the pilots from Can Tho. I remember some of those triangular fortifications.. most left over from the days of the French. I had good friends in SF, mostly with B-40

Comment from V29 on 2010-01-06

2010-01-06T16:28:37Z

I must admit there were times when the crew did forget to open the bundles. I hated those missions, we were nothing but a huge target and I seldom heard of a Cheu Hoi walking in carrying one.

Comment from Sean Maloney on 2010-01-06

2010-01-06T14:24:39Z

Uhhhh...WOW! Thanks, Bill! Got more?????

Change the green for desert dust and I'm back in AFG on Route FOSTERS.

Shit! Did I just write that???? I've been the one going on about how AFG isn't VN.....

Comment from Justthisguy on 2010-01-05

2010-01-06T02:22:11Z

Some things never change. I recall reading the memoirs of a Great War pilot, in which he complained about having to drop leaflets, or "bumf" (bum fodder) on the Germans. He said they generally didn't bother to untie the bundles, just tossed the whole lump over the side. That way, they might either actually

a. Hurt somebody, or

b. Provide a nice store of a$$wipe, all in one lump.

He said the one with the Fourteen Points made a particularly huge and heavy lump.

Comment from ChrisP on 2010-01-05

2010-01-06T01:57:10Z

Thanks, UnkaBill!
Takes me back about 40 years!
You rock!

ChrisP

Comment from Old Fat Sailor on 2010-01-05

2010-01-06T00:42:00Z

Triangle shape let us river rats put supporting fire over two thirds of the wire and at the same time cover the dock for insertion or extraction

Comment from John (Not The Armorer) on 2010-01-05

2010-01-06T00:03:30Z

DIttos on Boq's instantaneous seeing this as the Jamestown fort.

Thanks for the story, and the ancient service that provided the opportunity to regale us young 'uns about the olde days.

Comment from Barb on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T20:30:08Z

Good story, Bill :-) Always learn something new here, that I do !

Comment from olga on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T19:41:51Z

Oh, a TINS!!!!
Yeah!!!
[Jumps up and down clapping hands]
Thank you, Bill!!

Comment from Neffi on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T17:57:17Z

As a taxpayer, I sure hope we printed those leaflets on *single-ply* paper... 8^)

Comment from Andrew on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T17:56:04Z

That's not an outpost, it's a small fort! A soldier from the French and Indian War/Seven Year's War in North America would consider that a major fortification. Which begs the question, why make it a triangle? A Vauban fort would be harder to attack.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Vauban+fort&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Comment from AFSister on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T17:35:06Z

'tis been a while since we've been graced with a TINS.... AND I'VE MISSED THEM!!
Thanks, Twin!

(and speaking of TINS... did you get the package I sent last month?? )

Comment from bad cat robot on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T16:43:23Z

Jamestown probably had comperable numbers of mosquitos, too -- but fewer enraged water buffalo, so there's *that*.

Cool story UnkaBill!

Comment from Boquisucio on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T15:52:21Z

How little have military fortifications advanced in these past three hundred years. That Cai Cai FOB looks just like the Jamestown Palisade.

Comment from Felicia on 2010-01-05

2010-01-05T15:42:23Z

Hello, my name is Felicia and I came from Sweden. In school have we worked about war and I've gotten really interested in the subject of war and I would like to write a book about it. I looking for a person how have experienced war in Iraq or other country, how want to write a book whit me about it. Contact me