Comments for Northwest Crew Buffoonery...a Sympathetic Perspective (Sort of)

Northwest Crew Buffoonery...a Sympathetic Perspective (Sort of)

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:05:30 -0600

I know I don't have a lot of Airpower stuff to pontificate on much these days, what with very little going on in the air combat arena around the world right now, but for what it's worth, allow me to clue you in to what often goes on in the front of an airliner during relatively long (3+ hours, say) trips.While no longer a Hog pilot, I do still fly for a livink and am sitting in the hotel waiting for my next trip to start day after tomorrow.I just got in from Taipei early this afternoon and will be going to Inchon...

Comment from RoyK on 2009-10-28

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:04:35 -0600

AFSister,
If I may, as I'm never in a position of Authority until the SHTF;
The airport was, most certainly, informed and updated on the status of the flight. But the airport, not being in direct communication with the aircraft until the very late stages of the flight, would be unable to do much of anything besides prepare for the eventual arrival.
Authorities, on the other hand.........were most likely very concerned about the lack of communications. I'm sure the pilot got a message from the airport tower, upon landing, to call a certain 800-###-#### ASAP to do some explaining.
The fighters? I believe they were ready or on the way.
And, apparentely, it was the crew in the back, not the flight crew in front, that first noticed the problem!

Comment from AFSister on 2009-10-28

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:14:03 -0600

I'd like to know how the airport handled the non-communcation.
My first thought when I heard about this was.. "WTF? How could that happen?"
My second thought was.. "Why didn't we send fighters into the air to see WTF was going on!"
It seems to me that in this post-9/11 era that if a large plane goes without answering calls for well over an HOUR, SOMETHING should have been done to find the sucker!

Comment from RoyK on 2009-10-28

Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:02:20 -0600

"The two Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot their Minneapolis destination by 150 miles are grounded indefinitely unless the National Transportation Safety Board grants them a reprieve."

Per Foxnews. And they will most likely take a severe financial, possibly permanent, hit over this.

And, not for nothing, http://www.neptunuslex.com/2009/10/22/hard-to-grok/ roughed out a transition from cruise to the approach for landing phase. These guys were most likely off by lot more than 150 miles!

Comment from RoyK on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:40:54 -0600

Oh boy!
Preview! Always!
'voice' and 'significance'
My bad.

Comment from RoyK on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:36:59 -0600

Boquisucio,

Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending upon which side of the cockpit door your on) the CVR in this aircraft, apparently, records only the last 30 minutes of cockpit voise. Unless the Flight Crew were very chatty during that time period, its unlikely anything of significant will be discovered.

Comment from exhelodrvr on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:52:51 -0600

Understandable how it happened, but also understandable that they should lose their positions.

Comment from Attila on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:47:05 -0600

The cockpit voice recorder, as opposed to the digital flight data recorder, is constantly recording what is said in the cockpit and is retrievable by the company, so I'm thinking they've already reviewed that but I doubt there will be a release of it without a major fight. These comprise the two "black boxes" and both are accessible to the company and the NTSB but neither will divulge the contents without going through major legal hoops.
As for banging on the door, that's what the intercom (the phone thingie the flight attendants use to give you the safety brief as you're taxiing out) is for. It generates a little "Ding!" in the cockpit that gets your attention. I think that's how they got the flight crews attention--it was 5 min to scheduled arrival and they were still cruising, which prompted the cabin crew to ask the pilots, WTFO--but I could be wrong.

Comment from Barb on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:56:03 -0600

I'm a bit surprised that the cabin crew weren't banging on the door wandering WTF was going on.

Comment from Boquisucio on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:41:50 -0600

Silly question from one of the ruttabagas that you haul in the rear of your aluminum tubes, Attila. The Black Boxes, are they strictly to be opened and examined by the NTSB? Or can they be used by management to review other security breaches?

If so, the "Real" truth would be self evident upon listening to the cockpit recorders.

Comment from olga on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:33:05 -0600

I was wondering if the scheduling was THAT important ... Now, you answered that question, thanks!

Comment from Fishmugger on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:25:55 -0600

So I'm a civilian with hundreds and hundreds of take off and landings and some very good friends that are commercial pilots. Good enough to where I flew jump seat from Atlanta to Newark in a 727 (very illegal even then) They just didn't miss one check point, they missed many. If they really were discussing seniority and not flying the plane, they should at least loose theirs. When I screw up in my job it costs me money or the whole job.

Yes it's boring on the flight deck with all that automation and no flight attendant to play grab-ass with. But if you can't pay attention, it's time to find another type of job.

Comment from John (not the Armorer) on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:07:44 -0600

Stuff hapens. People screw up. Procedures and rules are in place to deal with screw ups. MORE rules, regulations, laws, oversigh grandstanding, etc are NOT the answer.

Let the company/FAA investigate, then fire the guilty SOBs.

Then fire any Congrescritter who claims they have a solution, as they are obviously a lying worthless SOB. But, they are Congresscritters, so that is redundent.

Comment from GaMongrel on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:35:26 -0600

My perspective as an infrequent flyer and fan of aviation is that these guys missed their turn, they turned around and safely landed... it's not as big a deal as the panicky media is making it out to be.
Of course, more regulation is the answer here (rolleyes).

I'd rather see more focus and pressure put on the govt/airlines to deal with the customer service shortcomings of passengers being stranded/held hostage for unreasonable time frames on the tarmac.

Comment from Neffi on 2009-10-27

Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:30:03 -0600

Gann wrote of the 'tyrrany of seniority' as far back as 1961, in "Fate is the Hunter", when he flew with guys that had numbers in the double digits. Those poor NWA guys are assessing their new career options, I'm thinking...