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Continuing the whatziss, day two.

By The Armorer on October 8, 2009 | | Comments (16)

Need to catch up?  Click here.

For the rest of you - a tantalizing sense of... "I've seen that before, but it looks wrong, somehow..."

That's how I felt when I first saw the rifle.

Another view. Oh, and meet the Auld Soldier's auld soldier, Damncat.
 

If you don't get it today, why, tomorrow I might even let you see... *markings*.

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16 Comments

By Fishmugger on October 8, 2009 9:29 AM
If that's a real Tiger in the background; then you have something like a 20MM anti tank gun. If that's a little tabby wanna be; you have something that looks like what Boys Life tried to sell me when I was a kid.
 
By MikeD on October 8, 2009 11:14 AM
I'll take a swing and say that's an 8mm Mauser.
 
By SangerM on October 8, 2009 11:27 AM
An old early model Enfield of some kind?
 
By Alan D. Briley, RN on October 8, 2009 12:17 PM
 Late 1800's (1880-1899), tubular magazine rifle? (Or Pakistani copy?)  ;)
 
By Spiff on October 8, 2009 12:43 PM
It looks like an early cartridge conversion, the bolt reminds me of an 1870's conversion that excapes me...I was very young then and not interested in guns...
Spiff
 
By John of Argghhh! on October 8, 2009 2:10 PM
Mike - no.
Sanger - getting closer
Alan - yes on era, no on the rest.
Spiff - you're getting warmer.
 
By John (not the armorer) on October 8, 2009 3:15 PM
Oooohhh!!!! Ooohh!! I know!!!

It was a British .577 Enfield muzzle loading rifle musket. It has been converted to a single shot bolt action breechloader using a system invented by a gent named Brown, of Newburyport, Massachusetts.

This was done circa 1869-1870 when most countries had armories filled with suddenly obsolete muzzle loading muskets, and were trying to figure out how to quickly and economically outfit their armies with breech loading metallic cartridge rifles. The Brits ended up going with the Snider system, while the U.S. adopted the Allin "trapdoor" design(s).

There were dozens of disappointed inventors who turned out anywhere from a single example of their invention to guys like Brown who made a few hundred, only to miss out on the opportunity to enrich themselves off government contracts. [They had not yet figured out how to be "consultants"......]

Arms of that era are fascinating in their variety and mechanical ingenuity. There is a great website by Keith Doyan "MILITARY RIFLES IN THE AGE OF TRANSITION:
(Non-U.S.) Black Powder, Metallic Cartridge, Military Rifles from about 1865 to about 1888.” Check it out for lots of cool info. (For those inclined to this sort of thing, it is a great source of inspiration to identify things that one just “must” have!) Check it out at http://www.militaryrifles.com/

For the “trapdoor” enthusiasts (yes, there are more than one) author and guru Al Frasca has a great site http://trapdoorcollector.com/ with loads of info and a discussion board for newbies and the hardcore addicts.

Some people think that arms of that era are a good collecting niche. Wide variety, mostly not terribly expensive, they can be fired, and are (thus far) pretty much immune to any sort of government red tape.

 
By Rod Thorsen on October 8, 2009 5:29 PM
WOW!!  John (not the armouror) you've convinced me!!

Lookie, Lookie

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php
 
By Rod Thorsen on October 8, 2009 5:37 PM
WOW!!  John (not the armourer) you've convinced me!!

Lookie, lookie

www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php
 
By Rod Thorsen on October 8, 2009 5:42 PM
UUGH, double post, and I checked after the first seemed to fail!!
 
By Rod Thorsen on October 8, 2009 5:46 PM
Well at least the second link works.
 
By SangerM on October 8, 2009 8:41 PM
Huh...  I guessed on the Enfield because of the sight... My father had an Enfield 'Jungle Rifle' from WWII I think it was, had a cone-shaped flash hider and a forward windage sight that was almost the same as what's in the top picture.  I guess you keep what works, eh?

Rod T: That's an Interesting weapon.... What's the rod sticking out of the lower front.  Isn't that the tamping rod, and if so why still there, or is it a cleaner rod as well? 

I'll bet that thing was a bugger to fire....
 
By Rod Thorsen on October 8, 2009 9:23 PM
SangerM, not a clue tho cleaning rod sounds good to me.  I was just looking for what John NTA gave us.
 
By og on October 10, 2009 3:11 PM
I'd say chassepot, but the sight looks backwards.
 
By Grimmy on October 10, 2009 3:53 PM
Scroll down a bit on this page:
www.auctionarms.com/search/printitem.cfm

And you'll see the bolt half exposed on the rifle J (NtA) calls it to be. I suspect he got it cold.
 
By Colin on October 10, 2009 5:07 PM
It's the same sight on the Nepalese snider I just received in the mail, but the breech appears to be different. The Snider has a straight cut across the breech.