Comments for Someone has been channeling John... We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:15:49 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Someone has been channeling John... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:47:37 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-08-03
I think it's politics, mostly, with a smidge of what SAJames had to say.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91615 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91615 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:54:28 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-08-03 these guys.

SA James - maybe.  Certainly possibly true on a unit-by-unit basis, but I don't think that covers it all.

John - and the shiner we took over Grenada (not that there weren't some egregrious abuses, just as there have been in this war) was mostly self-inflicted, because no one got across the point that *everybody* who hit the island and the surrounding waters qualified for the Expeditionary Medal.  The initial releases and PAO responses never got around to clarifying how it all worked unitl it was too late.

They're right - for *any* war we participate in, there will be mored gongs than participants, because pretty much everybody who is in the right geographic area for sufficient time will get the campaign medal.

But explaining the diffrerence between awards and medals gets tedious.  How one is for participation, and the other for doing something above and beyond just showing up and doing the usual.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91614 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91614 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:48:03 -0600 Comment from BillT on 2009-08-03
Valor awards for survivors of firefights were sparse in IV Corps after '69. Had to maintain the fiction that there were "no US combat troops in the Mekong Delta" yanno...
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91610 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91610 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 05:49:37 -0600 Comment from Cannonshop on 2009-08-03
I think they're waiting to award it to a flag-ranked officer who's a member of the ring-knocker club.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91608 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91608 Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:43:43 -0600 Comment from SAJames on 2009-08-02 Please tell me I'm wrong.

]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91606 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91606 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:52:42 -0600 Comment from John S Allison on 2009-08-02 Let's not forget that the military got quite a shiner over the wheelbarrow full of awards shoveled out after Grenada. This has resulted in a goodly amount of 'unofficial' policy that tends to downplay/grade awards when the recommender isn't one of the anointed few. During GWI I had an 0-4 tell me that there would be no awards of any kind for our group for any reason. We were in theater on a TDY assignment and we were supposed to be grateful for that. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91603 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91603 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:34:46 -0600 Comment from Lamigra on 2009-08-02
No such animal.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91600 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:58:20 -0600 Comment from sss on 2009-08-02
Of course, this doesn't apply to media coverage of the enemy; we've been treated to daily reports of their 'bag' since 2001]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91597 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91597 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:25:38 -0600 Comment from wolfwalker on 2009-08-02
OTOH, I've read and heard of actions from Afghanistan and Iraq that sounded as desperate as any fighting in WW2.  So I also wonder why there have been only a handful awarded in those wars, and all posthumously. 

The Wikipedia article on the Medal of Honor suggests that "because of the intense partisan politics" over these two wars, recommendations for the Medal of Honor may have been vetted much more fiercely than in the past.  There's an unspoken implication that some possible MoH'es have been knocked down to Navy Crosses or DSCs to avoid political arguments.

Is there any way to find out how many soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines have been recommended for the Medal of Honor as a result of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars? 
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91594 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91594 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:30:25 -0600 Comment from Argent on 2009-08-02
it's a different kind of war. The enemy uses IEDs and we use Predators.
a bit on the nose.  I mean it almost reeks as if this war was easy for the men and women who fight it.  As though predators do all the work.  Sure the war is different but I don't think that makes the people who have fought it any less deserving of medals.

OTOH I'm not really into medal allocation by numbers and number comparisons from previous wars.  it should be by the actual requirements of the medal.

These numbers do alert us, however, into wondering what is going on upstairs.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91589 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91589 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 10:01:41 -0600 Comment from WS on 2009-08-02
"it's a different kind of war. The enemy uses IEDs and we use Predators."

I am irritated by that on a number of levels.  Statements like this totally overlook the courage and determination of our boots on the ground.  Leaving myself out of it, my oldest son is a 19A with two deployments down range and my youngest is going into his senior year at one of our local big land grant U's.  He'll be wearing crossed rifles too, through a ROTC commision.  (Yes, I click on the link.)

So, I guess my point is, and I am sure you will agree, this generation is no less brave or tough than their forefathers who have served our country in the past.  They, meaning the powers that be,  just choose not to recognize it.  There sure seem to be a lot of BSM's out there without V's on 'em nowadays.  Just sayin.....

]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91588 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/08/someone_has_bee.html#comment-91588 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:50:44 -0600