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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-</id>
  <updated>2012-03-24T15:17:09Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for BANANAS, Military Coups d&apos;états in Latin America</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2010</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=10965" title="BANANAS, Military Coups d'états in Latin America" />
    <published>2009-07-02T16:45:01Z</published>
    <updated>2010-07-29T11:45:16Z</updated>
    <title>BANANAS, Military Coups d&apos;états in Latin America</title>
    <summary><![CDATA[First of all, I'd like to thank Massa John for letting me use the front door of his Castle.&nbsp; I hope that I&nbsp;won't let him down.
Whenever the general American public hears the terms: Latin American Military and Coup d&rsquo;&eacute;tat, this is what comes to mind:






But why?]]></summary>
    <author>
      <name>Boquisucio</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Politics" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com/">
      <![CDATA[<em>First of all, I'd like to thank Massa John for letting me use the front door of his Castle.&nbsp; I hope that I&nbsp;won't let him down.</em><br />
<br />
Whenever the general American public hears the terms: Latin American Military and Coup d&rsquo;&eacute;tat, this is what comes to mind:<br />
<br />
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<br />
But why?  In short, we have collectively bought into Marxist propaganda of distortion and disinformation.  You see, Marxists everywhere and in this case Leftists in Latin America HATE their Militaries because the Militaries are the only thing standing in their way towards their Socialist utopia.  Because civilian political institutions are weak, The Military is the only effective stabilizing institution that they have.  Remember, while the Militaries create order, Marxists thrive in chaos.   A constant misinformation campaign upon their Militaries, has convinced us that the Military is composed of nothing but:<br />
<br />
A)	Bumbling amateurish fools, or <br />
B)	Thuggish greedy megalomaniacs.<br />
<br />
Latin American Military institutions are by-in-large conservative professional in nature.  Just like in the U.S. they pledge an oath to protect and defend their respective flags and constitutions &ndash; Not a particular individual.   As a rule of thumb, Latin American civilian politicians whore themselves and the future of their countries with reckless abandon.  As a matter of course, they routinely tear-up their constitutions.  In Latin America, it is not The Supreme Court, nor Congress, but The Military that keeps the country in an even keel.  Thus, whenever a particular civilian administration goes too far in assaulting their constitutions, reluctantly their Militaries raises-up in their (the constitutions&rsquo;) defense.<br />
<br />
There are exceptions to this rule of thumb.  At times Militaries have been abusive and over-reaching.  In 1948, the Costa Rican Military got itself entangled in a failed Coup which cost them their institutions themselves.  As a result, Costa Rica abolished its Army, and their democracy became very stable.  During the 1970&rsquo;s the Military Juntas in Brazil and Argentina sent their countries into a hyperinflationary tailspin, as they vainly tried to hang-on to power. They flooded their countries with gobs of new money in a vain attempt to bail-out their cronies (sounds familiar?).  How about Drug Dealing Noriega? And of course, who can&rsquo;t forget The Falklands War.  The Argentinean Junta crafted that ill begotten adventure in a last ditch effort.  A Swan Song so to speak, in a vain attempt to rally the flagging support of their countrymen, into a patriotic war of liberation.  <br />
<br />
Those four terrible examples are the exception, not the rule of Latin American Military involvement in politics.  Mostly however, they detest having to get themselves out of garrison, and take over the Capitol and Presidential Palace.  In most cases, whenever there is a political crisis of some sort, a well placed grumble from the Casern is enough to set the politicians straight.  If the politicians don&rsquo;t take the hint however, they are forced to roll <a href="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/3677802118_8c9bfe12dc_o.jpg"><strong><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">TANKS</span></strong></a> onto the streets.<br />
<br />
The period of the late 1960&rsquo;s and early 1970&rsquo;s were truly dark for Latin America.  While the U.S. was too self-focused in being defeated in Vietnam, Marxists throughout the region were busy spreading chaos everywhere.  Leninists in agitated for revolution in Brazil.  Maoist Urban Guerrillas were busy robbing banks, car and bus-bombing the streets of Buenos Aires and Montevideo.  Their targeted kidnappings and assassinations were particularly brutal. <br />
<br />
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I wish that the general readers of this blog would understand Spanish, for this video details the Marxist atrocities in Argentina during that period.  If anything, pictures speak for themselves.<br />
<br />
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<br />
Where do you think the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbionese_Liberation_Army"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><strong>Symbionese Liberation Army</strong></span></a> got its idea of kidnapping <a href="http://www.calendarlive.com/media/photo/2004-11/15226151.jpg"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><strong>Patty Hearst</strong></span></a> from?&nbsp; &ldquo;Lucky&rdquo; for us here in the U.S. they were all amateurs.  In Latin America, they were not.<br />
<br />
With their nations in absolute chaos, Chile (in 1973) and Argentina (in 1976) saw Military Coups.  The Military backlash was brutal.  There are no other words for it.  But brutal times require brutal remedies.  The Militaries cast wide and deep nets, in an aggressive effort to stamp-out every single communist in their countries.  As a result both the hard-core Marxist Guerrilla and people tangentially sympathetic to their cause were caught and executed.  Tens of thousands were &ldquo;disappeared&rdquo;, simply erased from the face of this earth.  Today, the liberal media remembers only the<a href="http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t002/T002069A.jpg "><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><strong> &ldquo;Innocent&rdquo; disappeared</strong></span></a>.&nbsp; But not the <a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OzlcG6YJV24/RoSNJP84qUI/AAAAAAAAAGs/IXuEc2G3Ipg/s1600-h/montoneros1.jpg"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><strong>CARNAGE</strong></span></a>&nbsp; that these &ldquo;Angels&rdquo; all, left in the streets of Buenos Aires. <br />
<br />
But it is because Pinochet in Chile and the Junta in Argentina, that we now have stable prosperous democracies in these countries.  After the convulsions of violence, order and structure were restored.  It came to either that right-winged backlash, or PolPot regimes all throughout the region?<br />
<br />
Which brings me to HONDURAS:<br />
Last week, the Honduran Military had enough of President Zelaya&rsquo;s machinations.  <br />
- Zelaya wanted to carbon copy Ch&aacute;vez&rsquo;s playbook, and turn Hondurans into a Socialist nation.  He first wanted to rewrite its constitution, and convene a constitutional assembly all composed of its cronies.  <br />
-However, according to the current constitution this power to convene a constitutional assembly resides in their Congress, not the President.  Zelaya.<br />
-Undaunted Zelaya decided to carry out a national referendum against the Congress wishes, and against a restraining order by their Supreme Court.  <br />
-Given that the Honduran Electoral Commission didn&rsquo;t go along with this scheme, Ch&aacute;vez, his buddy in Venezuela, sent Zelaya all required voting materials for this referendum.  <br />
-Furthermore, the Supreme Court in its findings, ordered the Military not to act in support of this referendum.  <br />
-The Honduran Chief of Staff, General V&aacute;squez informed President Zelaya that they would have to comply with the Supreme Court&rsquo;s order.<br />
-In turn Zelaya fired the general on the spot.  <br />
-The Supreme Court, then ordered President Zelaya to reinstate the General, as he was acting according to the orders of the Supreme Court.  <br />
-The President refused.<br />
<br />
Upon this, and on the night prior to the referendum, The Military acted in defense of the constitution.  They roused-up the President in his jammies, and booted him on a plane to Costa Rica, while still in his fuzzy pink slippers.  The military immediately handed over power to the Leader of Congress, Roberto Milichetti.  The Honduran Constitutions requires that in case of incapacity or vacancy of the Presidency, the Leader of Congress is to vacate his post in Congress and assume the Executive Powers.  I am sure that the Honduran Military didn&rsquo;t require any more incentive, than looking at the Venezuelan Military&rsquo;s new Motto: <em>Patria, Socialismo, o Muerte</em>. (Country, Socialism, or Death).  Sure, they wouldn&rsquo;t mind putting their lives for the cause of their country, but for Socialism, NO WAY<br />
<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;"><center><img border="0" alt="" src=" http://www.ejercito.mil.ve/images/stories/cmdte/banner_bienvenida.jpg" /></center> <a href="http://www.ejercito.mil.ve/images/stories/cmdte/banner_bienvenida.jpg"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><strong>THIS</strong></span></a> is straight from the Venezuelan Army's Homepage</div>
<br />
To this, all the usual suspects are squealing bloody murder.  THIS is Zelaya sharing some skin with Ch&aacute;vez, while Ortega looks on quite droopy.  (I once bumped into Daniel Ortega right in the middle of an AUSA annual meeting in Washington DC &ndash; I S*HIT YOU NOT)  But that&rsquo;s another story.<br />
<br />
All the leftist government vociferously decried the Coup.  The governments of El Salvador, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Bolivia, Cuba and Venezuela, made a united declaration stating that they would do all in their power to restore Zelaya back to power.  Ch&aacute;vez even went so far as putting its Military in alert, stating that it would even intervene militarily to carry out Zelayas restoration to power.  This is more as an empty saber-rattle, as Venezuela lacks the means to project power across the Caribbean to Honduras.  But what they can do is destabilize Honduras through the land borders of El Salvador and Nicaragua.  They have already frozen Honduran government accounts and closed-down all land border crossings.  Not to be left behind, Obama has vociferously condemned the Coup also by stating...<br />
<blockquote>
<div style="text-align: justify;"><a href="http:// http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Statement-from-the-President-on-the-situation-in-Honduras/">I am deeply concerned by reports coming out of Honduras regarding the detention and expulsion of President Mel Zelaya. As the Organization of American States did on Friday, I call on all political and social actors in Honduras to respect democratic norms, the rule of law and the tenets of the Inter-American Democratic Charter. Any existing tensions and disputes must be resolved peacefully through dialogue free from any outside interference.</a></div>
</blockquote>Now to be fair with President Obama, President Bush would issue a similar statement also.  But Bush would publicly issue a Pro Forma statement of condemnation, and then turn and provide quiet support to the new government.  President Obama on the other hand, is liable to going further and openly work to destabilize Honduras, as Venezuela and the other miscreants have pledged to do.  That has me concerned.<br />
<br />
This Coup in Honduras has stirred in me a few nagging questions:  We in this country, have been blessed to have a government of laws and by laws.  No matter how whacked-out our politicians may seem from time to time, the have not trampled gratuitously our Constitution.  As such, our military has faithfully reported to the civilian governments.  But what if someday our government rips-up our Constitution with reckless abandon?  Will our military be forced to take remedial action and actively defend our Constitution against our civilian politicians? I hope that it never comes to that?  But if it does, we will quickly find out that we aren&rsquo;t that much different from those so-called Banana Republics that neighbor us in the South.<br />
<br />
Where this will all end, I do not know.  We just have to stay tuned to see what comes out of this.<br />
<br />
BOQ<br />]]>
      
    </content>
  </entry>

  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-comment:90371</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html#comment-90371" />
    <title>Comment from Cortillaen on 2009-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cortillaen</name>
        <uri>http://cortillaen.wordpress.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://cortillaen.wordpress.com/">
        <![CDATA[Granted, I had to make use of computer translation, but the article you linked seems to go against your claims.&nbsp;  Unless I'm misreading, the interviewer tried twice to get the Colonel to call the military's actions a coup but was rebuffed both times.&nbsp;  I also see nothing to support the idea that &quot;The Military handed power to Congress&quot; since they never took power in the first place. <br />
<br />
I don't understand how you can call it a military coup d'etat when the military was acting on a court order (which was, in turn, following the constitution) in removing Zelayas from power.&nbsp;  That's the sticking point.&nbsp;  The Colonel specifically states (again, unless I'm misreading or the translation is wrong) that the military's higher ups have been leery of Zelaya for a while but took no action (which <em>would</em> have been a military coup) until the court order came down.&nbsp;  That sounds distinctly like a military trying to avoid going the banana republic route.<br />
<br />
Basically, I'd like to know why this should be called a coup d'etat, and the reason needs to be more than &quot;I say so&quot;.&nbsp; <em>Why</em> do you think so? &nbsp;I argue that it is not because it did not involve the seizure of power or any alteration of the constitution or government.&nbsp;  Rather, it was the constitutionally mandated and court-sanctioned removal of a single person who had violated that constitution. <br />
<blockquote>
A quick and decisive seizure of governmental power by a strong military or political group.&nbsp; In contrast to a revolution, a coup d'&eacute;tat, or coup, does not involve a mass uprising.&nbsp; Rather, in the typical coup, a small group of politicians or generals arrests the incumbent leaders, seizes the national radio and television services, and proclaims itself in power.<br />
<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coup%20d%27%C3%A9tat" rel="nofollow">The American Heritage&reg; New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition</a><br />
<br />
A coup d'&eacute;tat (pronounced /ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/ us dict: kōō&prime;&middot;dā&middot;t&acirc;&prime;), or coup for short, is the sudden, unconstitutional deposition of a legitimate government, by a small group of the State Establishment &mdash; usually the military &mdash; to replace the deposed government with another, either civil or military.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat" rel="nofollow">wikipedia.com</a><br />
<br />
The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small group of persons in or previously in positions of authority.<br />
<a href="http://www.answers.com/topic/coup-d-tat" rel="nofollow">answers.com</a>
</blockquote>None of those definitions are accurate for this event.&nbsp;  There was no small group of elites:&nbsp;  It was the military acting on an order from the Supreme Court followed by the installation of the leader of Congress as the new president, as required by the constitution.&nbsp;  There was no seizure of power:&nbsp;  The military only removed Zelayas, leaving executive power to be transferred according to constitutional mandate. &nbsp; There was no overthrow of the government:&nbsp;  Zelayas was removed, but the constitution and its government are still very much in place.&nbsp;  The removal of Zelayas from office was neither illegal nor unconstitutional.<br />
<br />
I will grant that the military commanders' decision to boot Zelayas out of the country was in violation of the court order, but that is a separate issue from his actual removal from office.&nbsp;  It was also intended to avoid the bloodshed of letting Zelayas turn into a martyr and figurehead for a socialist/communist revolution.&nbsp;  Nonetheless, tossing the removed Zelayas out of the country instead of into prison does not make this a coup d'etat.<br />
<br />
Lastly, I rather resent your implication that I want to avoid calling this a coup d'etat out of concern for its connotations or to excuse anything.&nbsp;  That sort of mincing dishonesty is something I vehemently oppose.&nbsp;  I disagree with calling this a coup d'etat simply because I do not find it to have been a coup d'etat.&nbsp;  Any other consideration comes after veracity.<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-07-04T04:09:53Z</published>
    <updated>2009-07-04T04:09:53Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-comment:90365</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html#comment-90365" />
    <title>Comment from Boquisucio on 2009-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Boquisucio</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Thanks Cortillaen for the input.&nbsp; The way I call it, it was a&nbsp;Military Coup d&rsquo;&eacute;tat - Period.&nbsp; One that was done in defense of their standing constitution, and one done not with the intention for the Military to keep power on to itself.&nbsp; <a href="http://www.laprensahn.com/Ediciones/2009/07/03/Noticias/Si-lo-hubieramos-dejado-estuvieramos-enterrando-un-monton-de-gente" rel="nofollow"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><strong>Even the Honduran Chief Military Legal Advisor (Col. Bayardo) called it a Coup d&rsquo;&eacute;tat</strong></span></a>.&nbsp; I wish the general readership of this blog could read Spanish.<br />
<br />
After booting Zelaya out of the country, The Military handed power to Congress.&nbsp; The rightful successor to the Presidency according to their constitution.<br />
<br />
Some may want not to use such a baggaged-filled term, and try to use euphemisms as a way to excuse the Right's actions, but it doesn't make it something other that what it was Military led Coup d&rsquo;&eacute;tat.<br />
<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-07-04T00:01:58Z</published>
    <updated>2009-07-04T00:01:58Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-comment:90364</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html#comment-90364" />
    <title>Comment from Cortillaen on 2009-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cortillaen</name>
        <uri>http://cortillaen.wordpress.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://cortillaen.wordpress.com/">
        <![CDATA[One question:&nbsp; Why is this event referred to as a coup?&nbsp; Assuming we're using &quot;coup&quot; as being short for &quot;<a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coup%20d%27%C3%A9tat" rel="nofollow">coup d'etat</a>&quot;, I don't see it being the proper term here.&nbsp; Zelaya tried to violate the constitution, the SC ordered the military to remove Zelaya in adherence to the constitution, and the constitutionally-declared next in line took over.&nbsp; The only illegal attempt to change their government was Zelaya's, while the SC, military, and Congress all abided by the constitution in stopping him.&nbsp; If there is a coup to be found, it would seem to be Zelaya's failed one.<br />
<br />
Further, constantly calling the constitutional protection of their government a coup would seem to serve only to stigmatize the protectors and lend credibility to those demanding the would-be dictator be reinstated.&nbsp; Words have power, and this one caries a very distinctly negative impression for most people.&nbsp; Is it really fair to those who defended their country to describe their actions like this, or am I missing something?<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-07-03T23:30:26Z</published>
    <updated>2009-07-03T23:30:26Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-comment:90342</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html#comment-90342" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2009-07-03</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[At least <a href="http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1120408.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>a portion of the MSM &quot;gets it&quot;</strong></a> -- now the rest of 'em need to chime in.<br />
<br />
Verrrrrrry interesting that the Judicial Activism Bunch is siding *against* the Honduran Supreme Court on this one.<br />
<br />
Eh -- maybe not so interesting after all, seeing that the Honduran Supremes are *upholding* their country's Constitution rather than trying to disassemble it.<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-07-03T12:07:12Z</published>
    <updated>2009-07-03T12:07:12Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-comment:90306</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html#comment-90306" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2009-07-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[Ummmmm -- &quot;President Mel Zelaya&quot;? Since when is Teh Won on a nickname-basis with Manuel Zelaya? Curious...<br />
<br />
The Lefties are so fearful of the military because, unless it's been co-opted into the ranks of the True Believers, it's the only force capable of preventing them from staging their *own* coup d'etat -- or of tossing it out afterwards.<br />
<br />
The Pak Army traditionally stepped in when things went too far to the Sinister Side, stabilized the country, then went back to barracks. Then-General Musharraf used his power to drag Pakistan's legal system into the 21st Century, to include advancing Women's Rights -- something that Benazhir Bhutto, the Left's Icon of Modernity, refused to do. The average Pakistani was perfectly happy having a President who was also the <em>de facto</em> commander of the Armed Forces -- the Left viewed it as an abomination, and raised the media sh*t-storm which ousted him.<br />
<br />
We all saw how well *that* went, now, didn't we?<br />
<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-07-02T17:42:38Z</published>
    <updated>2009-07-02T17:42:38Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10965-comment:90301</id>
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    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/07/bananas_militar.html#comment-90301" />
    <title>Comment from Argent on 2009-07-02</title>
    <author>
        <name>Argent</name>
        <uri>http://www.gaymilitarylife.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.gaymilitarylife.com">
        <![CDATA[The way I see it a core issue is the weakness of the civilian institutions and related to that, willingness of the general population to allow people like Zelaya to get away with it.&nbsp; Perhaps too many of them buy into the socialist hope/hype.&nbsp; Zelaya was indeed carbon copying Chavez.<br />
<br />
The military coups are not stablising.&nbsp; They are perhaps necessary last ditch efforts and always run the risk of a military leader who takes advantage of the situation which IMO has occured in Fiji where the excuses have become more and more lame over time.<br />
<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-07-02T16:28:31Z</published>
    <updated>2009-07-02T16:28:31Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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