Comments for Time for another Whatziss!

Time for another Whatziss!

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:55:01 -0600

So, who can identify the subguns in this picture of the Armory of the Swiss Guard?I've made my choices. What are yours?Here's a larger version to help you out....

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-26

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:58:34 -0600

Cricket, at some point today wash your rhetorical mouth out with soap.

Those subguns are *magazine* fed, not *clip* fed.

Clips hold bullets to ease their loading into magazines. Magazines hold bullets and position them to feed into the breech.

Damn M1 rifle, anyway. Mr. Garand's battle implement ruined the language of weaponry, forcing me to suffer greatly when people ask me for a clip.

To answer the unasked question - the M1 has an *integral* magazine. So the WWII GI loaded it using clips, which held 8 rounds each. The integral magazine held the clip and had the mechanism that kept lifting the bullets to that the bolt could strip them from the clip and feed them into the breech, and after the last round, the clip was autoejected, and went spanging away., and you inserted another clip into the magazine.

Therein lies another difference. Except for cost considerations, you didn't pick up expended clips. But you did keep ahold of empty magazines...

Here endeth the grumpiness.

Comment from Sean Maloney on 2009-04-26

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:48:01 -0600

Stockpiled Bergmans?

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-26

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 03:06:26 -0600

Well, the bizarre reason a tommy gun came to mind is probably because the Thompson submachinegun is a *hem* submachinegun.

Your inner Armorer is intuiting again...

Comment from Cricket on 2009-04-26

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:27:56 -0600

Ah...you did answer. Submachine gun. Got it. I keep thinking of tommy guns for some bizarre reason. Toddlers made them smile? Heh. How gifted can that kid be...speaking Italian at age two.
(I am kidding... it is late, I have studying to do and I can't seem to get my head around linear equations)

Comment from Cricket on 2009-04-26

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:24:16 -0600

I should have clarified it as quasi, but even then, that word is 'partial.' I was thinking more along the lines of volunteering, but not for a nation.

Back to the weapons: You say they are highly trained, so is that training ongoing once they are a member of the SG? A subgun...what is that? Does it have a clip? Yes, I am ignorant here but bear with me. Is it automatic? Semi-automatic? What is its range? Is it accurate? Easy to use? Has anyone here at the Castle ever fired one?

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-25

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 17:17:27 -0600

Storing them trigger-out protects the sights and protects the armorer's clothing from being snagged on same. It also reduces the chance of moisture accumulating in one particular spot in the barrel and letting rust set in, because the barrels are almost vertical.

Saves space, too.

The Swiss Guard *has* a quasi-military structure, but the Guards are also one of the most highly-trained security details on earth. They know their stuff.

They also are trained to remain totally deadpan around cameras, but I've got a pic of two of them grinning as a toddler came up to say "Buon giorno" in baby-talk...

Comment from Cricket on 2009-04-25

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:57:30 -0600

Ah. Is there a reason why the trigger faces outward? And obviously they have different profiles. This post led into a history lesson for the CLUs about the Swiss Guard. Eldest was gratified to know that they *could* be teenagers, and really liked the qualifications aspect of it..he said it was the closest thing to being a knight he knew of, without the structure of the military. I think he was ready to join the Swiss Army right there and then. Heh.

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-25

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:42:15 -0600

Cricket -- two different types of submachineguns, both stacked triggers-outward. SIG MKPSs are in the lower racks and (I think) Steyr MP34s in the upper one.

Good question about the items on the shelf. They're too small (and the wrong shape) to be the morions the Guards wear for official functions, but they could be the forms the morions rest on when they're in storage to keep the liners in place.

Then again, they could be giant, unwrapped Hershey's Kisses...

Comment from Cricket on 2009-04-25

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:54:18 -0600

Okay, trying to learn something here and looked at the pic several times for Interesting Stuff.
I think the other group of guns on the higher tier could be different, but since I am not an Expert, I will say the reason they could be the same is how they are stored. It looks like the weapons in the lower racks are facing one way (would that be the belly/trigger outward?) and the guns in the higher rack are not?

Next, the items on the shelf. What are those? I want to say helmets.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-25

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 08:34:40 -0600

On a purely geeky note, OFS, that is a "flammenschwert" or "flammbard" sword, meaning "flaming sword" and is most associated with the two-handed swords of the Landsknechte. Technically, a "flamberge" refers to the one-handed variety. That said - in popular usage, it's like clip and magazine - to most people, a distinction without meaning, that just drives us purists nuts.

Mind you - flambé is right in spirit if not in spelling!

Comment from Old Fat Sailor on 2009-04-25

Sat, 25 Apr 2009 04:31:40 -0600

Is that not a a flambe sword on the starboard side?-he asks showing off hs knowledge of pointy things...

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-24

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:10:48 -0600

If they work, they work, right?

Comment from Blake Kirk on 2009-04-24

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:03:56 -0600

OK, I got it. SIG MKPS. Which one site I found stated explicitly was still in the inventory at the Vatican.

It seems a bit odd that an organization which still considers itself a real protective services unit would be equipped with weapons of that vintage, But then again, how many Browning M1919's are still in service at various places in the world?

Comment from Blake Kirk on 2009-04-24

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:52:21 -0600

There are actually *two* different subguns in the picture. The upper rack is different from the lower rack.

Okay, I missed that. My bad. But I still say that the upper tier are H-S Mp43/44's.

Will work on the lower tier now.

Comment from SSG Jeff (USAR) on 2009-04-24

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:43:45 -0600

I'm just wondering how many tourists would lose sphincter control if the Swiss Guards came out at the Vatican in their jester suits and the subguns?

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-24

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:10:39 -0600

There are actually *two* different subguns in the picture. The upper rack is different from the lower rack.

Comment from Blake Kirk on 2009-04-24

Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:04:09 -0600

I'm going to take a chance and call them Hispano-Suiza MP43/44's. Which as everyone knows, is the Swiss license-built version of the Finnish Suomi Kp/-31.

Here's a picture of one with a Swiss Type 31 bayonet.