Comments for The Road to Hell...yada yada

The Road to Hell...yada yada

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 08:09:13 -0600

Having had to have actually lived under the European health "care" system, in my case in southern Holland in the late '90s, I have a visceral disgust for anyone wanting to convert our system to a socialized one. Want to know what it's like to have a national health care system? Read on.

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-14

Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:51:40 -0600

Heh. I'd have a hook instead of a left hand if I'd let the quacks at Walson Army Hospital amputate the botched bone-setting job they did in '71. Never has healed up, but it's good enough to work the collective and throttle during Emergency Governor ops.

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-13

Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:55:30 -0600

I can't remember a time when I've had poor private care. Of course it exists, medical personnel are human after all. But I don't remember having any. Navy dentistry has always been good to me, as well. Quite the opposite from medical care.

Comment from Bill Rogers on 2009-04-12

Sun, 12 Apr 2009 10:09:53 -0600

I point out to Cricket that post spinal headache is not related to ineptitude. It is related to the size and
configuration of the spinal needle supplied in the disposable spinal anesthesia kit.

He is lucky that his spinal fluid was not replaced by blood since this can cause arachnoiditis with
far reaching consequences. The putative function of the blood in the epiodural blood patch he
had was to seal the hole in the dura caused by giving the spinal anesthetic. My school of thought,
though not the only one, is to wait at least three days after the dural puncture to perform blood
patch; since the headache usually resolves without treatment in three days and because the
treatment itself is not without hazard.

I am an M.D. with many years experience as a Board Certified Anesthesiologist.
Wilpur

Comment from Cricket on 2009-04-11

Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:03:57 -0600

I would also like to add that the profit motive can be abused as well with insurance being the gift that keeps on giving. I was roped into two unnecessary surgeries on my arm simply because the first time I was taken to a university hospital in the south and was the guinea pig du jour and the second, instead of being referred to the Hughston Ortho Clinic (they treat professional athletes and soldiers from Fort Benning), I was gouged for 15,000.00. The third time was the last and my non-union has finally healed. I did go to Hughston and when my arm finally healed, for the first time in four years, I could hug my children without pain.

Comment from Cricket on 2009-04-11

Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:51:16 -0600

Dusty, I am so sorry you and your dear wife had that horrific experience. The military ain't much better than that...and I had state of the art care in Germany because I got lucky and went to the Fulda Stadtklinik rather than the local ~~Slaughter~~Krankenhaus. Ireland Army Medical Center at Fort Knox, and Madigan Army Medical Center and Do NOT get me started on Fort Lost-in-the-Woods.
I actually had a male MD tell me that the spinal headaches I was having was not caused by the ineptitude of the anesthetists, and that I should not be able to move because of them. Fortunately for me, I have a close relative who is a medical malpractice lawyer and he told me what to say.

I got a blood patch the next day and the headaches disappeared as soon as the blood replaced my missing spinal fluid.

Filing a grievance against a doctor in the military medical system is allowed. You file it with the state in which they practice.

Oh, and the doctor? He was missing his butt after the wall-to-wall counseling his superior gave him.
She was the head of OBGYN and was NOT happy with his response. Oversight does exist, but in the European system, especially in Germany, one does not question authority without being told one is arrogant and demanding. So sue me.

Comment from Casey on 2009-04-11

Sat, 11 Apr 2009 00:03:09 -0600

Shall we start bringing up some of the uglier truths about the European system, including filthy, understaffed centers in Britain, the increasingly stronger inclination towards euthenasia for both critically-ill babies and senior citizens, and the smothering control of an indifferent bureacracy?

Not to mention our cousins to the north who regularly come down here for treatment, despite the lovely socialist system they have... (rolls eyes)

Sorry, guys; y'all are used to a socialist, state-controlled society. Over here we prefer liberty to safety.

Comment from Kirk on 2009-04-10

Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:15:41 -0600

We Dutch think that is better and cheaper to divide the costs among all of us, than leave it to the individual alone.

A very nice and altruistic expression. However, why should the majority of society continually support those who can't support themselves? Certainly, there is a need for a system of welfare to assist those persons who have fallen on hard times. But, for those who choose to live off the public dole their entire lives, we should have limits in place. This holds true for socialized medicine: why should we Americans wreck our system, which provides outstanding medical care, simply to prop up others who have neither the will or inclination to provide for themselves? If someone here in the US does not have insurance, why is it they don't do everything in their power to improve their lot and acquire the means to pay for quality care? Could it be they are too busy using their limited funds to purchase cigarettes, beer, McDonalds, and a 40" LCD TV to watch "Cops" (they watch to see if they are on that particular episode)? Rather, we should support their right to stupidity and self-indulgence, thus providing them the opportunity to come face-to-face with the concept of social darwinism. We should always provide and care for those who are truly needy, and allow the others to fall by the wayside. Share the cost? No thanks. We Americans like our system the way it is...it's not perfect, but it's far superior to what Europe has. It is easy for Barry O and other politicians of his ilk, to propose such a sweeping change to health care knowing they won't suffer under it. These people understand all too well, they will always receive outstanding care as members or former members of congress or the presidency.

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-10

Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:34:07 -0600

"....just redneck NRA right wing neocons."

You rang? :)

Within the last two months, I had a drain tube put in my ear to fix a chronic ear infection which has plagued me since ~1990 and I had a deviated septum fixed. The first was contracted while on active duty with the Navy and was 'treated' at a naval hospital (understaffed, no profit motive) by a ENT who told me there was nothing he could do and that I would have to live with it. That later morphed into a chronic sinus infection which was discovered at an Air Force hospital. Despite the CT scan that showed the infection, the Physician's Assistant that treated me (no medical doctor was on duty at that hospital when I showed up) wanted to conduct a spinal tap to cover her tail....for a headache during PT caused by a sinus infection. I politely declined, signed the release paper work and left. Again, an understaffed government medical facility with no profit motive.

Fast forward nineteen years where I was referred to a civilian ENT by my private, primary care physician. It took the civilian ENT (private practice, profit motive) about five minutes to diagnose my problems and tell me what needed to be done. Here we are two months later, all the work is done, I'm much better and improving even more. Very little waiting, competent treatment by a variety of medical personnel in several different private facilities and I'm happy. Thanks to the health insurance I have through my civilian employer, I've paid about $10 out-of-pocket for each prescription I've had (everything from amoxicillin to hydrocodone). I've written a check for $104 to the ENT for the surgery on the deviated septum, another $194 to the surgical center and I'm about to pay another $238 for radiology. All %20 co-pays, which are fine with me because all this is elective and the co-payments prevent abuse of the system. Works for me, I can handle them. Compare the two. Military health care, which is nothing more than socialized medicine, and private health care. When it comes to quality and availability, you can't beat the later. Our system has problems, but nothing like the problems that would exist if Obama has his way.

P.S. Not all military medical care I've received has been crappy, but the times where I was treated well was due in large part to the military discipline found in that facility, something that does not apply in the civilian world.

Comment from eric on 2009-04-10

Fri, 10 Apr 2009 06:46:32 -0600

update: not all yanks offcourse, just redneck NRA right wing neocons.

But seriously, our system is far from perfect but this post is over the top. We have waitinglists, overstretched hospital staff which are underpaid on the downside, but indeed healthcare for all that is among the best in the Western world for a reasonable price. I pay 110 euro (135 dollar) a month for quite a heavy package. Apart from that I pay taxes to support the dep. of healthcare, which is probably the nr 2 or 3 heavy spender of the government. The real "problem" is that people get really old these days, and that there are less and less people to pay (via taxes) to support the healthcare they need. My mum just got a titanium kneebone and is already proud owner of 2 titanium hips. She is 75! Life expectancy has gone way up since the the thirties when she was born and we thank that, for a big part, to the medical world. That comes with a hefty price tag though, but who cares? We have restructured the whole system a few years back and it will not end there, because like I said there are less and less people of 20 - 65 years who are working and paying for it. We Dutch think that is better and cheaper to divide the costs among all of us, than leave it to the individual alone.

Happy Easter, and now I am going to clean my Beaumont Vitali rifle!

Comment from Maggie on 2009-04-10

Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:20:09 -0600

Josh - Go read Christopher Hitchen's take on Mother Teresa....he ripped her.

Comment from Red on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:48:23 -0600

Thanks for sharing your interweb awesomness :-)

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:42:37 -0600

Boy, Red, if there's one thing a blogger *hates* it's being linked by another blogger!

;^ )

Comment from Red on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:31:53 -0600

Hope you don't mind. I referenced your story for my blog and stole your cartoon idea because I've been following the pirate story with those somalian sea thugs.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 14:01:28 -0600

Be nice to Eric, we don't have that many visitors from Euroland and he's really pretty friendly.

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:59:35 -0600

...oh and purely by accident the restricted-access Congressional-only government clinic would a hell of a lot newer and cleaner than the public-access government clinic we'd all be using.

Perfect. Nothing like throwing the hypocrisy into the xenon spotlight to raise the public's awareness.

Right now, Congers is selling the system as one that is fair to *all* -- and praying that the details of its *own* system get a total pass from the MSM.

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:52:02 -0600

"It isn't that we treat all pregnant mothers like that in The Netherlands; just the yanks!"

Yes...we'll remember that the next time the Germans come calling. :)

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:47:03 -0600

That's pretty cold right there.

Comment from eric on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 12:45:20 -0600

It isn't that we treat all pregnant mothers like that in The Netherlands; just the yanks!

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:30:53 -0600

the unadulterated Compassion of Mother Theresa

I kind of wish just ONE single person would stand up and say, "Yeah, I knew Mother Theresa for 40 years, and she was a DICK." Not because I have anything against her. Just because it would be funny.

But I digress.

Anyway, it always seems like a perfectly reasonable and logical idea to force lawmakers to set up good systems by requiring them to be subject to that system - except there's ALWAYS a loophole. It's just like the Soviet Union. Sure, you can make EVERYBODY get the exact same pitiful salary, even the top government officials. If you force them to live with as little money as everybody else, they'll SURELY have a compelling incentive to improve the system, right? Nonsense, they'll just make their small amount of money worth vastly more by setting up stores, restricted to the elite, where everything costs little or nothing.

It wouldn't be any different if you made Congress part of the nationalized healthcare system. They would have to use the same government-employee doctors and nurses as everybody else...except that whenever a senator needed something, one of those government doctors would magically appear, somehow having no waiting list at ALL, and when he needs to use equipment or drugs, there would somehow magically be enough in the national healthcare supply chain, oh and purely by accident the restricted-access Congressional-only government clinic would a hell of a lot newer and cleaner than the public-access government clinic we'd all be using.

Comment from fdcol63 on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:16:41 -0600

As if the stories from Canada, the UK, and the Netherlands isn't bad enough, my wife's family is from Greece.

Over there, you basically have to pay bribes to nurses to provide adequate care to your family in the hospital, otherwise critical things (like feeding, washings, bandage changing, medications, etc.) get "overlooked" and they go on their breaks "early".

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:59:17 -0600

...so why are we not taking this opportunity to FIX it, instead of ruin it?

Because *we* are not in the ones holding the (ever-lighter) purse strings.

Being elected to Congers automatically confers the nurturing Wisdom of Athena, the All-Seeing omniscience of Odin, and the unadulterated Compassion of Mother Theresa upon all officeholders, so they *know* what's good for us better than we do, ourselves.

Of course, if *they* were subject to the same health care system they want to impose upon *us* -- rather than the one they gave *themselves* -- you'd see a whole lot o' fixin' goin' on, superfast.

Think Teddy Kennedy, for example, would still be alive under the system his posse is pushing?

NFWIH.

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 09:09:07 -0600

But you don't understand. Yes, you'll be sicker and die younger, but we'll all be sick TOGETHER, equitably. That's far better than being unfair, right?

The whole thing boggles the mind. We have serious problems with medical care in this country right now...so why are we not taking this opportunity to FIX it, instead of ruin it? It's a once in a lifetime chance, and we're going to shoot ourselves in the face instead.