Comments for Pushing the envelope... blogging Property Accountability

Pushing the envelope... blogging Property Accountability

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 07:21:29 -0600

Bemusing note from Lindy Kyzer, The Army Chief of Public Affairs "Blogwrangler." The Army and bloggers are still sorting out our relationship - which is far more comfy and in some ways uncritical than the traditional media, while at the same time capable of biting the hand that feed us to the tune of many stitches because we have insider knowledge that will trip our BS sensors, too. It's an evolving thing, as we all try to figure out our roles without either side getting co-opted by the other. So, Lindy sends us a note:

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:59:03 -0600

Now it posts, 5 1/2 hours later....

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:56:39 -0600

Small arms weren't deliberately dumped, they were accidentally dropped. I guess I should have made that more clear.

One guy was on the brow, leaning over the rail to look at a swan that was swimming underneath (probably about to bomb it with a pitcher of red bug juice, we hated those things) when his shotgun slipped off his shoulder and into the drink.

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 08:31:56 -0600

Small arms in the water were accidents. In Groton, the river is ~~infested~~ inhabited by swans. One guy decided to lean over the rail on the brow to look at a swan when the shotgun that was slung over his shoulder slipped off and went in the water.

Comment from R Jewell on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 08:09:00 -0600

MTOE used to mean Modified Table of Organization and Equipment.
Modified meaning different, and Organization meaning personnel, which is what allowed a young SP/5 to have an E-6 slot set up for him back in the day when you had to have a slot to get promoted into or even be boarded...........

So many stories........so little time

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 07:18:22 -0600

Why would you dump small arms into the water?

Unless of course they were direct impingement rifles...

Also, is a butt kit like an ashtray?

Comment from Old QM3 on 2009-04-09

Thu, 09 Apr 2009 01:10:31 -0600

TINS....

Having spent nearly a year at 5 knots in a 10 nm circle at a place in the Tonkin Gulf called NorthSAR with way too much time to do anything our quartermaster (marine navigators) gang calculated that the coffee cup layer on the bottom is two feet thick.

I can also personally attest to the fact that there is at least one butt kit on the bottom too. Capt. Jackson (a sailors sailor) said, "Quartermaster! There is a fire in the butt kit." Since neither he nor I smoked, and smoking on the bridge was not a good idea when he was present, I took the smoking butt kit out on the bridge wing and tossed it over the side. He grinned and pointed at the bracket which I promptly removed.

Comment from cannonball on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:41:27 -0600

MTOE = Military Table of Equipment? It is hard to advertise supply discipline when the author does not understand the Army's basic authorization documents. It is true what I was told at the beginning. After two btry XO tours, two bn XO tours, three battery commands, and a batallion command, I guarantee you that they will do what the boss checks and ignore what he does not. And I had no idea that folks did not need the SB22 or teh TA 312 anymore.

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:18:49 -0600

The Navy has the same problems with accounting for gear, although the method of loss and disposal often tends to be different. Back in the day, we were tasked with moving a lot of stuff from a shipyard barge back to the boat, which was moored aft of the barge. Sailors being sailors, it being night and there being no adult supervision around, a lot of stuff made it off the barge, albeit out of the wrong side....the side that was not next to the pier. I watched in amazement as battle lanterns, a medical scale (not sure why that was there) and other various items were float tested. Float test....test UNSAT. With glee. At another command, we had a problem with binoculars. Ya see, they don't float either. And, as controlled equipage used for navigation, the Navigator was responsible for them, which made him apoplectic when someone sicced NIS on him. The same command also couldn't keep coffee cups in stock. Attack submarines have rubber tiles or sheets on the hull which aid in sound silencing. Those tiles also provide the Petty Officer of the Deck and Pier Sentry a way to relieve boredom on the midwatch. After one finished one's cup of coffee or bug juice, one just used a fast pitch to hurl the cup against the hull to see how far one could get it to bounce. A real stud of a cup chucker could get one to bounce back to the pier. That rarely happened. The cooks were constantly ordering new cases of coffee cups. The same happened with chow. When the cooks would order something the boat animals didn't like, it would often go from the truck to the pier, be passed down the brow and then right over the side when nobody of importance was looking. Good stuff, like cases of salted peanuts, would be raided en route to the hatch and the contents squirreled away for future consumption. Small arms and ammo also ended up in the drink, although their loss was quickly apparent and divers were sent down to recover them ASAP. Considering the muck down there, they weren't always successful. There is so much stuff down in the mud around Navy piers that archeologists of the future will have a field day.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:00:45 -0600

Well, since Specialist Oropeza is currently assigned to the Black Horse, and that's where the award ceremony took place... you're now averring that they managed to have him assigned there (he wasn't with the unit when he earned the award) solely to gain the agitprop advantage?

If that's true, then, you're right.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:53:20 -0600

Jay - I think the Major's intent is to use the blogs to expand the awareness of the task force - precisely to do what you are talking about - get the people fighting the problem to provide input in an effort to fix the problem.

Build a wiki, in a sense.

Comment from RetRsvMike on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:51:21 -0600

statute of limitations, etc....

however, i would note that the Blackhorse Mafia has rather evidently seized the organs of mass media communications, what with Bergner as the big cheese, and that honking big pony patch on the podium for that last post on the youngster (Specialist Erik Oropeza) getting the DSC.

Comment from Jay Season on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:46:47 -0600

Ah, what about camouflage net sets?! They always seemed to be 100% complete during change of command inventory. Then poof - 2 months later no one could put together a complete set during an FTX. Hmmm? (I know, they all fell off during the ride out on the tank trail)

But that is trivial, compared to what units have to account for today. Leave stuff back at home station, fall in on transition equipment, combat losses, etc.

But MAJ Manning is looking for suggestions, right? The accountability issue seems to go back eons. And those on active duty now aren’t concerned with some missing camouflage net butterflies? Those who have been ‘down range’ (for real) are sure to have some common sense, highly valuable input to the major’s query?

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:08:28 -0600

And I'm sure there were uncharted isolated meteorological events occuring the area that induced an unsafe load oscillation requiring the PIC to dump the load for aircraft safety, too.

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:02:34 -0600

We had a Charlie-model gunship -- tail number 555 -- shot down near Ben Tre and the Chinook pilot slingloading it was absent-mindedly playing with the buttons on the cyclic.

He jettisoned Triple Nickle. From 2,000 feet.

Bottom line: the survey team chief asked our CO how the crew had managed to get off the ground initially, because he computed a weight-and-balance and figured 555 was a good three tons over max gross...

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:06:06 -0600

I once did a Report of Survey for a FISTV that had been lost to a fire at Fort Irwin, and noted that it seemed to contain a *lot* of gear, oddly enough, much of it not on the load plan for the vehicle and not usually found lazing about in the backs of FISTVs.

I made the HHB commander gather an example of everything on the survey and demonstrate how it was stowed in the vehicle.

The survey underwent some changes.

Comment from Pogue on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:05:26 -0600

I'm surprised that the connex wasn't mysteriously relost prior to that word getting out...

Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 14:36:25 -0600

I remember having one of those switchboards on my hand receipt when I was a platoon leader back in 1998, along with accompanying TA-1s and -312s. We actually used the 312s on occasion during training, to jack into a mag drop to talk to range control. They prefered that to radio comms.

Actually, I can see a possible use for such items, maybe, in FOB defense, to give the towers hard wire comms to the BDOC.

I remember a story back in the 90s, one of our sister companies had a connex go MIA en route back from Bosnia. Amazingly, just about every item of property that anyone in the company couldn't account for just happened to be in that connex. (Did I mention that they hadn't done a proper bill of lading when they packed it?)

The real fun came about 4 months later when the connex suddenly appeared in the battalion motor pool.

Comment from SSG Jeff (USAR) on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:45:17 -0600

Okay.... grammar nazi time:
"synchronize efforts to improvement the program" Hrumph.

That said, it made interesting reading - especially since when I was "on casual" with the HHD of a unit whose name ends in "Group" in 2003, I got to assist with a change of command inventory. Possibly because I actually knew where to find serial numbers on computers.

Short form: low 7 figure loss of accountability of equipment, much of it computer related. The unit had done a complete swap-out of PC's between deploying to A-stan and back and then to Iraq... and instead of taking the old ones off the books properly, they simply "disposed" of them. Possibly to homes, possibly to the local dumpster. Incoming company commander got to take an unscheduled trip to Baghdad in hopes of finding some of the missing stuff - which included a connex, among other things.

I ended up being the ad-hoc, untrained Supply Sergeant for the unit for a few weeks as well. Definitely taught me things about accountability - and the desirablity of having as much of your signed for stuff in one place as possible. They had stuff scattered in storage all over that base.

Comment from Chuck Simmins on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:51:52 -0600

Think of all the tow chains and MOP gear lost to combat action over the years.

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:27:56 -0600

Geez, so many stories, so many months before statutes of limitations expire...

Comment from Oldloadr on 2009-04-08

Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:10:45 -0600

I see nobody jumped in on this exiting topic... However, I can relate that when my daughter became the property custodian of the engine test facility at S********** AB, she found test equipment she had no idea what they were for. When she told me the nomenclature, I recognized the equipment as designed for the F-4 Phantom. At the time she took over that account, that base hadn't had F-4s for almost 20 years!