...decry the dangerous actions of the crew? Probably along the lines of "They have just made it more dangerous for the next ship and the pirates will be angry and violent."
Good on ya fellas. "In the water..." I like that.
Read the rest here.April 08, 2009
Associated Press
WASHINGTON - A U.S. official says the crew of an American-flagged vessel hijacked off the coast of Somalia has retaken control of the ship and has one pirate in custody.
The official said the status of the other pirates is unknown but they were reported to "be in the water." The official spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter.
The shipping company, Maersk, has scheduled a noon press conference in Norfolk, Va.
Good on ya fellas. "In the water..." I like that.
Also, I am guilty of a wee bit of national pride, since I believe that was the first U.S. flagged ship that they have attacked. :)
r/
Chris
When I heard the news it was like "hummm, didn't we do the whole 'kick the pirates butt' thing a while back?"
Threads wanders off humming '.....to the shores of Tripoli...."
Threads wanders off humming '.....to the shores of Tripoli...."
Apparently pirates have short memories...they forget the lessons of 200 years ago.
Oh well, that's a better record than most criminals.
I hope they get their crewman back...
That would definitely cause some consternation.
Yes, I know, technically that's a violation of Somali sovereignty, but considering that there isn't really a legitimate sovereign government in existence there, why honor an absurd fiction?
Ahh, my dear I think every Sailor knows what they *want* to do with a pirate. But that's not always the smartest route. What the Navy is doing now - standing by, negotiating, keeping things calm, putting a team aboard the Maersk Alabama so they can continue their journey - that is what should be done.
I don't know. Maybe.
Or maybe we should send about 30 Oliver Hazard Perrys and 20 Arleigh Burkes to the area and start putting the fear of god -- no, that's not right, the fear of the United States Navy -- in these people. After the last time the Navy did that, didn't we have about two centuries without much serious trouble from pirates? Maybe if we do it again, we'll be okay until the 23rd century. And at that point, Captain Picard can take care of business.
They could always mount a huge bubbling cauldron of molten lead on hinges welded to the gunwales...
Instead of hanging them from the yard arm, bring them back to Washington to serve as cadre for the Potomac Flotilla of the Democratische Partei Kraftfahrkorps Motorbootseinheiten Civilian National Security Force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded as the Coast Guard and Navy.
If the so-called civilized world is going to turn their back on Somalia; if they are going to leave Somalis victim of the illegal dumping of medical and possibly nuclear waste; if they are going to leave them vulnerable to other, more powerful countries violating their territorial waters after they've overfished their own....and expect them to just take....but respect some sort of Pax Americana......
as Chief Brody said "You're gonna to need a bigger boat,"
Are you saying that this piracy is some sort of impassioned protest against the injustices of the world by the Somali people?
I don't buy that for a second.
You know Josh, that's not what American might is supposed to be about. Yes, we are the greatest military power on the face of the earth. But we are also supposed to be the most just. We are also supposed to be the greatest force for good in the history of mankind.
I am not condoning piracy.
I am not questioning the awesome power of the United States Navy.
I am saying some people need to get off their high horse in regard to the matter of piracy. There are two sides to every story. This piracy didn't come out of a vacuum. Yes, CAPT Phillips needs to be rescued. Yes, this particular episode needs a quick resolution. But it is just that.....an episode......an episode in a much larger story.
For the rest of America that is now watching because of CAPT Phillips, this is a teaching moment. We shouldn't waste it in swagger and bluster.
The Maersk Alabama is not the first, nor will it be the last ship captured. Most people don't even know that up until the French took back that yacht today.....there were 14 other flipping ships under Somali pirate control to my knowledge.
Let's get past this myopic discussion (as much as I pray for CAPT Phillips safe return) and look at the bigger picture and come up with a solution that recognizes there are no angels and there are no devils.
Sorry, not buying it. That's about the same level as (say) claiming that a 16-year-old gangbanger is justified in knocking over a liquor store, or mugging people, because his mom got knocked up at 15, his baby-daddy is a pusher, and society neglected him.
...Ok. The current administration probably would say that, but they're idiots anyway. {/snerk}
The only side of the story I need to know about is that a cluster of barbarians are committing piracy on the high seas. Why they do so is irrelevant.
Are you saying somehow that the United States collectively conspired to overfish and pollute Somalia's coastal waters? I'm not talking about just one American corporation, but rather the whole populace and government of the United States.
Or are you saying that America, as a world power, was responsible for keeping Somalia's waters pristine, and for failing that, our entire civilian maritime population is subject to theft and murder?
Casey - I am saying you will never be rid of all gangbangers until you solve the problems from which it grows. That does not condone or excuse gangbangers, it just puts the actions in context.
I'm also saying that you don't need to care, but you aren't going to solve the problem unless you acknowledge that it's bigger than catching a couple of people out in the water.
Disclaimer: I am not equating black/poor/illiterate people with cockroaches. This is just an example.
That said - If you saw roaches in a dirty apartment and you slammed, whacked, sprayed, bombed them to your heart's content.....would you solve the problem?
No, the United States did not actively participate in the dumping or the fishing, but come on! Would you excuse any other authority figure who witnessed a crime and let it go? Well that's what we are saying in the Horn of Africa. We are patrolling and attempting to enforce an internationally agreed upon rule set....all the while knowing our allies have been violating those rule sets. You can't have it both ways. You can't say "We didn't hurt you, we just stood by silently." and expect anything from them.
I can't believe that anyone doesn't see it.
Josh - I'll be back for you. I have to go shower and dress and take my sister to drop off her car for servicing.
I'll toss my hat in this ring.
1. I think the fact the pirates are converging (if that's still true) on the hostage drama with their other ships... well, that's an opportunity, not a problem. It's potentially a problem for Captain Phillips, certainly, but it's an opportunity for the international forces present, as well. Risk goes with the territory.
2. I'm sympathetic to Maggie's position. We alone, given other committments and current situations, may not have the resources to deal with the underlying causes, but ignoring them completely is to continue to treat the symptoms, not the cause. It is exactly the approach gun-banners use - treat the symptom, not the cause. Then wonder why the underlying issue doesn't go away. We can at least exert oursevles diplomatically to try to remediate and ameliorate the conditions that make piracy seem a good option - included in that is to make it riskier and less profitable, but finding some way to establish some rule of law in the region would be useful. For internal *and* external actors. Hang the illegal dumpers from the same yardarms the pirates dangle from.
3. It may not be doable, and sharp pointy suppression may end up being the only tool we have. But grown-ups will progress from simple "Hulk Smash!" solutions to more full-spectrum solutions if they're within the realm of possibility.
And clearly, having tried and failed in Somalia before, we know it's a tough nut. But the fact that it's a running sore should be impetus to try other methods to solve it.
And those measures may needs be kinetic, but just like surgery is not the only option for cancer, so too the point of the sword is probably not the only option for piracy.
I'd be curious to find out if the Somali men from Minnesota are connected to the clans that practice piracy, or if they are only involved in land warfare.
When you step on a cockroach or lay down poison traps, you're not doing it because the roaches' actions are wrong or because you need to punish them. You don't condemn bugs for being bugs, they're not responsible for their actions. You just kill them because that's the most convenient way to get rid of them. These pirates are people who consciously chose to be criminals and they are responsible for their actions.
It is viscerally satisfying to smash and burn. I understand that. But it's a waste of time and money unless you have a plan to prevent future attacks.
I want CAPT Phillips back, alive. I place great value on a single human life. CAPT Phillips does too because he deliberately placed himself in that position to save his crew.
If smashing them would gaurentee CAPT Phillips safe return I would be all for it. But it is risky. The French have shown us that.
If smashing them would stop future attacks I would be all for it. But it won't. The French have shown us that too.
We need to change the whole dynamic in that area, which means enforcing all the laws of the sea (and no this is not to advocate LOST, I am not a fan). We need to be fair to all the parties involved. Somalia is a failed state where well over half the population is illiterate and starving. We have to step up and take a mature stand. Yes there should be punishment, but it should be measured. this isn't Israel and the Palestinians.
If we pull back and act rationally and not out of wrath, we can actually have a positive outcome here. But if we just start playing "whack a mole" the problem will not be solved.