Comments for A Whatziss!

A Whatziss!

2009-04-11T16:00:19Z

Boquisucio submits this picture and asks us to identify the weapon. Ready? Set? Go!

Comment from Fishmugger on 2009-04-14

2009-04-14T12:55:16Z

And...nobody better make the...wop, wop, wop sound.

Copi il tuti copi.

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-14

2009-04-14T12:14:50Z

Just for fun, here's the auto-translation:

"Designed in 1901 by engineer Joseph Perrino artillery, was the first automatic weapon Italian design (weighing 27 kg). In 1910, as amended and referred to as "lightweight" (17 kg), after some good tests, was adopted by the Savoy with the Maxim model used since the same size. In this way it was intended to reward a national patent and the Italian production. It was powered by shippers metal plate 25 shots each (a particular stock hopper could hold five shippers ready for the shot, add down to achieve a continuous fire. The circulation of the cooling was ensured by pumping from long-recoil movement of the barrel within the sleeve. The theoretical rate of fire was 450 strokes per minute. It was distributed in very limited quantities, while the quality far superior to any other machine gun adopted."

It looks like it could be the same gun with a shorter barrel to make it more portable. And of course HUGE sights...

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-14

2009-04-14T12:03:38Z

Well done, Tom! There appears to be nothing in english on the 'net about that gun, either. I'd tried some desultory picking about in italian, but, my italian sucks.

And the only italian guy I used to know (a source for WWI grenades) email bounced.

Boq - I think you have your answer!

Comment from BillT on 2009-04-14

2009-04-14T06:09:40Z

Betcha tom's got it -- Perrino HMG 1908. Scroll allllll the way down the page. The sights may be a post-1910 LMG conversion and my Eyetalian MilSpeak is a tad rusty, because I *think* the description says it also used a 25-round metal feed-strip, which somehow doesn't sound right, given the configuration.

Comment from Grimmy on 2009-04-13

2009-04-14T02:33:29Z

Try this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSLbwYXiTpU

Browning M1917 clone. Name for it was CKM wz. 30

Left hand feed. Cloth belt. Water cooled.
If the sight block is stripped off the upper receiver...

Closest I've found, so far, on the uniform points to either Italian national or uniforms patterned on same which were rather common in the Balkan parts of the Austro-Hungarian empire.
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6348/cappellodeglialpinidellbx7.jpg is close to the device on the head gear pictured above, but the wings appear too thick and not up-swept enough to my eye.

Comment from tom on 2009-04-13

2009-04-14T02:05:14Z

Mitragliatrice Perrino o Perino mod.1908

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-13

2009-04-13T19:16:14Z

If I have indeed correctly identified a gun that stumped The Armorer of Argghhh, do I get Honorary Armorer status or something?

That's a bridge we'll cross when we come to it. Right now, I don't see any geographic obstacles that would merit that level of engineering effort.

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-13

2009-04-13T16:52:51Z

If I have indeed correctly identified a gun that stumped The Armorer of Argghhh, do I get Honorary Armorer status or something?

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-13

2009-04-13T16:19:44Z

Doesn't have the oil sump nor feed mechanism of a Schwarlose. That's was my second hypothesis, with the Fiat-Revelli being my third.

I've looked at the Skoda guns, too. Not one of them.

Not a Maxim-derivative, either.

I'm beginning to think Josh and Eric are right... it's a movie gun!

Comment from Boquisucio on 2009-04-13

2009-04-13T16:06:38Z

I first forwarded this snap to Massa John, because I wasn't sure what it was either. Its receiver kinda resembled a Schwarzlose, but I didn't know.

Surely if anyone could I.D. it, it would be him. I just didn't know that I would Stump the Chump.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-13

2009-04-13T12:54:25Z

Grimmy, that was my fleeting first working hypothesis. I do not believe it to be a Vickers. If it is, then it was been modified to feed from the left, vice the right (though, not knowing the symbol on the soldier's cap, I can allow for the picture to be reverse-image) - but if it's reverse-image, then the fusee spring is missing. But more telling, the Vickers belt feeds in on the upper side of the revciever, not the lower side - and neither the Vickers or Maxim firing locks would function as designed in that configuration. Additionally, the Vickers being essentially a product-improved Maxim, the spent casings eject, with some energy in the are where the fore-grip is.

I don't know what it is (though a dismounted tank gun is my best guess thus far) but I'm certain it's not a Vickers - at least not a model I'm aware of.

The water jacket argues against it being an aircraft gun - though the germans, at the end of the war when Luftwaffe bombers were pretty much worthless flying gunnery targets, the did take aircraft machine guns, put waterjackets on them, and issue them to ground forces.

Comment from Grimmy on 2009-04-13

2009-04-13T06:33:47Z

I'm guessing its a Vickers Medium Machine Gun modified for use by Alpini troops in WW2.

The Italians were allies during WW1, so there's no reason to assume they'd not have either been given stocks of weapons from other allied countries, or given license to manufacture them.

Reasons for my guess...

Receiver block appears too long to be a maxim. The ammo belt that shows has already been fired and appears to be a cloth belt, that means it's not a Browning. The extension of the barrel in front of the water jacket appears to be common in Vickers guns.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-12

2009-04-13T02:39:13Z

Eric, I'm afraid that's a -10 for spelling.

Comment from NevadaDailySteve on 2009-04-12

2009-04-13T02:28:28Z

It's a collaboration between the Germans and Italians, the 1932 Spaetzle-Schpitter Mk II. Designed to feed hungry troops from 1,000 yards away one loading of 50 pounds of flour and 10 gallons of water would feed a company of soldiers in less than 10 minutes. One downside was that after about 25 or 30 servings (called rounds) of spaetzle the Mk II tended to overcook the spaetzle which in turn caused 5% casualties in the troops being fed. The other drawback was the lack of qualified gunner/cooks which resulted in even more casualties, and even death on occassion.

What caused the Mk II to be discarded however was an unfortunate incident with Il Duce himself when a misfired spaetzle lodged in his left nostril. After that the whole production run of Spaetzle-Schpitters was scrapped and none were ever seen again.

Comment from eric on 2009-04-12

2009-04-12T19:23:24Z

it isn't a Fiat Revelli mg or a Swiss MG 11 or any other ww1 mg I know. I doubt it is pre 1914, because it looks to sophisticated for that and by 1918 real submachineguns were already in use, making this thing outdated. arghhhhhhhhhhhhh

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-12

2009-04-12T16:42:29Z

If you look closely, you'll observe that it isn't Chico Marx playing an Italian soldier; it is in fact Teller playing Chico playing an Italian soldier.

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Good eye!

Comment from Eric Wilner on 2009-04-12

2009-04-12T16:28:32Z

Josh almost gets it, but he has the date wrong.
If you look closely, you'll observe that it isn't Chico Marx playing an Italian soldier; it is in fact Teller playing Chico playing an Italian soldier. The film (working title: Operation Grapefruit) is due to be released late this summer, and features several dozen of today's comedians playing 1930s comedians battling an extraterrestrial horde.
The prop gun is modified from one made, oddly enough, in Spain, in 1973, for a movie which was never filmed. Note the polyethylene belt carrying 9mm Largo blanks; this is a dead giveaway, despite the dressed-up barrel. The effect when Teller/Chico fires it is... well... you'll just have to wait for the leaked video on YouTube.

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-12

2009-04-12T05:17:36Z

Josh - one would wonder why the Italian, or possibly Austrian, soldier would be involved with the development of John Browning's masterpiece?

Yes, one would wonder. Along with wondering what the hell one is looking at in the first place. My best guess is that, in this film, the Austro-Italian Empire has allied with America against the mutant alien zombie forces.

Comment from Glen on 2009-04-11

2009-04-12T04:56:14Z

It's a 1908 model of a Stanley nail gun that was produced it Italy.

Because of the initial velocity of 35 meters/sec squared and a tax of three beer pre/hour. It required a specially trained "Regular Force Putty Commando" to operate it from 20 meters and closer, only after it was deployed on Friday and thee thousand "Hail Marries" where pronounced in the village.

Since it was so new it required a very exacting safety routine. It went as follows:

The first IA and Stoppage. Consisted of:
Drop the dam thing, go back for the forth beer.

The second IA and Stoppage. Consisted of:
The hell with number one. Repeat number one until no beer is left.

The Third IA and Stoppage. Consisted of:
The hell with this, lets go home for more beer because the tavern is out of beer due to so many IA's and Stoppages.

Repeat as necessary!

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-11

2009-04-12T01:28:50Z

Though, with what appears to be stars on his collar points, I'm pretty sure he's an Italian soldier.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-04-11

2009-04-12T01:26:02Z

Josh - one would wonder why the Italian, or possibly Austrian, soldier would be involved with the development of John Browning's masterpiece?

Comment from Foxfier on 2009-04-11

2009-04-12T00:45:19Z

*looks carefully at the weapon*

In my expert opinion, yes, it's a weapon. May just be a bludgon, though..... *squints*

/silly

Comment from Josh on 2009-04-11

2009-04-12T00:13:23Z

Uhhh...

Prop gun from a BAD 1930s science fiction film.

Or maybe a predecessor (or experimental evolution) of the M1919?

Comment from Toluca Nole on 2009-04-11

2009-04-11T23:51:18Z

Wow! Robin Hood kicked arse!

Comment from Martin Morehouse on 2009-04-11

2009-04-11T22:42:45Z

I like the tall sights so the gunner can use his sling from the armpit supported position. Is he tickling the sear through the bottom of the reciever to fire it?

Comment from eric on 2009-04-11

2009-04-11T17:40:02Z

is this from the original demo tape of that Sylvester Stallone film? It isn't a Schwarzlose or Maxim.

Comment from RetRsvMike on 2009-04-11

2009-04-11T16:18:39Z

Tyrolian Alpengeschpritz, Mk II.