tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461- 2012-03-24T15:21:57Z We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 Movable Type 4.12 tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461 2009-03-02T12:34:22Z 2009-03-02T13:36:54Z

The Armorer http://www.thedonovan.com Another little plus ça change post...

So, we have this helmet.  Of a style called the armet, and in this case, an English example of the Milanese-style armet, from one of Henry VII's tournament armors held by the Royal Armouries museum.



Fast forward, 1917.



Cute, ainnit?

And, fast-forward to today.  Oh, sure, new materials, and we've hung a lotta bells and whistles on it...  but same basic premise.  Same basic function.


]]> tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85077 Josh
And/or made the entire thing lighter somehow.
]]> 2009-03-04T14:56:35Z 2009-03-04T14:56:35Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85023 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com
Due to the angular momentum imparted by the whipping of the head when driving cross country, as well as compaction damage caused by the weight when hitting bumps, etc.

Adding lots of stuff to the helmet just makes that worse, the farther from the center of gravity you get. ]]> 2009-03-03T20:23:44Z 2009-03-03T20:23:44Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85019 Josh Perhaps we missed it - but Natick *has* been working the full face helmet, with HUD, and it hasn't worked out so well thus far.

See?  Like I was saying.  Give it time and money, and we'll get there.

And yes, it *is* legitimate to have a trade-off analysis done on cost versus value-added.

Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

But it also doesn't mean we quit looking.

Certainly true!

But helmets designed for fighter pilots of helo crews, and even tankers, aren't necessarily going to be a good idea for Grunts.

Yep, that's why it has to be specifically redesigned for the application.

A not-insignificant chunk of the Armorer's disability paycheck comes from the damage to his neck from wearing a kevlar helmet and doing a lot of cross-country driving, which had a significant impact on the structures of my neck.

Was there also TBI-induced third-person-self-references?  Ahahaha I kid, I kid...so was the damage due to the added weight of the helmet strapped to your head?  Or does it have to do with banging the rim against stuff?

]]> 2009-03-03T19:40:43Z 2009-03-03T19:40:43Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85017 Grimmy Helmets should still have a separate shell and liner. How's a grunt supposed to wash his feet and skivvy drawrs in his pot, otherwise? 2009-03-03T19:24:36Z 2009-03-03T19:24:36Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85007 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com
And yes, it *is* legitimate to have a trade-off analysis done on cost versus value-added.

Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

But it also doesn't mean we quit looking.

But helmets designed for fighter pilots of helo crews, and even tankers, aren't necessarily going to be a good idea for Grunts.

And let us not forget the unintended consequences and costs (if aught else, to more fully understand same).  A not-insignificant chunk of the Armorer's disability paycheck comes from the damage to his neck from wearing a kevlar helmet and doing a lot of cross-country driving, which had a significant impact on the structures of my neck.]]> 2009-03-03T15:31:04Z 2009-03-03T15:31:04Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85006 Josh
Meh.  "Good enough" is the enemy of ever inventing anything new.

We've had full-face helments available on the civilian market since well before I fisrt put on a uniform in 1978. So why do you think we aren't using them? I KNOW for a fact that the Army will buy civilian crash helmets and issue them to soldiers for use when it's the best solution to a given problem, 'cos I've seen it done. So what makes you think the guys up at Natick haven't already looked at this?

Full face helmets on the civilian market aren't really designed for this.  That's the whole point of what I'm saying.  And I'm pretty sure the guys up at Natick ARE looking into it.  But they're probably getting hamstrung from bean counters on one side who don't want to pay for anything new, and luddites on the other side who don't want to adopt anything new.

We got a WHOLE lot fonder of the Fritz helmet real quick after word about that incident spread.

That's exactly my point!  The first time some Marine avoids getting his face burned off or his nose shot off because he's wearing his full face helmet, they'll probably get very popular very quickly.
]]> 2009-03-03T15:20:23Z 2009-03-03T15:20:23Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85003 toad 2009-03-03T14:49:40Z 2009-03-03T14:49:40Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:85002 Blake Kirk
Have you ever heard the old saw "The best is the enemy of good enough?"

What you have here, sir, is a solution in search of a problem.  You are extrapolating from systems designed for a very specific set of circumstances, and trying to shoehorn those systems into a VERY different set of circumstances for which they were never designed.

We've had full-face helments available on the civilian market since well before I fisrt put on a uniform in 1978.  So why do you think we aren't using them?  I KNOW for a fact that the Army will buy civilian crash helmets and issue them to soldiers for use when it's the best solution to a given problem, 'cos I've seen it done.  So what makes you think the guys up at Natick haven't already looked at this?

I was in the the 82nd when we first got issued the Kevlar helmet.  We were the first unit in the Army to get them, and we hated the durned things.  Right up to the point where a kid in one of the rifle companies in 2-325 Infantry in Grenada took a direct hit in the helmet from an AK fired from about 15 meters and got up and walked away.  We got a WHOLE lot fonder of the Fritz helmet real quick after word about that incident spread.

That specific helmet, by the way, with the 7.62mm bullet wedged in the fabric, was still in the Division Museum at Bragg the last time I checked.  Jack Trobaugh, who was the Division Commander then, had to come down to our brigade area in person and talk the poor kid who was wearing it when he got hit into giving it up so that the boffins at Natick could examine it before it went to the museum.  The kid, understandably enough, thought of it as "the lucky helmet that saved my sorry arse," and was very reluctant to let it go.]]> 2009-03-03T14:46:25Z 2009-03-03T14:46:25Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84981 Josh two little speakers

I meant two little mics.  Damnit.  I need an edit function...
]]> 2009-03-02T23:55:59Z 2009-03-02T23:55:59Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84980 Josh [Blake Kirk]too limiting to the peripheral vision

That one's easy! Just make sure the entire field of vision is covered by the transparent part instead of the opaque part. In fact, covering the entire field of vision with transparent hardware makes for a very convenient opportunity to add a HUD, which really could make individual infantrymen a whole lot more effective. We put all that fancy networking equipment in the Strykers, why not output it straight onto the soldiers' views? There's probably a thousand other ways it could help too...

[Blake Kirk]and it limits hearing

It really should include earpieces and a mic so that everybody can communicate via radio, so it would be easy to add two little speakers on the outside of the helmet to pipe in the same sound that the user would hear naturally, mixed with the radio, or maybe with the ability to briefly cut out the outside noise to hear comms better.

[Blake Kirk]I'm not even going to address the issue of additional heat stress.

I'm not exactly sure how that would work, because our solution in auto racing is to attach a one to two inch diameter flexible hose to the helmet and mount the other end of the hose on the outside of the car. It mostly depends on moving forward at very high speeds all the time. The only ideas I can think of would be bad for weight and durability, I'd have to work on that one...

[John]breathing issues

I never have trouble breathing in mine. Hell, if you wanted, you could probably use it as an opportunity to build a respirator right into it and be a step ahead on your CBRN precautions.

[John]And more weight

Proper use of materials will of course be vital here. It can't be a block of cast iron...
]]> 2009-03-02T23:52:28Z 2009-03-02T23:52:28Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84978 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com 2009-03-02T22:02:43Z 2009-03-02T22:02:43Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84977 JimC
"I am besieged with a thousand or more Mexicans under Santa Anna. I have sustained a continual Bombardment and cannonade for 24 hours and have not lost a man. The enemy has demanded surrender at discretion otherwise the garrison is to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken. I have answered the demand with a canon shot and our flag still waves proudly over the wall. I shall never surrender or retreat. Then I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism, of everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid with all dispatch. The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily and will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a soldier who never forgets what is due his honor and that of his country - VICTORY OR DEATH.

- William Barrett Travis, Lt. Col Commander

March 2nd is TEXAS INDEPENDENCE DAY
]]> 2009-03-02T21:47:55Z 2009-03-02T21:47:55Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84975 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com
And ditto on the runners being elsewhere around post.]]> 2009-03-02T20:57:34Z 2009-03-02T20:57:34Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84973 Casey http://www.thegantry.net/blog Star Wars reference myself, with respect to the above WW1 helmet. Then I followed John's link, and -Holy Smokes!- the visor-up shot looks dead on a Rebel Alliance helmet.

I shouldn't be surprised, considering Han "he shot first!" Solo's blaster was a Mauser, and the Stormtrooper blaster rifle was an MG-34...

]]> 2009-03-02T20:51:42Z 2009-03-02T20:51:42Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84971 Blake Krk
Echo the recommendation on the Patton Museum at Knox.  Unfortunately, some of their neater exhibits, like the fully-operable Jgpz-38, aren't on normal display due to lack of space, and instead are stored in various older motor pools elsewhere on the post.]]> 2009-03-02T20:50:52Z 2009-03-02T20:50:52Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84969 AFSister My Mom and I took the boys there a couple of years ago.  Awesome.  Incredible collection of pointy-stuff and things to prevent the pointy-end from penetrating your body.]]> 2009-03-02T18:52:18Z 2009-03-02T18:52:18Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84968 AFSister Are you sure that isn't Sergeat B in his Godzilla get-up? 2009-03-02T18:49:52Z 2009-03-02T18:49:52Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84967 Argent http://www.aaronpoeze.com/
You can't see a damn thing.  You can't hear a damn thing, they can't take any more than a light tap, they cost a fortune, are too hot and weigh a tonne and yet they are still useful.
]]> 2009-03-02T18:09:31Z 2009-03-02T18:09:31Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84965 John (not the armorer)
2.  Trivia-  During WW1 period, most of the U.S. experimental helmets were the work of Bashford Dean, then curator (and restoration expert) at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.  That explains some of the very traditional concepts tried.  Of course, the fact that the human head to be protected had not changed much over the centuries made it a pretty logical move as well.
]]> 2009-03-02T17:50:56Z 2009-03-02T17:50:56Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84961 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com Okay, I admit it, the whole thing was an excuse to repost, in a larger size, the Green Monster mask. 2009-03-02T17:10:46Z 2009-03-02T17:10:46Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84957 Pogue http://ngpogue.blogspot.com
Link

]]> 2009-03-02T16:27:22Z 2009-03-02T16:27:22Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84956 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com
Natick keeps working on it, however.  I've seen some protoype helmets that are Starship Trooperish, but the troopers weren't too fond of 'em, even when the sensor feeds worked properly.]]> 2009-03-02T16:15:54Z 2009-03-02T16:15:54Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84955 Blake Kirk
Nice idea, but the infantry won't buy it:  too limiting to the peripheral vision, and it limits hearing.  Both of which will cost lives in combat..  Heck, the current Army Combat Helmet arguably provides less protection than the PASGT  helmet it replaced, but adopting the ACH eliminated several problems with the PASGT and made our soldiers more effective.

I'm not even going to address the issue of additional heat stress.]]> 2009-03-02T15:58:53Z 2009-03-02T15:58:53Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10461-comment:84945 Josh my SA05 Bell racing helmet paintballing the other day instead of using the provided facemask...

Ahahaha really though, I've been thinking for quite a while that we really should have full helmets for our infantry by now, it could really reduce the facial injuries and such.
]]> 2009-03-02T14:27:32Z 2009-03-02T14:27:32Z