previous post next post  

I support Earth Hour --

-- because of the Aftermath.

For anyone intending to support Earth Hour by giving up 'lectricity for an hour, y'all will need to adhere strictly to the intent of the protest.

*No* electricity usage. None.

Meaning unscrew all those cutsie curlicue "Earth Friendly" fluorescent bulbs -- the ballast uses a trickle charge to keep 'em workable.

Meaning unplug all your appliances -- everything. Yup, that includes nukers, 'puters, printers, TVs, radios, VCRs, DVD players, smoke detectors, burglar alarms, stoves, carbon monoxide detectors, telephones, hot water heaters, furnaces, radon detectors, washer/dryer combos, crack-addict intrusion detectors -- everything. They all use a trickle charge for that nice, convenient Instant-On feature and/or digital time readout.

Meaning remove those rechargeable batteries from everything -- ya need 'lectricity to charge 'em, right? No cellphones, tweets, pagers, rechargeable flashlights -- take 'em all out.

Then, after Earth Hour has elapsed, you'll need to find your way around a dark, cold house, without using candles (keep that carbon footprint miniscule!) while those of you who use gas can wonder if you remembered to shut off the gas main as you re-light the pilots and those of you who are all-'lectric can wonder if the sudden surge from all those appliances going on TimeZoneWide will pop the breakers in the local co-generation plant. Speaking of Time, unless you have an analog windup watch hidden somewhere in the sock drawer, you'll have to sit down and *count* each of the 3600 seconds to make sure Mama Gaia reaps the full benefit of your gesture -- *no* digital watches allowed..

And remember -- if you *do* have an emergency during Earth Hour, you can't call anybody for help.

Me? I already do my bit  -- the generators crap out over here at least twice a night...

71 Comments

I'm going to light up the house like it's Christmas, and celebrate Human Achievement Hour.  I will work on my computer, that has more calculational ability than the entire Apollo program, listen to music on CDs, possibly watch a movie on a DVD, make a call on my cell phone, watch my motion-sensor outdoor lights switch on to point out a trespasser, and not die of appendicitis, food poisoning, or cholera.  And if any sanctimonious twit complains about my ecological crime, I will  fire up my DEATH RAY which has a carbon footprint roughly the size of Manhattan.
 
And if you really want to annoy the neighbors, there's nothing like a pretty good war movie made by some seventh graders.

The dialogue needs work, but they did a -- heh -- bang-up job with the special effects!
 
I'm home alone this weekend.  But, maybe, during "Earth Hour", I'll make a point to turn on all 4 TVs, turn on all the lights in every room, leave the refrigerator and freezer doors open, do my laundy (and make sure I'm far enough along to be running both the washer and the dryer), and I can't seem to stay away from the 'puter, so...

I was pleased that the State of of Education here in Texas (after a debate on whether or not to mention the flaws in the theory of evolution) will now require that all competing scientific theories (no matter the subject) be presented.  Yeah!  Now I won't be forced to indoctrinate my future students into the bogus theory of anthropogenic global warming!
 
Thanks to the lousy wiring in this house, I too  experience Earth Hour on a regular basis. :P

And God bless those kids' parents for letting them destroy the back yard! That was great!
 
As my dad once remarked to a neighbor who mentioned the divots in the yard my sibs and I created while playing grabass football -- "We're not raising grass, we're raising *kids*.
 
That video is epic.  What film is it from, "Enemy at the Gates of 1283 E. McGovern Dr."?  I especially like the shell impacts done by someone tossing handfuls of dirt.  Better acting than a lot of Hollywood too.
 
[bad cat robot]I'm going to light up the house like it's Christmas, and celebrate Human Achievement Hour. I will work on my computer, that has more calculational ability than the entire Apollo program, listen to music on CDs, possibly watch a movie on a DVD, make a call on my cell phone, watch my motion-sensor outdoor lights switch on to point out a trespasser, and not die of appendicitis, food poisoning, or cholera. And if any sanctimonious twit complains about my ecological crime, I will fire up my DEATH RAY which has a carbon footprint roughly the size of Manhattan.

[Miss Ladybug]I'm home alone this weekend. But, maybe, during "Earth Hour", I'll make a point to turn on all 4 TVs, turn on all the lights in every room, leave the refrigerator and freezer doors open, do my laundy (and make sure I'm far enough along to be running both the washer and the dryer), and I can't seem to stay away from the 'puter, so...


That's odd, I had PRECISELY the same idea when I heard about this no electricity hour on the radio...great minds think alike?

 
Grenade bursts, not shell impacts.

Sheesh.

Let a gurl post on a Redleg bolg and she goes all artillerist 'n' stuff on ya...
 
Silly hellaflopper pilot.  Those are *clearly* shell impacts, as defined by the artistic standards of this oevere.  See, a grenade doesn't even dent the grass.  There is smoke, and an explosion, and your evil suburb-invading, back-yard-oppressing German collapses and dies.  This happens many times (and apparently to the same German, I guess we were recycling actors a good bit but it does make it confusing for the viewer).  The dirt tossing was from shells.  Pthbbbbbbt. 
 
You have obviously been distracted by the blinking light from the open refrigerator door. Note that, immediately prior to any of the upwelling dust-gouts, a fairly realistic approximation of a German M24 stick grenade -- suitably scaled for seventh-grade grenadiers -- has landed in Good Guy territory and been returned to its original owner, posthaste.

Hence, whence, thus, ergo, q.e.d. -- grenade.

Pthbbbbbbt. .

I *love* it when you use your tongue...
 
...as defined by the artistic standards of this oevere.

"Oeuvre" -- this time, it really *is* all about u...

 
I enjoyed my anthropogenic global warming induced blizzard as I drove back from giving away tens of thousands of Rotary dollars to some pretty cool young folk - and came home to find SWWBO throwing pots on her electrically operated pottery wheel, and I think I'll turn on my bench grinder just to be contrary while watching the war movie.

Okay, back.

I vote the kid a an Oscar for sound track editing, and echo the sentiments that some of their special effects were really darn good.
 
AFSiiiiiiis! BCR and I can't keep this party going all by ourselves, yanno!

Ooooh.

All by ourselves?

Hey, doll...
 
If said stick grenade (which I did admire, along with the throwing technique) has been returned to sender, why is the dirt fountain in good guy territory, HMMMMM?  I mean, can't you tell the difference between our stalwart heroes and those schweinhunden? (yes, well, okay, I think sometimes they switched sides for different scenes due to aforementioned actor shortage, but *still*).

I *love* it when you use your tongue...
I don't care if it is time for your yearly bath, you get to use the shower like everyone else.  And use soap this time!
 
The bench grinder is too loud.  I'm gonna turn it off and go climb into the hot tub.
 
...why is the dirt fountain in good guy territory, HMMMMM?

Because the neighbors just re-sodded the rear quarter-acre.

...you get to use the shower like everyone else.

Only if you clean the cat hair out of the drain, first. Last time, I thought I'd caught 24-hour alopecia.

 
Yay, hot tub!  Better check it for yard germans first.  They are worse than gnomes.
 
What?  I can't hear you over the two pumps recirculating and reheating the water - not to mention the bubbles...
 
Meaning unscrew all those cutsie curlicue "Earth Friendly" fluorescent bulbs -- the ballast uses a trickle charge to keep 'em workable.
Eh?  I keep those screwed into ordinary fixtures, which get turned off with ordinary switches, which just interrupt the circuit when they're in the "off" position.
'Course, ya might manage to fool a few Greenies with that line....

Were I inclined to observe the silly event, I'd just turn off the main breaker for an hour -- yes, I do own a wind-up watch.  My computers wouldn't mind; they're on UPSes... which would then draw a buncha power to recharge their batteries when the power came back on, just to add to the load from all the refrigerator compressors starting up at the same time.

Actually, I find myself wondering about the effects on the grid of a sudden drop in consumption.  I know there'd be trouble if everyone turned their main breakers back on at the same time; what about turning them all off at the same time?  Maybe the power would be off for a lot more than an hour.
 
I seem to recall some interesting consequences resulting from a toilet-flushing protest on the Left Coast a few years back...
 
@BillT, But the idea was so good on paper, until we find out the *minor* details. The paper was used *toilet paper*!
 
Bill, an interesting post. I'm a journalist that was considering trying out your total turn off the breakers thing merely to see if I could do it. I'm also young, so I rely much on electricity, most especially technology like my laptop. Whether it's at work or at home, I'm always on the thing (unless I'm lifting weights at the gym, where I don't even use my wrist watch ... I count my 1-minute rests in my head and then it's back to deadlifts).

But I suppose what I'm wondering from you is ... don't you feel like your post is a bit snarky and bitter? You sound lonely. And another question: Even without your over-doing it claim (which I want to do!), turning off the lights --- 1 billion people turning off the lights is the goal apparently of this Earth Hour thing I just read about today --- would still be a lot of energy not consumed.

But thanks for the post. I actually had no idea about these micro charges you're discussing, and so that means I'll have to tap the breakers to do this.

... and I'm reading up on how to read the night sky to tell time. Cripes.

Still have to figure out what I'm going to do for an hour with no 'lectricity, but it should make for an interesting blog post, right?

If you consider responding, I may very well quote you, by the way, for full disclosure.

 
Bill,  a follow-up if you're still around, I know it's late where you are.

Rather than unplugging things, couldn't I merely switch off all the breakers?
 
Bill~

Sam is my cousin's husband.  He's cool.  I explained to him on facebook where you are and why...  And, I guess I should still explain you are snarky a lot ;-)
 
Snerk.  Sam, I am guessing you are new to this blog.  BillT is many things, but lonely isn't one of them.  He's got a lot of friends all over the world.

I must have missed the bitterness you see.  All I noticed was a number of Inconvenient Truths(tm).  Turning off the lights for an hour saves a very miniscule amount of energy because we have made them so efficient.  Mostly Earth Hour is about *appearing* to care about the earth, and doing what the cool kids are doing.  For example, those Prius hybrid cars -- if you consider them from start to finish, the batteries, the fact that the batteries need to be completely replaced every 2-3 years (full of nasty heavy metals, too) -- you are being more eco-conscious if you buy a used conventional car. But that used Honda doesn't have bragging rights at the co-op.

Do you know where your electricity comes from?  Will your source of electricty really stop generating power just because you turn off your lights?  Do you know what an amperage surge is, and why it could be a bad thing for the power grid?  Are you really aware of how much energy it took to create your laptop?  Not just that individual laptop, but the whole process from the very first huge clumsy semiconductor gate, big as your thumb, to the 64-bit dual core chip that lets you view YouTube videos over your wireless connection?

Bill is trying to make a point.  Earth Hour is silly.  People do it to be noticed, and because they know at the end of the hour the lights will go back on.  They will stay warm and dry, the X-box will work, and the indoor plumbing will still be there.  Ask 'em to give it up permanently.  Otherwise they are just like Marie Antoinette at Trianon with the perfumed sheep.
 
Hi, Miss L -- Sam raised a reasonable point in a reasonable manner, so I hadn't intended to do a snarky reply in any case.

Just a quick backbrief, Sam -- I've spent most of the last two years in parts of the world where electricity is a luxury, not a commodity. Power outages -- where electrical power grids exist at all -- are more common than power availability, and the idea of people who rely on receiving *some* power voluntarily relinquishing it to advance the political agenda of someone a half world away struck me as particularly ludicrous.

Especially, since the latest population stats are in, I doubt that there are a billion people on the planet who are in a position to turn their lights off voluntarily. Check the list of the most-populous countries, where they're located, and -- if you're still curious -- google the status of electrical availability.

Now, all that said, I'm not anti-conservation, anti-pollution remediation, or anti-Mama Gaia. What I *am* against is people who lack the knowledge and understanding of what goes on in the world -- and how the other 6.7 billion live -- making vast pronouncements based on their own assumptions.

I'm in northern Iraq -- I've had well-educated people who *know* where I am e-mail me and ask if I could see the Afghan border. I've had well-educated people ask if English-speaking Iraqis understood me when I spoke English. And no, I wasn't snarky when I replied to them.

Okay, a bit of ramble and a bit of answer -- questions sufficiently answered?

And no, I'm not lonely. Ask any of the Ladies...
 
A thorough response from all. My questions were pointed because it's what I do for a living and I was hoping for some good responses. I was not let down and I appreciate it.

But ... to be clear ... is all the stuff in my house going to blow up if I turn the breakers off and then back on?

It seems as if I've done it before and nothing bad came of it.

I totally intend on doing this! My initial idea is to bust out the git fiddle and croon away for an hour. And, oh yes, I've got the material!

Neat blog here.

If you're interested, I've answered your challenge over at The Politics Blog, where I work, in Bellingham, Wash.


http://blogs.bellinghamherald.com/politics/?p=1340

Yes, this is what my Saturday is all about, what with the wife at a church auction.

 
Whoooops -- sorry, Sam, just caught your other comment.

Right you are, popping the breakers will work. Remember the caveat, though -- if you've got *anything* that uses gas, the pilot light is liable to go out, and the igniters are electric.
 
We're in an apartment free of gas, save perhaps mine (blush).

I'll be good to go.

Honestly, though, I'm so technilogically dependent this will be like a guy without his NFL, a woman without her lipsticks and a kid without his Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle.

But I won't shoot my eye out.

 
Heh. Wailing on the git-fiddle will be the painless way to make the hour fly.
 
I promise to take only small shallow breaths during the course of that hour.  Though I wonder whether that bean-burrito would upset all my Earth-concious efforts.
 
BCR:
For example, those Prius hybrid cars -- if you consider them from start to finish, the batteries, the fact that the batteries need to be completely replaced every 2-3 years...
This notion has been floating around for a while, but it's not true.  My 2002 Prius has over 100K miles on the original battery, and it's still doing fine, and this seems to be true of most of them.  The battery-management algorithm favors lifetime over usable capacity, notably unlike laptop-computer battery usage.
The dinky 12V auxiliary battery is noted for a short working life, though mine hasn't needed replacing yet.
(Besides which, I kinda assume worn-out traction batteries would get recycled; I understand the price of nickel is high enough that no one in his right mind would just discard one of those batteries.)

I quite agree about the pointlessness of Earth Hour, though.

 
Bills' kids are going to get some new toys!
Contract from yesterday:
Aeronautical Radio Incorporated, Annapolis, Md., was awarded on Mar. 7, 2009, a $80,600,000 firm fixed price contract for the procurement and delivery of (22) Mi-17CT helicopters in support of the Iraqi Government. Work is to be performed at Warner Robins, Ga., (15 precent), Dubai, United Arab Emirates, (20 precent), and Ulan Ude Russia, (65 precent) with an estimated completion date of Aug. 31, 2010. One bid was solicited and one bid received. Program Executive Office for Simulation, Training and Instrumentation, Orlando, Fla., is the contracting activity (W900KK-08-C-0011).
 
Sam:

I am, by no means what so ever, even close to being any sort of engineer type, so what follows is meant as something you may want to actually research for yourself, since you are, as you say, a young journalist. Nothing much in this world of less use than a journalist who works off of ignorant opinion or group think, after all. (Not meant as implication that you are such, just general disrespect for such an overwhelmingly unrespectable industry).

The primary issue with the "Earth Hour" is its absolute uselessness. Electrical energy has to be produced in a steady state condition with concern for top end need. It's not a "use less temporarily, generate less automatically" situation. So, as usual, watermelons (green on the outside, bright marxist red on the inside) produce a propaganda piece that has no real effect on the situation but allows the usual useful idiots to feel good about themselves and aids in pushing the meme forward that humanity is the problem and we're killing the earth.

As to electricity and its current constrained state which leads to rolling black outs, brownouts etc during high use seasons, take a look at the amount of effort that is put into the courts by watermelons to keep any new generation facilities from ever getting built.

You claim to be a journalist. Do some research.  I may be either completely or partially head up arse in my understanding of the elect gen deal, but you should do the actual research to find out. You're a journalist. It is your job.
 
BillT -- if you've got *anything* that uses gas, the pilot light is liable to go out, and the igniters are electric.
Only partially correct, Billy boy. Got gas. When the power is down, a match/lighter works fine. Happens often here in hurricane country. Not very smart to have a totally electric house in these parts unless one has a whole-house natural gas generator.

My pre-teen years were spend in the sticks without electricity, phone, etc., but had a #3 washtub for daily ... not weekly ... bathing.
 
I've been wondering about the hatred of the Prius from your side of the fence.  I see them as a fantastically efficient car and they really are good for the environment and wallet at the same time and at a reasonable price.  I think the reaction from your side has been a tad pathetic.  Here's a car that is actually good instead of a speech from Al Gore which is not good.

We didn't do Earth Hour, we had more important things to attend to.  It's a marketing idea I guess but really to notice I think your idea of zilch power is certainly more into it.  However it's not about that, it's about switching off the lights.  I personally don't think Earth Hour is all that good.  Because it implies having on the lights is a bad thing.  You're quite right about the amount of energy that it uses, even if only using normal incandescent ones in a house they only use about 7% of the total power.  However this is about visible support, 'voting' as they call it, not saving energy.  Because you can see it in your local area (in a city John, in a city) if all the lights go out.

John you're dead wrong about those lights.  They are *switched* off.  And why unplug all those devices when you can just flip the switch instead?  Besides, not all of them use trickle power.

Unplugging the smoke detector won't work a la your concept, they have a capacitor which holds charge for such an event.  You would have to rip that bit out.
 
Did you bother to heat the water, Robert?  My father used to bathe in a galv iron tub he still has and we used to wash the dog because that's about how big it is.
 

I did my part for "Earth Hour" about 2 days ago when the wind kicked up, took out a power pole which took out a power line which took out our power. For about 4 hours. So I'm good to go for the next 4 years.

 

*whew*

 
Oops Bill wrote this not John.  Apologies for the confusion.
 
Where do I start!!!! 

BCR - I love Human Achievement Hour and their video rocked!

Bill, "Enemy at the Gates of 1283 E. McGovern Dr." was also a big hit.
 
I had planned to light my house up like Christmas for Earth Hour/Human Achievement Hour, but was late getting home from a family gathering.  So does it count that I was driving - well speeding really, over the Mystic River bridge, blasting ColdPlay, window down, heated seat switched on?

Of course my house was actually lit up like Christmas because Frankie had friends over for some basketball game.  Every light, the TV, the computer, the fridge running full steam chilling & dispensing Bud, the microwave & oven serving up appropriate snacks.

Sam - it's a rough crowd baby - better put on your pads.  My Darling Chief is never lonely! He has more women in more ports than any ten Sailors....and I would know, I have an advanced degree in the study of the mating habits of the American Sailor.
 
Maggie - glad to see you. Trust me, I know the Internet is serious business!

Well, the challenge went well. I'll bg writing about it on Monday on work.

I shall return. Nifty blog you've got here and thanks for letting me take part.

And thanks to Miss Ladybug for sending me this way earlier today.
 
Ecochondriacs of the World, UNITE!
 
Only partially correct, Billy boy. Got gas.

Billy boy? Horsefeathers -- I see I need to release my Certificate of Live Birth again.

Okay, Robert, amended to, "If you have gas appliances made anytime between 1834 and the 1960s, you're saved from turning the gas off, but you'll still need to run at breakneck speed down the cellar stairs to check the pilot light every 48 seconds."

Grump. Forgot to use my sleeve card. Hydroelectric plants outnumber coal-, gas-, and oil-fired ones in a goodly percentage of the world, so the folks there would be protesting "green" energy.

 
I shall return. Nifty blog you've got here and thanks for letting me take part.

MilBlogs. Exciting the imagination of normal people, One Post At A Time.

 
[bad cat robot]yard germans

Best landscaping idea EVER.

[bad cat robot]Mostly Earth Hour is about *appearing* to care about the earth, and doing what the cool kids are doing.

That pretty much describes all of Western environmentalism today.

[Sam]But ... to be clear ... is all the stuff in my house going to blow up if I turn the breakers off and then back on?

After living in Florida for 9 years, I can say quite confidently that a home full of modern electronics is perfectly capable of handling complete power losses for anywhere from a minute to a week.

[Grimmy]watermelons (green on the outside, bright marxist red on the inside)

I love this new term, thank you so very much Grimmy!

[Robert]Not very smart to have a totally electric house in these parts unless one has a whole-house natural gas generator.

When you have a house built from solid rebar-reinforced concrete, with lexan windows (hence no hurricane shutters to put up) and a whole-house generator with an enormous underground tank, hurricanes actually start to become amusing.

Unless of course the cable goes out and you don't have enough TV recorded on the DVR.

[Argent]I've been wondering about the hatred of the Prius from your side of the fence. I see them as a fantastically efficient car and they really are good for the environment and wallet at the same time and at a reasonable price.

Have you never heard of diesels in Australia?

Besides, I worked out the costs of hybrids once. At approximately USD8000 for a hybrid vs equivalent conventional gasoline car, you need to ask yourself if you're EVER going to drive the car enough miles to save USD8000 in gasoline. At, say, USD2.00 a gallon, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever break even, much less save any real money.

[BillT]Hydroelectric plants outnumber coal-, gas-, and oil-fired ones in a goodly percentage of the world, so the folks there would be protesting "green" energy.

I've even heard tree-huggers complaining about hydropower. I am not making this up.
 
Not surprised, Josh. I'll bet they'd even find fault with nuclear...
 
Have you never heard of diesels in Australia?
Let's assume I have, then you can tell me why it matters.
At approximately USD8000 for a hybrid vs equivalent conventional gasoline car
Where did you get the number?


 
Unless of course the cable goes out and you don't have enough TV recorded on the DVR.

What, no satellite backup?

And we left the lights on. Especially the outside lights.  Heh.  I wonder which would piss off the enviros more - we leaving our lights on, or turning them off and then shooting coyotes/foxes/raccoons that took advantage of the darkness to raid the coops?

Hmmmm.  Do the gasses of firearms discharge add to the problem of  anthropogenic global warming?  Do I get a credit for the load taken out of the system by the rapidly cooling predators?
 
Are coyotes the only dangerous predator you get over there?
 
ry drops in sometimes, but he's only dangerous if you're holding a bag of Cheet-Os...
 

No, certainly.  Coyotes are the largest predator we've laid eyes on.  There really aren't any that are threats to humans, but to the smaller livestock (especially the birds) and Interior Guard when they're outside playing "MIghty Hunter" we have foxes, raccoons, opposum, owls, hawks, bobcats (we've seen the tracks, and they aren't housecat tracks) and, cougars.  If they'd keep the 'coon population down and leave the birds (and dogs) alone, we'd welcome one setting up a den in the area.  Some of our neighbors (especially the one with the yippy lap dogs a mile or so away) might not agree.

Ry is easy to trap and tranquilize and then ship back to his native habitat.

 
Righto.  I guess we have crocs, sharks and dingos for humans but dingos are not south of the fence and incidents with them are fairly rare, they are pack animals but not really that large. Crocs are very dangerous but are only up north.  Sharks are rather problematic here though they don't actually manage to kill that many people.

For the KFC though there's a fair bit more.  Foxes are probably the biggest problem.  I've seen eagles but not often and our possums don't seem to eat carnivorously very much.  I haven't thought about owls I wonder how bad they are.  Snakes and wild domestic cats can also be an issue.

The biggest risks here seem to be all the damn poisonous stuff which is easy to kill but that's not much help if you clutch your throat and go black in the face anyway, now is it?
 
John, are coyotes considered vermin there?  If so you can have hours of fun - Bushmaster + PVS4 (I'm sure you have one) + coyotes = pest control. You can even get into IR spotlighting if the conditions warrant.  Have you got that Eastern Bloc 'Snooper scope' working yet?  :-)
 
Pogue - are coyotes vermin?  Depends on where in Kansas you live.  If you're in the cities of Johnson county, they're cute critters of the wild who should be trapped and taken to places like... Leavenworth County and released to live their Gaia-friendly lives.

If you live in Leavenworth County - especially the "county" of that polity - they're targets.
 
I talked to some of the people at work that know more about the generating side of things than I do and they said that if 80 to 90 percent of the people ACTUALLY did shut off their power all at once (or close to it) then you might just need to get used to the dark becuase the lights probably wouldn't come back on.

Electricity is a real time commodity and if the plants are generating for a certain load and then suddenly that load isn't there any more you could well have a surge that would blow out a LOT of valuable, needed, and relatively scarce equipment. And even if there is no damage just because there is no damage doesn't mean any fuel was saved. Coal plants take a long time to cycle up or down. Gas turbine peaking plants are more flexible but still take time and probably aren't being used at night since the load is lower in the evening and especially on the week end. Solar isn't generated at night. And little wind is used at night since wind is caused by the uneven heating of the earth by the sun (less sun less wind). And you dare not turn down a nuke plant ... it is safer to run it at 100% and it is the ultimate base load.
 
Even here in the blue state of Washington, coyotes are targets pretty much year-round. 
 
[Argent]Let's assume I have, then you can tell me why it matters.

Rather than "Have you read about them on the Internet", I was more asking a question about whether Australia is like Europe, where diesels are widely available in most cars, as an equivalent to gas engines, or whether Australia is like Europe where diesels are strictly limited to trucks (Except for VW Jettas, Mercedes E-classes, and BMW -35d models). Because if you have diesels available, you can save far more fuel than a gasoline hybrid without the extra expense.

[Argent]Where did you get the number?

Last I checked, MSRPs for hybrids vs the equivalent conventional gasoline-engined model were about USD8000 apart.
 
Josh:
At approximately USD8000 for a hybrid vs equivalent conventional gasoline car, you need to ask yourself if you're EVER going to drive the car enough miles to save USD8000 in gasoline. At, say, USD2.00 a gallon, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever break even, much less save any real money.
Pretty much true.  Running some SWAGS... assume 200K mile life, Prius at 45 MPG lifetime average (slightly on the low side for the old model, on California gas, in mixed driving), vs. Corolla at 35 MPG average (wild guess, probably a little high), I come up with roughly 1300 gallons saved; if gas costs an average of $2.25/gal over the life of the car, that comes to around $2900, definitely less than the price difference.  If your notion of an equivalent conventional car is thirstier, adjust the analysis accordingly.

The Prius does have other advantages, though.  The brakes last for-freakin'-ever, the stealth mode means I can sneak up on bicyclists, and there's a whole bunch of electricity available for powering the plasma cannon.

 
I can sneak up on bicyclists, and there's a whole bunch of electricity available for powering the plasma cannon.

Eric nails it.  BCR, where's our cannon?
 
[Eric Wilner]The Prius does have other advantages, though. The brakes last for-freakin'-ever, the stealth mode means I can sneak up on bicyclists, and there's a whole bunch of electricity available for powering the plasma cannon.

Can't argue with long brake life (I assume that's a direct result of the regenerative braking?), and I can't think of any other vehicle with stealth mode...but if you want some serious power for weaponry, I'd be tempted to get a proper pickup with a power takeoff.  That way you've got a large bed to mount whatever weaponry you want, plus your power source is more versatile...want a ballista or onager?  Hook it to a winch.  Want a plasma cannon or railgun?  Hook it to a dedicated generator.

BMW 1 series has regenerative braking though, I'm getting the impression that "mild hybrid" features like that may become widespread.

 
I got yer cannon right here.  Just have to aim behind you, so to speak.  (and the moral is, a bored engineer is a really, really dangerous engineer ...)
 
Ah the Jet Beetle, haven't seen that in a while!

Someday I want to build something similar to that...except I want to leave the engine as a turboshaft, and convert the rear wheels to tracks (like a WWII halftrack) in order to put the 1000+ horsepower straight to the ground.
 
Ah, the Jet Beetle, haven't seen that in a while.

Someday I want to build something kind of like that, except I want to leave the engine in a turboshaft configuration and convert the rear wheels to tracks (like a WWII halftrack) so that I can put the 1000+ horsepower straight to the ground.
 
Josh: Diesels are widely available as both trucks or cars.  They are just not bought all that often.
you can save far more fuel than a gasoline hybrid without the extra expense.
Yes disels do save fuel being more fuel efficient.  A litre (or gallon) of diesel in a diesel car goes further than a litre of petrol in a petrol car.  But the saving money is not correct.  The price of diesel is perhaps 10-20% more than petrol, the cars cost a lot more and they cost more to service and fix.  People buy them for power reasons not economic reasons.

 
I haven't seen prices for a long time, but I thought that in Europe at least, diesel and conventional gasoline engine prices were only a few thousand apart at most, and CERTAINLY the diesel options aren't as expensive as the gasoline hybrid options.  I don't know what the pricing is like in Australia, though.

As for the 10-20% price difference, if you consider that you can achieve 50-100% better mileage with an equivalent diesel engine, you're definitely saving money on fuel vs conventional gasoline engines, without only a small fraction of the price premium for hybrids.  Plus, you get more vehicle space and save weight, because no matter how bulky and heavy your diesel engine is, it's never going to match the huge battery arrays of hybrids.
 
Josh: Actually diesels are around 30% more efficient not as much as you think.  If it's not an inefficient style of car like an SUV in which case it's worse.  I do not know the diesel car weights but hybrids are light.  The batteries are big but I wouldn't call them huge except in the old versions.  For the total weight the petrol engine is smaller and they often use lightweight materials to improve the efficiency.
 
*yawn*
wha?
WHAT!!!!???

I missed the party!!!???

*sniffle*
 
Ecochondriacs of the World, UNITE!

Meanwhile, on the other side of the room, the dyslexic ecochondriacs of the world became untied....  it was a sad, sad situation.  Fortunately Woody Harrelson showed up with hemp rope and a match and saved the day.
 
Not too far off the mark, there, Twin.

A lot of venues attracted celebrants by offering

*heh*

Speed-Dating by Candlelight.

Sometimes, the comedy just writes itself...
   
Comments have been entered!

Left your cellphone on, didja? Smart move, considering the potential consequences...