Comments for Dude! You dented my ride!

Dude! You dented my ride!

2009-03-23T11:47:12Z

I just got her back from the shop after the last time!!!

BAHRAIN (March 21, 2009) The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Hartford (SSN 768) pulls into Mina Salman pier in Bahrain where U.S. Navy engineers and inspection teams will asses and evaluate damage that resulted from a collision with the amphibious transport dock ship USS New Orleans (LPD 18) in the Strait of Hormuz March 20. Overall damage to both ships is being evaluated. The incident remains under investigation. Hartford is deployed to the U.S. 5th fleet area of responsibility to support maritime security operations. (U.S. Navy photo by Cmdr. Jane Campbell/Released)

I wonder how much money is going into naval R&D on improving the abilities of submarines to get a better sense of what's in the immediate vicinity of the vessel?

Comment from Josh on 2009-03-24

2009-03-24T08:59:14Z

A little something for the submariners...

I'll remember to give you all fresh Bicycle decks for your birthdays...

Comment from Old Quartermaster on 2009-03-24

2009-03-24T06:33:37Z

Way back in '70 we found a shallow spot in the Sea of Japan. The chart was marked 6,000 fathoms and the depth finder reported 600. We noted the location and the next time we passed that way the Captain had us do a survey. The information was passed to the hydrographic office.

The E3 who made the discovery stayed in and reached E8. The E4 who plotted the survey got out and remembered it. The Chief forgot about it.

So if you see the bump in the topo of the Sea of Japan you can say you know the guy who put it on the map.

Comment from Maggie on 2009-03-23

2009-03-24T03:56:45Z

Relax, that's gonna buff right out.

Comment from Lamigra on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T21:48:59Z

http://www.eaglespeak.us/2007/09/irans-swarm-attack-tactics-in-strait-of.html

OHHHMIGODDDDDDDD...................................

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T20:49:00Z

It's always nice to draw in a subject matter expert to provide the context... and still have a little fun.

Comment from fdcol63 on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T20:25:26Z

" .... into our operating envelope ...."

sobersubmrnr, I think this is the key piece I was overlooking. Thanks for educating me!

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T20:06:02Z

fdcol63, You mean like the seamount that San Francisco nailed a while back? There are parts of the Pacific that haven't been charted since the 19th Century and even then, they were poorly or incompletely charted at the time. The good news is that we have a fairly good idea of the layout of the ocean floor away from the land masses....in most places. An undersea volcano won't just poke up from the ocean floor into our operating envelope. If it's there, it's been there for a long time.

Comment from fdcol63 on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T18:57:18Z

This is probably going to sound like a stupid question to you sub professionals, and I know these things have sonar and what-not, but ......

What considerations are given to geographical changes in the ocean floor that may make some existing maps and charts obsolete?

Such as sudden or previously undetected hills or land masses caused by volcanic or tectonic activity?

Comment from Grumpy on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T18:32:26Z

BillT, creative suggestions. What do you think about the priority of being watertight? It might make things easier for the crew.

Comment from sobersubmrnr on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T18:02:16Z

A few things to know about submarines, sonar and operating in a strait. 1) A submerged submarine is the burdened vessel under the Rules of the Road, meaning she has to stay clear of surface vessels. So the CO and Officer of the Deck on board New Orleans may not be gigged for this. 2) Sonar conditions in a strait are horrible, due to the flow of water through them. All that water from the Tigris, Euphrates and other rivers and streams has to go somewhere and it goes into the Arabian Sea through the strait. There's a lot of water at different temperatures and salinity mixing at that point and those layers bend or block sound. Submarines use thermal layers to hide, but those same layers can block the sound of vessels above them. Sound in water is a funny and sometimes unpredictable thing. 3) Narrow straits means piloting. Piloting is normally done on the surface, but in some places (like Hormuz) it's not possible to be on the surface due to operational concerns. For example, a submarine can't defend herself from Iranian Boghammers on the surface. So they have to run the strait submerged and come to periscope depth (PD) to take visual or GPS fixes. Prior to proceeding to PD, a boat will clear baffles (turn to listen behind her) and then the OOD will do a continuous periscope sweep as they come up, looking for shapes, shadows or close contacts. This is an imperfect way of doing things, but it's the best that can be done. 4) Large vessels (like a LPD or a supertanker) can be very quiet from bow-on. The greater internal volume can absorb sound from the propulsion plant and in the case of a really deep draft vessel like a loaded Very Large Crude Carrier (ULCC) or Ultra Large Crude Carrier (ULCC), their draft can be so deep that sea pressure will compress cavitation from the screw (propeller), causing it to be quieter than on a smaller ship. Now put (2), (3) and (4) together. Hartford's sonarmen may have heard nothing as they cleared baffles, the OOD may have seen nothing until it was too late. Both scopes are down, so they may have heard that amphib bearing down on them as they came above a layer and attempted an Emergency Deep, but not in time. This isn't the first time this has happened, either. No matter how much technology we use, no matter how hard we train, the fact is that submarine operations are a dangerous business. That's why boat crews received hazardous duty pay. It's by the grace of God that we haven't lost a boat since 1968, but we've had several close calls. This is one of them.

Comment from BillT on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T17:49:28Z

First modification: sound-absorbent coating replaced by XL Scotch-Brite™ scrubbing pad.

Second modification: flex-mounted sail.

Comment from Josh on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T17:48:14Z

That must be one of the old plasticky conning towers...I thought they replaced 'em all with metal ones?

Comment from Grumpy on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T17:04:09Z

@BillT, "Rust removal, while underway", that's a new idea. I figure the bean counters had better do a tad bit of tweaking of the numbers. This is like the removal of barnacles from wooden ships, while underway, by keel hauling. As I understand it, this was a poor strategy and it was not considered a long term career choice.

Comment from Boquisucio on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T16:06:50Z

Then on the other hand... mabey they can use this opportunity to take that beat-up old hoopty and pimp dat ride.

I just wonder what it will look in some Mad Daddy Spankin' new spinners though.

Comment from Blake Kirk on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T15:58:22Z

Yep.. That boat is like serously broke. Note the gap between the sail and the hull at the base of the sail.

Its probably important to note that the Strais of Hormuz are a relatively shallow passage, with depths ranging from 70 to 90 meters, A Los-Angeles-class sub is 18 meters fron the keel to the top of the sail. That doesn't leave an awful lot of wiggle room for the sub's conning officer to play around in.

Comment from Kirk on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T15:53:47Z

Same fate as the skipper of the USS Port Royal who made the mistake of beaching his cruiser off Hawaii.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T15:48:56Z

More than one, depending on what the role of New Orleans in the collision, I would think.

Comment from Kirk on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T15:45:07Z

And another Navy O-5's career comes to a screeching halt.

Comment from AFSister on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T15:24:19Z

Unfreakin' believable....

Comment from Argent on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T13:21:09Z

Too much dodgem car training. This is the second or third incident isn't it?

Comment from BillT on 2009-03-23

2009-03-23T12:23:55Z

I see the Navy's new attempt at increasing its millennial relevance -- "Underway Rust Removal...from the Sea" -- is off to a rocky start...