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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-</id>
  <updated>2012-03-24T15:22:26Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Publishing the addresses of concealed permit holders.</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2010</subtitle>
  <generator uri="http://www.sixapart.com/movabletype/">Movable Type 4.12</generator>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393</id>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html" />
    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=10393" title="Publishing the addresses of concealed permit holders." />
    <published>2009-02-13T13:57:06Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T14:38:49Z</updated>
    <title>Publishing the addresses of concealed permit holders.</title>
    <summary><![CDATA[Dusty sent along a link to No Silence Here, a local blog at KnoxNews.com, about the Memphis Commercial Appeal's posting a searchable database of Tennessee concealed carry permit holders.&nbsp; This is what Dusty had to say:

Just sent this to my&nbsp;buddy in&nbsp;Tennessee who carries a weapon. I then sent a copy of the page from the Commercial Appeal with his info. Coming soon to a Kansas paper near you?

Dusty

P.S. Scroll down to the city of Memphis in the bar chart. There's a reason they call it &quot;Mogadishu.&quot; These permits are needed, if you ask me.

Predictably, this raised a shitestorm of outrage, as the database contained addresses, not just names.&nbsp; Say Uncle, the Greyhawk of the gunbloggers, and others reacted and caught the paper's attention, and in a way designed to catch the attention of the newspaper, which they did - and they at least stripped out the addresses.]]></summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Computers and Privacy" />
    
    <category term="Gun Rights" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com/">
      <![CDATA[<img height="450" alt="Some of the pistols of Argghhh!" width="600" src="http://www.fototime.com/8BC7DDDC17ACE57/orig.jpg" /><br /><br />﻿Dusty sent along a link to <a href="http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/silence/archives/2009/02/newspaper_posts.shtml">No Silence Here</a>, a local blog at KnoxNews.com, about the <a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/data/gunpermits/">Memphis Commercial Appeal's posting a searchable database</a> of Tennessee concealed carry permit holders.&nbsp; This is what Dusty had to say:<br /><blockquote><div>Just sent this to my&nbsp;buddy in&nbsp;Tennessee who carries a weapon. I then sent a copy of the page from the Commercial Appeal with his info. Coming soon to a Kansas paper near you?<br /><br />Dusty<br /><br />P.S. Scroll down to the city of Memphis in the bar chart. There's a reason they call it &quot;Mogadishu.&quot; These permits are needed, if you ask me.</div></blockquote><br />Predictably, this raised a shitestorm of outrage, as the database contained addresses, not just names.&nbsp; <a href="http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2009/02/10/again-8/#comments">Say Uncle, the Greyhawk of the gunbloggers, and others reacted</a> and caught the paper's attention, and in a way designed to catch the attention of the newspaper, which they did - and they at least stripped out the addresses.<br /><br />I actually liked the idea of taking the senior management personnel (leave the rest alone, they implement decisions, not make them) and do public records searches on them, and create a postable database.&nbsp; That might help them understand the concerns of people who find their information just hanging out there to be had.<br /><br />The usual arguments are &quot;You're publishing a map that says &quot;Here are where there are guns to steal!&quot;<br /><br />True enough.&nbsp; I&nbsp;would note that in response to Dusty's Kansas question, the Armorer doesn't carry, and therefore doesn't have a permit.&nbsp; I&nbsp;do have an 03 FFL, however.&nbsp; But that data is protected because ATFE did figure out that posting 03&nbsp;FFL data in their EZ&nbsp;Check system for dealers would be tantamount to publishing a menu for sophisticated gun thieves.&nbsp; Downside, I can't fax my license to a dealer, because they can't verify them, but hey, that's okay.&nbsp; <br /><br />I have another argument for *not* doing it, however.&nbsp; It's the flip side of the first.<br /><br />Because the thieves can just as likely use the database to look up targets and say to themselves... &quot;Hmmmmm, concealed permit holder - trained, with stated willingness to use it - let's find a softer target.&nbsp; clickety-click-click&nbsp; &quot;Okay, this guy has no permit, lives in a nice area, likely to have some good stuff, I'll go hit him.&quot;<br /><br /><p>Of course, that might lead him to the Castle, which he might find annoying.&nbsp; But there's your lawsuit from the other side...&nbsp; &quot;The guy hit my house because he figured there was a good chance I was a gun-fearing wussy!&quot;<br /><br />Just a thought.&nbsp; Certainly does show that we've got some tinkering to do with our concepts and the realities of privacy in a digital age.<br /><br />Public records that were public but you still had to go in to a central location and pore over them really is different from public records where anyone with a digital device from anywhere can quickly gather that data, and anonymously.</p>]]>
      
    </content>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84239</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Josh on 2009-02-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Josh</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Ry, if I had to choose between concealed carry and open carry, I would pick open carry any day.&nbsp; Aside from the fact that it gives you more options (not just in what you can wear and carry, but also WHERE you can wear it, such as thigh holsters), I just don't really like the concept of concealed weapons.&nbsp; I'm not saying you shouldn't have the right to carry concealed...I just think that people should be open about the fact that they are armed.<br />
<br />
I wouldn't go so far as to say that the concept of &quot;an armed society is a polite society&quot;&nbsp;is necessarily true, but knowing that everybody in the room is carrying sure is a nice extra incentive to be civil.<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-14T21:42:25Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-14T21:42:25Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84236</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84236" />
    <title>Comment from Justthisguy on 2009-02-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Justthisguy</name>
        <uri>http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[On the CCWs: Squeaky wrote a letter to the editor of what she calls "The Commie Appeal", pretty much baring her soul and hurling it at them. I hope they felt some pain, from that lick.

Please see: <a href="http://www.squeakywheelseeksgrease.com/blog/2009/02/12/my-letter-to-the-commercial-appeal/" rel="nofollow">http://www.squeakywheelseeksgrease.com/blog/2009/02/12/my-letter-to-the-commercial-appeal/</a>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-14T19:52:53Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-14T19:52:53Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84234</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Justthisguy on 2009-02-14</title>
    <author>
        <name>Justthisguy</name>
        <uri>http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com">
        On the Search and Seizure thing, I believe the rot set in about in 1760. Up until then, no search warrants could issue except fo looking for stolen goods.  Then we had those &quot;writs of assistance&quot; etc. for George Hanover&apos;s customs boys to bust in anywhere they liked.  It is getting to be like that, again.

Dang! Used to be, one&apos;s diary was not admissible as evidence against him, seeing as how he might have made it all up, and it was just what he was thinking, not doin&apos; anyway.
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-14T18:28:48Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-14T18:28:48Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84208</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84208" />
    <title>Comment from ry on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>ry</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Alternatively, we could all just quit the CC thing and start carrying openly.&nbsp; LEOs don't like that so much, from what I've heard. ;) <br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T23:25:55Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T23:25:55Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84204</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84204" />
    <title>Comment from Yu-Ain Gonnano on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Yu-Ain Gonnano</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<p>Yep, the BoR&nbsp;is just a nickname for the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution.&nbsp; It's perfectly understandable, however,&nbsp;to think they are seperate documents as the BoR is often referenced alone.&nbsp;In fact, most challenges brought to the courts do center around those 10 because unlike most of the rest of the Constitution which sets down what the .gov *may* do, the BoR says what the .gov *can't* do.<br />
<br />
You are exactly right on the &quot;reasonableness&quot; issue.&nbsp;But I guess protecting a mother wanting to kill her unborn child is considered reasonable while&nbsp;it isn't for a&nbsp;mother wanting to protect her's.</p>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T22:02:15Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T22:02:15Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84202</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84202" />
    <title>Comment from Argent on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Argent</name>
        <uri>http://www.aaronpoeze.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.aaronpoeze.com/">
        <![CDATA[Sounds a bit wishy washy but then there are times privacy has to be breached so it's not easy to word these things.&nbsp; It all hinges on 'reasonable' I suppose.<br />
<br />
Well there you go, and I thought it was a separate document.<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T20:47:26Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T20:47:26Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84199</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84199" />
    <title>Comment from Yu-Ain Gonnano on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Yu-Ain Gonnano</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Also, &lt;nit&gt;The Bill of Rights is a part of the U.S. Constitution, so the answer to your question is, &quot;Yes&quot; :-) &lt;/nit&gt;<br />
<br />
And goodness, the previous post didn't get formatted anything like what it looked like in the editor. My bad.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T20:27:49Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T20:27:49Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84198</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84198" />
    <title>Comment from Yu-Ain Gonnano on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Yu-Ain Gonnano</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Argent, It's one of those Emanations and Penumbra thingys of the 4A.<br />
<br />
<strong>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated</strong>, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.<br />
&nbsp;
It doesn't say that you have a right to privacy, but it is interpreted that the reason gov't can't just come in to your house and take a look around willy-nilly is because those things are considered &quot;private&quot;. Thus, since&nbsp;&quot;what a woman does with her own body&quot; is argued to be a &quot;private&quot; matter, the gov't can't violate it.&nbsp; Appearently, though,&nbsp;&quot;what a woman carries to protect her own body&quot; isn't considered &quot;private&quot;, and so the gov't can not only collect that information, they can publish it to the world.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T20:20:27Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T20:20:27Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84193</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84193" />
    <title>Comment from Grumpy on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Grumpy</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[It's strange, the power of knowns and the power of unknowns and how they interact with each other. Now, being the &quot;Statesman&quot;, that you are, you'll walk lightly and respectfully at all times. The consequence will be, they'll never figure you out. You might put it another way, &quot;Keep your powder dry.&quot; Then find the right weapon to solve the issue. As I look at the Second Amendment to the US&nbsp;Constitution, it talks of our freedoms. Many would look at this concept and say this without *any* restriction. To these people, I firmly disagree. Before anybody gets their bladder in an uproar, let me explain. I believe we need to learn how to use the freedom responsibly. If you have the &quot;Right to Bear Arms&quot;, you also have the &quot;Responsibility of Bearing Arms&quot;. The same is true of the press. We have the &quot;Freedom of Information Act / Privacy Act&quot;,<br />
<br />
Grumpy]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T19:53:14Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T19:53:14Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84192</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84192" />
    <title>Comment from Jay Season on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Jay Season</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[I live in TN.&nbsp; I don't care that they publish public records.&nbsp; Keep their nice records; bolsters the case of me belonging to a well regulated militia&nbsp; :-)<br />
<br />
I have a carry card, but no one knows what weapons I&nbsp;may have.<br />
<br />
Speaking of privacy:&nbsp;&nbsp;Is there a on-line, searchable database of abortion records?&nbsp; I mean, those doctors are regulated by the government right..? (then again, what's&nbsp;NOT regulated by the government anymore?)]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T19:31:50Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T19:31:50Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84190</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84190" />
    <title>Comment from Argent on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Argent</name>
        <uri>http://www.aaronpoeze.com/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.aaronpoeze.com/">
        <![CDATA[Is privacy in the US Bill of Rights or Constitution?&nbsp; It's not legally protected here.<br />
<br />
<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T18:56:41Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T18:56:41Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84184</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84184" />
    <title>Comment from Yu-Ain Gonnano on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Yu-Ain Gonnano</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[allen, Ask and ye shall receive.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/003287.html#003287" rel="nofollow"><a href="http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/003287.html#003287" rel="nofollow">http://shotsacrossthebow.com/archives/003287.html#003287</a></a>]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T16:37:15Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T16:37:15Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84183</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84183" />
    <title>Comment from Yu-Ain Gonnano on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Yu-Ain Gonnano</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[What I want to know is when they're going to publish the lists of other people who have excersized civil rights which are controversial, like&nbsp;abortion recipients or gay marriages.<br />
<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T16:30:22Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T16:30:22Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84179</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84179" />
    <title>Comment from allen on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>allen</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[hmmm...wish half-answered..now all we need are addresses. that shouldn't take long for most of them.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.commercialappeal.com/staff/" rel="nofollow">http://www.commercialappeal.com/staff/</a><br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T15:56:49Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T15:56:49Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393-comment:84178</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2009://1.10393" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/02/publishing_the.html#comment-84178" />
    <title>Comment from allen on 2009-02-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>allen</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[we need to publish a serachable database of all of the employees of that paper. cross-reference it with the concealed-carry database. post it somehwere as a &quot;list of people with nice stuff and no guns&quot;. even better, let's distribute the list to every crackhouse in the state.<br />
<br />
they want to violate our priivacy for thier little anti- 2nd amendment crusade, we can do the same. see how thier families like it.<br />
<br />
I'm tired of being nice. I'm tired of being civil. these lists put people in danger. and they need to share in that danger. maybe after a few get attacked they'll figure out it wasn't such a high moral crusade anymore, and that they are in the same trenches we are.<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2009-02-13T15:50:36Z</published>
    <updated>2009-02-13T15:50:36Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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