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H&I Fires* 2 February 2009

Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite.
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Day 13 of the Obama administration.  Castle Argghhh! has a unicorn.  Oddly enough, promises *were* kept.  [Ya didn't think it was *over* did you Josh?]

Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow, so six more weeks of winter.   While *I* like that, there are plenty of people who are justifiably tired of this global warming stuff.  Even Phil, since he was apparently a little nippy this morning.

Over at Theo Spark - some tips on handling that co-ed workplace.

At CJs place - free flowers for troops this Valentine's Day

We had Old Blue of Bill and Bob's Excellent Afghanistan Adventure over for dinner on Saturday.  He got a tour of the Arsenal, locally grown steak, and was rather surprised to see there's a swivel gun on the railing of the Shooting Deck of Argghhh!.  Heh.  Old Blue has some interesting things going on - some of which he can talk about, and some he can't - and all of it interesting or funny. 

Parrothead Jeff has a suggestion for something Bill can spend all that filthy contractor lucre on.  Neffi - mebbe you can go shopping, too.

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Let's get political - can anyone *imagine* the bile and vitriol that would have spilled forth from Kos and the DU, Move.on and Code Pink, if some personality cult website like this had been set up for President Bush?  Much less by a putative news organ?  Meet the Detroit Free Press and their "See Obama in Yourself" O-gasm.  It's one thing to be inspired by someone who has been selected to lead... it's another thing for it to spill over into virtual worship.  -the Armorer

Continuing the political theme - the Anchoress wonders where is the MSM denouncing the response of FEMA to the Ice Storm victims?  -the Armorer

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Presidential Pragmatism Watch (which, btw, isn't always a Bad Thing).  So, "harsh interrogation techniques" are out, and Gitmo is to be closed.  Well, why not - President Obama is just taking a page from a Republican governance idea - and outsourcing the harsh interrogations and imprisonment of difficult-to-categorize prisoners in the war on terror.  Probably no press trips to those jails.  No lawyers, either.  As any good politician knows, it's always good to posture and harumph when there's a functional back-up available. 

Update: And you shouldn't miss the pragmatism hypocrisy of idealists like Human Rights Watch when their guy is making the decisions...  -the Armorer

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Regarding the LA Times rendition story (linked above) - there is a story at the Washington Monthly wihich offers plausible cover on the issue of renditions.  The proof, of course, is in the event, not the punditry's bloviations about what might happen.  Still - a worthwhile look at the issue. Of course, this is an issue on which I am a squish.  I'm not happy with the whole torture thing, polite or not.  But I do believe in having some flexibility on the issue.  -the Armorer

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*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires. Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute. Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is. The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now. Of course, now I have to call them UAS's, because someone got a Legion of Merit for the name change.Anyway, I call the post H&I Fires because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to that particular topic. Another term of art that might be appropriate is Free Fire Zone.
 

28 Comments

O-gasm?  I was in DC last week, and what I saw was truly frightening from a "Cult of Personality" perspective.

Granted, it was right after the inauguration, but the sheer volume of Obama pins, hats, shirts, life-size cardboard photos and other assorted memorabilia was staggering.

And just like the Che phenomenon, I found it ironic that so many capitalistic dollars were being exploited from those who preach and believe in Marxist-Socialism.

 
That Aleutian P-40 *would* look nice, strapped to my back... but I just don't have the hangar space, so gonna have to pass.
The $2 mil is *also* an obstacle...
 
fdcol63: Capitalism will rip anyone off with tawdry junk.  It's very fair that way.
 
Argent, you mean that those who preach and believe in Marxist-Socialism aren't "above" exploiting others through "evil" capitalism?  LOL  After all, they could practice what they preach, and simply refuse to buy or sell these products .... to set an example.

I thought Marxist-Socialists didn't believe in Adam Smith's "invisible hand" of self-interest, and were motivated more by the altruistic principles of "community" and "the greater good".  LOL
 
I do indeed beleive they are motivated by higher principles of community and the greater good.  By ensuring the comunity koffs up for their greater good.
 
LOL - no doubt.
 
Goodness, Argent, we're rubbing off on you...
 
Hi! I hope you don't mind the comment but I really wanted to stop by and invite you & your readers to come on over.

I'm so happy to be able to do this for our military community. I'm a military wife and the daughter of a veteran.

eMail Our Military (eMOM) is offering 10 ways for our military community the opportunity to win FREE flowers just in time for Valentine's Day ♥ http://snurl.com/b55mb
 
Hi! I hope you don't mind the comment but I really wanted to stop by and invite you & your readers to come on over.

I'm so happy to be able to do this for our military community. I'm a military wife and the daughter of a veteran and the founder of eMailOurMilitary.com

eMail Our Military (eMOM) is offering 10 ways for our military community to win FREE flowers just in time for Valentine's Day ♥ http://snurl.com/b55mb
 
Sorry about the double comment. ARGH! I hate when that happens.
 
Trish, the proprietor here is a little touchy about the spelling of ARGH...
snerk
 
Not only that spelling issue, Trish - but I linked to CJ's post on the subject in... this very post!

Admittedly, I didn't mention eMail Our Military specifically...

 
Outsourcing torture?  More "do as I say, not as I do" retoric?  But I guess it's ok to condone torture of "former" US prisoners- as long as we pass off the torture interrogations to other nations or private contractors.

Kinda hard to play ball with the boy boys, eh, Obama?

Week 2, and reality is finally settling in with the new Big Kahuna.
 
Obama: "We're too good to torture you, but we'll outsource it to your home country."
 
oh, fooey!  here comes that pesky bit about "can't force re-patriation on a prisoner" thing again...
 
Ya didn't think it was *over* did you Josh?

I kinda hoped so.

On the subject of torture...can we PLEASE have a national re-evaluation of what "torture" actually means?  When I heard it bandied about in relation to Abu Ghraib for months, I got really sick of this...torture is not the same thing as humiliation or frat-party pranks.  I mean seriously, stripping people naked and taking photos?  Ask around any college campus (well, maybe not Brigham Young or Yeshiva, but any state university, sure as hell), and I guarantee you that you can find a thousand stories of people getting pranked worse than that after passing out at a frat party.  And seriously, if you're so sensitive that ripping up your holy book and flushing it down the toilet is "torture", you really don't have much business being a terrorist, you need to work in a teddy-bear factory or something.  You know what's torture?  Kneecapping people is torture.  Beating them and breaking bones and then denying medical treatment is torture.  Starvation and dehydration is torture.  Sawing people's heads off is torture.  When Guantanamo inmates are getting their backs broken like John McCain, then I'll be pissed off.  As long as they're just getting waterboarded, I say good job.
 
On the "plausable cover": I call BS.  If we wanted to afford the detainess protections, we could do that in our own courts.  The entire reason for rendition is the denial of those protections. That is the entire point.
 
(Just doing my job as remaining Castle Contrarian Corps member---what ever happened to Alan anyway?)
Well, actually, mental stuff counts as torture.  If you follow the case law.  Simulated executions for example.  And waterboarding is spectacularly like a simulated execution, no?  What's the diff in putting an empty .38 to someone's head or making them think they're going to drown?  It evokes the same pressures. 
ANd you can, quite literally, induce death by fracking with people's circadian rythems too hard.  That's an old Sov trick for which we denounced them for.

I'm all for having a concrete definition of torture, but not one that says whatever we do is cool but when someone else does the same thing we call them @55holes and worse.  But, I'm egalitarian like that. 
 
I'm tired, I'm cranky.......I only have a minute.

But, you know that thing several posts below?  I know so little about animals, I am sure you are right abouts it's uni-whatever....but aren't unicorms white with rainbow manes?

Also, I don't want a unicorn.  I never did.  I am difficult, whatever.  But I do want a steak.  When I come out there, I want steak.
 
Well, actually, mental stuff counts as torture. If you follow the case law. Simulated executions for example. And waterboarding is spectacularly like a simulated execution, no? What's the diff in putting an empty .38 to someone's head or making them think they're going to drown? It evokes the same pressures.

Sure, I agree, if we're talking about what you can and cannot do to your wife and kids.  I'm just saying that, for purposes of BANNING things altogether as crimes against humanity or whatever, unusable even for purposes of national security, we need to separate stuff like that from the SERIOUS torture, or whatever you want to call it so as to avoid confusion.  Maybe we should make up a new word for the stuff that's just not right, no matter what, to disambiguate it from the frat-party treatment that the ACLU-types get so indignant about.

ANd you can, quite literally, induce death by fracking with people's circadian rythems too hard. That's an old Sov trick for which we denounced them for.

Oh don't misunderstand, I'm certainly not saying that any form of treatment that leads to death is acceptable just on the grounds of not being bloody.
 
The solution to this pesky issue?  Just don't take any prisoners.

Unfortunately, we'd often miss out on some critical intelligence.  But this will be the result of too much hyper-criticism of those in the middle of the action who have to make a split-second decision between killing these a$$holes summarily on the battlefield or putting themselves in either legal or physical jeopardy later.
 
Since we're on the subject of torture and/or interrogations, I figure I should point out this article my father sent me.  I happen to disagree with the article for a number of reasons, but it's an interesting perspective all the same.
 
Changing subjects entirely: Snopes has a page up about the "Obama loyalty oath" thing that was posted here a few days ago.  It's a satire, originally from a blog called "Jumping in Pools," which I might just have to bookmark. 
 
Wolfwalker - thanks for the update, when I first posted on it, Snopes didn't have anything.

I'll go update the post.

Maggie - and you'll have a fine example of locally grown beef protein, I guarantee it.
 
Maggie's suffering from a protein deficiency?
That must be remedied....
 
Heh. That Slate piece on SERE?  

I will never forget the sound of that young sailor choking, seemingly near death, paying for my mistake. I remember only the sound because, try as I might, I couldn't force myself to look at his face. I was next. But for some reason, the guards just dropped the hose on my chest, the water soaking my uniform.

David J. Morris got pwned by the interrogators.

Dropping the hose on his chest was their way of letting him know that they *hadn't* waterboarded the sailor, and it was the *interrogators* who were making the sounds. Morris pussed himself out from the *fear* of what was going to happen, which is what SERE is supposed to teach you to steel yourself against.

Morris evidently did *not* absorb that lesson.


 
My granddaughter nick named Doodlebug ... who was so very sick just slightly over a year back .. has become like a spiritual guide.

She sent me this. I share it with you.
 
Dropping the hose on his chest was their way of letting him know that they *hadn't* waterboarded the sailor

Haha no way, I completely missed that...