Comments for Okay, it's full of simplistic aphorisms... We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:23:05 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Okay, it's full of simplistic aphorisms... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:48:57 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-01-18 A lesser problem was "We don't allow people to drive automobiles without certification...why shouldn't firearm ownership require a demonstration of proficiency?"

Not to mention that (at least where I've lived) you aren't required to have a license to own or purchase a car, only to operate it on public thoroughfares - and there are exemptions to that for farm vehicles and the children who operate them.

Operating a vehicle on a public street is a priviliege, as the courts have held numerous times.  Not a right.

The same is not true of firearms, and much of the tension in our segment of society is those who wish to morph it into a privilege, vice a fundamental right. 

Mixing the two actions can thus become problematic.  That said - licensing concealed carry is, in a sense, analgous to the driving paradigm, in that you can argue it doesn't restrict your right to own the weapon on your own property, but does license you to "operate" it in public spaces.

Still lots of problems with that view, such as for people who don't own the space the live in, and what are the rights between landlord and tenant in those situations, etc.  But now I'm just rambling.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83026 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83026 Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:54:20 -0600 Comment from steveH on 2009-01-18
How was it wrong?

The wrongest (I know it's not a word) part was the " lots of people die in firearms accidents" assertion.

Which is just not true. Recreational shooting is a very safe sport. And if injuries involved are any indication, it is not "easier to misuse than to use properly". Heck, you can easily train an elementary school age child to be a safe (supervised) shooter in a couple of hours. With reinforcement.

I agree with you that education is important, and should be as close to universal as possible. Something like driver's education in high school, at least as far as being universal.

Learning to be a safe shooter isn't hard at all. It's not a complex issue, there are a very few simple rules involved.

A lesser problem was "We don't allow people to drive automobiles without certification...why shouldn't firearm ownership require a demonstration of proficiency?"

Driver's licensing and motor vehicle registration are primarily government "revenue enhancement" programs. You're certainly right, though, that motor vehicles are demonstrably more dangerous than civilian-owned firearms.

The problem with what you seem to have been advocating is that it's hard to find a firearm owner registration system that hasn't been abused by the controlling agency to a greater or lesser degree. There are better ways to deal with the education and competency issue than looking toward government solutions.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83023 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83023 Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:23:00 -0600 Comment from Josh on 2009-01-17
Exactly.  And the levels of stupidity people achieve never fail to amaze me.

]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83015 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83015 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:12:16 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2009-01-17 Well done, Gunner! John, you tell him I said that, hear? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83014 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83014 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:12:14 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-01-17

Three days ago, Gunner brought me a foreleg.  I'm pretty sure a coyote foreleg.

And from the overall condition and context of both the foreleg and Gunner - I think it was a trophy, being presented for the bounty.

And it was an adult sized foreleg, not an easy one.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83013 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83013 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:35:46 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2009-01-17 P.s. Or, as I say to my kitty when I let him out at night, "Be careful out there; there is an endless supply of bad humans!" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83012 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83012 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:29:53 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2009-01-17 Well, to be pedantic, sometimes people do smart things with guns and kill people who have it coming. There are some right awkward bastards out there. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83011 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83011 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 21:24:13 -0600 Comment from BillT on 2009-01-17
Heh.

Consumer advocates estimate that there have been at least 33 deaths and 84 serious injuries in recent years from stoves that suddenly tip over and burn or kill someone underneath.

Most of the victims have been children scalded by whatever is bubbling on top of the stove, or elderly people trying to get something in or out of the oven.
Neither guns nor stoves kill people -- people doing dumb things with guns and stoves kill people.

]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83006 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83006 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:18:25 -0600 Comment from MAJ Mike on 2009-01-17 Governments prefer unarmed peasants. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83002 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83002 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:44:27 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2009-01-17 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83000 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-83000 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:20:32 -0600 Comment from Josh on 2009-01-17
How is it wrong?  I'm just saying that the proper use of a firearm (proper safety protocols, how to shoot straight, etc), requires some learning and practice, like any other tool.  What is wrong with that statement?  Do you propose that every person instinctively knows how to properly and safely use a firearm?  I know that I had to learn.  I learn fast, but I wasn't double-tapping targets in the head at 25 yards the first time I picked up a gun.  I just took my friend to the range for the first time the other day, and he started to do something unsafe (I don't even remember what it was anymore) but I was there and pointed it out to him, and now he knows.  I'm not talking about stuff I "saw on TV", I'm just talking about practical experience and common sense.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82996 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82996 Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:46:43 -0600 Comment from steveH on 2009-01-16
Josh, everything you've learned on TV or in the movies is wrong. And your statement is an example what someone is likely to "learn" from them.

For starters, shooting sports are safer for the participants (and observers) than most popular participant sports. Period.

For as long as records have been kept in the U.S., since at least the early 1930s, accidental gun-related deaths have decreased, both in terms of rates and raw numbers, up to the present time. The latest numbers from the CDC are for 2005: 786 total, out of a population of 286M.

Just for a bit of perspective; accidental motor vehicle-related deaths for the same year were 45,343.

Oh yeah, consider this: Total number of .22 rimfire rounds sold in one year in the U.S? Approximately 4 Billion. Consider that number.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82993 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82993 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:46:13 -0600 Comment from Josh on 2009-01-16
20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

Guns ARE easier to misuse (not so much for the purposes of murder, but rather in accidental shootings) than to use properly.  I believe that most everybody should have access to firearms, in fact I think it is a citizen's responsibility, but I also believe that we need both cultural and legal changes.

We don't allow people to drive automobiles without certification (in fact, I believe we need more thorough testing, like Germany) because they can be extremely dangerous if misused...why shouldn't firearm ownership require a demonstration of proficiency?

And I firmly believe that parents need to be raising children with a healthy respect and understanding of firearms as tools that can be used and misused, instead of teaching them that firearms are mysterious magical devices to be feared.  Nobody ever dies in a kitchen stove accident, but lots of people die in firearms accidents.  Every single American child is taught how a stove works and how it can hurt him.  If EVERY child were taught how firearms work and how they can hurt them, nobody would accidentally shoot themselves or anybody (or anything) else.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82991 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82991 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 22:40:22 -0600 Comment from Yu-Ain Gonnano on 2009-01-16 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82981 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82981 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:27:06 -0600 Comment from 11B40 on 2009-01-16
I'd rather  get caught with my gun than without it. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82970 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2009/01/okay_its_full_o.html#comment-82970 Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:25:13 -0600