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H&I Fires* 16 Jan 2009

Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite.
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First up - a "Well Done!" to the pilot, Captain Chesley Sullenberger, and co-pilot Jeff Skiles of US Airways Flight 1549 for that gob-smackingly truly awesome (vice the degraded usage of our day) display of aeronautical skill - and checking his aircraft not once, but twice to ensure all passengers were off the bird before she sank into the Hudson.  Second up: a "Well Done!" to the passengers and cabin crew, who kept their heads and worked together to take advantage of that expertise.  Third up: a "Well Done!" to the Captains and crew of the vessels which went to the rescue without waiting to be told to - and their passengers who pitched in and helped.  Fourth up: a "Well Done!" to the first responders, who, wrapping up the efforts of all the others into a nice package, presented us with an astounding accident in which no one was killed or seriously injured.  Fifth up: a "Well Done!" to the engineers and builders of the Airbus A320.  That bird took a *lot* of stress in her final minutes of flight, much less when those fans hanging down off the wing bit into the water of the Hudson and the impact didn't just rip her to pieces.  Sixth up: A whack of the cluebat for the reporter who asked Mayor Bloomberg, "what can you do to assure people this will not happen again?"   As if the Mayor is going to have a meaningful answer up and ready that isn't just platitudinal noise.  I like the Old Gaijin's question, which he posed to me in email: "So, what the hell y'all gonna be doing 'bout them al-Qaeda trained suicide geese out at the airport?"

Heh.  Clearly the answer is - we quit aviation.  Reduces the carbon footprint, reduces the ozone damage from high flying, saves kerosene, and won't disturb the birds, who were there first and how dare we.  Sorry, my inner PETA got loose for a moment.  -the Armorer

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Now, time for another pet peeve of mine.

Australia awards her first Victoria Cross in 40 years.  Trooper Mark Donaldson of the Australian Special Air Service (SAS - Who Dares Wins!).  From The Australian:
 

"During a prolonged and effective enemy ambush on numerous occasions he deliberately drew the enemy’s fire in order to allow wounded soldiers to be moved to safety.

“As the battle raged around him he saw that a coalition force interpreter was lying motionless on exposed ground.

“With complete disregard for his own safety, on his initiative and alone, Trooper Donaldson ran back 80 metres across exposed ground to rescue the interpreter and carry him back to vehicle.

“Trooper Donaldson then rejoined his patrol and continued to engage the enemy while remaining exposed to heavy enemy fire.”
 

Well Done, Trooper Donaldson!  I'll be happy to initiate the salute, should we ever meet.

What's my gripe?  The Brits and Australians have now both managed to hang their highest award for valor upon living recipients, whereas for the US, we seem to have instituted a new medal, the Medal of Posthumous Honor.  It is a decoration awarded for fighting in desperate circumstances, beyond the ordinary.  All I know is, I read the citations of the Distinguished Service Crosses and Navy Crosses, and see actions of warriors that in other wars, at least, would have resulted in Medals of Honor.  I truly believe, consciously or unconsciously, we have a corporate reluctance in this war to award the Medal to a living recipient.   But that's just me.  -the Armorer

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Monday Morning Clacker asks a question that I ask as I go through my mail at night upon returning home from the salt mine...  -the Armorer

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Concerning Treasury Secretary Nominee Geithner's tax troubles.  1.  If we or Castle Argghhh! LLC ever get into tax trouble, I want GOP Senators (or Charles Krauthammer) on the jury.  2.  I am all for generally giving a President the people he or she asks for, even if I don't like 'em much.  But I'm not interested in hearing defenses like "it's no big deal" being offered whenthe issue in question would get Joe Blow in serious trouble - for example, were it Senator Donovan, there is simply no way Sandy Berger gets a confirmation vote from me.  Among other reasons - the fact is, that *none* of these people is indispensible.  Arlington Cemetery is full of "indispensible people" yet the Republic still tottles along, even if it does so like a spastic drunk.  -the Armorer

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I see that soon-to-be-President Obama is taking some heat in re: Gitmo.  I for one am glad to see him not painting himself into a corner where the unintended consequences of undue haste could be severe.  -the Armorer

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SWWBO has branched into Internet-based Capitalist Endeavor.  Go support her (and, indirectly, me, too!)  You know you want to.  And for those of you who are gun-nuts - if you want 'em, we can make gun-themed stuff, too... featuring your favorite bits and pieces of the Arsenal.  As an aside, I'm contemplating calendars.  -the Armorer

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*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires. Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute. Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is. The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now. Of course, now I have to call them UAS's, because someone got a Legion of Merit for the name change.Anyway, I call the post H&I Fires because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to that particular topic. Another term of art that might be appropriate is Free Fire Zone.

25 Comments

"Gob-smaking truly awesome" is a great description of Capt. Sully's feat yesterday!!

He also runs his own corporate safety business, using principles learned in aviation safety to apply to other industries.  How much you wanna bet that business is EXTREMELY busy from now on???
 
A big HOOAH to Australia!!!
And agreed John- It's a damn shame that in America you have to die to be given our highest military award.  A damn shame that wasn't the case in previous wars.  I just don't understand it...
 
It was a great job done by the pilot yesterday and a great effort by all involved that led to no fatalities and only some injuries...
This Aussie is awesome and I agree with you, we need to re-think this 'post-humous' criteria for the MOH...
I loved Beth cards and I would love to have a calendar with your arsenal :o)
 
Ha I would learn about this here.  Well done Mark Donaldson!



 
John,

Let's thank the USAF for training that pilot.  His consummate professional skill and leadership in the crisis was probably nutured and developed by the USAF.


 
If it is to be proven that Canada Geese brought down US1549, Capt H., I think we deserve an apology.

Wonder whether their fowl brains were corrupted by watching too much CBC up in Saskatoon!

Cheers!
 
John,
I'm with you on being more than a little steamed that the Medal of Honor is solely awarded posthumously these days.

You can't tell me that in 7-1/2 years of infantry combat in close quarters that not one Soldier or Marine has performed to such a level that would warrant the award.

I suspect, with no supporting data at all, that the powers that be are afraid of awarding the MOH to someone who then either publicly comes out against the war, or has embarrassing personal troubles, either before or after.
 
Greither is just crooked. What I'm really afraid of is that absolutely egregiously appallingly evil Eric Holder. He was on the wrong side in Heller, he's the butt boy of RIAA and MPAA, he managed the pointing of the MP-5 at Elian Gonzales, and facilitated the pardons of those obviously very guilty fellows from PR. And that's just off the top of my head.
 
Dunno JTG - Mebbe they were Dominicans.
 
P.s. Oh yeah, I forgot about Marc Rich. This guy is gonna get confirmed, and we are going to be SO screwed. Owhell, the Republic had a good run. Who wants to be Caesar? Anybody?
 
The issue with posthumous awards reminds me of so many famous artists etc recognised after their death yet who lived as outcasts in life.  However, here the issue may be political.

A living recipient could embarass the government by doing something criminal or political after the award is given.  A dead reciepient isn't a risk.  An awful reason IMo if this is the driving force.

There's another possibility, a very unpleasant one.  The idea that to be a hero you *must* die to achieve it.  Some people do think that way.  It's a screwed up thought pattern where the goal of living is ignored.  Where the hero is admired more for being dead than being heroic.
 
Yup, Argent, I think the Japanese Imperial Navy used to think that way. Honors for dead folks, only. Of course there were no medals for valor in any English-speaking countries until the Crimean War, it being assumed that the courage of a lion is the birthright of every Englishman, and that goes double for Americans. They used to just give medals for having been present at important battles.
 
Regarding the credit thing...no, we will never learn, America has lost any ability to learn at all, whatsoever.

Regarding the A320...hell yes.  Kickass job by everybody involved, but most of all by Cap'n Sullenberger.  Since I'm the closest thing to a proper pilot around here, everybody's been asking me all about it since yesterday afternoon.
 
Snerk. I'm really glad from context I figured out you meant wherever you are in meatspace is where you are the closest thing to a pilot, else you were gonna open yourself to one hell of a cluebat attack from all the many-hours-of-combat-flying stick-jockeys that pop in and out of this FARRP.
 
Geez, I picked up on what he *meant* right off the bat.

Must have something to do with being old and cognitive and stuff.
 
That bird took a *lot* of stress in her final minutes of flight, much less when those fans hanging down off the wing bit into the water of the Hudson...

Fan. Singular. The left one went solo, probably over the water, otherwise it'd have made even bigger headlines.

From the initial NTSB report:
"Once we get the flight data recorder it will give us the radar so we can figure out where the engine separated from the plane," said NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson.
 
Which actually means the airplane did an even better job of staying together when it hit the water.
 
Don't forget Willie Apiata, NZSAS, who was awarded The Victoria Cross for New Zealand on 2 July 2007.
 
"Snerk. I'm really glad from context I figured out you meant wherever you are in meatspace is where you are the closest thing to a pilot, else you were gonna open yourself to one hell of a cluebat attack from all the many-hours-of-combat-flying stick-jockeys that pop in and out of this FARRP."

Yeah, I'm in Utah with a bunch of teenage girls with "problems" and their various therapists...not many pilots around here haha...

 
Yeah, I'm in Utah with a bunch of teenage girls with "problems" and their various therapists...not many pilots around here haha...

Oh -- Hill AFB.

 
*rimshot*
 
FWIW from a big (630,000+ lb) jet guy,

I think what have been equally impressive to consider was what *both* those two US Air guys did up front in a very short period of time. They:

- Analyzed the situation (what happened, what procedures to accomplish, where to go, who to inform, what to say to the passengers)
- Maintained aircraft control
- Began Phase Ones (emergency procedures committed to memory)
- Tried to regain some flying power
- Prepared the airplane for ditching w/o referring to the checklist (there is one, actually, but it isn't a Phase One)
- Talked to someone to get rescue efforts underway immediately AND tell them where they were and where they were going
- Kept the cabin crew informed, and;
- Helped forestall a serious panic before and after the jet came to a stop.

Good news is, if you lose both engines, you have a backup source of power for the flight controls and electrical systems: a propeller-driven pump/generator that provides hydraulics/electrics for the flight controls and electrical power for your other systems when your motors throw up their hands and quit. Called a "RAT" (Ram Air Turbine), it's deployed into the airstream by the First Officer when that deafening silence occurs. Meanwhile, whoever's flying that leg is dumping the nose to get to best glide speed while the other is throwing switches to try to get the engines to start and declaring an emergency with Air Traffic Control (among other things).

Airbuses and other, bigger, airplanes fly better than you might think when the engines quit--they aren't rocks. For example, the Airbus 300 can go about 90 miles if it loses both engines at 35,000 feet and it takes it about 15 minutes to get to the crash site.

When you have a total, unrecoverable flameout, you in essence turn into a (relatively) inexperienced Space Shuttle pilot in a few seconds, i.e., turn yourself into a big glider pilot (with an admittedly poor glide ratio and minimal proficiency) and swap ends (nose WAY up) at the last possible moment to turn that airspeed you have into maximum lift to minimize your sink rate at impact. Watch old video of the Shuttle...screaming at the ground on a 22-degree glide path (seven times steeper than the glide slope at which your airliner approaches a runway) and then several thousand feet above the runway the pilot pulls the nose up, swaps airspeed for lift and gently rolls that thing right onto the concrete...and he has no engines at all at that point (hasn't had any for days, actually).

The US Air Captain did exactly that, making the best with what he had, and that's why I'm sure his passengers that were with him that day may feel he's grossly underpaid.
 
I have no problem with "The One" closing Gitmo.....as long as I (or someone of a like mind) get to go in first and *clean* a la Harvey Keitel in "Pulp Fiction".  Especially that bastid Abd al-Nashiri.
 
If you want to close it after I'm finished.....that's just fine.
 
Dusty - hence my *first* "Well Done!"

But thanks for the peek in the cockpit while it was happening.
 
Captain Sullenberger has a glider ticket, among his many other credentials.