We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html Fri, 06 Jan 2012 18:24:19 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Why the Army needs ALOs... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:32:05 -0600
     Heh. Well, speaking of Landing Parties, I DO happen to be qualified on the BAR.  Prolly one of the last sailors in the Atlantic Fleet to do so, but hey... give me a couple bandoliers of magazines and we're good to go :)
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81281 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81281 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:16:31 -0600 By BillT on December 6, 2008 3:20 PM
This starting to look a lot like a zipper-length contest...

Not if *you're* gonna be the only one around, it ain't.

We have *some* standards, you know.

Not a whole lot of 'em, true -- but *some*...
  Here I am baby!]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81279 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81279 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:57:36 -0600 Sand Pebbles manning for the Moat Flotilla, complete with Marine contingent!

You're gonna need more deck guns, Boq.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81278 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81278 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 01:50:42 -0600 God I miss those days.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81277 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81277 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 17:42:00 -0600 Mongo,

   Been to a few of them dances. Most interesting were at the NAS Bermuda Enlisted Club.  Followed the standard format. Young Marine decides to pick fight with old Bosun's Mate.  Throws punch. Pisses off BM. BM throws young Marine into crowd of marines who take umbrage with the whole affair, and assault in.

   Tables clear and general melee follows, looking much like a B western saloon fight scene.

    On cue, Shore Patrol shows up but only manages to muckle onto the slower ones, or those too involved to notice sirens, blue lights or whistles.  Sometimes grab folks just sitting at bar. Easy prey, them.

    Appropriate admonishments handed out by CO's and Gunny's & CPO's the next day.

    Club closed for 48 hours, so Marines and Sailors throw kegger at beach. Rinse & repeat.  :)

     The REALLY fun times were when some of Army's boys decided to crash the party.  Heh...

      I think I'll go out on town tonight......
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81275 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81275 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 16:35:35 -0600 if you had ever seen a Marine dance with a Sailor you would know that the dances are usually held in crouded bars or enlisted clubs and the Marines always lead, usually with a pool que or a broken bar stool in his hand.
Then come in the SP and ruin the fun. Doinkers .....
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81272 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81272 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:37:43 -0600 This starting to look a lot like a zipper-length contest...

Not if *you're* gonna be the only one around, it ain't.

We have *some* standards, you know.

Not a whole lot of 'em, true -- but *some*...
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81270 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81270 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:20:50 -0600
If it was a Marine operation, they would've charged the formation hollering, "Want dance! Now! I WILL LEAD!"
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81269 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81269 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:15:21 -0600 Now if this prank was a MARINE operation it would have entailed a few boys from 2nd Recon Bn dangling at the end of a SPIE rig handing out the flyers to the squids personally, along with the rendering of appropriate honors of course. But since these sailors are in fact our red headed step brothers there is no way we would do such a thing ... unless we knew we could get away with it ...

]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81267 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81267 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:03:17 -0600 This starting to look a lot like a zipper-length contest... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81266 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81266 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:03:09 -0600
Properly enunciated, announcing an unanticipated engine failure in a Huey is more like "ENFLR!"
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81265 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81265 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:58:04 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81261 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81261 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:57:08 -0600
Hey, Josh! Let me know how that "looking over the pedals through the chin bubble" works out!
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81260 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81260 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:29:12 -0600 What's so wrong with just HOVERING over the formation and letting it rip?

Two words: Engine failure.

A helicopter having an engine crap out while it's at a hover has all the aerodynamic characteristics of a fully-loaded dump truck. And about the same glide ratio. Maneuvering to avoid squishing the squids would have put him

a. onto a peaked roof, with a pitch probably 'way in excess of his slope landing limitations or

b. in the trees.

Neither would have been an appealing option.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81259 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81259 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:22:52 -0600 John,

   I have also complained about that very issue. The drill and formations at Canoe U are an embarrassment ro all the services, not just Annapolis. My only explanation is that they simply don't have the time available to practice it anymore, what with all the diversity mandates, the sexual harrassment seminars, the "What is a Shipmate to me" contests, etc.

  Jesus wept. They seem more interested in turning out Rainbow warriors than Naval warriors.

   Except for Lex's son, that is. He done alright..  :)

  respects,
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81258 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81258 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 11:01:54 -0600
Apparently "Dress and Cover" are an alien concept to the inmates of Canoe U.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81257 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81257 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 10:09:26 -0600 Oh yeah... almost forgot:

GO NAVY

BEAT ARMY
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81256 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81256 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:24:12 -0600  Hey BillT,

     What's so wrong with just HOVERING over the formation and letting it rip?

     I mean, seriously... it's not like the Middies couldn't read those big white  U. S. ARMY letters painted on the OD background..... or figure out WHO might be flying an ARMY helo over ANNAPOLIS just before the big game.. Even Plebes could manage that one.

   Sigh...  
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81255 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81255 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:20:46 -0600
Half the guys in my old outfit -- including me -- could have decorated the mids to your specifications from a thousand feet *and* kept the leaflets within CEP.

You read the winds (and there are a zillion wind indicators everywhere, if you know how to read them), figure wind drift from a thousand feet AGL and offset your flight path to compensate, approach perpendicular to the target at 60 knots, and when an upwind line extending from the leading edge of your target is even with the top of your tail rotor pedals, it's "Bombs Away, Dream Babies."

Dirt simple. I've plunked sensors -- consistently -- into a 12' diameter circle and coated a single treeline with Chieu Hoi leaflets. *Without* an ALO on the ground -- because he would have been too busy ducking rounds to get a wind reading.

*sigh*

Yet another perishable aviation skill the Army's let fall because "They did that in Vietnam and we don't do that anymore."

Don't get me started.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81252 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81252 Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:45:20 -0600
I'm certainly not saying they did a poor job of it, don't get me wrong!  And indeed, I'm familiar with the decades of difficulties we had with unguided gravity bombs, even with computerized bombsights and such.

Now in their case, with a helicopter, I probably would have started with a wind check, used that to make my first guess, and then used the most direct method...just drop the first leaflet or three by hand, watch where they go, then "fire for effect".  Artillerymen have been using that trick for generations.

I'm thinking of trying something like this using an airplane so without being able to hover and watch the first one fall, it'll take some better planning...
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81249 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81249 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:18:50 -0600
The mids did a pretty good job of holding formation, I noticed.  Then again, they were safer that way ;-)]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81247 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81247 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:47:43 -0600
To be fair "precision bombing" used to be an oxymoron. LGBs and JDAMs made that assertion moot. BUT, low-speed, high-drag (in this case, EXTREMELY low speed and EXTREMELY high drag) deliveries of unguided weapons has been problematic. Ya gotta get in amongst 'em...we we used to call "scraping 'em off the TER," e.g., REALLY low passes. 
In something as vulnerable and slow as a helo, prudence dictates a higher delivery, with all the associated errors induced. In this case, I'd say you'd have to adjust the reticle about 500 mils per knot, easily exceeding the HUD's field of view.
Since they didn't have: a HUD, an aiming reticle, bomb fall line indicator, release cue or anything else except an open door and a Mark I set of eyeballs, they didn't do too badly. I think they actually kept the spread on campus. 
How would I have done it differently? If they have an airfield, I'd dial up their ASOS and listen to the winds. If no ASOS, I'd innocently ask tower for a wind check, using a fake callsign. If no field, then the closest observation station. If you want maximum surprise, drop low before crossing the campus boundary and look at the trees. I'm sure Bill has better techniques but suffice it to say you need to estimate a wind correction and then roughly triple it before pickling.
Just a thought.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81245 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81245 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:30:49 -0600
Hmm...since we all know that the AIR FORCE is the master of precision bombing...I think we need to top that *begins scheming*
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81244 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81244 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:07:39 -0600 Dang filters at work. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81238 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81238 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 15:11:03 -0600 rolling http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81236 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81236 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:44:16 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81235 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/hi_fires_5_dec.html#comment-81235 Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:42:54 -0600