tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118- 2012-01-06T18:24:19Z We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 Movable Type 4.12 tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118 2008-12-06T05:32:05Z 2008-12-05T20:25:18Z

Why the Army needs ALOs...

The Armorer http://www.thedonovan.com Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite.

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Why the Army needs ALOs...

So we can make sure you factor in winds when dropping high-drag munitions from helos. -Attila the ALO

]]> *A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires. Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute. Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is. The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now. Of course, now I have to call them UAS's, because someone got a Legion of Merit for the name change.Anyway, I call the post H&I Fires because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to that particular topic. Another term of art that might be appropriate is Free Fire Zone.
]]> tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81281 AW1 Tim
     Heh. Well, speaking of Landing Parties, I DO happen to be qualified on the BAR.  Prolly one of the last sailors in the Atlantic Fleet to do so, but hey... give me a couple bandoliers of magazines and we're good to go :)
]]> 2008-12-07T15:16:31Z 2008-12-07T15:16:31Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81279 Maggie http://bostonmaggie.blogspot.com By BillT on December 6, 2008 3:20 PM
This starting to look a lot like a zipper-length contest...

Not if *you're* gonna be the only one around, it ain't.

We have *some* standards, you know.

Not a whole lot of 'em, true -- but *some*...
  Here I am baby!]]> 2008-12-07T14:57:36Z 2008-12-07T14:57:36Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81278 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com Sand Pebbles manning for the Moat Flotilla, complete with Marine contingent!

You're gonna need more deck guns, Boq.
]]> 2008-12-07T07:50:42Z 2008-12-07T07:50:42Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81277 Cpl Mongo God I miss those days.
]]> 2008-12-06T23:42:00Z 2008-12-06T23:42:00Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81275 AW1 Tim Mongo,

   Been to a few of them dances. Most interesting were at the NAS Bermuda Enlisted Club.  Followed the standard format. Young Marine decides to pick fight with old Bosun's Mate.  Throws punch. Pisses off BM. BM throws young Marine into crowd of marines who take umbrage with the whole affair, and assault in.

   Tables clear and general melee follows, looking much like a B western saloon fight scene.

    On cue, Shore Patrol shows up but only manages to muckle onto the slower ones, or those too involved to notice sirens, blue lights or whistles.  Sometimes grab folks just sitting at bar. Easy prey, them.

    Appropriate admonishments handed out by CO's and Gunny's & CPO's the next day.

    Club closed for 48 hours, so Marines and Sailors throw kegger at beach. Rinse & repeat.  :)

     The REALLY fun times were when some of Army's boys decided to crash the party.  Heh...

      I think I'll go out on town tonight......
]]> 2008-12-06T22:35:35Z 2008-12-06T22:35:35Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81272 Cpl Mongo if you had ever seen a Marine dance with a Sailor you would know that the dances are usually held in crouded bars or enlisted clubs and the Marines always lead, usually with a pool que or a broken bar stool in his hand.
Then come in the SP and ruin the fun. Doinkers .....
]]> 2008-12-06T21:37:43Z 2008-12-06T21:37:43Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81270 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com This starting to look a lot like a zipper-length contest...

Not if *you're* gonna be the only one around, it ain't.

We have *some* standards, you know.

Not a whole lot of 'em, true -- but *some*...
]]> 2008-12-06T21:20:50Z 2008-12-06T21:20:50Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81269 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com
If it was a Marine operation, they would've charged the formation hollering, "Want dance! Now! I WILL LEAD!"
]]> 2008-12-06T21:15:21Z 2008-12-06T21:15:21Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81267 Cpl Mongo Now if this prank was a MARINE operation it would have entailed a few boys from 2nd Recon Bn dangling at the end of a SPIE rig handing out the flyers to the squids personally, along with the rendering of appropriate honors of course. But since these sailors are in fact our red headed step brothers there is no way we would do such a thing ... unless we knew we could get away with it ...

]]> 2008-12-06T21:03:17Z 2008-12-06T21:03:17Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81266 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com This starting to look a lot like a zipper-length contest... 2008-12-06T21:03:09Z 2008-12-06T21:03:09Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81265 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com
Properly enunciated, announcing an unanticipated engine failure in a Huey is more like "ENFLR!"
]]> 2008-12-06T20:58:04Z 2008-12-06T20:58:04Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81261 Attila http://www.thedonovan.com 2008-12-06T19:57:08Z 2008-12-06T19:57:08Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81260 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com
Hey, Josh! Let me know how that "looking over the pedals through the chin bubble" works out!
]]> 2008-12-06T19:29:12Z 2008-12-06T19:29:12Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81259 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com What's so wrong with just HOVERING over the formation and letting it rip?

Two words: Engine failure.

A helicopter having an engine crap out while it's at a hover has all the aerodynamic characteristics of a fully-loaded dump truck. And about the same glide ratio. Maneuvering to avoid squishing the squids would have put him

a. onto a peaked roof, with a pitch probably 'way in excess of his slope landing limitations or

b. in the trees.

Neither would have been an appealing option.
]]> 2008-12-06T19:22:52Z 2008-12-06T19:22:52Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81258 AW1 Tim John,

   I have also complained about that very issue. The drill and formations at Canoe U are an embarrassment ro all the services, not just Annapolis. My only explanation is that they simply don't have the time available to practice it anymore, what with all the diversity mandates, the sexual harrassment seminars, the "What is a Shipmate to me" contests, etc.

  Jesus wept. They seem more interested in turning out Rainbow warriors than Naval warriors.

   Except for Lex's son, that is. He done alright..  :)

  respects,
]]> 2008-12-06T17:01:54Z 2008-12-06T17:01:54Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81257 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com
Apparently "Dress and Cover" are an alien concept to the inmates of Canoe U.]]> 2008-12-06T16:09:26Z 2008-12-06T16:09:26Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81256 AW1 Tim Oh yeah... almost forgot:

GO NAVY

BEAT ARMY
]]> 2008-12-06T15:24:12Z 2008-12-06T15:24:12Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81255 AW1 Tim  Hey BillT,

     What's so wrong with just HOVERING over the formation and letting it rip?

     I mean, seriously... it's not like the Middies couldn't read those big white  U. S. ARMY letters painted on the OD background..... or figure out WHO might be flying an ARMY helo over ANNAPOLIS just before the big game.. Even Plebes could manage that one.

   Sigh...  
]]> 2008-12-06T15:20:46Z 2008-12-06T15:20:46Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81252 BillT http://www.thedonovan.com
Half the guys in my old outfit -- including me -- could have decorated the mids to your specifications from a thousand feet *and* kept the leaflets within CEP.

You read the winds (and there are a zillion wind indicators everywhere, if you know how to read them), figure wind drift from a thousand feet AGL and offset your flight path to compensate, approach perpendicular to the target at 60 knots, and when an upwind line extending from the leading edge of your target is even with the top of your tail rotor pedals, it's "Bombs Away, Dream Babies."

Dirt simple. I've plunked sensors -- consistently -- into a 12' diameter circle and coated a single treeline with Chieu Hoi leaflets. *Without* an ALO on the ground -- because he would have been too busy ducking rounds to get a wind reading.

*sigh*

Yet another perishable aviation skill the Army's let fall because "They did that in Vietnam and we don't do that anymore."

Don't get me started.
]]> 2008-12-06T07:45:20Z 2008-12-06T07:45:20Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81249 Josh
I'm certainly not saying they did a poor job of it, don't get me wrong!  And indeed, I'm familiar with the decades of difficulties we had with unguided gravity bombs, even with computerized bombsights and such.

Now in their case, with a helicopter, I probably would have started with a wind check, used that to make my first guess, and then used the most direct method...just drop the first leaflet or three by hand, watch where they go, then "fire for effect".  Artillerymen have been using that trick for generations.

I'm thinking of trying something like this using an airplane so without being able to hover and watch the first one fall, it'll take some better planning...
]]> 2008-12-06T04:18:50Z 2008-12-06T04:18:50Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81247 Barb http://barbette.blogspot.com
The mids did a pretty good job of holding formation, I noticed.  Then again, they were safer that way ;-)]]> 2008-12-06T00:47:43Z 2008-12-06T00:47:43Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81245 Attila of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com
To be fair "precision bombing" used to be an oxymoron. LGBs and JDAMs made that assertion moot. BUT, low-speed, high-drag (in this case, EXTREMELY low speed and EXTREMELY high drag) deliveries of unguided weapons has been problematic. Ya gotta get in amongst 'em...we we used to call "scraping 'em off the TER," e.g., REALLY low passes. 
In something as vulnerable and slow as a helo, prudence dictates a higher delivery, with all the associated errors induced. In this case, I'd say you'd have to adjust the reticle about 500 mils per knot, easily exceeding the HUD's field of view.
Since they didn't have: a HUD, an aiming reticle, bomb fall line indicator, release cue or anything else except an open door and a Mark I set of eyeballs, they didn't do too badly. I think they actually kept the spread on campus. 
How would I have done it differently? If they have an airfield, I'd dial up their ASOS and listen to the winds. If no ASOS, I'd innocently ask tower for a wind check, using a fake callsign. If no field, then the closest observation station. If you want maximum surprise, drop low before crossing the campus boundary and look at the trees. I'm sure Bill has better techniques but suffice it to say you need to estimate a wind correction and then roughly triple it before pickling.
Just a thought.]]> 2008-12-05T23:30:49Z 2008-12-05T23:30:49Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81244 Josh
Hmm...since we all know that the AIR FORCE is the master of precision bombing...I think we need to top that *begins scheming*
]]> 2008-12-05T22:07:39Z 2008-12-05T22:07:39Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81238 John of Argghhh! http://www.thedonovan.com Dang filters at work. 2008-12-05T21:11:03Z 2008-12-05T21:11:03Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81236 fdcol63 rolling 2008-12-05T20:44:16Z 2008-12-05T20:44:16Z tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.10118-comment:81235 fdcol63 2008-12-05T20:42:54Z 2008-12-05T20:42:54Z