We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html Sat, 24 Mar 2012 15:24:02 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2012 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:12:19 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82266 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82266 Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:03:53 -0600
I was referring to those periods ante-bellum, when diplomacy is still being played out.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82243 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82243 Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:40:36 -0600
Grumpy, you are condemning many people! Wait a minute, the purpose of a test is to reveal the truth. The truth will condemn some actions and vindicate other actions. Note, that I am talking about condemning actions and not people. This is a major difference.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82241 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82241 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:25:38 -0600
It's a 2-way street ...... and too often, it seems that WE're bending over backward to keep from offending THEM. How about some reciprocation?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82236 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82236 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:31:12 -0600
@Argent - 29 Dec 2008 2:05AM   You write, "I guess this is a complex matter...", If you are talking about the language or the overall battlefield situation, that, Sir, is called an "understatement".  You would be surprised by the list of names that feel the same way.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82235 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82235 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 17:04:45 -0600 language matters.  How we interpret the world around us both shapes and is shaped by how we communicate.  And a common understanding of concepts requires a common basis of understanding in communication.



]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82226 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82226 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 09:19:51 -0600
I had to look up aorist and it has taken me a while to understand the meaning.  I found this site the most useful if anyone else is in the dark too;

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Aorist-tense

Yes 'discipline' is an excellent word for what I mean.  It has unfortunately been ground in too much as a word of action upon others which has distorted it's meaning to many people.  But it's also self applied.  'Self discipline' some say to emphasize that point.  It's important I think to practice it before we show it and help others with it.  I think you've got a good point about what leadership is.

I walked a path of very high self discipline.  I learnt the hard way that this isn't always wise.  It's very important to know some flexibility and even more so to know what to be disciplined about.  That last part is very difficult.  Discipline separates thought and action.  Controlling our thoughts is difficult, perhaps impossible but contolling our actions is not.  Discipline is where we control our actions by deciding which thoughts to act on.  Therefore (from this rather simian point of view) the core challenge of discipline is in determining worthy actions from unworthy actions.  The rest is merely luck and opportunity.

Discipline is unpopular these days.  We have the past of discipline misused such as with the Nazis and so many others.  It's interesting how many men who beat their kids and wives to 'discipline' them lack that very quality which is part of why they are beating them in the first place.  We have a time of plenty where we our incentive to be disciplined is weaker fueled by self indulgence humans were probably incapable of until now. 

Do young men learn real discipline?  In the past they learnt to be submissive from beatings and in the present they learn self indulgence and apathy.  Perhaps it time they learn discipline as self control, instead of these.

Loosing face is important in the West too I think.  Especially at social and political levels.  Many of us also have post death reward attitudes.  Chrisitians think of heaven.  But they don't try to bring it about early in the name of God and murdering other people.  I think that's a critical difference.




]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82222 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82222 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 02:05:09 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82221 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82221 Mon, 29 Dec 2008 00:05:04 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82220 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82220 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 23:21:36 -0600
The US and the West controls itself.  All the wild accusations of holocausts, mass murders could become reality without such control.  It would have great impact in the ME if it were done but though it might simpistically seem a sign of strength, it would be a sign of weakness.  Instead we show much strength.  We have both the incredible power and the self control.  One problem of course is the will..

Because we excercise self control in the wrong situations as well.  When we should fight or should not wring our hands we do so, like in places Grumpy mentions.  I see this from the UK a great deal.  This *is* a sign of weakness.  Compassion does not mean stupidity.

One thing that I learnt before this war from an Iranian was that the country and city is as different as chalk and cheese.  The country is tribal and under nominal national control at best.  The cities, on the other hand, are far more like the West.  In Afghanistan that probably only means Kabul.
]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82219 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82219 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:36:33 -0600
Just a thought: The worst thing you can do in the Eastern mindset is to embarrass, because it is an assault on family or tribe. The revenge for such an embarrassment is upon the whole family. You really begin to understand some of the insanity going on in the ME. The Western peoples and their media need to have a long debate with consequences on coverage of warfare. We need to discuss status of peoples and structures. The primary determinate factor should be usage. If it is being used in combat, it is "fair game". This would include hospitals  with patients, schools with students, all sacred places and even whole regions.

Do I expect this to ever be applied? No, but if stirs up some discussion. I've met my goal.

Grumpy]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82216 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82216 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 18:11:22 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82207 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/12/flies_in_amber.html#comment-82207 Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:58:11 -0600