Comments for M26 Combat Shotgun

M26 Combat Shotgun

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:41:07 -0600

Heh. Now here's some accessorizing I can get into. M-26 Photo by PEO Soldier May 23, 2008 The Army expects to field 35,000 M-26 12-gauge modular accessory shotgun systems in the fall to infantry, MPs and Special Forces operators in theater. The MASS was designed to attach to an M-16 or M-4 but also comes with a collapsible stock to be used as a stand-alone weapon. That pic is impressive enough - but when you see it closer to full size, it gets even more impressive. Well, until you read what's written on the side of the shotgun receiver. I still wouldn't want to stare one of these down in an alley or small room... a real one, anyway. I'll take that one for a Arsenal display when they're done with it, however. Update: For those, like Argent, who can't read the receiver in the linked pic above - here's a hopefully better version.

Comment from Grimmy on 2008-10-18

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 13:03:31 -0600

V5:

I have always had the assumption that a military assault rifle is primarily designed for infantry to use as a war fighting tool.

The buckshot wont kill anyone any deader than the rifle rounds will. Rifle rounds also have the added usability of being viable for all ranges from point blank to near the limit of unaided vision.

The grenade launcher attachment is good in that it gives indirect and hard target engagement utility at the rifle squad level. There's nothing a shotgun attachment can do for an infantryman at war that a grenade launcher cant do, and do better.

The rest of the things you mention are more aligned to LEO type utility. Designing a weapon attachment for LEO use has points of merit, but I fail to understand how it can add any value to an already over encumbered infantryman.

For counter insurgency, it may have some usefulness. But, even though counter insurgency is all the rage in the popular discussion these days, it is not the end all, be all of our current war fighting needs. And even in counter insurgency operations, infantrymen have to be able to operate in the same ol' hard fight mode in both urban and rural settings as in all wars of the past.
In my opinion, a shotgun attachment is far outmatched by the utility of the grenade launcher attachment that already exists and is well tested, at least as applies to use by infantry.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-10-18

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:26:41 -0600

Cannonshop - might have been a Knight Armament Masterkey.?

As for why do we find ourselves with this thing?

The troops asked for a door-breaker.

Someone decided that giving up a rifle and inserting a shotgun, or, alternatively, just *adding* a shotgun to the squad wasn't the way we wanted to go.

Then, of course, we had to let the Good Idea Fairy take a shot at it, too - but we did at least keep it a common caliber.

But I'd have to go rummage through stuff to find that out. I think I'll just ask PM Soldier Weapon what the Official Story is, and see what pops up.

Comment from BillT on 2008-10-18

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:21:28 -0600

What can you do with an automatic rifle/shotgun combo that you can't do with an automatic rifle?

Get featured here.

Unless you're a LEO who sticks said auto rifle's mag in backwards...

Comment from Cannonshop on 2008-10-18

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:37:46 -0600

It looks like something I've seen before... (digging through various junk)
Oh, yeah. The movie "Predator" starring Arnold Schwarzennegger. One of the characters had a shotgun mounted under the barrel of his M-16.

I'm not sure how practical this rig is, honestly. To use the shotgun parts, you've got a "Reach around" problem that (censored) with the ergonomics something fierce, plus the huge weed-and-seed-catcher hanging off the forearm-which forearm is interacting with the barrel since that's how AR-15 style rifles that DON'T have the aftermarket grips are set up, plus the whole assembly looks like a real kidney-killer when you're not carrying it on an "around the front" sling. Over all, it looks to me like a real pain in the ass to actually USE.

Intimidating looking as hell, though, and a few photos of guys carrying these things should be good for recruiting posters and movie makers.

Comment from V5 on 2008-10-18

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 01:03:52 -0600

"What can you do with an automatic rifle/shotgun combo that you can't do with an automatic rifle?"

I ask, what can you do with an automatic rifle/40mm combo that you can't do with an automatic rifle?

To answer your question, it's called versatility.

1. Fin stabilized OC tear gas projectile
2. Bean bags and/or marking dye bean bags
3. Fin stabilized Rubber rocket
4. Rubber buckshot (aka stingers)
5. Flash Bang ammo
6. Pepper Spray ammo
7. Flechette rounds
8. Door breaching round
9. Dual load, slug and buck shot
10. Dual slug round
11. Armor piercing sabot
12. Good old fashioned 00 Buck or Deer Slug/Sabot

Just to name a few.

Comment from Rivrdog on 2008-10-18

Sat, 18 Oct 2008 00:32:08 -0600

I have also been armed with an 870 as a cop, and the feeling is quite nice. My question: with something like the AA-12 assault (full-auto) SG available, why would you even need a poodleshooter attached to it?

Comment from Grimmy on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:39:26 -0600

What can you do with an automatic rifle/shotgun combo that you can't do with an automatic rifle? Well, besides add more weight to the weapon, another something with moving parts to malfunction, and of course, an additional ammo to lug around.

Comment from there on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:04:40 -0600

Well, as a former cop who never actually went through a door with my 870, but thought about it a lot, looking at the image on the Wiki link above, that's one helluva long, and complex switch from one trigger to the other. I think you'd end up not using one or the other at all in an given situation. Nice to have a choice, I guess, but unless you're training, or fighting every day or so, I'd want to keep it simple, but that's just me.

Comment from XBradTC on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:56:34 -0600

I still haven't gotten around to posting on the .50. Figured the theft ain't so bad if I give it a day or so.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 13:25:43 -0600

Where else would you steal your content?

;^ )

Comment from XBradTC on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:30:46 -0600

I don't know why I bother blogging, when you keep posting all the stuff I wanna post.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:43:52 -0600

Argent - yes, at this point. It was, I assume, serviceable at some point (hence the term "demil") but was demilled for some reason, and is now used as a prop.

Comment from Argent on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:19:54 -0600

Does that mean it's like a prop?

Comment from Grumpy on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 11:01:43 -0600

Can't you just hear the chatter, English translation? This is one terrorist talking to another, it would sound something this. "Do you smell something funny? It really stinks!" "SMELL IT, I'm sitting in it."

For what it's worth, YES, you'll get somebody's attention. But for them, not fast enough.

Grumpy

Comment from Ronin1817 on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:58:19 -0600

Wikipedia has a high res image of the mounting system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:XM26_2_highRes.jpg

Comment from RetRsvMike on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:54:26 -0600

Rommel goggles!!!

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:49:39 -0600

Oh - and despite my cavils, I'd still take one.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:47:07 -0600

Not that it matters much in the up-close-and-personal fight, but if that M4's barrel isn't floated, his zero is going to wander to somewhere new every time he pulls the trigger on that shotgun.

That won't matter fighting up 5th Avenue, but when you get to Central Park...

Comment from Pogue on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:22:05 -0600

What is with the fascination with hanging extra garbage on a rifle? I'll take an 870 with a slug barrel and call it fine in an urban environment. They make the M-4 to "reduce size and weight" and then someone takes one and puts a supressor, SureFire light, vertical grip, laser and Aimpoint plus backup iron sights on it, along with an attached extra magazine. (Honest, I've really seen a 101 AB troop carrying exactly that.) It's supposed to be a rifle, not a Swiss Army Knife! Grrrrr...... (OK, switching to decaf now...)

Comment from Heartless Libertarian on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:19:47 -0600

It does look like the extra mag night cause ejection-related malfunctions. I'm almost positive that, if the ejection port cover was closed when the mags were inserted like that, it won't be able to fully open.

If the SCOTUS were to be of like mind with me (and a lot of other gun enthusiast and bloggers), the M26 should be the final nail in the coffin of the NFA. The US military now fields, or is soon to field in the case of the M26, as infantry equipment, a short barrelled rifle (M4-14.5"), multiple full-auto weapons, and now a short barrelled shotgun.

Comment from Ronin1817 on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:07:11 -0600

With the rifle magazine rambo clipped up like in this photo, is there an interference issue with the ejection port for the rifle? Not being as experienced as some of the posters here I may be completely off base.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:51:57 -0600

'Non-firing demil' is what I believe it says.

Comment from V5 on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:24:16 -0600

Nonfiring something or other.

Sweet looking mock-up though. As a former MP (and cop) I'd much rather have the 12 Gauge for MOUT (and other missions) over the 40mm. Nothing like a slug or two... or maybe some 00 Buckshot... to get a bad-guy's attention. *GRIN*

Paul

Comment from Argent on 2008-10-17

Fri, 17 Oct 2008 08:13:51 -0600

I really can't read that.