Morbuck 54, a new (and perhaps not long-term) reader had this to say on the "Lions and tigers and Soldier's Oh my!" post:
I usually, (but not always I admit) make an effort to try to help out with acronym-speak. As someone who has lived in or near the military for his entire life, from conception through to today, I admit it can be hard to look at some things and realize that it will be greek to an outsider. More difficult is writing about military missions like the consequence management mission of DSCA (Defense Support to the Civil Authority), and having to explain Northern Command, and Army North (NORTHCOM and ARNORTH respectively) in addition to explaining what a Unified Command is, and still keep the post from turning into a novelette. All of which, in a way, supports Morbuck's contention of the downside to a volunteer professional military - though one hopes it doesn't lead to a conclusion of "therefore we should have a conscripter non-professional military." But it could mean building that lexicon for this place might not be a bad idea. Or linking to an existing one. There there's the flip side: I have an appreciation for the rules that USA Today writers function under - when you have to find a way to convey a complex subject, in terms easily understood by the general public, in limited space.
Bill's response was, as ever, succinct and wrapped it up nicely:
Whattaya think, y'all?
I just wandered in, and I realize that this blog is essentially by and for military people. But I got to say that spreading your message to us non-military types is not helped by all the acronyms. Yes, you spell out the names, and that makes it clearer. And yes, in the end, I unders and your basic point. But I'm feeling like it gave me more of a headache than it was really worth. I don't really understand your world - and I'll venture to say that I try harder than most people. But I'll also venture to say that you don't understand mine. Perhaps this is one of the downsides to an all volunteer professional military.
I usually, (but not always I admit) make an effort to try to help out with acronym-speak. As someone who has lived in or near the military for his entire life, from conception through to today, I admit it can be hard to look at some things and realize that it will be greek to an outsider. More difficult is writing about military missions like the consequence management mission of DSCA (Defense Support to the Civil Authority), and having to explain Northern Command, and Army North (NORTHCOM and ARNORTH respectively) in addition to explaining what a Unified Command is, and still keep the post from turning into a novelette. All of which, in a way, supports Morbuck's contention of the downside to a volunteer professional military - though one hopes it doesn't lead to a conclusion of "therefore we should have a conscripter non-professional military." But it could mean building that lexicon for this place might not be a bad idea. Or linking to an existing one. There there's the flip side: I have an appreciation for the rules that USA Today writers function under - when you have to find a way to convey a complex subject, in terms easily understood by the general public, in limited space.
Bill's response was, as ever, succinct and wrapped it up nicely:
But I'll also venture to say that you don't understand mine.
That depends on your milieu. A lot of us are professionals in other fields, too, or have cross-discipline skills requiring us to keep up with doings in the non-mil world -- so, while I wouldn't be able to follow the shop-talk of a couple of thoracic surgeons, I'm right at home in the "worlds* of air transportation folks, aquaculturists, hardscapers and animal trainers, among others. Which is pretty eclectic, and I wouldn't have gotten the intro into those areas if I *hadn't* been in the military.
You've got a point about the MilSpeak, though. However, the counterpoint is that a lot of the readers visit for that specific reason -- a quick language refresher.
Drop in often enough and you'll pick up a useful smattering of Latin, too...
Whattaya think, y'all?
Drop me a line at xbradtc at yahoo.com and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
It's even worse for the non-Navy types, since Navalese requires an entirely new dictionary for "regular" nomenclature, not just the acronyms. I was fortunate in coming from a long line of Navy men and so had some small abilityies with the vernacular. It was still a bit of a challenge at forst, however.
Nowadays, the reverse is true. I find myself saying "I'm going topside" instead of "upstairs". Or talking about polishing the brightwork, turning on the overhead lamps, etc. Hard habit to break. :)
As to Bill's comments, I agree. I can converse on all factors of ASW (anti-submarine warfare) or the evolving concepts of tactical doctrine between 1846 through the 1861 and 1872 Army Regulations, the employment of direct-fire artillery, the logistical needs of an 1861-1865 Army Corps, Medical Corps organisation and the field use of medical assets between 1846 through the 1st World War, The changing music scene in the US from the blues of the early 20th century through the blending of blues, gospel, country, and the rise of rock, the ancient musical scales and conepts (Greek and Roman), Shakespeare's History Plays, Classical Greek and Roman literature, The campaigns of Alexander, the works of Procopius, and other sorts of conversation starters :)
You'll find a surprising level of education and intellect within military circles. It's what you get from an all volunteer force.
Respects,
Sounds likes some kind of really "comprehensive" exercise machine. LOL
For example the FDC should be called "Dem dooods in dat tent with them maps and stuff who calculate (can I say calculate?) shooting stuff for the big guns.
It is not to be confused with the "COC" which is as we all know "Dat otter tent where dem dooods give instructions and directions (can I use those words?) to them other dooods who are movin and shootin.
So I propose that Morbuck put himself in charge of decoding all military terms so we can all know what they mean.
While I never served in the military, and haven't worked in any military associated civilian jobs, I don't find the acronym usage frustrating - especially since the guys here and many of the other milblogs I enjoy take the time to add definitions (and often context). I compensate in another way - by reading a smattering of military fiction. Perhaps some of that reading gave me enough basis to avoid the initial glazed-eyes impact, or maybe it's just a difference in motivation.
I will say that I read the occasional post here, and at Mudville Gazette and Blackfive, long before I started commenting. Largely because I felt that I was unqualified to insert my opinion. Once I started adding comments, of course, the warm reception here cleared away that concern :-)
*comment deleted for Rulez violation*
Further, there is nothing wrong with Navy jargon. I understand them. They understand me.
Your point on spreading the message to non-military types is important. Some military blogs are keen to do just that and have to be mindful of their jargon otherwise the message just won't make it through. It's hard for some of them on this matter because it's their comfort zone and they are proud of their military service, and jargon is part of the whole deal. And of course they often hang out with other jargon users reinforcing its use.
It's fair to say I've been on here a while now and I still don't get parts of what they go on about, like when they talk about weaponry details but of course I have picked up a fair bit over time. One of the keys is interest really, one picks up any language better on an interested basis. So really one reason I don't get the weaponry details is lack of interest and that relates to the What's-in-it-for-me syndrome because I can't relate any use out of such. After all I don't have bangsticks to play with at home and have never come across one before.
However, it can be useful to understand some of these details. I came to the Castle for a fairly particular reason and I guess that could be summed up as challenging my beliefs and understanding the philosophy here. You can't do that without understanding at least some of the terminology.
There's two places that spring to my mind which help.
XBradTC runs a fairly informative blog with a much lower jargon hurdle.
There's also a few direct jargon sites. Like this marine one. Failing that you can just ask what the such and such means.
Actually, now that I think about English isn't much more than one big bag of jargon.
And bein' *hawt* didn't hurt, either...
As someone who just over four years ago didn't know anyone in the military, didn't (still don't) read military fiction, and was what I call "a total civilian," I will attempt to be polite...
Spelling out acronyms the first time they appear is something we should probably be more careful about when we write. However... it takes about 60 seconds with Google to either find the acronym itself (search: military NORTHCOM) or one of the many sites out there that translate standard military acronyms (search: miltiary acronym dicitionary). You can even find detailed acronym dictionaries for each service branch.
But as others have said, it's more than just acronyms. Although some services (Navy) are more challenging than others, all the services have a non-acronym vocabulary that must be learned. And so to even with what I've learned, I find I must at times rely on coxtent up to 30 percent of the time for understanding when I'm in a conversation comprised of professionals in a single service branch.
So if you want to learn something new, you're gonna have to stretch your brain a little. If you're intelligent enough to write that coherent and articulate note that started this post, you're intelligent enough to use the tools you've been given to learn something new--context, effort, Google, and polite requests when you're confused.
How the hell do you think I went in four years from totally ignorant civilian to someone who has had military wives tell me, "You know more acronyms/buzzwords than I do!"
Argent - someday, when one of us wins the lottery, you'll have to come visit, and we'll cure you of that "After all I don't have bangsticks to play with at home and have never come across one before." problem, as we've happily done for others.
If you ever feel like doing up a post on the subject, I'll be happy to publish it!
It's the military. It's always been full of acronyms. Well, at least in modern history. Who really wants to type or say the multi-syllabic long hand for MRLS when MRLS works just fine... or ELF... or HOTAS?
And who in business wants to type out EBITDA?
Bottom line, you've provided us civvies with a forum with which to sponge up on information and perspectives provided from someone who's been there. And if we have a question and can't google or wiki "it" to discover the acronym, we should do our part and speak up.
Maybe, to be more user friendly, when using an acronym include a hyperlink to a page further describing what you're talking about. Maybe a wikipedia or the like? Not to mention that seeing is believing. Quality footage or photos are always a plus. =)
Thanks for all you do here.
google it, download it, consult it. you'll get the hang of it.
(JP stands for Joint Publication, DOD is Department of Defense)
The real reason my jargonation is so low was, as a grunt, I hate writing big words.
One of your readers sent me a long email asking about how best to interact on milblogs. She had some bad experiences with people telling her "it's a service thing, you wouldn't get it" which to me, kind of defeats the whole point of a milblog. I've got an audience of mostly military types, which is funny, because, as much as I love 'em, they aren't the target audience. I want to find the mom of a soldier, or uncle or what have you, that doesn't understand half of what they hear. I want to be a translator.
Very cool, XBradTC!
It's the "in clear" stuff I have fun with even after reading Clancy, Coyle, Coontz, Bond etc. How many people in a squad, squads to a platoon, platoons to a company, companies to a Battalion. And if you're a Cav unit its troops, and then tanks to a platoon or guns to a battery. And the difference between a Mech unit and light Infantry. And Regiments are no longer in Vogue unless it was famous like the Wolfhounds. And as a former Air Force E-5 (3 years, 8 months, 4 days) I don't even try to figure out the Marine TO. And (sorry Maggie) trying to tell the difference between a Burke Class Destroyer and an Agregeous Class one is beyond me.
But if you study the NFL, or NHL or whatever, you enjoy it more if you know what's going on. And I know they took that Red line out of the middle of the rink...I think. It just takes a little effort...and its worth it.
FBL, your point about Google is all well and good if you want to be a private club where the initiates must learn a new language to join. If, however, you want to communicate with civilians that are inclined to be curious about the military, you might want to make it easier to understand. The choice depends on your target audience.
It's like reading Dr. Thomas Sowell's early work, full of wisdom but it takes way to long to read due to needing a dictionary for every fifth word. I am busy, so if you are trying to communicate with me, (civilians), you need to make translation easy.
Fishmugger says the magic words... NO FEAR ON EARTH BABY!!!
Hang in there. One of these years, I'll get around to the Marines TO&E. It ain't as bad as you might think.
Table of Organization and Equipment, the list of positions and the gear with which the incumbents perform the tasks.
I have said this before, maybe not on this blog.
This could be contracted out and paid for by the pentagon.
Then one could thump reporters on the head with a copy when they call a APC a tank or a FFG a battleship or any other simple / deliberate mistakes.
Every services recruiting office should had out copies like candy.
Authorized: 100% (but not funded)
On Hand: 75% (or less)
Coffee has not kicked in yet.
My friend's nephew is a Wolfhound on his second tour in Iraq. The second very much different then the first; but we'll never read about it. His comander kept everyone updated via emails; a very cool feature today.
I think the proper nomenclature is the 27th of the 25th, 27th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division, Schofield Barracks, Hawaii. Not bad duty for a kid from CT; neat pick up from his re-up bonus for his surfboard. Mahowlo Broda.
Absolutely, that's why I said we need to be more careful about defining acronyms and jargon. But it seemed to me the complaint was not that acronyms/jargon weren't explained, but that it took too much effort to read. And on that latter count I don't have much sympathy. He wasn't saying it was like a secret club, he was saying it was tiring to read the very explanations themselves.
Well, since I already posted on what a TO&E is on my blog, I wasn't going to repeat everything. I want your readers to come to my place, after all. I think maybe I'll throw the red flag and get an instant replay review. :)
So we made our own out of scrap 2x4s.*
*2x4: noun, common usage. Refers to finished lumber (generally white pine) nominally 2" in depth and 4" in width -- length most commonly 96".
*heh*
What I can't understand is how anyone remembers all of them--even those within the same service. I work in IT. I gave up long ago. Each specialty within IT has developed its own set of acronyms--many using the same letters.
My memory for that sort of thing (and for names) just plain $*cks. Dale Carnegie didn't help. My poor attempt to use mnemonics is some of the best unintentional comedy you have ever heard. I have blurted them out and destroyed meetings that way. Now that I'm over 40, I blame it on age.
BSA.....
Boy Scouts of America
British Sterling Auto
Basic Sight Assembly
The last instance of BSA is the main component of the ISU that sits on top of the M2/3 IFV.... but y'all knew that already.
Still, I remember how little I could follow in my first couple of months, and I'm trying to put everything I can find into a single file for ease of searching, so if anyone has any more lists, especially branch-specific, I'd appreciate it. If I ever get it to the point of distribution to other cadets, I'll make sure people get referenced. ;-)
Didden have a frame of reference, since I don't, usually...