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  <updated>2010-01-21T15:46:01Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for &apos;Yet we still let everybody look at it.&apos;</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2010</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=9720" title="'Yet we still let everybody look at it.'" />
    <published>2008-09-08T02:01:49Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T02:30:06Z</updated>
    <title>&apos;Yet we still let everybody look at it.&apos;</title>
    <summary><![CDATA[This is a &ldquo;for what it&rsquo;s worth&rdquo; story that has been rolling around in the back of my mind ever since I started paying attention to McCain since his clinching the nomination. There are things I disagree with him about; most are disagreements common to &ldquo;the conservative base.&rdquo; Unlike some, however, my disagreements are not so deep-seated that I would rather see Barack Obama in the White House. Hoping a third candidate will supplant them both, or voting for an obscure and irrelevant Other, is counterproductive, to say the least. So, the GOP has an imperfect candidate.

]]></summary>
    <author>
      <name><![CDATA[Dusty (AKA <em>Attila of Argghhh!</em>)]]></name>
      <uri>www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Politics" />
    
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      <![CDATA[This is a &ldquo;for what it&rsquo;s worth&rdquo; story that has been rolling around in the back of my mind ever since I started paying attention to McCain since his clinching the nomination. There are things I disagree with him about; most are disagreements common to &ldquo;the conservative base.&rdquo; Unlike some, however, my disagreements are not so deep-seated that I would rather see Barack Obama in the White House. Hoping a third candidate will supplant them both, or voting for an obscure and irrelevant Other, is counterproductive, to say the least. So, the GOP has an imperfect candidate.<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p> <p class="MsoNormal">Well.<br /> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Being of the Yankee Air Pirate Neanderthal throw-back that I am, I can&rsquo;t see a contest between Obama and McCain. Even though there is one, there shouldn&rsquo;t be. This is why I think so:<br /><br />My peers and I were &ldquo;raised,&rdquo; so to speak, by men who had only recently returned to full duty after being released from the North Vietnamese military Gulag. Some I met as a senior at the USAF Academy in 1975-76, some as a newly-minted instructor pilot on his first post-pilot training assignment, and a couple as a rookie Hog driver.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">None of them were &ldquo;normal&rdquo; in the strictest sense of the word.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">I mean that in a good way.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">None called attention to their past, but we all knew who they were and we watched them.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">As a man, it&rsquo;s hard to look at another man who you know for a fact has been through tougher times than you (by about a factor of a billion) and not think, &ldquo;Could I have been as brave as him? Could I have been one-one hundredth of a stud that guy was?&rdquo; In short, in matters of character, courage, perseverance, loyalty and patriotism, this particular Band of Brothers&mdash;of whom no blockbuster movies have been made&mdash;know no peer in my eyes.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">I got a sense of who these guys were almost a year before I was commissioned.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">I was on the Cadet Honor Committee, back then the cadre that oversaw the application of the Honor Code. Our officer in charge was a Major who spent more than 6 years in jail up North. He had an easy smile and approachable demeanor. Even though you were a cadet toad, this guy never made you feel like it. So one day a half-dozen or so of us were sitting in his office and, knowing his background, someone asked, &ldquo;What was your worst day?&rdquo;<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;Well, I guess it was the day I thought I had been paralyzed from the neck down.&rdquo;</strong><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><em>(Whoa&hellip;)</em><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;We were in a group, sitting outside under a bright moon, watching a pretty silly propaganda film depicting US troops as bloodthirsty murderers&hellip;really poorly made and laughable in its caricature of the American soldier&hellip;when one of the English speaking guards walks by and asks how I liked the film.<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;What he didn&rsquo;t know was that we had discovered that US astronauts had landed on the moon in &rsquo;69. He knew that America had put a man on the moon, but he didn&rsquo;t know that <em>we</em> knew.&rdquo;</strong><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><em>At this point, we asked how the news had gotten out.</em><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;They fell down on the job in ransacking our CARE packages&hellip;a sugar packet with a drawing of Neil Armstrong standing on the moon next to the American flag and the date of the landing was somehow overlooked. The news spread through the camp like wildfire.&rdquo;</strong><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><em>&ldquo;OK&hellip;so what&rsquo;s that got to do with the propaganda film?&rdquo;</em><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;Well, I thought I&rsquo;d have a little fun at this guy&rsquo;s expense. Turned out to be a bad move.<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;When he asked me how I felt about my government now, I said, &lsquo;Eh, I don&rsquo;t know. Actually, I think America is a pretty great country.&rsquo; Surprised (he was sure the film was gospel vis-&agrave;-vis the US), he asked why and I said, &lsquo;Well, we landed on the moon didn&rsquo;t we?&rsquo;<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>Too shocked to lie when he realized we knew that fact, he sputtered, &lsquo;Yes.&rsquo;<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&lsquo;So that means we own it, right?&rsquo; (You could hear the wheels turning&hellip;)<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&lsquo;Er, yes.&rsquo;<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&lsquo;Yet we still let everybody look at it.&rsquo;<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;It took about a three-count before he realized he&rsquo;d been made a fool of, but that&rsquo;s all I remember until I woke up.&rdquo;</strong><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">This guy was beaten so badly he lost consciousness for God knows how long&hellip;and here&rsquo;s the &ldquo;worst day&rdquo; part:<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;When I started to come around, after a few seconds, I found I couldn&rsquo;t move my head. I thought, &lsquo;Oh, s**t, they broke my neck.&rsquo;<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;That was the worst day of my captivity.<br /></strong><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong>&ldquo;As soon as that thought formed in my head, I panicked and, still in that grey world between being out and being conscious, my body reflexively convulsed. It was then I could move my head.&rdquo;</strong><br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">Why the momentary &ldquo;paralysis?&rdquo; The beating he received for embarrassing the guard left him bleeding from the eyes, ears, nose and mouth. The blood flowed down his face and neck as he lay unconscious on his cell&rsquo;s floor, gluing his head to the concrete as it dried and coagulated. Still groggy when coming around, his momentary immobility felt like paralysis.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">As horrible as this tale was, I swear he had a twinkle in his eye when he told it, probably because he enjoyed remembering the look on the guard&rsquo;s face when he realized he&rsquo;d been snookered, big time.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">Now, you&rsquo;d never know this guy, and hundreds like him, was a hero. As far as I know, he&rsquo;s never written an autobiography. However, he did get to know physical and mental pain, he got to know what it&rsquo;s like to lose his freedom, he got to know what it&rsquo;s like to be hungry, cold, dirty and alone surrounded by men who had the power of life and death over him. He got to learn how to resist tyrants and sadists. He got to know what &ldquo;friend&rdquo; really means. He developed and appreciation for America I&rsquo;ll bet he didn&rsquo;t have before he found himself in the Hanoi Hilton. He also learned what it&rsquo;s like to be broken. And he learned how to come back from that. He knew before he launched that bad men and bad regimes need to be fought. After he got out, he had first-hand knowledge why.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">When I hear McCain&rsquo;s opponents trying to downplay his POW time, saying it&rsquo;s no basis on which to select a President, I cannot agree. I disagree particularly in this case where his rival for the Presidency is so devoid of any meaningful experience (and I&rsquo;m NOT talking &ldquo;executive&rdquo;) that builds the kind of character it will take to lead the free world in the next several years.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">Being a good speaker is nice, and I&rsquo;ll be the first to admit McCain is no Obama on that score, but I want someone with character and courage in that seat. Alas, it doesn&rsquo;t count for much these days and that&rsquo;s a damn shame.<br /><br />Obama is an impressive guy. He's not an idiot and he has great potential. Hell, he took on the Clinton Machine and beat them.&nbsp;<br /><br />But I look at him and see...a kid.&nbsp;<br /><br />When I look at McCain, I don't see a kid...and I ain't talkin' age here. I see a grizzled old bulldog who's forgotten more than Obama presently knows. I see a energetic manly man who's had the s**t kicked out of him, literally and figuratively, and has, without fail, gotten back up and into the ring. I see a guy who has convictions and the courage to defend them against tenacious opposition. Before the game starts, guys like that you hope pick you for their team. And another thing...<o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">Based on what I&rsquo;ve seen in my life as a combat pilot, a commander and a citizen, I want someone who&rsquo;s had a lot of the hubris burned out of him in the fires of the Forrestal and the Hanoi Hilton. Hubris is bad in a man with his finger on the button and right now, despite the post-Palin speech shock, I think there&rsquo;s still a helluva lot in Barack Obama.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">When I see how much awe and adulation is showered on the Dem candidate&hellip;and how little is afforded McCain&hellip;I realized my values are definitely out of sync with many on the left and the right.<br /><o:p></o:p></p>  <p class="MsoNormal">Sure, McCain ain&rsquo;t perfect, but the challenges he&rsquo;s met, the shrewd calls he&rsquo;s made in the face of fierce opposition, the patience, the agility and the tenacity he&rsquo;s displayed lend me to believe that we could have done worse&hellip;and given his opponent, substantially worse.</p> <!--EndFragment-->]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78129</id>
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    <title>Comment from Attila of Argghhh! on 2008-09-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>Attila of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[&nbsp;Bill,<br />
<br />
Re:&nbsp;getting back...two words:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3227/push.htm" rel="nofollow"><u><strong>Pardo's</strong></u></a> <a href="http://www.af.mil/news/airman/1296/pardo.htm" rel="nofollow"><u><strong>Push</strong></u></a>.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-10T05:46:20Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-10T05:46:20Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78127</id>
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    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/09/reflections_on.html#comment-78127" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-09-10</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[*Air Force* pilots kept count -- Army pilots didn't. To this day, I have no idea of the exact number of sorties I flew (at least a thousand), or even the exact number of missions. Except for the ones in which I returned as a passenger, rather than as a pilot.<br />
<br />
Of course, Army missions were a bit shorter than those of the guys flying out of fixed bases, or off boats. A combat sortie is a combat sortie, but their *combat* time only started when they were in hostile airspace, so they could only claim combat time for a fraction of the actual hours they spent in the Unfriendly Skies. And trying to safely land an aircraft full of holes that doesn't want to stay in the air *at all* takes a helluva lot of guts and skill... <br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-10T05:35:22Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-10T05:35:22Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78124</id>
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    <title>Comment from Oldloadr on 2008-09-09</title>
    <author>
        <name>Oldloadr</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[Yep, half a combat sortie means not making it back to base...&nbsp; When I joined, all the former POWs who were able to get back on flying status wore a patch on there zip...er...flight suit with their number of combat sorties.&nbsp; Actually most Viet Nam era pilots did, but the POWs' patch always ended with &quot;1/2.&quot;&nbsp; So it might say 52 1/2, or 26 1/2... etc.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-10T04:12:40Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-10T04:12:40Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78072</id>
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    <title>Comment from MCart on 2008-09-09</title>
    <author>
        <name>MCart</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        1/2 meaning a one-way flight?
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-09T17:28:23Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-09T17:28:23Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78019</id>
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    <title>Comment from Attila of Argghhh! on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Attila of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[&nbsp;Riiiihgt...]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-09T04:32:55Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-09T04:32:55Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78018</id>
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    <title>Comment from Oldloadr on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Oldloadr</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        You know it&apos;s meant with the utmost respect... ;)
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-09T03:48:09Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-09T03:48:09Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:78010</id>
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    <title>Comment from Attila of Argghhh! on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Attila of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[&nbsp;&quot;Zipper suits&quot;...?<br />
<br />
Dude...]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-08T21:11:52Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T21:11:52Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:77991</id>
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    <title>Comment from Oldloadr on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Oldloadr</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[I, too, met some of the Band of Brothers of which Dusty speaks. I joined the USAF in 1975. After training, I was assigned to the 33rd Tac Fighter Wing, Eglin AFB, FL. Our DO was a guy you all may have heard of, Col. Bud Day. One day, my expediter sent me into the Ops desk to get a schedule change signed by the duty officer. He said to me, &quot;Go in the door, turn left and look for a Lt or Capt in a zipper suit sitting behind a control desk.&quot; So, here I go into the Pilots' inner sanctum; I find the duty desk, and I'm standing there looking for the Lt or Capt I was supposed to find. Over to the side of the desk, on the phone, was a Full Colonel with a 3 letter name tag. He hung up the phone and said, &quot;What can I do for you?&quot; I had just realized that I had stumbled into the presence of greatness and I stammered out, &ldquo; I was looking for the duty officer to sign a schedule change, Sir.&rdquo; Col Day said, &quot;That's me! Let me see your change.&quot; I gave it to him, he asked a few questions, and then signed it. Those outside the military may not understand this significance, but I can tell you, I never saw another senior officer give a young officer a break at the duty desk. That's the way all of those men were who wore the patch on their zipper suits that quietly, but unabashedly proclaimed that they had flown &ldquo;XX1/2&rdquo; combat sorties (those who know, know).]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-08T17:11:26Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T17:11:26Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:77977</id>
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    <title>Comment from fdcol63 on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>fdcol63</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[You never fully appreciate what you have - or how good you've got it - until you've lost it or lived through worse.<br />
<br />
People like Obama,&nbsp;Biden, and their fellow travelers on the Left&nbsp;take for granted the freedoms and civil liberties they enjoy because they've never lost them or suffered without them. They've never had them denied by a truly evil and totalitarian authority, as have former POWs and those living under genuinely cruel, tyrannical regimes.<br />
<br />
Nor have they voluntarily given some of their freedoms and civil liberties away, even temporarily, like those of us&nbsp;who joined the military. They've never been under &quot;orders&quot;, restricted to post,&nbsp;or subject to the UCMJ for failing to be somewhere at a specific time or for missing a movement or deployment or for having to quietly withstand the scrutiny of an authority figure, like a drill sergeant or other superior, screaming in your face.<br />
<br />
Thus, they draw false parallels between a &quot;fascistic&quot; American government and truly evil, authoritarian, tryrranical regimes.&nbsp;]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-08T13:21:05Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T13:21:05Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:77972</id>
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    <title>Comment from Marvin on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Marvin</name>
        <uri>http://wordmarvin.mee.nu</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://wordmarvin.mee.nu">
        <![CDATA[I select Presidents based on what I can tell of their character -- McCain is an honest person, who doesn't back off his beliefs - look at his support of Comphresive Immigrantion Reform, an idea which is repungent to conservatives. <br />
McCain was not my first choice amongst Presidential contenders, but he is the best choice - now.<br />
<br />
Obama is a puppet, an empty suit, and we do not know who the real puppetmaster is. Exactly who is pulling Obama's strings. <br />
<br />
Biden is a nothing Senator, who has stayed there for 35 years, only because he hails from a small state. Biden has never been a contender for a leadership position in the Senate. What do his peers know about him, that keeps him out of leadership spots? <br />
<br />
Palin jumped into politics to make things better, has track record of fighting corruption within her own party. (name another politician who has fought the corruption within their own party.)<br />
<br />
<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-08T11:55:42Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T11:55:42Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:77966</id>
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    <title>Comment from Ymarsakar on 2008-09-08</title>
    <author>
        <name>Ymarsakar</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[It's funny that Bush got the nomination for 2000 precisely because there wasn't a war going on and McCain's war time experience was rendered null and void. Now McCain's back, after Bush, with the war that initiated on Bush's length of administration.<br />
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<br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-08T05:11:14Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T05:11:14Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9720-comment:77964</id>
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    <title>Comment from Katherine Optima Maximae on 2008-09-07</title>
    <author>
        <name>Katherine Optima Maximae</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[Frankly, McCain is a brilliant tactician.&nbsp; I'm getting tired of the <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3035300" rel="nofollow"><strong>mcCain angry</strong></a> meme.&nbsp; I even got a little of it from my step mom the other day.&nbsp; As if his days in a prison cell made him crazy mad instead of highly reflective.&nbsp; <br />
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I don't think its wrong to be angry sometimes when its important and you want to get your point across.&nbsp; In fact, I think that his rallying cry &quot;stand up and fight&quot; is a part of that.&nbsp; I think he was getting upset that Republicans were going to lay down and let the Democrats take the presidency and have majority in congress.&nbsp; <br />
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I think he saw the Clinton national health care and other programs as breaking the US economy at the worst possible moment.&nbsp; <br />
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You got to give it to the guy, he doesn't back down, he doesn't quit.&nbsp; Here he is, 8 years later, running again because he believes its necessary and right.&nbsp; He found the right guy to run his campaign and now he's got this the democrats on the run.&nbsp; He knows about the military, its needs and what it can and can't do.&nbsp; I think with him and Petraeus, they are going to get something done about Afghanistan.&nbsp; <br />
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this guy is it.&nbsp; Obama is a lightweight.&nbsp; <br />]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-09-08T02:57:41Z</published>
    <updated>2008-09-08T02:57:41Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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