Comments for Good to know.

Good to know.

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:33:21 -0600

I lived, breathed, worked, and paid a physical price (well, you pay the price, in the form of my 70% disability rating) working with nukes in the Army. It was a zero-defects environment, where you got fired for passing a tool over a warhead, vice under or around it. Or for failing to stop in the middle of an assembly operation and explain to the evaluator why you were using a cross-tip screwdriver instead of a slot-tip, because the technical specs hadn't caught up on paper with a materiels change in the manufacturing process - automatic career-ending bolo. The Army doesn't have nukes any more (yay!), only the Air Force and Navy do - and the Air Force has clearly lost the bubble on that stuff over the last few years. One of the things I gripe about in this space is how come we don't see more General Officer heads on spikes when major failures (and this is across the services) occur? Except for zipper and acquisition issues, you don't often see General Officers administratively beheaded "pour le encouragement les autres." Secretary Gates just conducted some public beheadings of careers. Pour le encouragement les autres. Reminds me of one of my favorite short stories, A Fight With A Cannon, by Victor Hugo. This passage in particular: "General, there is the man." The gunner remained standing, with downcast eyes, in military attitude. The Count de Boisberthelot continued: "General, in consideration of what this man has done, do you not think there is something due him from his commander?" "I think so," said the old man. "Please give your orders," replied Boisberthelot. "It is for you to give them, you are the captain." "But you are the general," replied Boisberthelot. The old man looked at the gunner. "Come forward," he said. The gunner approached. The old man turned toward the Count de Boisberthelot, took off the cross of Saint-Louis from the captain's coat and fastened it on the gunner's jacket. "Hurrah!" cried the sailors. The mariners presented arms. And the old passenger, pointing to the dazzled gunner, added: "Now, have this man shot." Dismay succeeded the cheering. Then in the midst of the death-like stillness, the old man raised his voice and said: "Carelessness has compromised this vessel. At this very hour it is perhaps lost. To be at sea is to be in front of the enemy. A ship making a voyage is an army waging war. The tempest is concealed, but it is at hand. The whole sea is an ambuscade. Death is the penalty of any misdemeanor committed in the face of the enemy. No fault is reparable. Courage should be rewarded, and negligence punished." These words fell one after another, slowly, solemnly, in a sort of inexorable meter, like the blows of an ax upon an oak. And the man, looking at the soldiers, added: "Let it be done." The man on whose jacket hung the shining cross of Saint-Louis bowed his head. At a signal from Count de Boisberthelot, two sailors went below and came back bringing the hammock-shroud; the chaplain, who since they sailed had been at prayer in the officers' quarters, accompanied the two sailors; a sergeant detached twelve marines from the line and arranged them in two files, six by six; the gunner, without uttering a word, placed himself between the two files. The chaplain, crucifix in hand, advanced and stood beside him, "March," said the sergeant. The platoon marched with slow steps to the bow of the vessel. The two sailors, carrying the shroud, followed. A gloomy silence fell over the vessel. A hurricane howled in the distance. A few moments later, a light flashed, a report sounded through the darkness, then all was still, and the sound of a body falling into the sea was heard. The old passenger, still leaning against the mainmast, had crossed his arms, and was buried in thought. Boisberthelot pointed to him with the forefinger of his left hand, and said to La Vieuville in a low voice: "La Vendée has a head." Indeed - La Vendée has 15 heads. And as long as it wasn't a witchhunt, that's a good thing.

Comment from Consul-At-Arms on 2008-09-28

Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:26:28 -0600

I remember that no-passing-tools-over-the-warhead rule very well: I began my career-in-green as a 12E.

I've quoted you and linked to you here: http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2008/09/re-good-to-know.html

Comment from SangerM on 2008-09-27

Sat, 27 Sep 2008 23:22:03 -0600

ok, ok... I wasn't really thinking about the public-vice-private flogging aspect of it for the underlings, and I wasn't really paying attention either I guess. I was focused on the big to-do about the seniors getting LORs and etc, whereas my personal NCO ethic is that the NCOs are the ones who are supposed to keep things 'right' and are the people who should get whacked hardest when things go wrong.

To be honest, I genuinely dislike the sophomoric frat-boy behaviors of many of the AF pilot-types I've encountered--I mean really, call signs when not on the radio--that's kid stuff; flight suits even if they haven't been in a plane for a decade, fake-looking brown leather jackets for pilots that many non-pilots are actually jealous of; and everyone on a first name basis.... For all that though, it doesn't really matter to me if the senior officers get tagged. I understand about leaders setting culture rules, but officers come and go--it's up to the NCOs to keep things on track from one leader-change to the next, especially in the AF, where the NCOs are far more into rules & regs than most Army NCOs typically were...

Z'at make sense?

And as for Zirndorf, I think that's great, actually. In fact, the building I used to live in in Erlangen is now part of the university, and in Katterbach, it was 1ID instead of 1AD, which was the oddest thing of all I think...

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-09-27

Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:44:07 -0600

I'm with Oldloadr on this one, Sanger - they didn't publicize the juniors getting mashed. That doesn't encourage the others, so to speak. They publicly pilloried the leadership, causing some of them to go ahead and retire (about all you could ask for, in terms of direct criminal responsibility issues) and if either of those two Generals aren't allowed to retire in their current grade... that's as close to a head on a spike as we could expect.

Zirndorf - After you went through there, Sanger - Playmobil, which had a factory in Zirndorf and built a bigger one on the back part of the kaserne property after it close - built a "fun park" there, so where we used to pull motor stables and gnosh "Davy Crocketts" in the snack bar is a theme park.

I suppose you can't argue with that as a bad reuse of a not-really-famous piece of WWII and the Cold War.

Comment from Oldloadr on 2008-09-27

Sat, 27 Sep 2008 04:02:48 -0600

SangerM: There were about 50 people disciplined in the ALCM incident. That would have taken it down to the SSgt load crew chief at Minot. The AF has never had a problem punishing the last 7-level to sign the forms; so, to me it's good to see the stars fall out of the ivory tower (enlisted scum logic). Although in the ALCM incident, there were more article 15s than LORs, whereas the Taiwan incident appears to the opposite.

Comment from SangerM on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:17:33 -0600

P.S. That's one way to right-size the Air Force, but now they need to actually fire some people, including the guys who flew the plane loaded with real nukes who didn't even know what they had on board, as well as the guys in charge of the laoding team, the guys in charge of the storage depot who let them out without checking first, etc.... It's all fine to fry a few high ranking guys, but the real mistakes were made by mid-level leaders, E6-E8, O2-O4, I'd bet. Having a culture of sloppiness is one thing, but that doesn't excuse the bozos on the ground who actually made the mistakes.

Harsh? Yeah. But what's been done is the equivalent of shooting Count de Boisberthelot instead of the gunner in Hugo's short story.

Comment from SangerM on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:06:50 -0600

Ha, I used to take radars to Herzo from Ferris barracks in Erlangen, from 76-79....

Got pics of what's left of Pinder in 2005 (nothing but the front gate and the pizza place outside), the rest is condos now; Also got pics of Ferris and Ansbach and Katterbach and other places.... Wasn't a lot left, it was almost like the folks moved and turned off the porch light. And Rotenburg was almost devoid of Americans. Was very sad in a way. And been through Zirndorf LOTS of times, both in late 70s and from 82-85, when I was at Katterbach.

Small world, eh?

Comment from Cannoneer No. 4 on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:47:41 -0600

Used to take my oldest boys to a playground in Zirndorf in 1984. Lived in some housing area across Fronmueller Str. from W.O.D.K. Probably saw you at the Fuerth PX some Saturday and didn't know it.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:11:10 -0600

No.4 - nope, Pinder Barracks, the other side of Nueremberg, in 1st Armored DIVARTY. Along with fellow traveler/commenter fdcol - we were both in the 1-22 FA together, although Frank being enlisted scum, and me bein' a high-minded real live ossifer, we didn't hang out much...

Comment from V5 on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:21:08 -0600

Well, other than last years Mil-Blog in DC, we've probably crossed paths. I think Dad was with Lance before switching to Pershing. Hell, you may even know him.

V5

Comment from Cannoneer No. 4 on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 14:19:00 -0600

John, were you at Herzo Base in 1984?

Comment from Grumpy on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:08:32 -0600

@Armorer, well done! This is a difficult subject, but is ultimately necessary. Nothing happens in a vacuum. This situation with the nukes, did not "just happen". The questions become, What were the policies that caused this situation over time? The second question becomes, Who pushed those policies? WAIT! DON'T COMMENT, these are questions to just ponder, over a cup of coffee. Do yourself a favor, leave your bias and politics at the door. Have you ever noticed, we are running into one "perfect storm", right after another? Before long, we, as a Nation, will run into a "Perfect Mega-Storm". The question becomes, then, what will we do?

V/R
Grumpy

Comment from Boquisucio on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:34:46 -0600

Counterfeit Assignats - My favorite! Which à propos, will have the same value of our Dollar, come next week.

Comment from BillT on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:34:16 -0600

Stars 'n' Stripes is reporting a total of eight GOs, including two Army Log-types who each had a Memorandum of Concern placed in his 201 file.

That ain't even a scalp for the lodgepole -- it's the equivalent of a "Bad Dog" note in your field file that gets yanked after 14 days...

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:14:42 -0600

V5 - everything *but* Pershing. Lance, 155, 8inch. I avoided being sucked into the Pershing business by accepting an assignment as an O/C at Fort Irwin.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:12:39 -0600

Jack - the voters can do that at the polling booths, can they not?

Comment from Jack on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:05:01 -0600

Why does the government only impose such punishments on its military men, and not on those who create even greater errors that can bring down an entire nation - such as those both in and out of government who bring down its economy through selfish manipulation and gambling?

Comment from V5 on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:04:57 -0600

Just out of curiosity which kind of nukes did you work on? I grew up in a pretty tight nit group within the Army nuke family, specifically the Pershing Missile family. My dad was a CW4 when he finally retired in '92.

Ft. Sill to Heilbronn
Heilbronn to Ft. Sill
repeat,
repeat,
repeat.

Comment from JimC on 2008-09-26

Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:01:59 -0600

Very nicely done. Letters are quite firing squads and beheadings but it certainly is nice to see something resembling accountability.