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H&I Fires* 17 AUG 2008

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Another auld warrior hangs up her spurs.

An EA-6B Prowler aircraft and an F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft prepare for their last launch from the flight deck of the USS Kitty Hawk while under way in the Pacific Ocean, Aug. 6, 2008. The aircraft departed to join the USS George Washington in San Diego, Calif. The USS Kitty Hawk is returning to the United States to be decommissioned after 46 years of service. U.S. Navy photo by Petty Officer 3rd Class Kyle D. Gahlau
An EA-6B Prowler aircraft and an F/A-18F Super Hornet aircraft prepare for their last launch from the flight deck of the USS Kitty Hawk while under way in the Pacific Ocean, Aug. 6, 2008. The aircraft departed to join the USS George Washington in San Diego, Calif. The USS Kitty Hawk is returning to the United States to be decommissioned after 46 years of service. U.S. Navy photo by Petty Officer 3rd Class Kyle D. Gahlau
Well, I can't afford the Kitty Hawk, put perhaps I can score one of these for Truman Lake or Lake of the Ozarks, when they hit the surplus market...

NORFOLK, Va. (July 19, 2008) A Mark-V (MK-V) special operations craft, piloted by special warfare combatant-craft crewmen, transits the coastline as an afternoon thunderstorm passes through off Naval Amphibious Base Little Creek during a naval special warfare capabilities demonstration. The exhibition was part of a four-day Underwater Demolition Team-SEAL Association East Coast Reunion. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Robyn Gerstenslager
NORFOLK, Va. (July 19, 2008) A Mark-V (MK-V) special operations craft, piloted by special warfare combatant-craft crewmen, transits the coastline as an afternoon thunderstorm passes through off Naval Amphibious Base Little Creek during a naval special warfare capabilities demonstration. The exhibition was part of a four-day Underwater Demolition Team-SEAL Association East Coast Reunion. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Robyn Gerstenslager
Might need something a little heftier than the F150 to haul it about, though.  Let's hope that dollar-a-week investment I make comes through...

I was sent another get-well card (heh, I actually got another one, but, well, let's just say most of you are *glad* you aren't on the "Denizens" mailing list...).  This one has a 1943 IBM M1 Carbine in it.  the gent who sent me the pic say's he's been told it's the wrong bayonet for the rifle, but they never say why - perhaps some of you "sharp-pointy-thing" collectors can offer enlightenment?

1943 dated IBM-built M1 Carbine, with accessories, on a nicely floral carpet...

BTW, the drugs are working.  The swelling is down enough that you can see stretch marks...  still hurts, though.  -the Armorer
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*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires. Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute. Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is. The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now. Of course, now I have to call them UAS's, because someone got a Legion of Merit for the name change.Anyway, I call the post H&I Fires because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to that particular topic. Another term of art that might be appropriate is Free Fire Zone.<br /><br />

19 Comments

John,  Glad to hear you are getting better.  That maturing proccess can really suck sometimes... (although, as Bn Franklin said, it beats the alternative) 
Anyway, you're one tough old soldier and I know you'll improvise, adapt and overcome!
 
Another auld warrior hangs up her spurs.

And another auld warrior -- the EA-6B -- who was *s'posed* to have been retired back before the turn of the century is still getting squirted off the pointy end of the boat.

 
Isn't that the M14/M16 Bayonet?  Looks like the one we were issued....

Otherwise, glad to hear the pain's decreasing...
 
BTW, that's an M-7 bayonet and scabbard -- plastic grip on the pig-sticker; fiberglass body and cotton webbing hold the attaching prongs on the scabbard.

The M-1/M-2 carbine takes an M-4 bayonet -- pressed leather or wood grip for the pointy-thingy; leather scabbard with attaching prongs sewn under a loop at the top.

The M-4 is kinda rare, and most of the original leather scabbards (except those in museums or in private collections) dry-rotted in Uncle Andy's old footlocker, according to the guys I worked with at the Militia Museum. You *do* remember I worked there, don't you?
 
Sanger -- Yup. The M-14 and M-16 both use the M-7.

*watching bemused looks on Denizenne faces*
 
I'm not sure how it could be the wrong bayonet, I'm pretty sure the M-4 was the only one that actually fit the carbine and that sure looks like an M-4...  The M-7 and M-8 (M-14 and M-16 respectively) bayonets have a larger hole in the tang because of the flash suppressor.  The M-1 Garand bayonet engages in the gas cylinder plug, not the barrel.  The M-1917 might fit but that would have been a WWII adaptation, and as I recall the original M-1 Carbine did not have a bayonet lug on it.  Wasn't it circa the Korean war that the third type of barrel band with the lug on it was  fitted?
 
I can't seem to make a post with out a misprint...  the M6 bayonet is for the M14, the M7 is for the M16 - the M8 is the scabbard.  Bill - I thought there were later M-4's made with the plastic grips?  The M7 just plain don't fit on the carbine (at least not on any of mine....)
 
Here's some stuff for you to analyze, Kat.
 
Nope, the M-7 won't *fit*, but it'll hang on the end well enough for a display piece -- the M-2 I carried in RVN had a bayonet lug on it, and it was WWII vintage.

I'm *almost* positive the M-4 grip was only wood or pressed leather, but that's the WWII vintage stuff. They may have produced some for Korea with a phenol handle, but it would have been a reddish-brown, not black. I only know one Korean vet who carried a carbine, and he never mentioned having a bayonet for it, even just to use as a canopener.

Hey, Neffi -- jump in here and figure this out for us...
   

Late M4 bayonets WERE made with the plastic grips, and the palstic grips were all black in color. 
The early leather grips were all brown, of course.
The critics probably are complaining that he has a WW2 era carbine with a Vietnam or later bayonet.
The rare and valuable M6 leather scabard will fit the carbine bayonet but was only made for the early M3 trench knives.  Soon after introduction of the M3 knife, the plastic M8 scabbard was adopted with the web loop for belt attachment.  Someone soon realized that maybe one of the curly metal hooks to fit on the M1910 series of web gear (pistol and cartridge belts especially) would be a good idea, so the M8A1 scabbard was made with the hook added at the top of the web loop.  Most of the M8 scabbards were converted to M8A1 so unconverted ones get collectors excited.  Later M3 knives and all the bayonets using the same blade (M4 for the carbine; M5 and M5A1 for the M1 Garand; M6 for the M14; and M7 for the M16) were mainly issued with the M8A1 plastic scabard.  

 
Kitty Hawk-  Last of the black oil bird farms. 

We should never have to count on a ship this old, any more than people would want to make a cross country trip (alone, in winter) in a 47 year old car.

Only those who have worked in the bowels of a ship that is older than most of the crew members can appreciate the Herculean efforts need from her engineers keeping the screws turning a lights burning. 

I went aboard (with thousands of others) for a brief tour the week she was commissioned in 1961.  Very impressive for a young scout!
 
Well, the Chief and others done figgered it out so I'll hold my peace. Mind you, most knowledge I have concerning bayonets concerns 19th Century sword bayonets; my interest kinda wanes after the Great War.
But it's true that M-1 carbines were not originally made with a bayonet bar- they were all retro-fitted very near the end of WWII and thereafter. Carbines that escaped that conversion are *very* sought after by the collecting fraternity...
 
"get well card email"

*SNICKER*
 
Well - If that *Other* Get-Well Card would ever be posted front stage, Papa-Gulf 17 would spark like a pocessed roman candle.
 
Mind you, most knowledge I have concerning bayonets concerns 19th Century sword bayonets; my interest kinda wanes after the Great War.

No worries, Neffi.  We all know who's the real bayonet expert--at least experience-wise--around here...  :D

 
There's a difference between being *experienced* with a bayonet and *experiencing* a bayonet, FuzzyBee....
 
True enough - in my family we have a fair amount of experience with "the pointy end" of the bayonet.

At least Dad isn't embarassed by his...
 
I made two deployments on the Good Ship Kitty Hawk as a member of the Argonauts of Attack Squadron 147. One in 1985 and the other in 1987. The second one was around the World. It was also my last major deployment. Yeah, twenty one years have gone by, already. She will now join the first two ships I served aboard, Independence and Ranger(Attack Squadron 145) in the Inactive Facility at Bummertown, WA(look it up on Wikipedia under Navy Slang). These were the days before the F/A-18 Bug. We had real airplanes back then. The Fighter Squadrons aboard Independence were Fighting 33 and 102 with F-4Js. I didn't see Tomcats until 1980 on Ranger when Fighting 1 and 2 joined CVW-2 for the Long Cruise(Sep10, 1980-May 5, 1981). Dylan had it right, "The times, They are a changin'.
I have rambled on enough.