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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-</id>
  <updated>2012-01-06T18:27:49Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for “They call us ‘Saddam’s Soldiers...”</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2010</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319</id>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html" />
    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=9319" title="“They call us ‘Saddam’s Soldiers...”" />
    <published>2008-06-13T08:33:51Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-21T13:04:34Z</updated>
    <title>“They call us ‘Saddam’s Soldiers...”</title>
    <summary>“Because we were in the Army before -- during the war.” When most of the Iraqi RW pilots talk about “the war,” they’re referring to the Iran-Iraq dustup -- they call OIF “the fight.” Most of them do, anyway… “So, they call us Saddam’s Soldiers. Feh. We did not fight for Saddam. American soldiers do not fight for Bush. Soldiers fight for the land, the country, the people! Not for the leader! The leader always changes and the land remains! But they call us ‘Saddam’s Soldiers and look down on us. &quot;They don’t know. “They don’t know… “I was stationed...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Bill</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="<![CDATA[<s>GWOT</s> Whatever it is...]]>" />
    
    <category term="<![CDATA[<s>GWOT</s> Whatever it is...]]>" />
    
    <category term="Bill&apos;s Excellent Adventure" />
    
    <category term="Postcards from the Edgy" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com/">
      <![CDATA[<p>“Because we were in the Army before -- during the war.”</p>

<p>When most of the Iraqi RW pilots talk about “the war,” they’re referring to the Iran-Iraq dustup -- they call OIF “the fight.” Most of them do, anyway…</p>

<p>“So, they call us Saddam’s Soldiers. Feh. We did not fight for Saddam. American soldiers do not fight for Bush. Soldiers fight for the land, the country, the people! Not for the leader! The leader always changes and the land remains! But they call us ‘Saddam’s Soldiers and look down on us. </p>

<p>"They don’t know. </p>

<p>“They don’t know…</p>

<p>“I was stationed here during the war. You know that old hangar over there, with the shrine on it? A thousand-pound bomb hit it. There were five pilots inside. We didn’t even try to recover them, we just left them in there and put up a shrine. There would have been no point in digging them out. A thousand-pound bomb -- there would have been nothing to find. Nothing.</p>

<p>“So, we just put up the shrine. Then we went into hiding, because that night, the Iranians came, looking to kill pilots, looking to kill officers. They took <a href="http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=436"><strong>the L-39</strong></a> with them when they left. And we hid until the Americans came, and then we came out, because we knew the Americans wouldn’t kill us.”</p>

<p>The L-39 that was being turned into a UAV. It’s not the first time that I’ve been told the Iranians had come across the border into Iraq and snatched L-39s during the confusion, but it’s the first time I heard it from someone who’d seen it firsthand and who mentioned it so casually. </p>

<p>Every so often, one will seem hostile. He’ll raise his voice, a *lot*, and get pretty agitated. It didn’t take me long to realize it wasn’t directed at me, or Americans, or George Bush. And it wasn’t hostility at all -- it was something else... </p>

<p>“Can you imagine what some of us feel, that we fought for our land and then when the leader falls, we are insulted by the ones we thought we were defending?”</p>

<p>“I know that feeling. I flew in Vietnam.”</p>

<p>“Ah. I though you might have done that. You know, then.”</p>

<p>“Yes. I know.”</p>

<p>The Silence that usually follows isn’t uncomfortable. It’s a mutual recognition that each of us can see the other’s soul and recognize the similarities that transcend the differences. Even if a change in politics dictate that we may one day have to try to kill one another, the similarities won't change.</p>

<p>Put a couple of old soldiers together, get us to shut the hell up for a while and you’ll know when the Silence happens...</p>

<p>You'll know...</p>]]>
      
    </content>
  </entry>

  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74256</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74256" />
    <title>Comment from Justthisguy on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Justthisguy</name>
        <uri>http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://enemiesofthelibrary.blogspot.com">
        Hey! I&apos;m irregular only in that I scrupulously obey all traffic laws, which is quite irregular around here. I ALWAYS stop for yellows. Unfortunately, the ABS wasn&apos;t up to road conditions tonight and I got rear-ended, somewhat.

No, belay that. If the ABS _had_ been up to road conditions, I&apos;da got rear-ended a lot harder.  Light turned yellow at optimum bad decision point, road not quite dry, guy in Merc had just changed one tire, and when he tried to swerve, he couldn&apos;t, having somebody right beside him in next lane.  

Oh, and it&apos;s Friday the 13th and my cat is still mad at me.

 F-150&apos;s back bumper moved one inch on one side; Mercedes-Benz mortally wounded. 

I&apos;ll not complain about the 12 mpg again. For a while, anywa
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-14T03:07:56Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-14T03:07:56Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74240</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Speaking of irregularities, what&apos;s up with the double-archiving when Strikethrough GWOT gets included in the category?

[Oddly enough, when you post it from over there, it doesn&apos;t show up in my control panel that you&apos;ve selected a category - but you are, obviously.  That&apos;s an artifact of my testing.  The Web Mechanic is going to try to update our backoffice this weekend... which might fix things, or blow things up so thoroughly I decide to just use that as an excuse to go dark...]

{Not so odd -- *I* can&apos;t see it in MT until something other than H&amp;I gets published. BloggerSpeak, folks -- hang around when he answers and get even *m9re* bewildered. Hey, AFSis! I can see your house from up here!}
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T20:43:48Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T20:43:48Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74239</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74239" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Oh, fine -- and you snark me when I *don&apos;t* run off at the mouth, too.

Hmmpf -- *somebody* got an atomic wedgie because AKO released the picture of the crate the new boom-tube came in and mislabeled it as the howitzer...
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T20:37:46Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T20:37:46Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74237</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74237" />
    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Ya need some kaopectate to help with that irregularity there Chief?

We&apos;d hate ya ta be all irregular and stuff round here.  Hard enough cleanin&apos; up after Ry and JTG.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T20:30:41Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T20:30:41Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74235</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74235" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>Not too many people have the advantage of being a Vietnam Vet, and have access to "Saddam's Soldiers" to compare notes.</em>

Well, considering the number of surviving VietVet helicopter pilots who stayed in the game, are bilingual, have recent experience instructing in SWA, are qualified flight sim operators, can still pass a flight physical, blog (irregularly) and are currently in Iraq, yeah, your chances of getting somebody *else's* perspective on it might be a tad slim...]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T20:27:41Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T20:27:41Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74227</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74227" />
    <title>Comment from Greyhawk on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Greyhawk</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<em>"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."</em>
 - G.K. Chesterton]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T18:18:45Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T18:18:45Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74226</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from AFSister on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>AFSister</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Yes, it was meant as a compliment.  Not too many people have the advantage of being a Vietnam Vet, and have access to &quot;Saddam&apos;s Soldiers&quot; to compare notes.  It is an interesting thought process.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T17:59:20Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T17:59:20Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74219</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>Very interesting thought process.</em>

Thanks, Twin.

Uhhh -- I think...

]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T16:04:30Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T16:04:30Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74216</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74216" />
    <title>Comment from HomefrontSix on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>HomefrontSix</name>
        <uri>http://homefrontsix.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://homefrontsix.blogspot.com">
        Yeah, not so much. But that&apos;s ok - there is very little I enjoy more than listening to them talk.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T15:48:10Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T15:48:10Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74209</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74209" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>get us to shut the hell up for a while</em>

No luck on that, eh, HF6?]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T15:03:07Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T15:03:07Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74208</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74208" />
    <title>Comment from HomefrontSix on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>HomefrontSix</name>
        <uri>http://homefrontsix.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://homefrontsix.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>get us to shut the hell up for a while </em>


Heh.


Good post whirly-bird man. Good post.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T14:57:36Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T14:57:36Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74203</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from AFSister on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>AFSister</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Interesting comparisons, Bill.  Many have said that Iraq is the &quot;new&quot; Vietnam.... but no one has said that it&apos;s the &quot;new&quot; Vietnam to the IRAQI&apos;s.  Most who have said that are trying to draw parallels between the wars being unpopular, a lost cause, and an unnecessary attack by the United States.  You&apos;re the first to draw the parallel between the fighters themselves. 
Very interesting thought process.  You&apos;ve found kindred spirits in the hearts of the Iraqi pilots- and not just because you&apos;re both air jockeys.
*smile*  Welcome Home, Bill.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T14:42:03Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T14:42:03Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74198</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Maggie on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Maggie</name>
        <uri>http://bostonmaggie.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://bostonmaggie.blogspot.com">
        Good post baby.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T12:44:52Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T12:44:52Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74195</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74195" />
    <title>Comment from Alan Briley, RN on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Alan Briley, RN</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Almost every post surprises me, sir. Keep it up!

We&apos;ve got your six. Airborne, all the way!

Alan Briley, RN
Former paratrooper
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T12:10:38Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T12:10:38Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74194</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from Boquisucio on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Boquisucio</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Thanks for the quiescent moment Unkabill.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T12:07:11Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T12:07:11Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74191</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
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    <title>Comment from MaryAnn on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>MaryAnn</name>
        <uri>http://www.soldiersangelsgermany.org</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.soldiersangelsgermany.org">
        You&apos;re doing a good thing, Bill.  On many levels.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T10:28:54Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T10:28:54Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74189</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74189" />
    <title>Comment from Grim on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Grim</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Good post, Bill.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T10:08:38Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T10:08:38Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74188</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74188" />
    <title>Comment from BillT on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>BillT</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        On the plus side, I&apos;m able to tell the new kids some of the history of their new home. Changes their perspective on the rotary wing guys quite a bit...
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T09:24:11Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T09:24:11Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319-comment:74185</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9319" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/06/they_call_us_sa.html#comment-74185" />
    <title>Comment from Ledger on 2008-06-13</title>
    <author>
        <name>Ledger</name>
        <uri>http://www.msn.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.msn.com">
        Let’s make sure that defeat, bitterness and confusion don’t happen again.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-13T08:24:46Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-13T08:24:46Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
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