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  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2012://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270-</id>
  <updated>2012-03-24T15:29:47Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for Heh.  Not good news.</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2010</subtitle>
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270</id>
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    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=9270" title="Heh.  Not good news." />
    <published>2008-06-04T14:52:29Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-21T13:04:35Z</updated>
    <title>Heh.  Not good news.</title>
    <summary>Cause - sent to me by a buddy, under the header, &quot;Boo, hiss! Fort Bliss&quot; FORT BLISS, Texas (AP) -- This military base in the far West Texas desert stood as the last Army post in America where if you were old enough to fight and die for your country, you were old enough to drink a beer. But the party is over at Fort Bliss. Citing too many drunken-driving crashes and arrests and too many fights, the new commanding general has raised the drinking age on base from 18 to 21, bringing 17,000-soldier Fort Bliss into line with what...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>The Armorer</name>
      <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Observations on things Military" />
    
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      <![CDATA[<p>Cause - sent to me by a buddy, under the header, "<strong><a href="http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FORT_BLISS_ALCOHOL?SITE=MOCOD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT">Boo, hiss! Fort Bliss</a></strong>"</p>

<blockquote>
FORT BLISS, Texas (AP) -- This military base in the far West Texas desert stood as the last Army post in America where if you were old enough to fight and die for your country, you were old enough to drink a beer.

<p>But the party is over at Fort Bliss.</p>

<p>Citing too many drunken-driving crashes and arrests and too many fights, the new commanding general has raised the drinking age on base from 18 to 21, bringing 17,000-soldier Fort Bliss into line with what has been the law in the rest of Texas since 1986.</p>

<p>And not only that, but all Fort Bliss soldiers are barred from slipping across the Mexican border to Ciudad Juarez, the city of famously loose morals where young Americans have been getting drunk - and getting into trouble - for generations. From now on, no passes to Juarez will be issued.</p>

<p>The new policy took effect May 22.<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>Heh.  I didn't know that Army still had *anywhere* that we hadn't raised the drinking age to 21 - most of that occurred back in the early 80's.  Of course, since I was over the age, I never really paid attention to it, and when I was commanding, it was in places where the installation drinking age was 21.</p>

<blockquote>
But now units are routinely shipping back and forth to Iraq and Afghanistan, and base officials say young men and women have been using alcohol to blow off steam - too much steam.

<p>Maj. Gen. Howard B. Bromberg, who took over in January, cracked down after a review of base crime statistics showed that in late 2007 and early 2008, sexual assaults, domestic violence and traffic accidents by soldiers 18, 19 or 20 involved alcohol more often than not.</p>

<p>Before the war, "we didn't have a large number of incidents involving younger soldiers," said Fort Bliss spokeswoman Jean Offutt. "We weren't in a wartime situation, which made for a difference in behavior upon returning."<br />
</blockquote></p>

<p>Heh.  Effect.</p>

<p><img alt="Casey Sends" src="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/historystuff/casey%20sends.jpg" width="470" height="412" /></p>

<p>I expect we'll hear the usual arguments from the usual suspects.  H/t Kevin for the AP article.</p>]]>
      
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  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270-comment:73836</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-06-05</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Heh.  And if you didn&apos;t *have* the second ID?  I wonder what would have happened then.

Olangapo.  Sodom-in-the-Phillipines...
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-05T11:34:31Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-05T11:34:31Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270-comment:73833</id>
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    <title>Comment from bc on 2008-06-05</title>
    <author>
        <name>bc</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Way back when I was just in the Navy before I was 21 (checks dusty tome for dates) I recall being rather annoyed that I was old enough to fight but not old enough to buy a beer. Especially after doing a port visit in Brisbane where none of us could not buy one, the diggers or bar tenders bought the beer for the &quot;Yanks&quot;. We won&apos;t mention what went on in Olongapo. No one checked ID cards there or Sasebo, Yokouska, Kobe, Hong Kong, Kaochung, Pago Pago, just San Diego. 

Come to think of it, no one has carded me in a couple of decades. Maybe I should try Hooters, I hear they card everyone.

TINS…  Shortly after getting legal in San Diego I was sitting in a bar on Broadway having a cold one and the vice squad comes in. Two guys in plain clothes, they started at the far end of the bar with the gray haired gent and carded everyone. They asked for a photo ID (you youngsters would not know that back then your drivers license was not a photo ID) and I handed them my military ID. The man asked for another so I gave him my Merchant Mariner Document. He handed them back and went down the bar. After they left the bar tender came over and asked what I had used for the second ID. I showed it to him and he explained that the vice squad guys where expecting me to give them a second military ID with a different date on it. I didn’t go to jail and the bar didn’t get fined. 

    </content>
    <published>2008-06-05T06:44:11Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-05T06:44:11Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270-comment:73821</id>
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    <title>Comment from AW1 Tim on 2008-06-04</title>
    <author>
        <name>AW1 Tim</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        
   I can find no good reason for NOT lowering the drinking age to 18. None. Nada. Zip.

   If our courts are trying 18 year olds as adults, and arguing that they are old enough to make a reasoned decision regarding the law, then they are old enough to make a reasoned decision regarding their alcohol consumption.

     I firmly believe their is a valid discrimination suit just waiting to be filed by those under 21. 
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-04T18:46:11Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-04T18:46:11Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270-comment:73816</id>
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    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-06-04</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Karla - how, how, *euro* of you.

Of course, I agree.

And the authorities would be appalled at our behavior at home when Andy was less-than-21.
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-04T16:11:18Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-04T16:11:18Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9270-comment:73815</id>
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    <title>Comment from Karla (threadbndr) on 2008-06-04</title>
    <author>
        <name>Karla (threadbndr)</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Wow, I didn&apos;t think there were any posts that still allowed 18yr olds to drink.  When I visited my son, who is USMC stationed aboard Camp Lejeune, there were flags on the door of the quarters indicating residents under 18 (no tobacco) and under 21 (no alcohol) for the weekly inspections.  

I also got a real giggle over the fact that people yelled down the balcony &quot;female on deck&quot; so that I could come up and see where he lived.

Personally, I think that if young adults are allowed to have moderate amounts of alcohol in a family setting (glass of wine at dinner, beer after working in the yard for example) and the adults around them model good habits in regard to alcohol (never driving after drinking and practicing moderation at all times), then alcohol looses a lot of the mistique and ceases to be a rite of passage.  JC certainly never went as overboard with it as many of his friends did, but I don&apos;t know if that&apos;s because of our parenting or his inate good sense! LOL
    </content>
    <published>2008-06-04T15:39:20Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-04T15:39:20Z</updated>
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