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The Castle's Dreyse M1907.

The Dreyse M1907 in the Holdings of the Arsenal of Argghhh!

Okay, I said I was going to shoot it and post about it. Well, I shot it. But not enough to post about it, because the pistol suffers from what many semi-auto pistols suffer from, especially old ones - bad lips.

Yep, bad lips.

Just to refresh, the Dreyse is a smallish, .32 ACP (7.65mm) semi-auto that weighs in at 24 oz and is 6.25 inches long. It was designed by Louis Schmeisser, and it was named after Nikolaus von Dreyse, inventor of the needle gun. The holdings of the Arsenal of Argghhh! include a needle gun, though in our case it is a French Chassepot, developed in response to Herr Dreyse's weapon. The pistols were built from 1907 until 1915 by Rheinische Metallwaren und Maschinenfabrik, Sömmerda, Germany. They made over 250,000 of them for the private, military, and police markets.

[Update: Realizing I've not really given you any size cues, unless you're a gun geek already - the two bullets in the picture above are the .32 ACP and .45ACP. I know, that doesn't really help, either, unless you're a gun geek. So... click here and you get a picture with some size cues, complete with a US Quarter coin for those not into visual caliber-gauging. From top to bottom, with a bullet for each (except the .25ACP Webley on the bottom) are a Desert Eagle in .357 Magnum, a Remington-Rand M1911A1 in .45ACP, the Dreyse, in .32ACP, and the itty-bitty Webley, in .25ACP.]

The pistol is well made, and bears a resemblance to the 1900 Browning - though internally it is very different in it's mode of operation - one of the reasons it is in the Castle holdings. It has what I think is a needlessly complex trigger mechanism, and it operates differently from Browning designs in that the barrel is fixed in the receiver, and the bolt recoils out of the receiver, vice the recoiling slide and pivoting link of more conventional (and longer-lived, more widespread) designs. One can't help but think this *feature* didn't really serve well in the dirt of the trenches. Unlike most semi-auto pistols, which you grasp at the rear to pull back to load and cock the weapon, on the Dreyse you grasped the front at those serrations and pulled back - to me, that is *not* an optimal approach. And generations of subsequent designers and users agree with me, I think. Overall it's a fairly simple pistol, (excepting that trigger) though getting the spring out can result in launching the bushing 50 feet if you're not careful (said the voice of experience).

Dreyse M1907 at max recoil.

So, get to the "lips" bit, screams the peanut gallery. Simple. The magazine has bad lips. They're damaged and misshapen enough that it won't hold more than one round. The spring (another Usual Suspect in magazine failures) is in fine fettle however. When I took my thumb off the second round I'd loaded, it promptly launched both rounds at my face, hitting apogee about two inches away...

Badly worn lips on the Dreyse M1907 magazine.

You put more than one round in the magazine, and they all just pop right out. It will hold exactly one round. This doesn't lend itself to a fun day of shooting, either. The magazine lips are curse of semi-auto pistols, and the source of many reliability problems associated with them. This type of pistol is also picky about what kind of ammunition you shoot - wrong bullet shape, they won't feed. Wrong bullet weight/powder charge or improper grip of the pistol by the shooter, and they won't cycle fully. Problems revolvers don't suffer. But people like the magazine capacity of the semi-auto... and if you know what you're doing, they work pretty well.

Back to the magazine. With so little lip left to work with, the only reason that magazine isn't going into the metal recycling bin is because it's an original magazine, with all the markings that European makers like to put on the bits and pieces of their work, and tossing it would reduce the value of the pistol. But the Triple-K Company specializes in making magazines for obsolete weapons - so we'll get the old girl shooting again, just as we ordered a magazine from them for the Castle's Webley in .25 ACP.

And *that* will be another post. So, in a sense, I got two posts out of this malfunction.

13 Comments

Triple K? Like KKK? That's an odd name for a company.
 
No, Triple K, so as *not* to be like KKK. Since they also make a lot of leather for law enforcement, I'm guessing if there was a KKK connection it would have come up by now. Their major business is making "cowboy" and LEO holsters, belts, etc, as well as custom leather work, the magazines are an example of "see a niche, fill it" business development. The company is a division of Krasne's Inc, and I'm guessing they went with the Triple K brand for the cowboy feel to it - something that obviously is a cultural thing, given your reaction. I don't think I've ever heard anyone in the states refer to the KKK as "Triple K", it's usually either the K-K-K, the Klan, or the Ku Klux Klan. Interesting where you went with it.
 
I didn't really think they were the KKK. Just seemed odd. I've also heard 'Kluckers' in the context of some kind of merge between familiarity and repulsion. I can't really relate to them of course we never had it here. Oh we had plenty of white supremacy hell it's still alive. They just never snuck around in funny white hats in a society of mumbo jumbo. And of course lighting fires would prolly get them shot by their own members here. I know of leather specialists too but I'm guessing it's not the same. Prolly they would fill a niche tho. All smart companies do.
 
"Kluckers" or perhaps... "Kluxers"?
 
John, You mean you don't do your disassembly of spring containing items inside a large clear bag? The two-gallon Ziplocks will stop most small parts.
 
No, because my arrogance and hubris know no bounds, Steve. This spring might just pop that bushing through a plastic bag. Oh, no it wouldn't. But it does a fine job as a bushing-launcher, I tell ya!
 
I guarantee that the recoil spring and guide from a Browning .30 MG would rip right through a ziplock. I'm sure John is familiar with it and can even provide photos for demonstration purposes, but for those that are not: When field stripping the breech block, the book method of removing the recoil spring and guide, is to clamp the block in a vise with soft jaws and use a flat tip screwdriver to turn the guide and slowly ease the guide out of the block under spring pressure. This often results in the guide being launched across the room at high velocity. The safe method, is to hold the breechblock in your hands, and press the guide against a bench or other handy wood surface, turn the block, and gently ease the guide out until you can grab the spring safely. This is one of those things that take ten minutes to write out, but only 30 seconds to demonstrate. This concludes todays lesson on the difference between the book approach and what actually works.:-) Pat
 
Actually, Pat - those are the exact same directions for the Dreyse...
 
Strange bullets - they look more like cartridges. Incidently, I think I hold the record of 3 hours to field strip & reassemble a 1911. A few minutes for the actual job, the rest of the time spent searching for the bush in long grass.
 
Ouch. Busted on terminology. And me the guy who spits bullets when people conflate clip and magazine...
 
If you intend to have entirely new magazines made, and the old magazines are of no particular value except to be collectable, consider attempting to harden the feed lips with Kasenit http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=119479 Kasenit allowed me to save more than one old decrepit 1911 mag. yeah, why save what can be replaced but I don't always have the resources, and I always have Kasenit. What I did to my mags, was to form the feed lips the way I thought they needed to be formed, dip the end in Kasenit, and put the whole mag into a bucket of water with just the end sticking out. An acetylene torch then served to heat the Kasenit and drive some carbon into the feed lips, which made them work pretty well. It was touchy, for sure- but it worked. Again, if the old piece has value as a collectible don't bother- but if it's eventual home is the garbage bin, why not try?
 
1. I would suggest that in 1907, the design of SA pistols was still in flux; the Hi-Power did not arrive until the mid-thirties. 2. I agree with Pat generally but inside the turret, the book procedure was quite satisfactory. Cheers
 
Yeah, JMH, that's pretty much what I said - it wasn't an optimal design. ;^)
 
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