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How To Get A Job

By Kat on May 16, 2008 | | Comments (24)

[Kat]

Megan McArdle on Advice that Should Be Unnecessary regarding this CNN article Interview Mistakes.

Here's the first few that immediately caught my attention and, before even reading the article, came to my mind (listen up military guys and gals, you'll want to make these top priority, believe it or not).

When hiring managers were asked to name the most common and damaging interview mistakes a candidate can make, 51 percent listed dressing inappropriately.

As a manager that has interviewed a few hundred folks, I have to say that the old line about "first impressions are lasting impressions" is true. If someone is going to interview for an office job, unless they tell you up front that it is a "casual work atmosphere", come dressed for "the office".

Sweat pants, jeans, hip hugging slacks with little shirts that show off the mid drift...do not wear it. I have seen everything including ripped jeans and belly button rings. And, iron your clothes or at least put them in the dryer to freshen them up and take out most of the wrinkles. If it looks like you pulled it out of the dirty clothes hamper, don't wear it. Slobs don't get the job done.

In fact, I will share some excellent advice a manager once told me: even if you are interviewing for the position of a clerk, come dressed like you are interviewing for the next position or two or three above it.

On giving that advice once, I had someone tell me that they were worried that the employer would expect them to dress like that all the time and they simply didn't have the money. That, my friends, is an excuse. Once you get to the interview, you can see what the office dress code is and you can ask. They might expect you to dress decent, but not necessarily dress to the nines. What that first impression does is to say that you are serious about getting the job and will be a serious and diligent employee.

Men, wear a tie. I know it sounds old fashion, but it definitely presents a "professional" appearance. Wear a sports jacket or suit if you are going for any position where you will be in public, representing the company. Wear a suit if you are going for a supervisory or managerial position.

Please comb your hair and shave. Make sure your hair is dry. If you're running late and can't complete your toilet in time (ladies), please call and re-schedule your interview. While that is annoying, it's less annoying than having someone show up in your office with wet hair, wrinkled clothes and a harried look and demeanor.

For the ladies, don't wear clothes that look like you're about to go to the night club. Save the cleavage and belly buttons for social hour or myspace (or not, we google). Stay away from khakis unless you are going to interview at the dollar store for a cashier position. At least wear slacks, a blouse and some decent shoes.

Oh..and please, people, don't wear tennis shoes. Make sure your shoes are clean and, preferably, without holes or giant scuff marks. If possible, use some shoe polish. ABSOLUTELY, NO FLIP FLOPS!

I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest to be, at least, clean and neat.

Don't wear any clothes with leopard, tiger or zebra print. Unless otherwise noted, we do not have a "night shift".

Forty-nine percent cited badmouthing a former boss as the worst offense, while 48 percent said appearing disinterested.

Oh, lord. Please save your dissatisfaction with your current or former boss for happy hour with your peers. Do not bring it to the interview. You are likely to be interviewed by..you guessed it...a manager who probably, at least, has some empathy for the travails of your former manager who probably has more than one employee needing attention along with the untold numbers of demanding people above them. You won't get sympathy points.

The fact that your previous manager did not mentor you, listen to you, promote you when you thought you should be or gave you a really bad review is not something that you want to share at an interview with your new prospective boss. Especially that "bad review" part. It leads to other questions like "why is this person really looking for a job?"

Hey, if you really feel that way, keep it simple and positive. You are leaving because you are looking for growth opportunities or a chance for promotion.

Oh...and when you are asked to "tell us a little something about yourself", don't talk about your divorce, your custody battles, your bankruptcy, your delinquent child, etc for a half hour. The employer is looking for information about your work history. Everything you say should be about your work experience, how it relates to the new position and what are you going to do for your prospective new employer.

Other "no, no's" from CNN:

• The applicant smelled his armpits on the way to the interview room.

• Candidate said she could not provide a writing sample because all of her writing had been for the CIA and it was "classified."

• Candidate told the interviewer he was fired for beating up his last boss.

• When the applicant was offered food before the interview, he declined saying he didn't want to line his stomach with grease before going out drinking.

Brush your teeth. Don't smoke, eat or drink anything that might give you bad breath before the interview. Stay away from the onions. If you have chronic halitosis, invest in some listermint strips.

Oh...and neither cologne nor perfume covers up the smoke smell or B.O.

That doesn't even touch the actual interview questions, but, believe me, the interview is nearly worthless from the get go if the first impression doesn't scream, "Hire me! I am the best employee you'll ever have!"

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24 Comments

By Da Goddess on May 16, 2008 3:39 AM
When I was in charge of interviewing and hiring people, I'd ask anyone wearing flip flops, shorts, a bathing suit under otherwise "okay" attire, and/or with offensive b.o. to leave without even accepting their applications. They obviously didn't care enough to take five minutes to dress like they wanted a job so I didn't bother to waste my five with them. For those who oversprayed their cologne, I couldn't make it longer than 30 seconds in a closed room with them. How would anyone manage to work a whole day next to the stench? On a slightly related thought, I was going through another photographer's portfolio one day and noticed a file called "Young Professionals Networking Seminar". I never saw so many hootchie mamas and pimped out men in my life. I shook my head and silently wept at the very idea these are our future captains of industry. WTF? Please, save the skirts short enough to require hairnets for the nightclubs, the wacky hats and expensively torn jeans, and wear something more appropriate to a networking seminar and mixer. And yet, 90% of them were dressed that way. Sigh. As someone starting to actively pursue my own photography business, I set aside money to buy "interview" and work clothing. I can't afford to meet with someone and have them think I'm not serious. Nor can I get hired for a job and suddenly have nothing to wear. You have to prepare in advance. Sometimes it's a hardship to do so, but there are many ways to go about finding the right clothing -- Goodwill, ARC, Catholic Charities, and for women, there are countless more, all you have to do is google free business attire for deserving women or some such thing. /mini rant
 
By John of Argghhh! on May 16, 2008 9:35 AM
But it was a *good* mini-rant!
 
By Boquisucio on May 16, 2008 10:48 AM
As the old saw goes... You never get a second chance to make a first impression. It's all just common sense things we should have all learnt in kindergarten, or at the very least out of the shepherding of good parenting. For every interview, I always come in my best charcoal-grey suit, crisp white oxford shirt, and a bold "power" Red Double-Windsor Tie. Not that it has helped me any in these God-forsaken five years. The only job that I've been able to land is a part-time at the local Sears. #&^*~+%!!!!! Maybe I should try the flip-flops, chewing gum angle next time.
 
By wolfwalker on May 16, 2008 10:49 AM
Meanwhile, from someone on the other side of the table ... When I see an office whose ownership insists on a dress code including silk nooses and clothes that cost as much as my car, I know I'm looking at an office run by a stuck-up prig. When I meet an interviewer who judges by superficialities like how many zeros and hours the candidate spent on his/her wardrobe and cosmetics, I know I've just met an interviewer who doesn't know what they're doing, probably doesn't know what they need, certainly doesn't know how to find it, and probably would be a nightmare to work for. You see, the judging by trivialities goes both ways. It hurts just as much when you-the-employer do it to me-the-jobseeker as it does when I-the-jobseeker do it to you-the-employer. And when one is a good worker who hasn't been able to find stable work for five goddamned years precisely BECAUSE interviewers are so obsessed with their trivial bigotries about clothes I can't afford and cosmetic issues I don't give a shit about that they miss what's standing right in front of them -- namely a damn good worker with a damn good record and a hell of a lot of ability ... well, kindly spare me the snooty snippy snarking, and consider instead that maybe part of the problem with finding good employees in today's world lies with today's employers.
 
By Eric Wilner on May 16, 2008 11:07 AM
In the area of making a good first impression, I've noticed something that applies regardless of how you're dressed: If you stand up straight, act alert, and speak the local language fluently, a lot of people will immediately pigeonhole you as an Authority Figure. If you're looking to be put in a position of responsibility, this is a good thing. (Being dressed neatly helps, too, but around Silicon Valley it's not so critical; that poorly-dressed person on the street could be a venture capitalist, a politician, or, of course, just a wino.)
 
By kat-missouri on May 16, 2008 1:49 PM
Wolf..Take two seconds and read what your wrote. You think somebody owes you a job and the only reason they didn't hire you is because you didn't come in a brooks brother suit? Seriously...if you were me and the guy came in dressed in ripped up jeans, flipflops and a faded t-shirt, the interview would go no further because I pretty much see that as having no respect for me or the job I'm about to interview him for. It is about respect and responsibility. As da goddess notes, I don't give a damn how old the tie is, how long you've had it, if you bought it from the thrift store or if it is twenty years out of style. Clean and neat like you are interested in being there. Our dress code is business casual. In 45 days I have interviewed thirty or more people for eight positions (we're expanding). You are not my only applicant. Do you want a job or to be unemployed for five years telling everyone what a bunch of snobby, priggish a-holes you have to interview with because, when you walk through the door, they are looking to see if your hair is combed, your clothes are clean and neat and give the appearance that you know what it means to work in an office? Dude...were you ever in the military? did you ever tell the Sgt that he was an a-hole because he expected your clothes to be neat and clean, your hair cut and your shoes shined? And, why did he tell you to do that? Some snobby, priggish military regulation that didn't have a damn thing to do with being a soldier? Or was it about giving the impression of discipline and order even when all hell was breaking loose? That is what civilian employers are looking for, too. Nothing shallow about it. When I put you on the front lines, however you look, however you talk, whatever you do, is going to be the brand of my company. You are going to represent it to my customers, competitors, vendors, everything. It's basic marketing. Every person who goes for an interview should understand that is what it is and what is at stake. You're damn right I'm going to look at your clothes and general appearance. You're either money in my pocket or a big sucking hole. So, are you going to market yourself as "money in my pocket" or "big sucking hole"? PS...I just spent three years doing on again and off again temp work after getting laid off when my company sold out in 2005. I cannot tell you how many interviews I had in those three years. So...I'm hard pressed to find sympathy. When I didn't get hired, it wasn't because the interviewer was "too shallow" and keyed on my appearance (I always dress nice, even in my five year old suit with the slacks I've hemmed twice and the zipper I replaced last year), it was definitely about whether I fit their over all criteria.
 
By BillT on May 16, 2008 2:01 PM
Every *personal* interview I was invited to turned up a bust, despite my suit, pressed white shirt, conservative tie and buffed shoes. The instant an interviewer caught sight of my grey hair, I could see his eyes change. So I looked for a niche and targeted it. Each job I was actually *hired* for was the result of a phone interview by someone who'd read my "niche" resume and asked me to e-mail documentation...
 
By kat-missouri on May 16, 2008 2:15 PM
So I looked for a niche and targeted it. Each job I was actually *hired* for was the result of a phone interview by someone who'd read my "niche" resume and asked me to e-mail documentation...
Well..that is a separate problem. But, no worries mate, most of the work force is about to be over the age of 50 so the young whipper snappers are going to have to start taking the interviews a little more seriously.
 
By KCSteve on May 16, 2008 3:18 PM
Another bit of advice to job seekers: No, the receptionist can't hire you. But if you annoy him / her, they can make darn sure you don't get hired. Be polite and friendly to everyone you meet - after all, your goal is to make them your co-workers.
 
By John of Argghhh! on May 16, 2008 3:25 PM
I'm thinking that WW's real point is - he's not interested in a job in a business where the culture includes a 3 piece suit. I've landed the middle ground - I work for a company that would really like us to be three-piece-suiters, but understands that if they want guys like me... well, they let me wear Polos on most days and I agree to wear a noose when it's appropriate (and there are times when it clearly is). And like Bill - I got my job from my resume', not my interview. But I'm not an entry-level employee, either. Unless I got back to retail... ick.
 
By Toluca Nole on May 16, 2008 3:53 PM
***When the applicant was offered food before the interview, he declined saying he didn't want to line his stomach with grease before going out drinking.*** That...is...awesome.
 
By kat-missouri on May 16, 2008 4:16 PM
And like Bill - I got my job from my resume', not my interview.
You didn't have to interview at all? And, I'm not in retail, I'm in healthcare. Which, actually, is worse. If I got a slobby looking guy taking your blood or talking to you about your billing, what does the patient think about their over all care? Probably something like "carp, I'm gonna die or they'll leave some forceps in me they won't find for 20 years". Like I said, we're business casual most of the time (polos and khakis are fine), but we are talking about getting hired to a job, not what you can or should wear afterwards. What to wear to an interview. That, I believe entails a tie if you are interviewing for an office job(unless applying to the kitchen or janitorial services). Find out the dress code for post interview, thank you Yesuh, I'm employed. I notice that none of the men were insisting on wearing tiger stripes or leopard print. ;)
 
By wolfwalker on May 16, 2008 4:18 PM
Kat, there's a big, BIG middle ground between demanding people not dress like bums, and demanding they dress like the CEO of Bank of America. I'm a programmer who made a mistake and let his skills get rusty at his last job, so I know I've already got at least one strike against me. I have enough trouble just getting interviews -- I average about one every three months, and I haven't been able to figure out why. Do you really think I'd do anything I knew was going to further reduce my chances? Don't answer that. It was rhetorical. I never do things I know will reduce my chances- -- but because of the infernal games you and your fellow shallow, superficial, appearance-oriented, prejudiced hiring managers so love to play, I DON'T KNOW WHAT BEHAVIOR MIGHT REDUCE MY CHANCES. When I walk into an interview, I want to know the answers to three questions: 1) who are you? 2) what do you want? 3) can I do what you want? The only questions I want to hear from you are 1) do I understand the job you're trying to fill? 2) can I fill that job? 3) can I fit into your team successfully? Everything else is bullshit. If appearance is relevant to answering any of the above questions, either mine or yours, then it should matter. If not, then it shouldn't. Period. I don't know how to play The Interview Game. I tried once, a long time ago, and discovered that the rules change with every interviewer, every company, every position. Therefore, I refuse to waste any of my time trying to learn it. If you insist that I play the game by your rules but you haven't got the common decency to tell me what those rules are, then you don't deserve to have me, or any good employee, working for you.
 
By J.M. Heinrichs on May 16, 2008 4:33 PM
It wasn't the grey hair, it was the peroxide highlights ... Cheers
 
By kat-missouri on May 16, 2008 4:54 PM
No, the receptionist can't hire you. But if you annoy him / her, they can make darn sure you don't get hired.
That is right. I had an interviewee that I was so/so about. Had decent skills, seemed confident, but came across a little bull dozer like. Sometimes, I don't mind that because you need a go getter, but they have to be able to exhibit some finesse so they don't piss off everybody else. Unfortunately, after we shook hands and they left, the executive assistance caught me in the hall and asked if I was going to hire that person. Apparently, the interviewee had gotten lost on the way and rudely and crassly demanded to know if the EA knew how to use mapquest (I sh*t you not). One wonders why they didn't use mapquest to verify the directions for themselves? interviewee not hired. personality conflict. ;)
 
By Argent on May 16, 2008 4:58 PM
Wolf: Those that hire are different people. If you really want the job you need to know what they are like because at the end of the day the idea of them hiring you based on company values is an incomplete picture. They hire you based on their own values with a company perspective. And that's the black art. Knowing what they value before you talk to them. I've never figured a good way around this one so I guess it's trial and error till you find one of those with moderate values you may want to model your interview on. Both Kat and daGoddess talk about hiring someone with a faded Goodwill tie but I'm going to put myself on the line and say I frankly don't believe they have ever hired such a person. Those type of interviewers are conservative and they feel anyone unemployed is unworthy of a job en passant because they prejudge all unemployed to be a "big sucking hole" before you even walk in. Where do you think their hard earned taxes are going? If they've seen your resume most of the time you won't even get an interview. So they project this out as such ppl thinking they are owed a job to drum home it's the other person's fault. And there's a shift from those conservatives who have some degree of class though not usually full on priggishness to the very flip flopers they interviewed becoming the interviewers. It can be a bad idea to overdress for those ones. And worse those often don't know what the company wants never mind themselves. So then it seems more like a lottery. 5 years of picking tickets must suck. I do urge you to self examine. You may be the cause. Are you really offering them what they might want. 5 years is a long time. I also urge you not to reject a place for priggishness. Live with it repay your clothes and find somewhere more in line with your values. You still *want* to look at the interviewer and other employees you contact. What can you see? For example, are they all stressed or miserable? Well you are there to assess them too. The grass is not always greener. That can mean more to a jobchanger than a jobseeker. As for dagoddess on charities, all i can say is actually go visit them. Open your eyes. Ask them questions. Let them preach and snarl. See what they have and what they are willing to offer You'll learn more than you'd ever want to and you can still return home to everything you have.
 
By Fbl on May 16, 2008 5:14 PM
Wolfwalker, I was given some very good advice during my long job search: by the time you've gotten to the point where they want a face-to-face, there's little difference between you and the other candidates. They've already decided they wouldn't mind having you on the team. So in order to whittle it down to The One, they're looking for a reason NOT to hire you. Don't give them one. Doesn't matter how small that reason is, it's their reason, and little things like dress can make all the difference. I lost at least one position that was right up my alley because I under-dressed. I was neat, clean and professional (high-end business casual), but the interviewer had been expecting executive-style dress (I didn't know the job had a development component that involved meeting local business leaders). She was "this close," to hiring me (she said), but told me straight up that I didn't present myself as someone who could've walked into an executive office. I could've kicked myself.
 
By kat-missouri on May 16, 2008 6:48 PM
I'm going to put myself on the line and say I frankly don't believe they have ever hired such a person
Not that I have anything to prove, but you'd be so wrong. Still, you are right to some degree, I am conservative in my hiring practices. I would take FbL's advice and know who you are interviewing for and what position. Every office or business has a certain culture it wants to instill and project. That is the company's perogative. You either accept it or don't. But, I'll re-iterate something I said earlier that goes along with FbLs comments. I have eight positions. Thirty people interviewed. Most with some or a lot of experience on their resume. Everything they say and do, how they appear, how they express themselves, how much information they provide, whether they "speak the lingo" of our business, can give examples of their knowledge, etc, etc, etc all goes into the decision making process. Particularly if I have a few people with similar experience on their resume. While I was being snarky here, the reality is that an interviewee should be selling the interviewer on why they are the best candidate for the job because the interviewee is competing for it and competition requires giving more than the other person to win. And, when I think that person is going to do give it more than 100%, when they give that impression in every possible aspect, when I have to decide between two good candidates, the person that made the extra effort is going to get the job. Now, you can take my advice or leave it. It's free after all and that makes the value dependent on what the recipient gives it. Which, apparently, is about nil.
 
By BillT on May 17, 2008 1:02 AM
It wasn't the grey hair, it was the peroxide highlights ... Heh. We had a guy at the Facility who used a "get rid of the grey" comb. We couldn't get him to read the ingredients on the label, so we just chuckled when he walked past a window and the sunlight highlighted the green tinge from the *lead* in the coloring agent...
 
By Justthisguy on May 17, 2008 1:14 AM
Dang, Wolf, you sound like a lot of folks on the Autie-Aspie forums on which I hang out. Believe me, I feel for you. Ever since that infamous Duke Power case, objective standards in hiring are pretty much forbidden, in favor of good impressions at the interview. Most people who do actual productive work would, I believe, rather have all of their teeth pulled slowly with no anaesthetic than conduct an interview, so that job is sloughed off onto the Personnel uh, Critters.
 
By ry on May 17, 2008 5:18 AM
I can empathize with WW, a tad. last job I went ot interview for was in CA and a guy I knew from Davis and I were both going for it. I kicked this guys butt when it came to lab work capabilities. I prooved it by outscoring him in the three lab courses we shared together(organic, modern organic synthesis lab, and inorganic methods), by a LOT. He got the job. He dressed better(tailored suit, whereas I wore otr) than me and my stutter that shows up when nervous surely didn't help either, but by objective standards I owned Mike. I heard back from the company a week later. Mike had shown up on his first day wearing flip-flops and wanted to know if I'd consider taking the job. YOu don't wear flip-flops where people are playing with HF. You're lucky if you don't get nailed for wearing cloth tennis shoes in that environment. But, hey, Mike dressed better than me. And talked a better game. Which is why I hate this whole marketing centered process. It's stupid. It rewards the bs artists more than the competent but awkward. That's not a good thing, imo. It can be a *very* useless grading point. Of course, I keep telling RBBH that when she starts interviewing we're going to have to get her a trioka of interview dressup stuff, fancier than the stuff she bought for confrences. That's the way the game is played. I don't like it, but those are the rules if one wants to play. Argent, dude, lay off da Goddess. You don't know her and haven't likely read her blog. Dude, she knows. Trust me, homegirl knows. She spent what, the last 4 years, dealing with a serious back problem that cost her just about everything except LD(Little Dude), and I'm not kidding about the financial troubles she's faced these last 48 months. She's in the BTDT (had to sell the t-shirt) category. She knows. Homegirl knows.
 
By wolfwalker on May 17, 2008 7:51 AM
Justthisguy: To be honest, I don't know whether to be happy that somebody actually understands what I'm trying to say, or irritated that some people think it means I'm mentally impaired. Yes, I know about Asperger's, and I know the symptoms. I also know exactly where my problems come from. So I know there's no match there. I have the ability to play the games Kat is talking about; what I don't have is either the necessary knowledge or the inclination. I think that people who refuse to tell me what they want, then punish me when I can't deliver it, are no better than orcs: motivated primarily by malice, unfit for polite company, and suited primarily for use as fencing dummies. With live blades. Here, I'll give you an example from this very post. Dress codes for interviews. In this age of 'business casual' environments, I need to know what level to dress for. You know, one of my interviews I walked in in jacket and tie, to be met by two interviewers in T-shirts and bluejeans. I felt so acutely out of place that it completely threw me off my stride, and the interview was a disaster. So how to change that? Well, this is the age of the Internet. Most companies have websites. Most company websites have an "About us" page that lists the senior staff and gives a brief CV on each. Isn't it blindingly obvious that the "About us" page can also serve as a cue for interview dress codes: the interviewee is expected to dress the way the senior staff is shown in their photos? If they're in three-piece suits, then the applicant should wear one too. If they're in business casual, that's acceptable for the applicant. If they're in jeans and t-shirts -- on their CORPORATE WEBSITE -- then they've got no farkin' business gigging a candidate for showing up at his/her interview in business casual clothes. On the other side, the applicant has no reason to carp about "giving the wrong impression" if the photos show business casual and he wears either spring-break party clothes or a thousand-dollar suit. See, that makes sense to me. The rules are there, even if only implicitly, and you don't need a PhD in psych to interpret them. But this line about "dress like a banker even if you're interviewing for a mushroom job" is simply posturing. It's fundamentally dishonest, and I hate it.
 
By Argent on May 17, 2008 7:54 AM
Yes I was out of line. I see that now. So I offer an apology to Kat and daGoddess in my presumption on who they hire. I was wrong. I didn't realise how much bashing the unemployed pushes my buttons. And that's what that article and this post said to me. Painting the broad flip flop skanky picture. I'll have to explore this a bit. I am not backpedaling regarding the charities. I've BTDT too and that's why i suggest a personal visitation. It may be things are different for daGoddess. Points on a graph you know. Yes they are the rules because they get to make them. If an interviewer wants powdered judicial wigs and a pink tutu that's what we'll want to put on. And the silly questions oh the questions I dislike those far more than the clothes. I actually like dressing up. Here's a few of my favourites. "What would you do if you were Prime Minister?" I fell for this one too. "What does your brother do for a job?" This reminds me of the bad date scenario where they went out with you for your brother. I'm still a bit vague on why this one was asked. I don't have a brother btw. "Are you married?" Why, are you available? "What's you biggest weakness" Oh this one is so common. Yes stuttering wouldn't play well at all and probably the stress of that makes it come out more. Bad hearing plays poorly too, You really need to understand every word they are saying and when they notice it gets translated rapidly into unhirable due to communication difficulty. So many styles too the one on one, the comfy cosy one, the panel, the competition, the multistage. Bluh there's no such thing as an easy one.
 
By kat-missouri on May 17, 2008 10:27 AM
"Are you married?" Why, are you available?
That's a violation of the EOE actually and we never ask that question. And I might add, it's not the "unemployed" that I was bashing. WE have plenty of "employed" people seeking other jobs who show up all interesting looking too. The dress thing, is really about psychology. It's not a "game" per se. What people do to prepare for the interview says a lot about what they will do to actually work there and get the job done.
 
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