previous post next post  

H&I* Fires, 30 MAY 2008

By Denizens on May 30, 2008 | | Comments (18)

Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite.

You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place...

Time to add a new caveat, because from email it's not clear to some folks (mind you, if you don't read this it won't matter...) Being an open post, people (collectively, the Denizens) other than I post in the H&I. They sign their work (most of the time) - keep that in mind when you want to flame someone in email please - if it doesn't say "The Armorer" or "John" then I didn't write it! And honestly - if you don't like something said or posted... leave a comment, and hash it out (within the context of The Rulez which are clearly posted on the comment form, I would add).

********************************

Teamkillers - it's always the retard with the flamethrower.

'Nuff said. H/t, Jim D. -the Armorer

********************************

Remember this? There was every indication that things were headed down a familiar path. It's all not entirely out of the woods, but yesterday she saw the proof: miracles still happen.

********************************

A Major's Perspective - Three Days in November Part II - Kat
********************

McCain Trusted More on the economy and Iraq. You think? And people don't like tax hikes and that a McCain presidency would lead to victory in Iraq though there is a small majority (52%) of Americans who, paradoxically, believe its more important to bring the troops home than win the war.

I wonder what order they asked the questions in? Because, if you can get victory, why would you leave? The question we keep booting around here. -Kat

Man. I can't pass this title up either: Senate’s Allure Drew McCain From Military

Sounds kind a' tawdry, don't it?
*****************************************
Too lazy to do a real IPB this week, so I’ll stick these in here.
The Head Prankster at Abu Muqawama exits the scene, gracefully. Dude, you’ll be missed. Smart @55.
--
Trying to keep up on the StratComms tip with MountainRunner: Propaganda in now officially hip.
--ry

*********************************

Today, in the comments to the 'bullets' post, I made a passing reference to "Blazing Saddles."

Then, checking email, I find this: Harvey Korman died yesterday. I always liked Mr. Korman as an actor. SWWBO and I got to see him and Tim Conway doing their act at the Silver Legacy in Reno, and it was worth twice the price of admission. As Mel Brooks told the AP:

"A world without Harvey Korman -- it's a more serious world," Brooks told the AP on Thursday. "It was very dangerous for me to work with him because if our eyes met we'd crash to floor in comic ecstasy. It was comedy heaven to make Harvey Korman laugh."

Mr. Korman served in the Navy, so, "Fair winds and following sea, sailor."

Now is the time at Castle Argghhh! when we dance: In Memoriam, for Harvey Korman. -the Armorer

*********************************

This came to me with the tag of "Another tempest in a teapot". Perhaps. But it still works at cross-purposes to what the US is trying to accomplish in Iraq. -the Armorer

**********************************

If we bitter, clingy wingnuts manage to elect Senator McCain to the Presidency, Susan Sarandon may have to move to Italy or Canada. Hmmmmmmmmm. M'kay. This is to inspire me to vote for Senators Obama and Clinton exactly how? -the Armorer

**********************************

Hmmmm. The Denizennes like chocolate. I wonder how much? A disgusted H/t to JimC, who clearly needs more work. -the Armorer

**********************************

I'll try again: marine suspended for handing out gospel coins.

Oh..and I liked this one:

Those young men and women, serving a government without the guts to even talk about a draft, are essentially indentured servants. Worse. At least indentured servants knew when their obligation would be over
-Kat

Wait...more failure and defeat in Iraq.

Er...there never was such a thing as politically correct war.

*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to that particular topic. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".

Share This Article:

Share |

Categories:

18 Comments

By Alan Briley, RN on May 30, 2008 9:05 AM
I had a liberal tell me one time, "Flamethrowers are barbaric and should not be allowed for use in modern warfare." This from an idiot who called me "baby killer" because I served as an airborne grunt and sniper. "So," I innocently (yeh, right!) asked, "There are appropriate modern wars?" He was still choking as I walked away, destroyed by his poor grasp of logic and PC thinking. For the flamethrower, he should always be aware of the warning, "BACKBLAST AREA CLEAR?"
 
By AFSister on May 30, 2008 12:28 PM
I'm not a Lib, but I do also think that flame-throwers are barbaric and unnecessary. I'm also having a problem with the US not signing the ban on cluster bombs signed by 111 other countries today. The excuse "we'll diffuse the uxo's better" just doesn't fly. http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/30/cluster.treaty/index.html
 
By John of Argghhh! on May 30, 2008 12:51 PM
How about "The Chinese and Russians aren't playing, either." Does that help? Cluster munitions are a clear menace. But when you built your doctrine around them, it's foolish to just toss 'em over the side without having made the requisite adjustments. And we are actually working on reducing the dud rate. And there is a lot more training in when to use them (they were almost a default choice, back when the SU was the major threat) and the ROE for their employment is much more strict - moreso than the ones in place for Kosovo. And while flame weapons may appear barbaric, and there is no arguing they are nasty ways to die, they don't seem so bad when your alternative is to go into the caves and bunkers and winkle the bad guy out with small arms. Of course, now we just bury 'em in the bunker and let 'em suffocate or starve. At the sharp end, AFSis, it's an ugly business. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to reduce it - and especially the post-conflict threat, but I'm not sure spending 10 minutes bleeding out with your intestines dangling around your knees is all that better a death.
 
By ry on May 30, 2008 1:53 PM
Heh. When are they going to get around to thermobarics and stuff like MOAB? From my standpoint, it isn't the dud rate. It's the 'wars over, let's go home' attitude. There's more to it than that. The 'flailtank' and other things like that make this a non-problem if people stick around to clean up their mess. I'm just waiting until someone dies from the lack of mines(and soon to be clutermunitions) and the rise of people who scream about why we didn't 'do everything'. Kind of like we saw with body armor and humvees. It's all morally superior until someone loses an eye.(What did they put into this lemonade? I seem really caustic the last couple of days.).
 
By John of Argghhh! on May 30, 2008 2:44 PM
So, we double-teamed 'em on the handing out coins. As for Mr. Reeves - yes, Mr. Reeves, it *is* a professional Army. One far, far, far more professional, and better treated, better trained, better equipped and subject to less personal danger, than any draftee army that preceded it. And that's taking nothing away from those draftee soldiers, who, despite the shortfalls and shortcomings, did amazing things - that's just putting credit where it's due. Draftee Army? Do.Not.Want.
 
By Maggie on May 30, 2008 3:36 PM
Ok, we'll take it from the top. The poster - too funny! Love the non-PC caption. Flamethrowers - I have never been in combat and it is highly unlikely that I ever will be. That said, I want my miltary to have every weapon at their disposal. I also want them trained on every weapon possible. To paraphrase the CNO, I never want my military to go into a fair fight, I want them to have every advantage. Also, if you throw out flamethrowers because they are barbaric - what next? I am told being gut shot is a slow painful death. So, will we say that our military should only take the shot if it will be a clean headshot and quick and painless death? Everything to do with McCain - Yeah, I know, he's fab. Shut up and vote for him. Bye, Susan, mind the door. Harvey Korman was a Sailor? Good deal! The Marine(s) and the coins. He's lucky I wasn't there. I would've smacked him upside the head so hard his eyes would have rolled! What the hell was he thinking? Answer - he wasn't. Clearly.
 
By Cassandra on May 30, 2008 4:10 PM
Not that much, smart aleck :p Not by a long shot!
 
By Argent on May 30, 2008 6:04 PM
I don't think there really is a point where war isn't barbaric. Killing and injuring people isn't exactly chardonnay and chit chat with gentle classical in the background. But there is better and there is worse. I really best shut up about the chocolate, i'd just get into trouble.
 
By kat-missouri on May 30, 2008 6:32 PM
I don't even want to know how they created that um..piece of work.
 
By Maggie on May 30, 2008 6:32 PM
I forgot about the chocolate! Bring it to the Milblog conference in Vegas and find out!
 
By HomefrontSix on May 30, 2008 8:22 PM
Good grief. Seriously with the chocolate? Someone (several someones, actually) has ENTIRELY too much stinking time on their hands. Really...all of the time, effort, brainpower, and money that went into creating that piece of...work couldn't have been used for something more, um, useful? Really? *sigh*
 
By big al on May 30, 2008 10:09 PM
Dumb question, are flame throwers still in inventory?.....And the only good way to die offhand ,is getting snuffed by a jealous 30 year old husband on your 85th birthday.
 
By John of Argghhh! on May 31, 2008 5:39 AM
The US Army flamethrowers went out of the inventory during/right after Vietnam. They were replaced by a rocket system, which was still in inventory in the 80s, anyway. With the proliferation of rockets like the LAW and AT-4, and the profusion of 40mm grenade launchers, the flamethrower wasn't seen as worth the risks to the operator, nor provisioning of fuel, etc, as the tactical mission was covered. Same thing is true of napalm, really. With the irony in this discussion being that napalm was considered replaceable because of... cluster bombs.
 
By AFSister on May 31, 2008 10:15 AM
I agree there really isn't a "good" way to die if you're going to start comparing gut shots to fire, however, anyone who has been burned will tell you that it's about the most painful thing you'll ever endure. It's also a slower death if you survive the initial fire. Think about the Marine who recently died in San Antonion. He suffered 2nd and 3rd degree burns over something like 90% of his body- and lived... for 3 years. Burn risk reduction is why the military banned UnderArmor thermals- they're nylon and melt when exposed to heat. The saying goes "cotton kills" when you're talking about cold weather gear, but so does melting nylon. Replacing naplam with cluster bombs is rather ironic. Heh. Considering that China, Russia and the United States are probably the most prolific users of cluster bombs, it doesn't surprise me that those three countries wouldn't sign the ban. Maybe technology has improved the "dud rate", but not enough is being done to rid the world of unexploded cluster bombs. There's a huge move to rid the world of unexploded land mines, but not enough on these cluster bombs from what I've read.
 
By John of Argghhh! on May 31, 2008 10:40 AM
There's a huge move to rid the world of unexploded land mines, but not enough on these cluster bombs from what I've read. *That* I can agree with. You have to prepare to spend a lot "after the war" to clean up the effects. And if the locals won't/can't/shouldn't do it, then we have an obligation to do so (absent starting a war again...).
 
By Argent on May 31, 2008 6:51 PM
They need to make them less pretty too. Kids can go for that.
 
By Justthisguy on May 31, 2008 8:36 PM
I'm with AF Sister, here. Burns are super double extra icky.
 
By ry on June 1, 2008 2:07 PM
On the other hand, Argent, the non=pretty colors make them harder to find for disposal too. Double edged sword, that. There's ways of doing this, and then there's accepting that wars are icky. Sometimes.