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H&I* Fires, 19 MAY 2008

Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite.

You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place...

Time to add a new caveat, because from email it's not clear to some folks (mind you, if you don't read this it won't matter...) Being an open post, people (collectively, the Denizens) other than I post in the H&I. They sign their work (most of the time) - keep that in mind when you want to flame someone in email please - if it doesn't say "The Armorer" or "John" then I didn't write it! And honestly - if you don't like something said or posted... leave a comment, and hash it out (within the context of The Rulez which are clearly posted on the comment form, I would add).

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CJ, over at his VA Mortagage Center blog, talks about why he has stayed an enlisted soldier, vice striking for a warrant or commission;

One of the questions was, “why does a Second Lieutenant make so much more money than a Staff Sergeant?” The simple answer was that the LT CHOSE to become a commissioned and the Sergeant had CHOSEN to remain enlisted.

He had a good point. Every single Soldier has the choice to go Green to Gold - going from the enlisted to commissioned ranks - provided we were high speed Soldiers who stayed out of trouble. I’ve been hounded by many of my commanders and Warrant Officers about getting a commission or going warrant. However, I like being enlisted. Why?

Heh. As if we ossifers care why you lot do what you do, as long as you do what we want you to do… and, of course, make us look good doing it! I mean, really.** ;^ ) -the Armorer

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This is good stuff. I'd sign up for this, were I still a uniform-wearing kind of fellow. Not least because I've known Greg Fontenot for a long time, from getting our respective units to REFORGER 88 and back, and beyond and between. He's a sharp man to work with and for.

To Battle Groupthink, the Army Trains a Skeptics Corps -the Armorer

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I admit, the officer in me twitched when I saw this story - the first thing out of my mouth when I saw the pic was... where-the-helk is this Marine's body armor and helmet? Answer? On the ground behind him. I wonder if he's still that macho, after being made famous by this set of photos... There are lots of reasons why he could be "combat-nekkid" but most of 'em aren't good ones. -the Armorer

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*A term of art from the artillery. Harassment and Interdiction Fires.

Back in the day, when you could just kill people and break things without a note from a lawyer, they were pre-planned, but to the enemy, random, fires at known gathering points, road junctions, Main Supply Routes, assembly areas, etc - to keep the bad guy nervous that the world around him might start exploding at any minute.

Not really relevant to today's operating environment, right? But, it *is*

The UAVs we fly over Afghanistan and Pakistan looking for targets of opportunity are a form of H&I fires, if you really want to parse it finely. We just have better sensors and fire control now.

I call the post that because it's random things posted by me and people I've given posting privileges to that particular topic. Another term of art that might be appropriate is "Free Fire Zone".


**For the irony-impaired... joke, and CJ liked it, too. -the Armorer

17 Comments

I admit, the officer in me twitched when I saw this story Apparently I've been hanging around you too much, as "where the hell is his armor" was my first thought, too--at least a helmet and vest, buddy! Yikes!
 
He's not the only one - in the first pic you can see another Marine in the background who is also without armor. WTF!?!?!
 
Yeah, but his bud to his *immediate* left is wearing his brain bucket. No vest, but at least his noggin is covered...
 
Actually, Bill - I was referring to the third guy ... to the left and farther away than the dude with a helmet on his head.
 
Yup -- the guy in the process of doing the "Duck And Cover / Switch to Alternate Firing Position" shuffle.
 
"One of the elephants in the room that we might not talk about much is the bias some people have against the Guard." Usually those are the people who've had their pet plan stepped on by a Guardsman who's suggested a better way of doing it. They become converts when the better way works and you insist they take the credit for it -- which is only proper, since they would have taken the hits if it *didn't*...
 
The Army shoots in helmets and body armor. In my Marine corps we learned to shoot in shooting vests and soft covers. Even in those days the Army had a fetish against not being helmeted and in flack jackets. Looks to me like a defensive position. Looks to me like those guys had stripped off the helmets and armor and grabbed rifles to defend themselves without undue concern about dressing formally. I know I shucked that crap everytime I had a chance to air out. Yanno somedays ... it's the thing to do. I suppose he might catch some crap from some REMF.
 
[Waves hand vigorously] Me! Me! Choose me! If preferring to snarl at my troops about body armor and helmets makes me a REMF, I choose REMF. Every time. I'd rather have them mutter about what a pussy I am than to stuff tampons in gaping wounds and write letters home to families. If that's a REMF, gimme the badge, I'll wear it. For anyone who doesn't know the term, it stands for Rear Echelon MotherF**ker. You as an individual can make those choices, Jim, and suffer the crabby carping of fastidious officers. I just see the carping as duty. It's not like I haven't worn the stuff myself. And it's also not like this stuff isn't rather more than a little better than the stuff you were using back in the day, in the aspects of protection and comfort. And you inadvertently make the case for how the Army trains. Train as you fight. If that means establishing your marksmanship habits wearing battle rattle, vice in Camp Perry style... if the result is that your troops doff their gear in order to shoot, perhaps a little re-thinking is in order. And the picture makes the case for at least wearing a helmet in a defensive position - though not being a fighting hole, I'm guessing he might be maneuvering from there at some point - at which point he has the option of leaving his gear in place, or stopping to grab it (especially if his ammo is in his web gear attached to the armor... and let's face it - it's all easier to move if it's wrapped around you, than if you have to give up a hand to carry it, or do without. And he has to be lucky every time he does it, the bad guy only has to be lucky once. Why make it easier on the bad guy? And yes, they could have been at a rest halt and gotten ambushed, and he had to immediately jump up and return fire. All true, though I don't think anyone has brought that up yet, and the relative state of dishabille actually suggests that. None of which goes to cross purposes to what I said from the beginning.
 
Jim B and John, Just ask Sgt. B (Marine) why he used to go around smacking helmetless heads on the firing range when he was an instructor at the jungle warfare school (can't remember its exact name). Hint: it came from a very personal lesson he learned in combat.
 
Since I dunno about such issues re: combat safety (the phrase itself is an oxymoron), I offer Another Thought and then y'all can laugh at me fit to scorn. First, I do agree with John about armor. It is there, use it at all times. But if it looks as if they were responding without having time to dress the part, I'd say that the PR value alone is enough to make an insurgent think twice...Warrior Gods who Escape Injury... After all, when the Marines go toe-to-toe with the Bad Guys, the Bad Guys end up losing. All the time. Regardless of the Combat Dress Code. Just saying...
 
Cricket - that falls under the rubric of "When issued lemons, make lemonade" and is a good spin to the story. It is *entirely* possible that in this instance, what you said is what happened - rest halt, something similar, and the enemy took advantage of the situation, though unsuccessfully. I was making a more general point, and trying not to get too wrapped in the particular story, except that it excited the REMF in me. (sidelong look at JimB)
 
oh geez. I drop the non-frak word and get pounded to goo but others can do all but an asterisk, use other profanity('nother word for vagina), and no wrath from gawd? Man, it sucks being gollum(i.e. Rulz peoples(even you Armorer)).
 
Hmmmm. Okay, I'll slap myself on the wrist, Gollum. And you can play street hockey again.
 
Well lookat that ... hormones!!! Okay so I don't know from beans about the Army. So I checked with my friend in the buisness .. the Green Bean. He looked at the photos too, and came to the same conclusion I did. They were at a base, they had shed their nasty stuff and were airing out when the ship hit the sand. (look no *'s) Their SOP is the same. Bullet bouncing stuff outside the wire (or base) shuck the "Hillary Clinton wrap them in armor stuff" in the base and air out and drink water. They are not too bothered by REMF's either. Or Pogues or Remington Raiders, or newsies. Matter of fact they are in the process of training a new Captain. The usual stuff... where he can go where he can't. Defining his duties as providing high cover and stay out of the way. He is learning well. He has been invited to join the Delta Boys, but he declined because he earned his place on an A Team and he wants to do a few years in that job.
 
Okay Jim. I surrender. I'm just a stupid pogue and idiot Army officer who is too wimp to comment on soldiering let alone around real warriors.. Even though I allowed for the possiblity that the exact bleeping scenario as you described was a possibility, because in this case it *was* that event, per your source, everything I said in response is just dumped into the Donovan is a pogue/REMF/Pussy folder. Gottit. I'll wear the badge. Good thing I'm retired, so I don't get in the way of manly warfighters.
 
I disagree John you are none of those things. Let me clarify who I mean is a REMF here. No one in that Marine's unit is a REMF. Possibley no one in his grid square is a REMF. The situation unfolded rapidly and he did what he was trained to do .. respond. He nearly got his head taken off .. but he lucked out. Part of the job. The REMF I was talking about is some general's aid or 24th MEU staff officer .. who wasn't there and has no personal knowledge of that day ... of that fight. But who will crap on that Marine ... that CO .. that unit because he can. They will of course dismiss the criticism and get on with their jobs.
 
Well, in that case, never mind...
 
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