<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<feed xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" xmlns:thr="http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0">
  <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html" />
  <link rel="self" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace_atom.xml" />
  <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1/tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-</id>
  <updated>2008-08-03T15:56:41Z</updated>
  <title>Comments for To Bring Peace n In Afghanistan, Talk to the Taliban</title>
  <subtitle>We&apos;re the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost.  All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT,  and KA 2003-2007</subtitle>
  <generator uri="http://www.sixapart.com/movabletype/">Movable Type 4.12</generator>

  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120</id>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html" />
    <link rel="service.edit" type="application/atom+xml" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt41/mt-atom.cgi/weblog/blog_id=1/entry_id=9120" title="To Bring Peace n In Afghanistan, Talk to the Taliban" />
    <published>2008-04-30T05:31:37Z</published>
    <updated>2008-06-01T13:27:01Z</updated>
    <title>To Bring Peace n In Afghanistan, Talk to the Taliban</title>
    <summary>[Kat] Via Michael Yon, a link to an opinion piece by someone he calls a friend. To Bring Peace n In Afghanistan, Talk to the Taliban Or, in other words, why Petraeus had to go to CentCom. I wrote last August that the problem in Afghanistan is that there is no Petraeus. Prescient or just common sense? Both, likely. I&apos;ll skip past the &quot;we are failing&quot; opening gambit and the &quot;we don&apos;t need to keep so many troops there&quot; (I&apos;ll get to that comment). Let&apos;s head right for the meat of the &quot;failed counter-insurgency&quot; in Afghanistan: Before the arrival of...</summary>
    <author>
      <name>Kat</name>
      <uri>http://themiddleground.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    
    <category term="Global War on Terror (GWOT)" />
    
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com/">
      <![CDATA[<p>[Kat]</p>

<p>Via <strong><a href="http://michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=853:to-bring-peace-to-the-afghans-talk-to-the-taleban&catid=34:dispatches&Itemid=55">Michael Yon</a></strong>, a link to an opinion piece by someone he calls a friend.</p>

<p><strong><a href="http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/575371/to-bring-peace-to-the-afghans-talk-to-the-taleban.thtml">To Bring Peace n In Afghanistan, Talk to the Taliban</a></strong> </p>

<p>Or, in other words, <strong><a href="http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hcWJu9bbzrJZ7uNHjvMn0BuTGqHQD907L1F80">why Petraeus had to go to CentCom</a></strong>.  I wrote last August that <strong><a href="http://themiddleground.blogspot.com/2007/08/problem-with-afghanistan-they-have-no.html">the problem in Afghanistan is that there is no Petraeus</a></strong>.  Prescient or just common sense?  Both, likely.</p>

<p>I'll skip past the "we are failing" opening gambit and the "we don't need to keep so many troops there"  (I'll get to that comment).  Let's head right for the meat of the "failed counter-insurgency" in Afghanistan:</p>

<blockquote> Before the arrival of our forces in strength in the south in the summer of 2006, I visited Afghans independently in the provincial capital of Helmand. ‘<strong>If the British bring security and reconstruction, they are welcome here</strong>. But if they don’t bring them, then they should leave.’ <strong>A year later — after high levels of violence and tiny amounts of reconstruction</strong> — I sat nervously with a group of young Helmandis: ‘<strong>The British tell us that we have security and reconstruction — but where is it</strong>? They should show us, not always just tell us.’</blockquote>

<p>[continued in flash traffic]</p>]]>
      <![CDATA[<blockquote><strong>The government points to huge spending. Unfortunately, the Department for International Development is mainly pushing this money into corrupt Kabul government ministries, not into the provinces.</strong> This would be all right if we had time — but <strong>we are losing the consent of ordinary Afghans in the villages by not pulling projects into Helmand</strong> that would support the valiant efforts of our young men and women in dealing with the insurgency.</blockquote>

<p>In short, as in Iraq, you have to do both security and reconstruction.  It can't be an "either/or" situation.  It has to make a difference to people directly in a community and it must be visible.  If we built a list of priorities, what would you put on it first?  We are still building the giant "ring road" that, when finished, will allow greater movement of government aid, military forces and product to market.  Hopefully, not the poppy kind although that is already what is happening on completed roads.  </p>

<p>Do schools come next?  Or, wells?  Or, electricity?  Or, agriculture?  Graineries?  </p>

<p>What if many of these things are bing done, but piece meal across the nation, without connection from community to community?  In short, using "broken windows theory" (also once referred to as the "oil spot" plan) as was done in Ramadi and Fallujah, requires a rolling economic, security and political plan.  </p>

<p>There is a huge disconnect between aid programs through NGOs, military operations and Afghanistan government activities.  Complicated by various issues such as NGOs who feel that they have to operate separately from the military in order to have trust and get things done.  Which they are limited on anyway, as Holloway points out, because the areas are often considered too dangerous to leave their small enclaves or the big bases.</p>

<p>Then there is NATO and the various limitations on their operations and areas.  In fact, one would have to hope that Petraeus is capable of wrangling these various entities into some semblance of a single plan and direction.  How to get them to concentrate on a few, visible and important projects in a specified area.  Particularly one that is "hot".</p>

<p>Of course, the issue with money going into the hands of corrupt government officials is similar to problems in Iraq.  Nothing gets done at the local level, but, in some ways, it buys off the bigger players and keeps them on our side (nominally) of the fence.  In Iraq, US forces simply started by-passing this to some degree by co-opting local officials, paying them off (much cheaper in the long run) and putting the money right in the hands of the locals either through the local co-opted official and unofficial leaders or by planning and paying for much needed projects right out of their own pockets.  </p>

<p>Does that happen in Afghanistan?  If it does, it's either "not so much" or "not enough".  </p>

<p>Still, where I disagree with Holloway in the beginning is whether we need more forces to do it effectively or less.  In Iraq, it took more because they actually had to secure the area at the same time they built.  They had to live out among the people.</p>

<p>US Marines, arriving after many deployments to Iraq, having learned these very lessons, <strong><a href="http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/1361872/in_afghanistan_marines_begin_assault_on_taliban/index.html?source=r_general">are now starting to deploy out to their forward operating bases</a></strong>.  Will COPs be next?</p>

<p>Holloway goes for the 9 thousand mile approach.  Withdraw, let them sort it out and simply support with money, weapons, etc with NGOs providing most of the work.  Besides, he notes, Afghanistan is no more important than any other troubled third world spot.  And, except for it being the cradle for the 9/11 attacks, it has no real significance in comparison.  At least, that is what I gather.  We can some how keep track of the AQ folks another way.  </p>

<p>Of course, I disagree with that view of Afghanistan as I do with Iraq for similar, but different reasons.  Iraq was, in fact, stealing history from the Islamists who have the grand caliphate as its united goal, however achievable that really is.  It was central to the rest of the Middle East.  In their back yard, so to speak, and they, the Arabs and surrounding terror supporters, could not ignore the realities of extremist activities and the real danger to themselves from a failed state with an active Islamist guerrilla force.  We couldn't let the extremists have it, no matter what.</p>

<p>Afghanistan, on the other hand, was far away from the people and the money of the Arab lands in the ME.  People could send money, support and men to that war without feeling the direct effects.  Certainly, no political activities in Afghanistan was going to bring democracy, freedom or any sort of political or ideological pressure on the boiling pot of the ME.  </p>

<p>Not letting Afghanistan go then comes down to a few necessities.  Not the least of which is that, if we can win, why would we concede one iota of scrubby brush land of Afghanistan back to Al Qaida?  As the incubator for 9/11 and the modern Islamist global war, to let that go is to become the Russians to the mujihadeen in the 1980's.  Without ever committing the number of forces or money that the Russians did.  "Paper tiger" would be the least of our worries.  </p>

<p>Still, I agree with him.  Our counter-insurgency efforts have been lackadaisical from a central planning and execution aspect.  </p>

<p>The next question is: should we talk to the Taliban?</p>

<p>Yes.</p>

<p>Keep in mind the Iraq model.  Not every insurgent is a terrorist and not every terrorist is an insurgent.  We have to be much better at separating the elements and creating solutions based on boots on the ground, community truths and realities.  </p>

<p>It is unclear whether, after all this time, we have really learned that lesson or been in a position to do so.  </p>

<p>Do we need more troops in Afghanistan?  Why, yes, I believe we do.  One may ask why we haven't done so or considered it until of late when we sent the Marines.  It is often couched in the "either/or" reflection of Iraq: if we weren't in Iraq, we would be winning in Afghanistan.  I believe that is a "yes" and "no" as well.  </p>

<p>I believe there are some very interesting, long term and over arching strategies that effected our decisions about how much effort and troops we placed into one combat theater or another.  I noted a central idea above: Iraq is in the heartland and had the most impact on the centers where extremism are supported physically, materially and monetarily.</p>

<p>Without being too obfuscating, in <strong><a href="http://themiddleground.blogspot.com/2005/10/thoughts-on-generation-kill.html">Generation Kill</a></strong> I wrote about a very classic maneuver warfare tactic: feinting in one direction while bringing up the central attack on a totally unexpected front.  In the words of Sun Tzu, attacking where the enemy is least prepared.  Check the map showing the "feint" and "push" to Baghdad.</p>

<p>Holloway gets it to some degree.  Why would we put major effort into one theater when so many are troubled and possibly create a much broader and more serious threat?  Or, in context of Iraq and Afghanistan as I noted above, when one area is likely to be much more important and effective in the over all, long term, strategic war of ideologies against Islamist extremists?</p>

<p>We move some forces into Afghanistan (feint) where it looks like our major effort against the main body is going to be and then attack the weak center.  Keeping in mind, this is a global war that requires a global strategy.  Thus, global theaters fall into the same categories and strategic necessities as any immediate and local theater or front.  In brief, we hold the main AQ force in Afghanistan/Pakistan (where's Osama and Zawahiri?) while we destroy them, their ideas, their support base, some place else.  </p>

<p>In military speak, Iraq got inside of AQs OODA Loop.  They had to play catch up in Iraq because they weren't there in force and they enacted bad strategies that back fired.  Not just in Iraq, but within the greater Islamic community they hoped to influence.  We made them use money, men and materials along with a large amount of wasta (cache) to try to take back an historically and strategically important center.  </p>

<p>Now that AQ in Iraq is all but busted, it's time to start looking towards Afghanistan and shoring up the forces that constituted our "feint".  Just like Rolling Thunder took out Baghdad and then forces focused to outlying regions or enemy forces, we have taken the center of the ME, the center of jihad, and now need to move to the peripherals: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria and Iran. </p>]]>
    </content>
  </entry>

  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72636</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72636" />
    <title>Comment from Cannoneer No. 4 on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cannoneer No. 4</name>
        <uri>http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/peoples-information-war/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/peoples-information-war/">
        <![CDATA[Damian, logistically it <em>is</em> an either or situation.  There is a finite total end strength that can be supported in Central Asia through Karachi, Chaman and Torkham.  The more non-indig trigger pullers, the fewer non-indig trainers of indig trigger pullers. 

Coalition warfare is fighting by committee. The profession of arms tends to attract national
chauvinists because they are more likely than others to consider defen[s/c]e of their Westphalian nation-state worth killing and dying over.

We need to maximize the utility of every ISAF and OEF boot at the end of that long supply line.  Send the caveated contingents home.  Stand the ANA up faster.  Task organize ANA units into ISAF/OEF formations until eventually its the ISAF/OEF units attached to Afghan Corps. Instill a healthy spirit of competition in the ANA between the proteges of different nations to prove on the batttlefield who got trained the best.

It's their country.  We need to do less direct action on their behalf, and more Foreign Internal Defense.

]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-05-01T02:29:26Z</published>
    <updated>2008-05-01T02:29:26Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72634</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72634" />
    <title>Comment from Damian on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Damian</name>
        <uri>http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com">
        Fantastic, John.  Here&apos;s another question to ask him: does the &quot;lessons learned&quot; info flow the other way (from allied militaries to the U.S. services)?  Much as I respect the professionalism of your men and women in uniform, your nation doesn&apos;t have a monopoly on good ideas or more effective execution of those ideas.

Given my experience trying to get good American ideas officially adopted up here, I&apos;d bet there&apos;s better information sharing through informal networks within Kandahar and Kabul than there is between the HQ&apos;s responsible back home in each country.  Those responsible for policy tend to be fairly parochial, whereas the fighters just want to do it the best way possible, so they don&apos;t get killed for making a mistake someone else already made and learned from.
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T21:12:40Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T21:12:40Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72633</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72633" />
    <title>Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>John of Argghhh!</name>
        <uri>http://www.thedonovan.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.thedonovan.com">
        Damian - I&apos;ll be speaking with the Director of the Army Center for Lessons Learned here at Fort Leavenworth tomorrow.

I&apos;ll ask if there isn&apos;t at least ABCA-derived access available to people.

I suspect there is, but I could be wrong, and we could certainly over-use the NOFORN marking on things.
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T20:44:05Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T20:44:05Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72631</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72631" />
    <title>Comment from Toluca Nole on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Toluca Nole</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Why am I posting this...

If we could walk with the Taliban, talk with the Taliban, 
Grunt and squeak and squawk with the Taliban, 
And they could squeak and squawk and speak and talk to us. 


    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T20:06:09Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T20:06:09Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72629</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72629" />
    <title>Comment from kat-missouri on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>kat-missouri</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<blockquote>Sometimes it's not about the quality of the work, but rather achieving the quantity required to hit a tipping point ("surge" anyone?).</blockquote>

I'd agree, but also add that they need the empowerment to take certain actions, build things, negotiate truces, etc, etc, etc right there and probably don't have it. ]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T19:35:11Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T19:35:11Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72628</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72628" />
    <title>Comment from Damian on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Damian</name>
        <uri>http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[<em>our Canadian friends excluded of course</em>

Precisely!  Because everyone knows we Canucks are already perfect the first time around!  Just ask us!

<em>*rolling eyes*</em>

I just wish ISAF and the U.S. could have a central "lessons learned" clearing house where all the ideas that actually demonstrated results could be shared, then a central decision could be made that this is how the coalition does it.

And I don't care if that good idea is Canadian, or American, or Estonian, fer heaven's sake.

But everybody gets prickly about how their own troops do things, and I worry that we're letting that get in the way of the results.

Besides that, I think it would be useful if those in charge remembered that perhaps those currently operating in RC South (Brits, Canadians, Dutch etc) might well be doing it <em>right</em>, but not doing <em>enough of it</em> because of a lack of boots on the ground.  Sometimes it's not about the quality of the work, but rather achieving the quantity required to hit a tipping point ("surge" anyone?).]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T19:02:13Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T19:02:13Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72626</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72626" />
    <title>Comment from kat-missouri on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>kat-missouri</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        <![CDATA[<blockquote>And the Afghan gov't has been actively seeking to bring former Taliban back into the fold for years now. They even created the National Commission for Peace and Reconciliation to facilitate that process.</blockquote>

One of the most interesting things from late last year and early this year has been the Afghan government insisting on expelling Brit and German diplomats who were ostensibly negotiating outside of the national government's purview.  I guess the real question is, at what level is that negotiation acceptable.

In Iraq, many negotiations start from the ground or local area out.  Frankly, I think this is the proper process.  Waiting for national reconciliation in Iraq was taking too long and I believe that is the issue in Afghanistan.  

<blockquote>With all due respect to General Petraeus, at the end of the day, the decisions about who to go after and who to negotiate with should really be up to the Afghan government, shouldn't they?</blockquote>


Yes and no.  As I was explaining above, you really have to know the local actors and separate them, as we agree, from the outsiders and then separate them again based on who locally is going to be reconcilable and who won't.  That has to happen within AO's.  In Iraq, individual units built their own intelligence and moved from that, not from any monstrous top down level or even waiting for the Iraqi government to decide how they were going to handle, for instance, the "de-ba'athification" issue.  

What they did locally was find the guy we needed to co-op to help control the area.  If he was former Ba'ath or what have you, it only mattered whether he could be potentially tied to direct crimes under Saddam or really attrocious acts against Iraqis in the current context.  Otherwise, he became a viable candidate for co-op.  Were we suppsed to, should we have, waited for the national government to figure out how they were going to handle reconciliation with former Ba'ath members?  I don't think so.  That would have been ludicrous, suicidal and the least direct method.

I would say that, that same metric has to apply in Afghanistan.  

In Iraq, there were several levels of actors within each AO. Some were national movements (like old Ba'ath), some were tribal, some were criminal gangs and then there were the outsiders.  I imagine that it is the same in Afghanistan yet complicated by the much larger and multitudinous tribes, ethnicity, religion, language, etc.

I don't expect that Petraeus is going to decide back at Centcom who we should or should not negotiate with.  What I believe that Petraeus will do will be directing the forces there to take control and develop their own AOs, their own leads, their own priorities and their own target/negotiation lists.  I imagine, no matter what, that people like the Haqqani network joining national reconciliaiton will be more related to national government over all, but that units operating in the areas where they are prevalent will do their best and utmost to cleave off any extraneous or peripherals to that organization in order to isolate them more effectively from the population and make their transition to being a part of the political process more likely.  That last part will be the unit's responsibility, not the central government.

Particulary as their ability to project anything into those areas, force, construction, etc, is limited without us.  Petraeus will most likely work towards getting the Afghan government to see it our way.  Just as I don't expect that Petraeus can decide on whether every actor is either a target or potential negotiation, neither do I expect the Afghan government to know.  At least not fully.  Nor to make such decisions on the very local level.

Second, I believe that Petraeus did wonders on getting a unified view and performance of counter insurgency out of the US military in Iraq, across the marines, Army, Air Force and Navy, making it truly joint.  Being the commander of MNF-I gave him some clout, but if you understand anything about the "joint" operations aspect, it is a lot about getting commanders across the armed forces and down through the ranks to "buy in" to the program.  Iraqi and American forces.

I imagine that is going to be his focus at CentCom to some respects.  First to get all of our forces in Afghanistan operating in a specific direction and second to get our allies to work with us in the same manner.  The last is probably going to be the most difficult, but, considering that Petraeus also had to get the various Iraqi factions to do the same, he has plenty of experience at working with prideful knuckel heads ( our Canadian friends excluded of course; he who bleeds with me and all that...)
]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T18:37:28Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T18:37:28Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72623</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72623" />
    <title>Comment from Damian on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Damian</name>
        <uri>http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[Cannonner No.4, I'm with you on the OMLT and POMLT teams - more would be better.  But I'd also like to see better coordination between those teams nation by nation.  The U.S. sings off a different OMLT songbook than the Canadians, who train Afghans a bit different than the Brits, etc.  So when "trained" ANA or ANP forces operate for the first time with NATO militaries other than the one that trained them, there can be hiccups.  Heck, even between Afghan troops who were trained up differently by different NATO countries.  The problem with coordinating that is that everyone seems to think they do it best, and it's the other guy who should compromise...

<em>Fewer non-indig trigger pullers and more trainers of indig trigger pullers.</em>

I'd disagree with you a bit on this: we need more trainers of indig trigger pullers, but we also need more non-indig trigger pullers, especially in RC South.  Hence the utility of the 24th MEU rolling into Helmand to augment the Brits, recently.  And my country's been calling for another battle group on the ground in Kandahar for quite awhile now.

I just don't think it's an either-or proposition.]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T16:48:57Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T16:48:57Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72618</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72618" />
    <title>Comment from Damian on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Damian</name>
        <uri>http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://www.toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com">
        <![CDATA[Kat, I'd like to make a couple of points about your piece here.

First, you ask <em>"If we built a list of priorities, what would you put on it first?"</em>

Howzabout we ask the Afghans themselves.  There's a current program called the <a href="http://www.nspafghanistan.org/about_nsp.shtm" rel="nofollow"><strong>National Solidarity Program</strong></a> in Afghanistan.  For anyone interested in this nation's grassroots reconstruction, if you don't know about this, you should read up.  I've written about it <strong><a href="http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2006/12/first-aid.html" rel="nofollow">here</a></strong>, with some interesting stats, and some commentary on the usefulness of most NGO's.  The most telling  stat is that because of the Community Development Councils' local nature, and the fact that communities must contribute a minimum of 10 percent of the total project costs in either labour, funds, or materials, less than one percent of the initiatives launched through the NSP have been destroyed or targeted by insurgents.

The locals have skin in the game, and won't tolerate the Taliban thugs tearing down what they just built themselves.

As far as negotiating with the Taliban is concerned, it's already being done.  When I interviewed BGen David Fraser, who commanded RC South during Op Medusa last year (as the Cdns, Brits, Dutch and others were taking over from the U.S.), one of his primary objectives was to separate the hard-core ideologues, often from outside Afghanistan, from the locals who just needed a paycheque and some security for their family.  And the Afghan gov't has been actively seeking to bring former Taliban back into the fold for years now.  They even created the National Commission for Peace and Reconciliation to facilitate that process.

With all due respect to General Petraeus, at the end of the day, the decisions about who to go after and who to negotiate with should really be up to the Afghan government, shouldn't they?

Anyhow, it's an interesting discussion, that's for sure...]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T15:12:48Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T15:12:48Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72613</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72613" />
    <title>Comment from Cannoneer No. 4 on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>Cannoneer No. 4</name>
        <uri>http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/peoples-information-war/</uri>
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2007/09/16/peoples-information-war/">
        <![CDATA[When you consider the route of your <a href="http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/listen-to-your-loggy-toads/" rel="nofollow">Line of Communications</a> from your Sea Port of Debarkation, and then add in the <a href="http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=785" rel="nofollow">source of your Cl III</a>, you begin to understand why we don't have 160,000 troops surged into Afghanistan.

We need fewer caveated boots on the FOB and more of the right kind of boots, like <a href="http://cannoneerno4.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/no-sons-of-afghanistan-need-apply/" rel="nofollow">Police Mentoring Teams</a> and Operational Mentoring and Liaison Teams.  Fewer non-indig  trigger pullers and more trainers of indig trigger pullers.

]]>
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T13:03:05Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T13:03:05Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
  <entry>
    <id>tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120-comment:72611</id>
    <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:www.thedonovan.com,2008://1.9120" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html"/>
    <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/to_bring_peace.html#comment-72611" />
    <title>Comment from fdcol63 on 2008-04-30</title>
    <author>
        <name>fdcol63</name>
        
    </author>
    <content type="html" xml:lang="en" xml:base="">
        Examples like Basra and Afghanistan expose how ineffective the British and European &quot;Soft Sell&quot; approach (less confrontational) is when dealing with insurgencies and armed militias in a Muslim culture.

It may work in a constabulary environment where the population has been utterly defeated and is ready for peace. But it fails miserably with a culture that glorifies death, whose civilian population has been spared the worst of the horrors of war, and who don&apos;t recognize that they have been truly vanquished.
    </content>
    <published>2008-04-30T12:42:24Z</published>
    <updated>2008-04-30T12:42:24Z</updated>
  </entry>
  
</feed>

