We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:56:31 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification [Kat] Reading this story from Bob Krumm, his last paragraph brought a little story to mind: Actually, I have heard several people complain about one thing: the food in the mess hall. Even with new Soldiers some things never change. In March, while attending the Vets For Freedom event at the World War I Museum, I met vets from several eras including Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm. I spoke to several of these gentlemen about their service. One gentleman, Mr. Oelklaus, told me a story that sounded utterly familiar. It was 1967 and his was stationed on a forward operating... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:29:02 -0600 believe we were clean, anyway.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72178 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72178 Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:30:06 -0600 Sign just up on the latrine door: Water Conservation Now In Effect -- Combat Showers (3-Minute Limit!) Mandatory! Bear in mind, I'm living with Air Force guys. Cap'n Chris asked me my thoughts on 3-minute combat showers. "Great idea! I get an extra two minutes!" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72158 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72158 Fri, 18 Apr 2008 05:13:18 -0600 Hey, Blade, at least it built character! [runs away, dodging and jinking] http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72144 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72144 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 20:53:00 -0600 Memories from a trip to Fort Irwin in 1985: 1. The light infantry battalion completes its participation in the light/heavy NTC rotation and pulls back to its bivouac area in a picturesque portion of the Ft. Irwin reservation which rejoices in the name of "Lizard Gulch." 2. The ground surface in the bivouac area consists of a random assortment of rocks and stones ranging in size from stones the size of your head to boulders the size of a Chrysler minivan. Flat surfaces large enough to accommodate an individual soldier in a sleeping bag, let alone tents and parking areas for vehicles are conspicuous by their absence, with the exception of a large, very flat sandy area which is fenced off and marked with signs indicating that it is a breeding area for a nasty species of biting fly, that the fly is on the Endangered Species List, and that the fine for killing one of these rare creatures is $5,000 per bug. 3. In order to insure that the portable toilets can be serviced efficiently by the civilian contractor, all portable toilets have been set up adjacent to the hard-surface road 700 meters to the east of the bivouac area. 4. After a 24-hour rest and recovery period, all of the battalion's vehicles, including the mobile kitchen trailers, are moved to the railhead and entrained for return to the unit's home station. Battalion draws 10 superannuated 5-ton 6x6 trucks from prepo stocks to provide troop and baggage transport for the five days remaining until the unit is scheduled to fly back to its home station. 5. The heavy brigade and combat support group whose rotation the battalion is supporting informs the battalion that due to personnel shortages in MOS 94B they cannot provide hot meal support to the battalion, and that the battalion should prepare to assume a C-C-C ration cycle until it redeploys to home station. 6. The brigade sergeant-major informs the battalion sergeant-major that a shower point has been established in the brigade support area. The light infantry battalion is assigned a block time for use of the shower point from 1400-1600 each day. Many soldiers in the battalion greet this announcement with enthusiasm, as many have not had an opportunity to bathe in nearly four weeks, there being more important uses for water than bathing while fighting a war in the desert. 7. The following day, several hundred soldiers from the battalion climb into the fleet of decrepit 5-tons and set forth for the shower point. After 15 minutes of bumping across the large and larger rocks that make up what is alleged to be the "road" leading into the bivouac area, two of the seven trucks assigned to the mission have broken down, and their passengers are distributed among the five remaining vehicles, which are now about as crowded as a Tokyo subway car at rush hour. Having now reached the more-or-less-level desert floor, the convoy spends the next 30 minutes driving across said desert floor to the brigade support area in a cloud of dust. 8. Upon arriving at the shower point, the troops dismount from their vehicles and are amazed to discover that not only is there water left at the shower point at 1400 hours, there is LOTS of water available. Everybody gets a LONG hot shower, after which, with damp skin and damp hair, they climb back into their ancient trucks and drive 30 minutes across the desert floor in a cloud of dust before bumping over the boulders back to their bivouac area, arriving there feeling for the most part rather dirtier than they had been before they left. 9. Repeat, with suitable variations, until the buses arrive to take them to the airport. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72138 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72138 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:06:59 -0600 Heh...John. I thought that looked wrong. I even had "woebils" when I was a kid with a little woebil tree house. they could fall *out* of that tree, though. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72101 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72101 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:28:13 -0600 Kat - "weevil" Easy to tell the differences - weevils are insects that infest food and cotton... woebils on the other hand, well, they wobble, but they don't fall down! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72081 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72081 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:56:16 -0600 From "Murphy's Laws of Combat" -- If the REMFs have new uniforms and boots, the troops in the sticks *don't*." http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72076 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72076 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:08:50 -0600 TINS: there i was, in north Ft Hood, on AT with an Evac Hospital.... late 80's(11H10, serving as the 54B, pending final school, which never came.) after the better part of two weeks of fun in the garrison, the line troops we were supporting came back to the area and began washing vehicles. there was much whining amongst the troops in my AO: "i went to take a shower at lunch and there was no water pressure." a discerning eye could see the hose sprays over the building, and a blind man could see why water pressure was down. i offered to escort the various whiners over to the wash racks where the 11's, 13's and 19's were finally getting a bath, albeit informally, so that they could ask that them to stop so the REMF's in question could get their additional daily showers..... unfortunately, they were just smart enough to *not* take me up on the offer. %-) /Harmony Church rules http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72074 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72074 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:12:58 -0600 My Old Man told me a couple of times about when meeting up with Yanks in WW2,the Canadians would gladly trade with your guys,the tinned mutton for the C-rats of yours......He hated the mutton as much as you guys hated the c-rats and swore the Aussie ranchers used to roll the carcasses in the fleeces to get that special flavour.....And he never ate mutton to the day he died ,either. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72071 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72071 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:25:12 -0600 Yeah...some centurion probably ticked off at the dude who ate the last of the gruel and woebil(?) laden bread. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72070 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72070 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:16:11 -0600 I think it was Bill Mauldin who coined the word, "Garri-troopers." It was always thus, I reckon. I betcha the Legions had to put up with similar stuff. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72067 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72067 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:39:14 -0600 Hey, Martin! Glad to see you. I was hoping I had waited too long to put it up. We are fans around here of war stories so feel free to pop in once in a while to leave us a gem or two. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72065 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72065 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:26:46 -0600 Thanks Kat! Today you made fat old man smile. Martin http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72063 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72063 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:18:16 -0600 Heh. I was thinking the same thing and resisted writing anything about the rear echelon being often as far away from the grunts pounding dirt as any civilian far away from the battle field. I think I gained a new appreciation for that after reading Bellavia's book wherein after ten days in Fallujah, they came out, dirty, tired, sick and barely able to move while they watched all the clean, spiffy uniformed guys line up and eat all the hot chow that had ostensibly been laid out for the guys coming out of Fallujah. Gave a whole new perspective on REMFs v. ground pounders. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72047 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72047 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:02:51 -0600 I'd probably side with the guys outside the wire who wanted to use up all the hot water. They're the ones keeping the showers from getting blown away with rockets. A small nuance. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72046 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72046 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:43:41 -0600 Yeah....Love that whole "theory" of war stuff. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72036 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72036 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:33:20 -0600 Theoretically, we had hot showers back in the day. Because -- theoretically -- the sun beating down on the 55-gallon drum "water heaters" would warm the water. Theoretically. Also -- theoretically -- there were no US combat troops in the Mekong Delta after August of '69. Just us helicopter pilots, assorted SEALS and SeaWolves, Green Beanies, Mikes and Swifties, Air Force Black Hats, and Marine Tiger Teams. No *combat* troops, though. And he's right -- the food was *awful*... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72033 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/in_war_the_more.html#comment-72033 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:14:28 -0600