We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:55:56 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite. You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place... Time to add a new caveat, because from email it's not clear to some folks (mind you, if you don't read this it won't matter...) Being an open post, people (collectively, the Denizens) other than I post in the H&I. They sign their work (most of the time) - keep that in mind when you want... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:45:22 -0600 Ry: There's only one real ethic in business. Every other ethic has to feed of the first. It has to be financially justified. Long term or short term. Not only that, the leaders and consumers have to have the vision to see such a new ethic in action. This has not been the case in news and I do not foresee that changing anytime soon. Maggie: If the pope wanted to display his displeasure he only had to open his mouth and speak. No, you invited the pope to your nation. This is not Miss Marple's teaparty with the vicar. And even that involves saying things the vicar may not want to hear. Diplomats are not just guests because the goals are different. The question to ask yourself is this. Why were they invited? If it was merely to convey pleasure to the guest then sure it's all politeness, niceness and pink petunias. Not a feather ruffled. Even this, I do not sit well with. Ask yourself have you never ever ruffled the feathers of a guest invited to your home? But diplomats go places for Reasons. They are invited for Reasons. Such Reasons are very rarely to just involve and convey pleasure. It's quite a bit of business. You see what I am getting at? The core of this is the difference between friends and allies. Something I think one of your founding fathers or leaders impressed on you. To you the pope is probably more a friend which explains your outrage, but to the US he's just an ally. It's really something I have to touch on more deeply considering Australia is in that position of ally not friend as well. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72407 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72407 Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:16:47 -0600 MacGyver says, with regard to said Apache crew, they are in the back of the Chinook. Apaches can't handle that many passengers... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72403 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72403 Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:47:53 -0600 "Maggie if you look carefully, politeness may be the normal order of the day in diplomatic circles but sensitivity to feelings is not." Again, I feel this is splitting hairs. We, in essence invited a guest into our home. What is the difference between being polite, being good hosts and being sensitive to our guests feelings? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72402 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72402 Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:24:20 -0600 Casey, yeah, and that's why Eric Alterman isn't 100% wrong when he derides the MSM as 'corpratist'. That still doesn't mean that it's wrong how they do it now. If the industry had an ethical core they wouldn't do it like they do currently. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72399 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72399 Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:29:34 -0600 reporter. ;) Damien highlights a separate issue: the fact that modern "journalism" is really a subset of the entertainment industry. Back in the day (when both 60 Minutes and Dan Rather were respectable) the Big Three (CBS, NBC, ABC) didn't worry about the profitability of their news divisions. The news was a form of public service. These days, the news division of a media corporation is expected to generate revenue just like all the other divisions; hence the "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality. A tremendous portion of our day-to-day intercourse is guided by the MSM's innate dedication to any kind of scandal or controversy, just to generate good ratings. This tends to explain why the same organizations (say the NYT) are quite willing to laud Hilary or McCain one month, then flay them the next. It's all about generating hot buzz for that particular publication. Even Fulford's piece accepted the idea that scandal trumps objective. fdcol63 sez: 'Imagine a world where over 90% of journalists, academia, and Hollywood described themselves as "conservative" or "right of center". Did that scare you? Did you doubt their "objectivity"?' Dude, that's not a hypothetical, that's freaking science fiction... Heh. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72396 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72396 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:46:14 -0600 Maggie if you look carefully, politeness may be the normal order of the day in diplomatic circles but sensitivity to feelings is not. It is possible to be objective. If your life and hopes are anything but, it's really a personal experience for you, not the way things actually are. Lack of objectivity in the media is related to the consumer and the lack of consequence for lining the facts with errors, spin, distortions and outright lies. They sell fabricated emotion, where the story is against a consumer's principles or for it yielding the emotionally addictive qualities required. They do not sell truth because few are buying it. How much do you pay for your news? You, Ry, brief? Hmm so it can be done. Lab journals you know are not entirely to serve you despite what you may have been told. Underneath the memory and diagnosis aid they can be, they are to allow the research entity to prove intellectual ownership of your ideas in case it's a problem later. Sometimes it's also used to show you're actually working. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72395 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72395 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:24:56 -0600 Oh, you didn't just play the multi-culturalism card, did you Maggs? Right, so the next time our President goes to some country they ought to do things our way, you konw, to make them feel welcome. It's our rather formal thing. AFAIK, the Pope hasn't complained about it so what's the big deal? It's possible to be objective, and brief. That's what they do when they teach you to keep a lab journal(put as much detail into as few words as possible). It can be done. Likely is another story. Casey, I dunno, I just don't trust journos(on avg, some are okay). The mere fact that they're intentionally doing something to bring emotion into a statement of fact makes the whole exercise suspect to me. Yes, there's a lot more to it than simply reporting what is or wasn't said. But a lot of it is. There wouldn't be complaints if they hadn't screwed the whole enterprise up somehow. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72389 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72389 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:49:34 -0600 The Pope arrived as Head of State not as vicar." So? When another Head of State arrives on our shores, we should not be sensitive to their feelings to the extent which we are able? What's the message when we give you a big welcome and then play a song that highlights a painful difference of opinion? There were plenty of other options and we should have exercised them.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72354 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72354 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:21:49 -0600 Imagine a world where over 90% of journalists, academia, and Hollywood described themselves as "conservative" or "right of center". Did that scare you? Did you doubt their "objectivity"? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72350 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72350 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:33:45 -0600 this Robert Fulford piece about the fairy tale. And remember: fairness and objectivity aren't the same thing. One may be achievable in the reporting world, and the other simply isn't.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72348 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72348 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:25:14 -0600 Hence the Rulez for this place. Hence, why Ace is much more popular. I refuse to accept it has anything to do with content. 8^ ) I'm sure it's all to do with commenting policy. Yeah, I believe that. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72347 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72347 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:36:31 -0600 Hmmm, that's not what the former UPI guy who taught Journalism at Miami told me, Ry. His primary question was: what's the real story? We had to learn to identify that before we proceeded to the whole "pyramidal writing" bit. :) He used to give us handouts which replicated incomplete notes and bad grammar as if taken from actual sources, then we would have to figure out the real story; he didn't just tell us. Caveat: I was not a Journalism major, but followed a special interest in technical writing, wherein I included journalism. Honestly; while there were obviously liberal professors at Miami University's English Department, everyone I've ever worked with was quite professional, and I never encountered any attempt at any kind of indoctrination there. Over at Ace's place some of the commenters have gotten rather ugly about McGovern's comments. Yes, go after the man's position or policy, but they're taking the low road, such as hoping he shuffles off this mortal coil ASAP. McGovern may be a goofy, squishy liberal, but also served honorably as a bomber pilot. In fact (just checked Wiki) he was awarded the DFC. Not too shabby. I think we can beat him up pretty well just on policy, without getting personal. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72346 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72346 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:27:43 -0600 I'm going to have to dissent, tangentially, on the no objectivity thing, Fuzz. Yes, there is such a thing as objectivity. If an electron of specific energy hits a detector in my IR spectrometer it tells me something. The conclusions I draw from that are something else entirely. News *can* be objective, and Ace hit on what the MSM should be doing: don't chew our steak for us just tell us what happened. If they did that news would be objective. "He said this, she said this in response." It would be utterly boring, but it'd be objective. Of course, they don't teach that much. No, one of the first things I remember being taught about journalism back in HS was that you had to have a 'hook', something that grabbed the attention and got the reader emotionally involved. That's a flippin' mistake, imo. BUt, yeah, news can be objective. It'd read like methodology section in a chemistry journal, but it'd be objective. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72345 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72345 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:34:14 -0600 Being a POW means you were incompetent? Heh. A claim that can only be made by someone who's never walked or flown the fields where the Iron Crosses grow. Sometimes, the math just sucks. Oh, it *can* mean you became a POW because of incompetence, yours or other's - but the reverse doesn't hold true, that you're incompetent because you were a POW. As for the disability thing - my 70% rating is because of the short-term and long-term costs and limitations on my ability to live an average normal physical life. I get money because my hearing is damaged, my joints are damaged, and my endocrine system is damaged. I can still work, and make decent money doing it, too - but out at the farm, I work deals with people to get physical things done I used to be able to do for myself (or I impress Gollum). That's what the payment is for. I can't swing a hammer over my head anymore - not for more than a few whacks, because if I do, my left leg ceases to work because of damage to my neck - caused by my service. Besides, this meme coming from the people who gave us the Americans with Disabilities Act, and who revere the wheelchair-bound President Franklin Roosevelt - well, lets just say their grip of history is a little shallow or skewed. More honestly speaking - they consider being a Republican the disability that disqualifies you from the Presidency.... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72343 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72343 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:17:03 -0600 The Pope arrived as Head of State not as vicar. He received a 21 gun salute as is our custom for all Heads of State. While he, like most sane people, is against war, a goodly number of his flock has the freedom to practice their religion because people wearing the uniform of the singers paid for that freedom. It isn't bad form to remind him of that fact. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72340 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72340 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:08:43 -0600 While the BHotR is a very stirring piece and the Army Chorus does an incredible job with it.....it was completely inappropriate to play this selection for the Pope. Pope Benedict is opposed to war in general and our going into Iraq in particular. I don't know if the playing of this hymn was an oversight or a zing, I'd like to think the former. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72339 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2008/04/hi_fires_23_apr_1.html#comment-72339 Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:28:51 -0600