Comments for Something about this picture...

Something about this picture...

2008-02-14T15:41:33Z

...asks more questions than it answers.

As an added bonus, here's a fascinating little photo-essay on the raising of a BT-5 from the bottom of the Neva River at the site of the fighting at the Nevskij Bridgehead.

They also got a KV-1 and a T-38 Amphibian Tank.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-02-15

2008-02-15T21:58:08Z

That's naughty, Toluca. Shame!

Comment from Toluca Nole on 2008-02-15

2008-02-15T19:26:22Z

Of course! Maiskolben in der Mündung. Ironically, that was a huge song in Germany.

Comment from MajMike on 2008-02-15

2008-02-15T18:39:08Z

ramming staff w/o a "T" handle??

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-02-15

2008-02-15T14:45:55Z

Martin got what got me - what's that in the muzzle? It also seems to be what the Germans are staring at. Bill covers a lot of the possibilities, another couple being - wartime manufacturing glitch - a "primer only" round. Could be a cook-off from fire, with slow enough temp rise that the propellant degraded, generating less pressure when it cooked off. Or, it could just be a corncob, like Martin suggested. Though I don't think that would be as interesting to the German soldiers. Dunno. Just thought it was interesting and decided to share.

Comment from BillT on 2008-02-14

2008-02-15T04:47:56Z

The little beast definitely took two solid-shot hits in the left side of the engine from something *big* -- if it took the hits just as the main gun was fired, could the breech have been sheared, resulting in the sudden loss of pressure that caused the round to stick in the tube? I can't figger any other reason aside from the primer firing without the main charge following suit.

Comment from Martin Morehouse on 2008-02-14

2008-02-15T04:11:49Z

The only things I can see that catch my eye on the BT-5 picture is the damage to the tank's right side, some sort of damage to the left side, above the third road wheel, and what looks like a corncob stuck in the muzzle of the gun. Otherwise it reminds me of an M113 one of my lieutenants dropped into a gully once, and broke off all the road wheels on that side. The wrecker crew were not pleased.

Comment from Boquisucio on 2008-02-14

2008-02-15T02:18:37Z

On size of the tank, tanks of that era were much smaller than those of the latter stages of the War. For example, the French Char B or British A9 Cruisers were behemoths of the 40' Blitzkrieg, but were quickly out classed in the middle and latter stages of the War. By the time the Centurion came along in 1945, for example BT-5's looked puny in comparison.

Comment from Kevin on 2008-02-14

2008-02-15T01:33:32Z

"Their size doesn't matter. As the Germans discovered, it's the fight in them that matters." Esp when suitably fortified by afore mentioned distilled spirits and properly motivated by NKVD Kommisars backed up by security squads with machine guns positioned behind their own lines. Never underestimate your opponent, learn from history and don't repeat the mistakes of previous Generals. Our own administration would be wise to adhere to this advice, but, I digress. The main angle of my post was to remark on how friggin' SMALL these pieces of equipment were and how tiny their crews had to be to operate them. I never met a Russian or WP member, officer or enlisted whom I didn't dwarf in stature. Save for the belly. Lordy, those WP General officers were.... portly.... And, yes, to re-emphasize my previous. What a group of drunken, thieving, murderous thugs! Black Passports rule!

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-02-14

2008-02-15T00:27:43Z

Their size doesn't matter. As the Germans discovered, it's the fight in them that matters.

Comment from Kevin on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T23:55:28Z

One thing that has always struck me about Russian/Soviet equipment was how SMALL the crew compartments were/are. The Russian "superman" simply didn't/doesn't exist. I've seen cockpits on Migs and tank compartments that even tiny lil' Mongolians would have had to squeeze into. The photo of the BT-5 and the people standing next to it and the poor fellow shimmying down the turret of the amphib merely emphasize how SMALL these weapons actually were. For that matter, the vast majority of the Warsaw Pact officers, NCOs and enlisted I met were scrawny, pathetic examples of humanity. With the sidenote of just how, er, ah... portly... some of the WP General Officers were. And what a collection of drunks and thieving brutes they were... Oh the stories... diplomatic incidents and such I could tell.... Thank the Lord for Diplomatic Immunity.... Anyhow, rambling on. Russian equipment is so small as are their crews, when compared to us decadent, better fed, westerners. Steak and potatoes vs... potatoes, preferably distilled....

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T23:03:48Z

Chris - good catch, I hadn't even *thought* of ice. Sandman - the horses are towing a wagon, that is visible just behind the tank. I'm going to let a few more people take a gander before I tell you what caught my eye almost instantly.

Comment from Murray on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T22:58:05Z

It might be just me but the mates of mine who ended up under their iron stallions came of second best and the rest of us stayed away from big heavy metal things leaning over. Is this some kind of multiple Darwin?

Comment from sandman6actual on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T22:34:12Z

Hmm....I notice that the tank is being pulled by horses. Might mean it's kinda light, it don't look like there's a lot of "horsepower" there. I also notice that right under the main gun, there's something weird there. Is that a turbine?? Thanks for the link. That amazes me that they're still in that good condition after that many years underwater. Didja notice the MG in amongst the pics of the T-38??

Comment from Chris Sandvick on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T22:26:32Z

As far as how the BT-5 ended up in the river the Soviets routinely used frozen rivers as roads during the winter time. This one probably just went through the ice due to thaw, damage or weight.

Comment from Chris Sandvick on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T22:19:03Z

Maybe you can give us a hint? It looks like a knocked out BT-5 that's been pushed off the road with a bunch of Wehrmacht gawkers standing around. Aside from the damage to the tank the only thing I can think of is there might be a corpse in the drivers position that's been censored out.

Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T21:03:41Z

Knocked out and pushed off a bridge, perhaps. Sunk while being barged across. No one finds something odd about the original picture?

Comment from big al on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T20:53:50Z

Good link. But how did a bunch of unanphibious tanks get in the middle of a river in 45 feet of water? A barge get hit with cargo on board?...Make a nice lawn ornement thought,eh?

Comment from JimC on 2008-02-14

2008-02-14T16:19:33Z

This is very cool and it is really interesting to follow the hotlink. Thanks for the great short diversion on a heavy reading day at work.