Comments for Inherent Right to Self Defense Part II: Social Contract Theory We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 16:11:27 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Inherent Right to Self Defense Part II: Social Contract Theory [Denizen Commentary - Kat] Continuing Series on the Inherent Right to Self Defense and its effect on the Second Amendment from Part I: Setting the Precedent. In Part I, I argue that the founding fathers of this nation had set the historical precedent for the right to "keep and bear arms", both as a defense against oppression of the government and as a personal defense against other men and the elements. Urbanization, advanced technology, improved law enforcement and judiciary, nor any alleged development of conscience and morality has not changed the reality or necessity of this defense. It is, in... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:34:40 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-12-08 Geo...I'd say, yes. But, we are talking about their choices v. likely outcome. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67404 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67404 Sat, 08 Dec 2007 03:55:24 -0600 Comment from GeoSTI on 2007-12-08 Kat, wouldn't part of the suit be about determining what the definition of militia is? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67402 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67402 Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:55:44 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-12-07 Trias...you gave me the idea to expand a little bit since I made the bad assumption that whoever was reading my thesis would naturally know which philosophies, thus effect on thinking and morality, were at play in our founders ideas. Very bad thesis writing. So, yes, I dropped in the "connection" before I dove into the documents. Thank you for your inspiration as it were. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67368 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67368 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:49:45 -0600 Comment from Trias on 2007-12-07 Looks like you're kind of snowballing an idea here, will be interesting to see part 3. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67367 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67367 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:38:31 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-12-07 Option two - Right exists only for a well regulated militia, which we do not have, and Federal Government is sued to provide every law abiding adult with a suitable "militia weapon" and we all get target practice on our M-16's and M-4's. hehehe Well, there are a few other options: Option 3) Right exists for a "well regulated militia" which they view as the "national guard" (since most "militias" were eventually designated as such) and no one has a gun except on drill day, taken out of the local, well secured armory. Option 4) If they argue to strenuously for the right to only exist for a "militia" controlled and armed by the state, then they essentially argue themselves out of the "right to rebellion". The left has a long history of and prides themselves on "rebellion". If you make guns as only a source of a government organized militia, then the state has all the power and use of force and the ability to "rebel" is diminished to zero. Then, someday, if they decide we have gone too far right and they need to rebel, how will they justify it having thrown out Locke and the inherent right to self defense along with the guns? I suggest that trying to reconcile these two ideas is causing a serious melt down -- Does not compute. does not compute. Heh.
One thing to note.... the tragic shooting in Omaha.. was in a NO FIREARM ALLOWED Mall... seems it was a gun free zone.. yea that works...
That is the problem with the "leviathan" theory of social contract and, as I note, the rather foolish idea that laws are somehow "pro-active" or "preventative" measures against crime and the breaking of the social contract. Laws and their enforcement are, at best, re-active. The failure of our current society and their reliance on this false "pro-active" theory is what has them going into a frenzy every time something happens to prove the fallibility. That frenzy usually demands even more "preventative" laws that continue to fail miserably. Drug free school zones are not "pro-active". People pretend they are in order to make themselves feel better about working to improve society, but all those zones do is add time on the back end of a sentence AFTER the criminal gets caught. It never stops them or only stops some. Those few stopped are a drop of rain on the wind. What we hope is that it provides HObbes "fear factor" and enough will fear the state and the punishment to adhere to this new rule in our social contract. My thoughts pretty much tend to believe that those who are willing to break the social contract already do not fear the state and are not going to regardless of how many "free zones" we put in place. So, these are just "feel good" ideas that make society believe they are protecting their children and the rest of society. It's like the emperor's new clothes. No one wants to believe that society is naked.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67365 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67365 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 09:27:08 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-07 kat - I see no libs/GFWs have come out to debate your points. Maybe you did such a good job on your logic, history, etc, they feel hopeless... I think the Rulez keep them away. We're no fun.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67362 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67362 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:58:32 -0600 Comment from MR T's Haircut on 2007-12-07 I think they are worried that no matter how it comes down, they lose. Option one - Individual right to bear arms... they lose. Option two - Right exists only for a well regulated militia, which we do not have, and Federal Government is sued to provide every law abiding adult with a suitable "militia weapon" and we all get target practice on our M-16's and M-4's. hehehe One thing to note.... the tragic shooting in Omaha.. was in a NO FIREARM ALLOWED Mall... seems it was a gun free zone.. yea that works... Wonder why the MSM is not reporting that little fact???? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67361 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67361 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:55:40 -0600 Comment from Oldloadr on 2007-12-07 Heh, whatever works as long as they submit... "... resistance is futile." http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67360 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67360 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:54:08 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-12-07 Hmm..I suspect not. More likely I didn't use enough flame words to tick them off. Maybe when I get to the point about the declaration actually including the inherent right to self defense or the discussion on the actual 2nd Amendment, they'll come screaming. Then again, maybe I am just boring them into submission. LOL http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67358 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67358 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:42:12 -0600 Comment from Oldloadr on 2007-12-07 kat - I see no libs/GFWs have come out to debate your points. Maybe you did such a good job on your logic, history, etc, they feel hopeless... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67356 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/inherent_right_1.html#comment-67356 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 08:14:32 -0600