Comments for H&I Fires* 19 DEC 2007 We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html Sun, 03 Aug 2008 16:10:15 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification H&I Fires* 19 DEC 2007 Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite. You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place... Time to add a new caveat, because from email it's not clear to some folks (mind you, if you don't read this it won't matter...) Being an open post, people (collectively, the Denizens) other than I post in the H&I. They sign their work (most of the time) - keep that in mind when you want... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:41:41 -0600 Comment from lex on 2007-12-22 sic) freaking un-educated, un-American, pandering idiot. And he used you guys a (sic) sheep herder." Geez, I miss all the good educational opportunities.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67859 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67859 Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:23:06 -0600 Comment from Justthisguy on 2007-12-20 BCR knows that she can trust me to behave in accordance with her expert programming. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67805 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67805 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:56:15 -0600 Comment from J.M. Heinrichs on 2007-12-20 Cliff You'd have to pass the basic entry test; and I don't think the recruiters could adjust your score low enough. As your last comment would indicate. Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67801 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67801 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:15:57 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-20 BCR did it so she could be a graduate TA and pull the wings off of undergrads. She's like that sometimes... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67799 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67799 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:06:00 -0600 Comment from GeoSTI on 2007-12-20 John: I see where I errored. I think the logical discord between nazism and fascism is what caused me to bring up the law. I do think it is funny that someone being unable to distinguish between Nazism (see first post or so) and fascism would then begin to quibble semetics with the denizens, that and logic. HFS: Yeah, that discussion over at the Captain's does tie into this. Why I'm an engineer (with one semester left!) is just to dodge that quantum stuff. Don't know how you stand it BCR! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67784 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67784 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:47:13 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-20 Oh, I have *many* talents. Most of them are not printable HERE. ;~) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67776 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67776 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:18:23 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-20 Sashay - Now that's good! I would hate to think you were without talent! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67771 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67771 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:05:46 -0600 Comment from cliff on 2007-12-20 I was referring to the general responses. 3)If you would be kind enough to address the issues I actually raised when directing comments to me, I would appreciate it. No one ever accused physicist of being able to write. 4) Chicken Re: J.M Heinrichs: Helpme understand how my personal education]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67763 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67763 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:27:02 -0600 Comment from AFSister on 2007-12-20 *snerk* We'll be sure to set up a target, John. That way you'll know where to stay away from. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67759 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67759 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:53:30 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-20 Oh, and remind me to stay away from Dbie's house when Keith is in town. I don't want to be the victim of a random shooting while driving by and make Drudge in a man-bites-dog story... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67757 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67757 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:16:07 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-20 Geo - Godwin's Law is invokable only when someone brings in Hitler and/or labels people fascist in a manner inapt to the topic or thread. Since the book Cliff referred to in starting the thread is about... how liberalism in many facets is indistinguishable from fascism, Cliff's comments were apt to the thread and thus were not in violation. Besides - look what it turned in to? You really want me to shut threads down when we start having some fun? Of course not. This whole thread is within the Rulez. There were some bendy places, but all within prosecutorial discretion. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67756 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67756 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:04:53 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-20 GeoSTI ~ *whew* I was going crazy trying to figure out what I was missing! After the discussions (here and elsewhere) about quantum physics and such, it's entirely possible that I was missing something big. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67752 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67752 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:44:34 -0600 Comment from kat-missouri on 2007-12-20 Geesh...I missd all the fun. Cliff must have been bored today. One thing, though, he is like a bad wreck: guaranteed to draw out all the denizens to watch him bleed. LOL http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67750 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67750 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:32:58 -0600 Comment from MR T's Haircut on 2007-12-20 I am a denizen that has a whopping 5 "OFFICIAL" college credits to his name and they are all in subjects I like, Military History. Was too busy having fun during the years I had the energy. Now I simply lack the time. I don't mind, somehow I get by... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67749 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67749 Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:20:29 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-19 sashay...I can definitely sashay. Been doing that for a while.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67748 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67748 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:01:36 -0600 Comment from GeoSTI on 2007-12-19 HFS: Yes, I did. Thanks for the correction ma'am! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67747 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67747 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:53:26 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-19 Actually, Fuzzy flounces too and so does AFSis.....I'm pretty sure SWWBO does......BCR has the whole tail thing going...... Now that I think about it, are you sure you can't flounce? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67746 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67746 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:19:33 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-19 AFSister is ambi- something or is it omni- something? LOL HF6 - I flounce. Do ya want me to show you how? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67745 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67745 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:14:19 -0600 Comment from AFSister on 2007-12-19 Can I shoot AND have sex? Some people even do it at the same time. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67744 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67744 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:07:43 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-19 fine thankyouverymuch! (I'd *flounce* but I don't *flounce*.)]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67743 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67743 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:01:44 -0600 Comment from FbL on 2007-12-19 Great story about SB, Maggie! You gotta tell that over at Lex's place. They'd love it, I'm sure. :) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67742 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67742 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:56:32 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-19 with his own kind." I almost sprayed the computer with tea! You people think I'm parochial! His SEA slipped the Sailor a uniform, the kid dressed, thanked the Doc and stepped behind his CO. The FNC shook the Doc's hand and told him to stop by for a ride in one of the boats sometime. Off they went. Oh he's got a BS and he's this/close to a Masters. BCR - We'll get Lex to spot you a SEAL, but I prefer those small boat guys....the brown water sailors....the ones that roll and clank. But you have to cough up that pic.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67741 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67741 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:32:55 -0600 Comment from bad cat robot on 2007-12-19 Maggie--you SWORE you were too drunk to remember. I should have remembered you have a cast-iron liver. Good thing I wore the mask for that photo. Beth--absolutely! Especially if there are mojitos. mmm. While we're ordering, can I request a SEAL or two? Maggie would positively enjoy blackmailing Lex for that, I'm sure. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67740 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67740 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:10:28 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-19 Godwin per chance? If so, we're only at 39 comments and the night is still young. Here, at least. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67738 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67738 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:14:38 -0600 Comment from GeoSTI on 2007-12-19 I'm just surprised we let this thread go on. Goodwin's law could be invoked. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67737 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67737 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:48:05 -0600 Comment from Barb on 2007-12-19 Fuzzy - Maggie didn't confuse me. In fact, you were the first person I thought of when I read that story. Not that I wished any ill to you, of course, but the phrase Tiger Cruise did pop to mind. heh. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67736 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67736 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:34:18 -0600 Comment from FbL on 2007-12-19 good thing... ;) I think she was referencing my comment to this post]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67735 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67735 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:28:01 -0600 Comment from Barb on 2007-12-19 Fuzzy - Maggie didn't confuse me. In fact, you were the first person I thought of when I read that story. Not that I wished any ill to you, of course, but the phrase Tiger Cruise did pop to mind. heh. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67734 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67734 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:21:57 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Um, HFS, surely you don't mean *here*!?! Maggie - everybody who visits the Castle... shoots. It's a requirement. That, or sex. Sex, or bullets. No one visits free. Oh - and SWWBO has *input* as to how that goes... so, everybody shoots. Well, at least so far as female visitors go. All male visitors to date have sent rounds downrange too, thinking on it. I don't get a vote there, either. Just sayin'. Unless yer stayin' in the barn. Then you get to feed the birds. Seed, not, um, yerself or anything. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67732 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67732 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:18:43 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-19 Maggie ~ dealing with some of the knuckleheads that one must deal with when reading certain blogs leaves me with a desire for more than just a mojito. I'll take a Beam and Coke, thankyouverymuch. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67730 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67730 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:11:46 -0600 Comment from FbL on 2007-12-19 *LMAO @ Maggie!* You know, you totally confused everyone with the REAGAN comment (I see you hang out at Lex's much more than you comment there). :D http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67729 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67729 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:03:12 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-19 HF6 - Hell yes you can hang with me!!! Although I don't know how JimB is gonna feel about the whole mint-chopping-mortar-and-pestle Mojito thing. Beth - I am going to come visit. But I am not shooting anything....or petting anything....unless some Sailors show up. JimB - Thank you, baby! FbL- What? Is this part of a covert plan? Do you think Cliff can be so aggravating that he'll cause your appendix to spontaneously erupt and they'll send a helo out from the Reagan to scoop you up? BCR - Why don't you post that pic? You know the leather one with the tail...then no one will be confused about gender. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67728 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67728 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:53:44 -0600 Comment from jim b on 2007-12-19 "I'm just gonna head over to the bar and see if JimB with hook me up with some Cape Coddahs. Or maybe just head back to my place......it's awash with Navy men since the Reagan thing." Well hell yes Maggie ... welcome to the rulz detox center .... drinks on me. Happy Holidays. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67727 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67727 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:14:05 -0600 Comment from Beth Donovan (SWWBO) on 2007-12-19 Cliff - you have an AWFUL lot of time on your hands! Maggie - we have got to get together and have drinks/dinner/drinks again - you are so much fun! Bad Cat Robot - Ditto the note to Maggie. Armorer - I never attended a public institution of anything! All that Catlick/Jesuit education ... kindergarten thru college, don't ya know - Oh, and Flea - I was edumacated by Sacred Heart Nuns in St. Louis, and I spell like a Canadian, too! John laffs at me all the time! That's why I spell lik a LOLCAT now! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67726 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67726 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:12:38 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 1. Cliff - do choose your targets more carefully. You are going to get hoist on your own petard more often than not if you insist on using your normal "what is a conservative" target template around here. 2. CAPT H - heh. I'm guessing Cliff would have had real trouble with NCTAC. Much less the intricacies of assembly. And the NCOs who taught the courses would have had great fun. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67720 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67720 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:16:04 -0600 Comment from FbL on 2007-12-19 You know, I believe ignoring Cliff was a mistake. He's much more amusing when engaged. :D This is shaping up to be a fun thread... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67719 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67719 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:13:45 -0600 Comment from J.M. Heinrichs on 2007-12-19 1. I support Dr Robot because she is smart AND she knows things. 2. Re-perusing Cliff's main statement, I am unable to confirm whether Cliff identifies himself as one of the 'educated', or is he observing via exterior instrumentation. 2. Is Cliff a failed gunner? Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67718 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67718 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:51:53 -0600 Comment from bad cat robot on 2007-12-19 1)The correct title of address in my case would be "Ms.", or "Dr."(especially useful in cases of non-specified gender, such as this) 2)If you would be kind enough to indicate where I have attacked the messenger in this comment thread, I would appreciate it. 3)If you would be kind enough to address the issues I actually raised when directing comments to me, I would appreciate it. 4)As a solid-state experimentalist cosmology is not a focus of mine. Dr. Einstein had some phenomenal insights (e.g. the basis of the photelectric effect) but he remained deeply skeptical of quantum mechanics--which has been established science for quite some time now, so he didn't always get it right. And as with the wave-particle duality he viewed with skepticism, perhaps space is both void and energy? Questions like that frequently depend on other parameters such as scale, speed, energy, or environment for accurate answers(relativistic effects, for example, usually only become significant at relativistic speeds--below that they become lost in signal noise) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67717 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67717 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:36:05 -0600 Comment from cliff on 2007-12-19 Attack the messenger. How predictable. So, bad cat robot (a.k.a. Mr. Physics) do you believe space is a void as Einstein theorized, or is space energy? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67715 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67715 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:17:06 -0600 Comment from HomefrontSix on 2007-12-19 Maggie ~ I'm with you. I have nothing to contribute to this conversation that is not in violation of the Rulez. Therefore, me and my BS in Kinesiology will simply ask if it is ok to join you at the bar. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67714 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67714 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:52:17 -0600 Comment from Flea on 2007-12-19 The same false logic applies when someone says, "I talk to soldiers in theatre and returning who say we are making progress in Iraq, therefore, we are making progress in Iraq." Cliff was educated in Vermont but he spells like a Canadian. Coincidence? Flea - BA Hons, MA, and PhD "ABD" - still working on that last one.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67711 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67711 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:17:03 -0600 Comment from bad cat robot on 2007-12-19 Fortunately due to Quantum Entanglement the parallel universe populated by the *liberal* BCR creates a quark-pairing with extra tachyons that *exactly cancels out* the effect on the electrons caused by the presence of the Ronald Reagan shrine in my lab. At least, that's what they tell me. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67710 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67710 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:13:01 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 But BCR, doesn't the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle imply the electron might well care about your leanings... if only in choosing which way to allow the mere fact of your observation to help it decide how to allow your observation of it to change it? Or is Cliff just Schrodinger's Cat? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67709 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67709 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:01:04 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-19 Thanks for thinking of the well being of my everlasting soul.....but it's kind of not even a wash for me. When I see that Cliff is here, I have thoughts that lose me TONS of points. Following the Rulez doesn't come close to making up those losses. I'm just gonna head over to the bar and see if JimB with hook me up with some Cape Coddahs. Or maybe just head back to my place......it's awash with Navy men since the Reagan thing. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67707 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67707 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:54:18 -0600 Comment from bad cat robot on 2007-12-19 Scientifically sound/legitimate evaluation of evidence, however, requires that we discount if not abandon, subjective observation (personal experience, observation) in favor of serious survey data (as determined by method) Exactly backwards. Scientifically rigorous investigations require personal observation and experience. That is, reputable researchers->reproducible data=science. If you throw out the data, you only have speculation which is, of necessity, colored by the speculator's biases. An electron does not care about my political leanings, and my observation of its behavior, measured and reported, is the most important component of a scientific communication. Besides, electrons hate surveys and never pick up the phone if caller ID doesn't show someone they know. (note for the humor-impaired: last sentence is Not Serious.) Concerning social "science", I affirm that research that deals with the behavior of humans cannot be reproduced in laboratory conditions, due to ethical considerations, a vast plethora of laws and the extremely complex nature of human thought and interaction. Ergo, I do not consider anything that relies on "surveys" to be "science". Your mileage may vary.
rigorous academic exploration by educated people produces consistently more liberal ideas and solutions.
The evidence supports only the proliferation of "more liberal ideas". Actual, working solutions are scarce. The hard sciences (not dependent on surveys) such as medicine, biology, physics, and chemistry, *do* provide solutions. (BS Physics, PhD Physics, both from public universities, and I'm conservative.)]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67706 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67706 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:52:52 -0600 Comment from sandman6actual on 2007-12-19 Wow.....too many big words for this Marine. Wanted to say there's rounds coming down range for ya, John, in re: the M4 (*amongst other topics*). Yeah, I know, it's been a while. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67703 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67703 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:38:31 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Well, look at it this way, Maggie - if he's here, he's not bothering someone else, so we're engaged in a net societal good? Time off from Purgatory for you! For some of us, double time off because of the pressure caused by having to follow the Rulez is harder on some of us than others. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67702 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67702 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:38:15 -0600 Comment from Maggie on 2007-12-19 Pssstttt! I thought we were ignoring Cliff? Maggie (no degree, just the proud beneficiary of 12 years of Catholic schooling) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67701 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67701 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:30:23 -0600 Comment from J.M. Heinrichs on 2007-12-19 Logistics Branch 2. Does Cliff suffer from a deficient education; perhaps he just wants to be a grade-school teacher. 3. He left out the "Not all educated persons are intelligent" portion of his argument. Cheers]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67700 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67700 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:26:43 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Actually Cliff, we just didn't understand your point. I'll take the blame. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67699 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67699 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:49:32 -0600 Comment from cliff on 2007-12-19 ...that education tends to produce more educated people and that more educated people are better prepared to analyze the world, and that rigorous academic exploration by educated people produces consistently more liberal ideas and solutions. For those of you still not following: John is educated. John is conservative. Does not equal: All educated people are conservative What it does mean is that John is educated and John is conservative. Thats all. Nothing more and nothing less. The same false logic applies when someone says, "I talk to soldiers in theatre and returning who say we are making progress in Iraq, therefore, we are making progress in Iraq." Class dismissed!]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67698 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67698 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:41:49 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 unless you just came here to stir things up, pretty much sums up Cliff's effect, regardless of his intent. Oh, and Cliff, Big Sis has her Master's, too. In the oh-so-conservative field of Psychology. Just sayin' Interestingly enough, she's done a lot of work in pain management, which might be why she jumped on this thread! 8^ D]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67697 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67697 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:39:11 -0600 Comment from kathy on 2007-12-19 was the king of the run-on sentence. Higher education should teach people to be critical thinkers. True analysis of anything requires the suspension of bias (neutrality) and the ability to consider all aspects of a situation or idea. Otherwise, the analyst sees only what they wish to see and may come to an erroneous conclusion. Formal education is also augmented by life experience that informs one's world view. Have you read the book? If so, please justify your comments. I can't understand from your postings what your beef is about unless you just came here to stir things up. If you haven't read it, how can you form an opinion?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67696 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67696 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:28:41 -0600 Comment from Oldloadr on 2007-12-19 Hmmm, could it be that liberal department heads tend to hire liberal professors? In case you're keeping score, Cliffy, I have 2 AS degrees, 1 BS and 1 MS. I work for an institution of higher learning in which only one member of my department (out 8) claims to being liberal (though only slightly as he is a 2A fan). You know, when I was young I was sure all people could be easily pigeonholed. It is part of the maturing process to realize that you may not be right all the time and that just because an expert said it, doesn’t make it so. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67695 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67695 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:24:39 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Fuzzy - you're right, one of our deeper thinkers has managed to learn how to do it all on her own, without needing a shepherd. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67694 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67694 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:09:09 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Cliff - what *are* you talking about? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67693 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67693 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:06:31 -0600 Comment from FbL on 2007-12-19 John, I don't know of a single official Denizen who doesn't have (or is currently working on) a college degree--and as far as I know, almost all from public institutions. Although now that I think about it, one of the deeper thinkers around here may be self-taught (not sure). [UPDATE: D'oh! There is ONE who doesn't have a degree--Godzilla.] http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67691 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67691 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:31:37 -0600 Comment from cliff on 2007-12-19 John, As an educated man, surely you know that such logic is corrupt at best. How on earth does one man's example extrapolate to any defensible conclusion whatsoever? Hmmm? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67690 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67690 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:22:58 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Um, Gee, I dunno Cliff. Since I've got both a BA and MS, how's that square with your thesis? Apparently the higher education system does, indeed, suck. So, whatcha gonna do about it? Oddly enough, my son and his girlfriend have managed to maintain a pretty conservative outlook (though they certainly don't parrot mine) and are currently enrolled in a secular institution of higher learning. And his best friend just graduated, with good, solid, conservative leanings and a BA in English, from a different secular institution of higher learning. And, lastly, just where have you seen me beating drums to revamp the colleges? Just because I style myself "Jonah's Mililtary Guy" doesn't mean I'm Jonah's Butt Boy. I don't know about you, but I can actually hang around people who don't think like me, and don't agree on everything the people I hang out with think. And I've actually got... friends and acquaintances who... *gasp* teach at institutions of higher learning. And I've been invited to do a panel with journalism students at a *gasp* institute of higher learning... You read an awful lot into a tagline, boyo. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67689 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67689 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:13:31 -0600 Comment from cliff on 2007-12-19 Dear John, If our American universities are truly bastions of Nazism, perhaps you would like to banish them. And perhaps you have a better idea for how YOUR preference for a higher education system can maintain our preeminence across the globe? A reasonable observer cannot escape the obvious consideration that education tends to produce more educated people and that more educated people are better prepared to analyze the world, and that rigorous academic exploration by educated people produces consistently more liberal ideas and solutions. If this simple logic is too difficult to digest, let me know, I'll be happy to try to clarify. Otherwise, I can hardly wait to hear your reasoning for how quality education could somehow produce more people who think like you. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67688 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67688 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:03:37 -0600 Comment from John of Argghhh! on 2007-12-19 Tom Wolfe liked it. Yglesias didn't. What.a.surprise.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67687 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67687 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:51:44 -0600 Comment from FbL on 2007-12-19 Oooh! Cliff showed up to shine the light of truth on all us Goldberg Worshippers! Happy day of freedom and enlightenment!! *heads off to nearest university to fill newly-freed mind* http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67686 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67686 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:47:18 -0600 Comment from cliff on 2007-12-19 Turns out, Jonah Goldberg is not a journalist. He a freaking un-educated, un-American, pandering idiot. And he used you guys a sheep herder. You want to defend his new book? I dare ya. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67685 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/12/hi_fires_19_dec.html#comment-67685 Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:31:22 -0600