We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2010 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:39:56 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2010 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification UPDATE: Liberals Step Up! Though very pro-military by definition, Valour-IT prides itself in being non-partisan at a time when the military is being pulled in partisan directions. If you think "we shouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan, it's Bush's fault they're wounded, and besides, the government should be taking care of the wounded (that's what taxes are for)," we won't argue with you. We might even cheer that third point. We simply have a question: What are you going to do about it? They are wounded today, and nothing we do is going to change that reality. But we can... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:53:09 -0600 Cliff – 1. I understand your ideology and your obvious hatred for the current president. However, you claim to be a linguist but you are not making much sense, in that your answers don't match what I said. Plus you still won't admit that you exaggerated on your initial statement that all Iraqis (outside the gov’t) want us out. Instead you go on a tangent about the ones who don't want us out are irrelevant. 2. I never said that any Americans I worked with knew more than a smattering of Arabic. I said that most Iraqis I met (not all, but most) had a conversational knowledge of English. Once again, you read what you wanted to see instead of what was there. 3. So basically, Cliff, first you called me a liar and then, when I wouldn’t back down and drink your cool-aid you said my position was irrelevant. Why wasn’t it irrelevant when you were calling me a liar. I mean, if you think someone’s position doesn’t matter why insult them over it. BTW, I never said what my views were on the war; either the beginning or the current situation; I merely challenged your assertions. Anyway, you still never answered any of my questions even though I have answered yours… another symptom of liberalism. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66281 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66281 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:27:07 -0600 "everybody at this blog has at least a functioning in public knowledge of at least one language other than English" Thats wonderful. Spanish, French, German, Russian etc are all easy. Our military personal in Iraq are completely dependent on translators with the few exceptions of people for whom Arabic is their first language. I would suggest you get real honest with yourself and admit that there is not one American soldier over there or here who has speaks Arabic on a conversational level who didn't start learning Arabic long before the war. You know it, I know it and its a serious problem. So since you admit that a majority of Iraqis want us out, ("My point isn’t the majority of Iraqis want us to stay,") why does it matter that a few people came to you with tears in their eyes. Is that a good enough reason to continue the disaster that is our occupation of Iraq? Or should we stay, against all public opinion here and there, because a minority of troops and contractors want to stay? I thought our fellas were fighting for American principles like democracy. Any argument for staying violates that principle period. That congressman got it right, Bush is sending our boys to get their heads blown off for personal and political reasons. Any other argument is one for imperialism for oil. Please understand Mr. Oldloadr, while I respect your personal opinion, I'm not interested in it. What you think doesn't matter, and unfortunately, what a few tearful Iraqis think doesn't matter either (I'm sorry Bush and his supporters screwed them). Even IF we are all wrong, the things that matter are what the majority of the American people, the International community, and the Iraqi people want. If ya'll feel real bad about what we did to the Iraqis, you, and Bush and his rich contractor buddies can all go back and spend as much of your personal money as you want to help the Iraqis (which you/they won't), but as far as the American taxpayers, and the International community goes, its over and done. No more support, and no more money (as soon as we dump a few more democrats.) ...GET OUT NOW! Can you understand that?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66279 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66279 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 13:12:41 -0600 Cliff - First off, I’m sorry to hear about your learning disability, since you think it takes ten years for people to learn to communicate in a second language on a conversational level. BTW, you came to the wrong place to make that erroneous assertion since just about everybody at this blog has at least a functioning in public knowledge of at least one language other than English and none of us took ten years to get to where we could carry on a conversation. Incidentally, your example of Americans talking to Arabs at a normal speed and assuming they understood is irreverent since my point was about me understanding them. I don’t need a linguistic expert to tell me what a person really means when they come up to you with tears in their eyes and say, “Thank you.” What do you think that means, Cliff? On your cultural issue, I have worked in the ME off and on since the Iranian hostage crisis, so I maybe I won’t be writing any dissertations on Arab culture, but I get by just fine. Anyway, you said that only the Iraqi gov’t wants us to stay and I told you that I met dozens of Iraqis who had nothing to do with the gov’t that wanted the US to stay. You can call me a liar if you want, but you can’t change what I heard with my ears and saw with my eyes. Speaking of which, don’t you think it’s a little hypocritical to take umbrage with me for calling you a name after your diatribe against Michelle Malkin above? 2. It amazes me how lefties are so good at assuming things that fit their paradigm; e.g. the “narrow capacity I worked in.” What would be a broad enough capacity for you? Do I need to be an “expert” like you to know what somebody is saying to me? I dealt with Iraqis from Mosul to Basra. I know that the insurgents weren’t lining up to work for the US Army, but still, you said all Iraqis except the gov’t want us out and I know that that is not true, period. My point isn’t the majority of Iraqis want us to stay, only that you had made an absolute statement that was totally wrong. That of course makes everything else you say suspect (I know it doesn’t to the Left ala Bill & Monica) but it does to the rest of us. 3. Now your rant about President Bush has nothing to do with the points in discussion so I don’t see a need to answer them, especially since you never answered any of the questions I asked you. 4. What I see from you, Cliff is the typical leftie mind set; i.e. if the facts don’t fit my ideology, I’ll ignore the facts. If the facts won’t go way, I’ll just stick my fingers in my ears and yell, “Liar, liar pants on fire!” over and over until everyone quits listening to the messenger bringing the hated facts. 5. One final point, most Iraqis are required to take English in school. Did you know that, Mr. Linguist? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66277 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66277 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 11:40:28 -0600 entire poem that Cliff quotes above.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66273 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66273 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:17:41 -0600 no idea what you're talking about.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66270 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66270 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 10:08:05 -0600 Here is the clavicle-snapped wish, the aorta's opened valves, the leap thought makes at the synaptic gap. Here is the adrenaline rush you crave, that inexorable flight, that insane puncture into heat and blood. And I dare you to finish what you've started...because here, Bullet, here is where the world ends, every time. Brian Turner -infantry team leader with the 2nd Infantry Division,]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66267 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66267 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:58:41 -0600 More than six in 10 called the war not worth fighting, ...And thats without most of the country knowing half of whats really going on. Wait until they find out about the massive corruption, failed re-construction, wasted money, contractor fraud and that the current Iraqi government is a puppet regime. Nothing like a bad president to set our military back for another 10 years.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66265 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66265 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:55:50 -0600 We know we got a problem when the last holdouts are playing dungeons and dragons and you gotta pay recruits $20k just to sign up for Knave training. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66261 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66261 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:24:06 -0600 "Don't you have creatures in the Dungeon for just this sort of thing?" Yeah, he does. But we're on strike. We want fresher cheetos. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66260 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66260 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:07:21 -0600 Oldloader, You said, "They all were glad we were there since they weren’t too fond of the previous regime" I would suggest they were glad to be there because its a job. I may be wrong, but I don't see the connection to Saddam being gone. That was years ago and THAT honeymoon is over. But all in all, it sounds like your contact with Iraqis was very narrow. You say, “The Iraqis are not dumb, so the working class picked up English very quickly so I had one-on-one conversations with them by the time I left.” I happen to be a linguist and as such, must inject a little reality here. Arabic is a Semitic language and English is Indo European. It takes a good ten years at LEAST for an American to learn Arabic or visa versa. So to say they “picked up English very quickly” is simply impossible. You can appreciate this by looking at the reverse situation. Just think about any American you might know who has been in theatre for years. Does anyone “pick up” Arabic “very quickly?” No, of course not. Then of course you have the cultural issue. As anyone who has lived abroad knows, it takes years before a foreign national will “let you in” so to say, or speak with you frankly, and only then, in THEIR language, not yours. I’ve noticed from the videos that Americans speak to Iraqi at full speed in full vernacular and seem to assume they understand. They don’t, and you know it. So this idea I hear a lot that because you were there, in some narrow capacity, living, eating, breathing with Americans in a very unequal capacity with foreign nationals desperate for a paying job, you are somehow better qualified to assess the situation, is just a fraud. A complete fraud, and anyone who is honest with themselves knows it. So you should stop letting yourself believe that and start to look toward what experts are saying. Both Iraqi nationals and exiles, as well as non-Iraqi historians, analysts, and foreign service professionals are far better in tuned to how the Iraqis feel and think. You belong to a small (and getting smaller) group will use any shred of evidence however erroneous to validate your opinion instead of looking objectively at all the evidence. Christ, just look at the polls of Iraqi citizens. They want us out now. Even John Donovan knows this. You can call me names all you want, but it won’t change reality. Not only was the invasion a huge mistake, the occupation is an even bigger mistake, and as ALL the experts say, there is no way for us to fix it. We lost that chance. So you can call it what you want – defeat, surrender, or bowing out with our hats in our hands – we blew it in Iraq. Bush and the Republicans blew it, and only the Iraqis can fix it AFTER we leave. Will they get help from Iran and Syria? Yes, and we must live with that. Sorry for the reality check. John would tell you them same, but he chooses not to deal with the repercussions from his good friends. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66257 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66257 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 08:57:34 -0600 If i throw a few slogans on my page can I get $50 out of her too? Let's try, Trias. But based on what you've got on your blog, I'm not sure we'll be able to convince her you're a liberal and not a moderate. ;)]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66254 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66254 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 07:10:02 -0600 Careful, Trias - Maggie likes feel-feel. She might be tempted to corrupt your innner nature. As for me, smug self-satisfaction is the order of the day. Duped Navy! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66243 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66243 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:29:44 -0600 Terrible washout Maggie feel feel just awful about it :-| http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66241 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66241 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:21:00 -0600 But Trias, the money went to the Army team.....and I'm on the Navy team. Do you feel my pain? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66238 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66238 Mon, 05 Nov 2007 00:03:47 -0600 Good morning, Trias! We did at least generate some commentary and heat today. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66234 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66234 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 23:26:42 -0600 My! Look at all those words laced with negativity. Did you know Cliff, Oldloadr and others that you can't convince anyone to your point of view that way. Well ValourIT gets $550, no matter how ugly out of it assuming Malkin makes good on her promise. That's one whole laptop and a bit i think. If i throw a few slogans on my page can I get $50 out of her too? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66233 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66233 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 23:23:17 -0600 *That* would be the message then, wouldn't it? "...For all the good they do, they might as well be-e-e-e Shovelling..." If you've been there, you've sung that. Although, I'll admit it's kinda hard to get places like Gillygillyhassenpfefferkatzenellenbogen-By-The-Sea to scan properly...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66232 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66232 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 23:20:12 -0600 *That* would be the message then, wouldn't it? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66230 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66230 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:45:05 -0600 Depends on what the shovel is shoveling, John. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66229 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66229 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:41:39 -0600 No, you simply need to discuss spade employment, design, and cost, etc. Not just mock it for not being a shovel. ☺ http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66228 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66228 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:37:29 -0600 AFSis - since we have both been duly chastised for our passion (albeit with the lack of the decorum that the Castle requires) we must both find more subtle ways to call a spade a spade and not an agricultural instrument... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66227 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66227 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:19:39 -0600 OK, well lemonade is still better than "The Coolade" Although the Sangria is better than both... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66226 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66226 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:12:11 -0600 Ja, ich versteht. But Rulez only enforced by exception... aren't Rulez. We have enough of that, bi-partisan, in our politics. I've already been called a hypocrite once today, after all. I still lurves you both. AFSis was a clear violation, yours perhaps a lesser, but the trend was Not Good. When your passion pushes you to the edge... well, it's time to step back and take a sip of your lemonade. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66224 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66224 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 22:03:15 -0600 OK John, I hear you, and I support your rulez (since I posed it as a maybe; I didn't think I was in violation). I just get tired of lefties throwing verbal bombs, but never staying around to answer the hard questions or accept that they may have assumed something that is incorrect... Verstehen? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66223 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66223 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:59:02 -0600 I was wondering if you'd let that stand. Oldloadr- I used a one-word sentence to complete my comment, which went along with the string. But, a well-placed punctuation changes context of things sometimes. that being said... I'll take the yellow flag, but I'm not apologizing. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66221 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66221 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:54:07 -0600 Yellow flag, Rulez Warning. Message. Not Messenger. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66219 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66219 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:17:21 -0600 I see Cliff hasn't come back for a while. Hmmmm. [Deleted - see comment below] http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66218 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66218 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:11:33 -0600 If a foreign army were occupying MY country, I'd say anyone who DOESN'T pick up an AK is a dick. So what would you have us do when foreigners declare war on the US, and attack us by flying planes into our buildings, killing thousands? I'd say that we picked up our M-16's and went to war, since we don't carry AK's. [Deleted]]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66217 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66217 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:08:05 -0600 If a foreign army were occupying MY country, I'd say anyone who DOESN'T pick up an AK is a dick. Would you include foreign occupiers not part of a uniformed service -- oh, say, like all the Saudis, Jordanians, Syrians, etc. -- who are camping out while they assemble VBIEDs to blow up Iraqi civilians in bazaars, or just members of the foreign army?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66211 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66211 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 19:50:32 -0600 BTW - Cliff - One of the Iraqis I talked to a lot was the foreman of our camp maintenance crew. He spent 7 years in Sadaam,s prison system for speaking his mind, but I guess that doesn't matter... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66208 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66208 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:48:48 -0600 I believe that every American has the right to their opinion; however, our society has always valued the opinion of an eye-witness of one who only knows hear-say. meant to say "over" instead of "of"...]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66207 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66207 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:42:10 -0600 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66204 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66204 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:30:57 -0600 I pledge never to say "Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice" again. If I had a heart........I'd cross it. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66203 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66203 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:26:56 -0600 Oldloadr *sigh*, How can I respond to you? Your premise that somehow an American being in Iraq talking to Iraqis is the only way one can have an opinion on the subject? Do you speak Arabic? Who does one speak to in Iraq. Iraqis in the Green Zone? in the war zone? What makes you think you are not hearing what they want you to hear? Am I missing something, or is it not true Iraqis can get shot for talking to you? I'm still seeing interpreters and Iraqi police hiding their faces. What an "Ismalim republic"? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66202 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66202 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:05:38 -0600 John - I have to admire your tact and self-control (plus your perfect use of sarcasm). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66199 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66199 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:24:39 -0600 Oh for pity's sake, Cliff! That's your point? That's what you're going to hang your hat on? Don't give money to Valor-IT because two immature young men with a video camera did something their mothers would be ashamed of? This wasn't about Iraq. This wasn't about Bush. What in heaven's name is wrong with you? I wouldn't blame John for banishing me to the moat for causing this. FbL - Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. YOU WERE RIGHT. COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66196 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66196 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:46:11 -0600 Oh, there you go, Cliff! You found the smoking gun that obviates everything! I surrender. That one video clearly represents the sole authentic voice and behavior of the American Soldier. AMERICA OUT OF IRAQ NOW! I drink your Kool-Aid, Cliff. Thanks for saving me. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66195 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66195 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:29:56 -0600 Cliff - So I take it you are not interested in meaningful dialogue... That's a shame, but pretty much what I expected. Can I ask you another question? Would it bother you if the USA became an Ismalim republic? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66194 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66194 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:28:35 -0600 F&*K Iraq? ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66193 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66193 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:23:54 -0600 Cliff, you take Sergeant Abram out of context. He actually allows for a lot of reasons. All of which are true. And part of my working with Representative Boyda is working to make the Administration support the troops. But don't lay this solely at the feet of the Bush Administration. I'm from a family of myrmidons, going back to WWI on my father's side, and the French and Indian War on my mother's side. We have a looooooooooooong history of know just how virtually no administration follows through on VA-style rhetoric, with the exception of the post-WWII GI Bill, which was as much about giving demobbed soldiers something to do to keep them from causing mischief while the economy shifted back to a peacetime footing as it did doing something for the vets themselves. I'm *doing* something, Cliff. Working within and without the system to effect change. Like I said - find me a charity not as overtly political as VoteVets and I'll drop $250 on it. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66192 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66192 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:23:39 -0600 Oh, Cliff (*sigh*) – I have to ask you: How much time have you spent in Iraq? How many average Iraqis have you talked to? If you have been paying attention to this blog, you know why I ask this question and why I feel I may ask this question. If you respond and are interested in meaningful dialogue instead of swapping left/right talking points, I’ll tell you what I know from personal experience… http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66191 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66191 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:21:59 -0600 idiot rubes when in fact they are not a never were. The idea that they need our help at this point is pure arrogance. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66190 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66190 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 16:10:04 -0600 *Princess Crabby sweeps in to the Jungle Room, looks around at the disarray.* *Calls over her shoulder to John on the way to the bar* "Is that your empty wallet on the table?" *She laces her fingers over her head and MMMMM long stretch* "Ahhh, I just got in from yoga class and I feel great. Did I tell you about my new body scrub? It smells like vanilla buttercream frosting. Do you think Sailors like that smell?" *Looks behind the bar* "Who's bartending? Who's going to clean this up? Don't you have creatures in the Dungeon for just this sort of thing?" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66189 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66189 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 15:47:07 -0600 John - I wouldn't have thrown in the tax deduction thing. After all I don't know any lefties that don't claim back all they can get, but you’re an Officer and a Gentleman I'm just a crusty old MSgt, so I'm sure that was a good point to make... Besides, I don't know enough lefties to establish a statistical trend. (LOL) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66188 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66188 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 15:39:24 -0600 Feh. Arguing with lefties is expensive. Thanks a lot, Princess Crabby! Though it did widen the gap between us and the Marines. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66185 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66185 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:40:33 -0600 Thank you for your donation! Payment Details Name: John Donovan Item: Soldiers' Angels Project Valour-IT - Army Team Amount: 250.00 Dear John, On behalf of Soldiers' Angels, I would like to thank you for your generous donation of 250.00. Your continued support is greatly appreciated for our Soldiers, Sailors, Airment, and Marines who are in harms way as they serve our country. The goal of Soldiers' Angels is to continually bring care and comfort to our Heroes in uniform who sacrifice so much for our freedom. Contributions such as yours are a critical part of our success. The above information should serve as a receipt in accordance with Internal Revenue Service regulations regarding charitable contributions, and should be kept with your income tax records. No goods or services were received for this donation. Thank you again for your wonderful support! With warmest regards, Patti Patton-Bader Founder Soldiers' Angels ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66184 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66184 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:35:53 -0600 Payment Details # Name: Clifford Lyon # Item: Soldiers' Angels Project Valour-IT - Army Team # Amount: 250.00 Dear Clifford, On behalf of Soldiers' Angels, I would like to thank you for your generous donation of 250.00. Your continued support is greatly appreciated for our Soldiers, Sailors, Airment, and Marines who are in harms way as they serve our country. The goal of Soldiers' Angels is to continually bring care and comfort to our Heroes in uniform who sacrifice so much for our freedom. Contributions such as yours are a critical part of our success. The above information should serve as a receipt in accordance with Internal Revenue Service regulations regarding charitable contributions, and should be kept with your income tax records. No goods or services were received for this donation. Thank you again for your wonderful support! With warmest regards, Patti Patton-Bader Founder Soldiers' Angels Soldiers' Angels, 1792 E. Washington Blvd, Pasadena, CA 91104 Soldiers' Angels is a nonprofit 501(c)(3) Organization Website: www.soldiersangels.org Voice Phone: 615-676-0239 Email: soldiersangels@gmail.com Tax Identification Number 20-0583415 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66181 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66181 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:17:20 -0600 “The hottest place in hell is reserved for those who in the a period of moral crises, maintain their neutrality” - Martin Luther King Are you neutral one the war? Based upon your fine blog, I would say no. This blog is as politically right-wing as they come. Lets call a spade a spade, shall we?]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66180 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66180 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:05:50 -0600 John - are you challenging me, offering an idea to Cliff... what? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66179 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66179 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:02:21 -0600 How about: FAMILY SUPPORT CELL Family Support Cell Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) Steele Barracks PO Box 10500, Station Forces Edmonton, AB T5J 4J5 Monday-Friday 0800-1630 Phone: (780) 973-4011, Extension 3040/3102/3106 E-Mail: familysupport@strathconas.ca Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66178 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66178 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:50:15 -0600 I Wanna Go Home, Karridine, has authorized me to give away 1,000 free copies of the song to our men and women in the military for personal use only. However, recipients of a free copy can let anybody listen to it if they want. Members of the military can put it on their i-pod, use it on their computer, or make one CD. You can find out how to get a free copy at 1,000 Free Copies. If you want a copy for review e-mail me. My e-mail address is on the sidebar. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66177 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66177 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:48:17 -0600 One more thing about whether or not "liberals" are blogging Valour-IT... [again, the challenge was to BLOG it, not necessarily donate to it] If she's getting "hundreds" of emails about liberal bloggers touting Valour-IT, it's not hard to prove it. Just do some creative Googling and go find them. Please. I'm absolutely serious, because it would mean at least another $500 for Valour-IT (not to mention the people in the comments who are issuing their own financial challenges). http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66176 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66176 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:44:01 -0600 Cliff - I'm not saying no, but I'm not saying yes - yet. I would ask you consider finding a cause less directly political than VoteVets if you can. PVIT isn't for or against the war, it's about the wounded. The war is a separate issue about which we can all argue 'til we're blue in the face... the wounded just want to get connected again - and the question of the war is moot in that aspect. Is there a similar organization (and it doesn't have to be military-themed) that you can offer up? I can see a point to a quid pro quo, I'm looking for something a little more politically neutral (leave aside the politics of those who support PVIT, focusing instead on the intent of PVIT). Just as pick something more neutral and I can ignore your politics on specific issues to unite on a common thread or theme. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66175 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66175 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:39:19 -0600 Contact info for Malkin (the tab is right there at the top of her page). As to commenting, I had to do some digging. Apparently it's impossible to register to comment at this time (frustrating for me because that's the quickest way to get her attention about her challenge and I've never commented there). I know that she used to not allow comments at all because of the racist bile that was heaped on her.]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66174 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66174 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:27:01 -0600 Hey John, What say we each split $500 donations between VoteVets and Valour IT? If we can end this war, our troops will stop losing so many limbs. Deal? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66173 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66173 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:26:07 -0600 Cliff, that was just rude, and sadly plays to stereotypes. You don't help your cause laying things like this around here. But then, I rather suspect you aren't really trying to help your cause, eh? Sigh. How about *I'll* match your donation. Up to $500. And I won't take the tax deduction, so it will be revenue-neutral. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66170 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66170 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 12:39:05 -0600 trackback on [deleted - insert "Malkin's" -the Armorer] site. Only one of three so far, which is pretty pitiful frankly. Maybe thats because the [elided] doesn't give us any transparent way of knowing how many e-mails she is actually getting. She also conveniently forgot to provide us an e-mail address to send such an e-mail. Lastly, I couldn't find a way to register on her blog so I can post my pledge and bona fides as a comment. Lets be honest. For all you know, Michelle [elided] has received hundreds of e-mails from liberal bloggers. Frankly, the whole thing is nothing more than more Malkin shrill sh&t. She could easily provide a transparent forum to back up her bogus claims, but she won't because she can't let you self-anointed hurray heroes see the truth. Get me a login for her site, and get back to me. Send it to cdl'at'oneutah.org Thanks ladies. ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66167 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66167 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:49:41 -0600 Ooooh. Excellent point! You should drop on his site and challenge him! http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66163 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66163 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:35:24 -0600 Gee John, Where's your nifty friend Cliff from OneUtah? He'd fit the bill. (I had to type *nifty* cause the Armorer won't let me say *asshat*) http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66162 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/11/valourit_a_mess.html#comment-66162 Sun, 04 Nov 2007 10:25:16 -0600