We're the Military and Airpower Guys of Jonah Goldberg of National Review Online + a stray we found wandering around looking lost. All original material JHD, BHD, JR, WT, and KA 2003-2007 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:49:29 Z Movable Type 4.12 en Copyright 2008 http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification Open post for those with something to share, updated through the day. New, complete posts come in below this one. Note: If trackbacking, please acknowledge this post in your post. That's only polite. You're advertising here, we should get an ad at your place... ********************************* Okay, here's a Whatziss? for ya... CAPT H might even play in this one. ******** As someone who has been in the nuke weapons business - the laxity in standards revealed in this story was literally stun-me-mute. Back in my day, mishandling a tool, as in passing it *over* a weapon vice *under* or around... http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:55:30 -0600 Turret appliqué armour as used on a Leopard C2. Cheers http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65774 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65774 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:18:28 -0600 Newton acknowledged that the Air Force needs to "restore the confidence" lost among the American people after the August incident, which raised questions about the safety of the country's nuclear arsenal. Didn't raise the question of safety of the country's nuclear arsenal in *my* mind (especially since I grew up knowing about with these incidents) -- the question I thought about was "How often did they almost load a nuke for a live-fire exercise?" ]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65765 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65765 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:56:56 -0600 And Richard perplexes us all until you realize his comment is intended for the post *above* this one... Then it's slightly less scary. Pirates and cannon, vice a pirate commenting thusly on nukes. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65764 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65764 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 04:48:37 -0600 SO IT IS THAT "I" THE DRUNK DUDE IS OFF THE ISO. I WILL JUST POINT ME WINKIE-PUFF-GROMET AT THE SIR ARGGHHH AND FAIR THEE MAIDEN PULL THE CORD BORED GRAPE-SHOT, NO QUARTER YE,NO QUARTER YE, FOR FUN YA.......TURKEY?....SIMO...IRAN? WHERE ARE THE SUBS?? http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65761 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65761 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:25:57 -0600 Jotm, I, too, am surpised that this entire event happened. The Navy uses Marines to secure their special weapons, and havinf been certified to load and deliver these, it is unimaginable how such a thing could occur. There is an awful lot I can forgive, but not this. This is absolutley unforgiveable, and I am happy to see so many heads rolling. This nation is at war. there is no excuse for such sloppy procedures. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65755 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65755 Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:46:07 -0600 I was once in a similar position. My ship had two capable systems and we were in a security alert drill. I had the quarterdeck watch, was cocked and locked and the Admiral waited on the brow. No trouble. In another incident the weapons officer came off the beach, three sheets to the wind, and decided to do a security drill. It is rather scary to see a bunch of drunks (they had just came back too) running around in their skivvies with 1911s. The officer wound up against a bulkhead with a .45 screwed into his ear. I'm sure the skipper explained why it is not a good idea to rattle a security control room door at 2:30 in the morning. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65749 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65749 Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:47:09 -0600 Exactly right about the AF. Moving to Congress, I'm reminded of the difference between Congress and the Boy and Girl Scouts; being the Scouts have adult supervision. It's long past time for someone to use the paddle my 5th grade teacher had on ALL the behinds of the members of Congress, and most have at least two. Walter M. Clark, SFC, USAR, Ret. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65748 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65748 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:09:58 -0600 I loaded or supervised the loading of nukes for most of my 24 years in the AF and I can't comprehend this much stupidity distilled down on one base. One base because all the screwing up occurred at Minot. It doesn’t surprise me that Barksdale personnel didn’t catch the mistake right away since they were told they had received conventional missiles; therefore no special security would have been required. I’m sure it was the Barksdale loaders who caught the screw-up when they went out to down-load the jet. The number of rules that would have to be violated and the number of airmen violating them in order to screw up on this magnitude is truly mind-boggling. When I first heard the news and that 4 officers had been relieved, I said there should be at least 20 more careers terminated and now I see the AF is looking at 70, which is probably a good number. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65744 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65744 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:15:51 -0600 Every one of the derelict flyboys/girls involved from tippy top down the to most junior should have their career isntantly and permanently ended. No excuses, no appeals, no leniency, no nothing but a big hammer. I'll sign up for that. That's how it was in my world. You get decertified as an officer, you'd seen your last promotion, and were simply a "Dead Man Walking..."]]> http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65743 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65743 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 17:05:56 -0600 I didn't get near nukes, but was in Strategic Air Command units twice in the 20 yr AF career and I too was flabbergasted that something like that happened. No way would that have occurred in SAC. Heads would roll, careers would end and any NCOs involved would be starting over again as E-1. http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65741 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65741 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:55:31 -0600 Every one of the derelict flyboys/girls involved from tippy top down the to most junior should have their career isntantly and permanently ended. No excuses, no appeals, no leniency, no nothing but a big hammer. Every single one had the obligation to do it right the first time, and to halt everything if they even thought there was something going on contrary to prescribed (in teeny tiny detail) practices. I am sure that there are always billets available with Army units in the sandbox needing IMA personnel assigned, and these clowns might learn somthing with boots on the ground in a hostile environment. Too many homesteaders in cushy jobs working 9 to 5 hours in the flyboy fraternity. "What would Curtis [Lemay] do?" http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65737 http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/2007/10/hi_fires_20_oct.html#comment-65737 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:05:23 -0600